Playing as an NPC

[Opto Mistique]

Sorry if this has come up before, I'm very new to this site. Let me just start out by saying that I roleplay Minfilia and have been wanting to have some fun storylines with other people on my server, who're pretty much a mixed big at the moment with some people rather interested and others who can't help but troll due to my character of choice. 

 

My current plan of action for setting a scene is having Minfilia take a break from her duties and travelling through Ul'dah. A friend of mine even made a Tataru so we could go "shopping" together through the bazaar. Generally though, a lot of the attitudes I get from people are actually more negative than positive, with some people refusing to acknowledge the idea that Minfilia is present due to spoilers later in the game.

 

If there are any other NPC roleplayers out there, have you encountered this before and how did you tackle the situation if so? The easiest solution would be to just ignore these people and move on but being on an EU server where finding other roleplayers is already quite challenging, I'd rather not give up on people unless I absolutely had to.

[Warren Castille]

I don't roleplay as an NPC but the conversation has come up a bit here before. It's a divisive topic (as you're already away) and I think I get some of the insight into it. Mix and match from the following as needed:

 

1) Most people doing it tend to shoehorn in their fan-canon personalities. Since only the official writing team knows how NPCs would react at various instances, the best any player can do is an educated guess at best. Some people do it pretty well, but there's also those who are just in it for the attention. Haurchefant got several people roleplaying him on Balmung, as did the Heaven's Ward.

 

2) The spoilers you referred to. Tataru and Minf doing some light shopping is impossible according to the lore.

 

3) Connections. NPCs come with a level of renown: Yours, for example, works with the most powerful adventurer on the planet and is respected by more-or-less every single important country leader that we know of. It's the political equivalent of Superman just throwing all of his problems into the sun. This has an odd extension when it comes to other players, though, since anyone who you would become friends with would technically have you to call upon should they have need.

 

This is pretty easily remedied by being unavailable or keeping these sorts of excursions limited to your group of friends; I'm speaking for the more broad archetypes where people are roleplaying in bars and pubs and actively LOOKING to make connections. These things are impossible to utilize while staying in the rough boundaries of the canon.

 

There's nothing wrong with using NPCs in your own stories, but if you're trying to mesh into open-world roleplay it can get tricky. What happens if someone else decides they want to play your character? Any connections you've made don't necessarily exist for that person, so it splinters any sort of coherency you've established.

[Opto Mistique]

I don't roleplay as an NPC but the conversation has come up a bit here before. It's a divisive topic (as you're already away) and I think I get some of the insight into it. Mix and match from the following as needed:

 

1) Most people doing it tend to shoehorn in their fan-canon personalities. Since only the official writing team knows how NPCs would react at various instances, the best any player can do is an educated guess at best. Some people do it pretty well, but there's also those who are just in it for the attention. Haurchefant got several people roleplaying him on Balmung, as did the Heaven's Ward.

 

2) The spoilers you referred to. Tataru and Minf doing some light shopping is impossible according to the lore.

 

3) Connections. NPCs come with a level of renown: Yours, for example, works with the most powerful adventurer on the planet and is respected by more-or-less every single important country leader that we know of. It's the political equivalent of Superman just throwing all of his problems into the sun. This has an odd extension when it comes to other players, though, since anyone who you would become friends with would technically have you to call upon should they have need.

 

This is pretty easily remedied by being unavailable or keeping these sorts of excursions limited to your group of friends; I'm speaking for the more broad archetypes where people are roleplaying in bars and pubs and actively LOOKING to make connections. These things are impossible to utilize while staying in the rough boundaries of the canon.

 

There's nothing wrong with using NPCs in your own stories, but if you're trying to mesh into open-world roleplay it can get tricky. What happens if someone else decides they want to play your character? Any connections you've made don't necessarily exist for that person, so it splinters any sort of coherency you've established.

 

I get what you're saying, but when it comes to timelines or characters being affected by plotpoints, couldn't we just attribute the entire situation to a case of willing suspension of disbelief? I'm not sure why some people take things to be so literal as that same kind of logic could be used elsewhere and become very restrictive. Saying that though, I come from a rather casual RP background so I might just be a bit more liberal?

 

EDIT: Wonderful points, by the way. Thank you very much for commenting.

[LiadansWhisper]

I get what you're saying, but when it comes to timelines or characters being affected by plotpoints, couldn't we just attribute the entire situation to a case of willing suspension of disbelief? I'm not sure why some people take things to be so literal as that same kind of logic could be used elsewhere and become very restrictive. Saying that though, I come from a rather casual RP background so I might just be a bit more liberal?

 

EDIT: Wonderful points, by the way. Thank you very much for commenting.

 

It's...

 

It breaks immersion so, so much to have someone RPing as an NPC. It's one thing if you were a person running the story, but expecting everyone else to play along with you is just kinda...

[Kilieit]

I think you're right, OP, in that it's a difference in what kind of community you're coming from?

 

I know the kind of environment you're talking about, if it's anything like the tumblr RP blog scene was when I partook - where it's about pursuing "what ifs" and throwing your character into all sorts of weird and wonderful situations to see how they react. In that kind of environment, RPing with a canon is an enjoyable exercise in what happens when an OC meets a famous person, or an idol, etc etc. There's a wide acceptance that different AU's/verses are a thing, so if you meet duplicates it's NBD. And it's acceptable to state that you're exclusive with one particular instance of the canon, too.

 

But the kind of situation most in-game RPers are in is one where they're roleplaying one character as part of a larger living world, with usually a fairly strict continuity - because communicating details of retcons across everyone who might possibly have seen the scene in question is usually a pain. They stick to "everything that happens, happens for real, and retcons/AUs are a special exception". In this kind of environment, encountering a canon in the open world is a huge "not even touching that", for all the reasons Warren described. There's no way to communicate the nature of different AU's to the entire audience unless the RP is held privately from start to finish, and there's no way to communicate if you're exclusive with an existing RPer for that canon short of whispering the one that just walked up to you and saying "sorry, no can do".

 

And because most people are RPing regular folk... RPing a canon, or being friends with one, comes with a certain level of political clout that just is not available to others. It has the potential to stray into power-emoting territory in some respects, which I think is why people are wary of it. It also has the potential to tie IC political power into who is and isn't friends with the canon RPer OOCly - who only has that clout because they picked a canon character to play... rather than establishing it the long way around, with genuinely building an IC reputation for themself.

 

I used to play canon characters on my RP blogs, and I have a few clones of canons on other servers, but... I kinda draw the line at RPing them in-game, especially walk-up style. It's just too at odds with the established culture, and with the type of clashes that can breed resentment.

[Warren Castille]

I get what you're saying, but when it comes to timelines or characters being affected by plotpoints, couldn't we just attribute the entire situation to a case of willing suspension of disbelief? I'm not sure why some people take things to be so literal as that same kind of logic could be used elsewhere and become very restrictive. Saying that though, I come from a rather casual RP background so I might just be a bit more liberal?

 

EDIT: Wonderful points, by the way. Thank you very much for commenting.

 

No worries, I get where you're coming from.

 

There's definitely a space for suspension of disbelief. That's sort of required on some level to roleplay in the first place, after all.

 

Hell, in a random one-off where the episode title is "Minfy and Tataru Shop for Shoes" there's no need to worry about any of the things I mentioned. One-offs aren't as-common on RP servers, though: Most of the people here have existed for weeks and months and years. Some of the people here have been roleplaying since the 1.0 release in 2010(!).

 

RP as a hobby brings people from all sorts of motivations and rationales. The biggest challenge is that as soon as you do something that incorporates random people is that all of those philosophies are thrown into a blender: The one-offs and the hard-lore people and the light-fun people all end up dropped into the same place. I wasn't trying to talk you into or out of anything, though! I just wanted to explain why some people are so resistant.

 

It's most-often a case of "You are too important to hang out with us, this would fuck up the Main Story if it happened and that's the law of the land" sort of things.

[Nodem]

You are indeed right as this has been brought up a few times in the past. Here's a link to at least two of the threads I know of off-hand.

 

Thread 1

Thread 2

 

As for RP'ing a canon character... It's not my favorite thing to say the least. Not that I haven't met three Hildibrand RP'ers, and at least one full set of the scions, and the Sultana herself walking about unguarded as if saying she was Sultana in public was... A wise thing?

 

Not my cup of tea, personally.

 

 

As for the 'spoilers' you mentioned prior. A lot of the RP'ers have been RP'ing since 2.0 (or back in 1.0) so the continuity of the story gets broken if suddenly, Minifilia appears. The moment you hit 3.0, what Minfilia? I'm sure you can see why people would avoid such a situation, especially when said character isn't about when they, themselves, are RP'ing HW content.

[Warren Castille]

It's not my favorite thing to say the least. Not that I haven't met three Hildibrand RP'ers, and at least one full set of the scions, and the Sultana herself walking about unguarded as if saying she was Sultana in public was... A wise thing?

 

 

"Anyone who kills their opponent will have their head removed from their shoulders and be dumped in the wash."

 

"They'll WHAT?"

 

I didn't mind the Sultana crashing the Grindstone, mostly because 1) Warren was one of the guards at the original Sultana Ball some years ago and 2) she didn't try to stop us.

 

You'd be surprised at how many times "I've got an army of waiting" has been invoked in roleplay.

 

Yooo, Grindstone plug in a random thread. I'VE STILL GOT IT.

[Opto Mistique]

I'll keep all of this in mind, then. Thank you for all your thoughts. For now, I think I'll just focus on my OC and see if I can root myself down somewhere.

[Aegir]

I think NPC RPers are cool~ It's fun to RP with them.

[SapphireSkylines]

I was running an event at a tavern I co own - the Lominsan Star. And the Sultana showed up. I thought it was fun, and she was under the guise of Lady Lilira. The disguise she has on during the Thanalan starter quests? So my character just played dumb and served her drinks. I think one guy was able to figure out who she was because he was a Sultansworn but otherwise she came in with everyone else not suspecting she was the Sultana. That was the only time I encountered a NPC roleplayer. 

 

I don't really care, I think you should RP what makes you happy and if my character gets approached by one, they'll just either play dumb or be in disbelief, depending on the situation.

[Tyndles]

I treat NPC role-play as one of two things:

 

1. They are just clowning around and joking, so I treat them like I would treat them a costumed star at Disney World. "Oh hey! Its Mickey Mouse! Let me shake your hand and get a picture." and my character goes on their merry way, laughing it off.

 

2. If they are trying to SERIOUSLY RP as that character? My character will treat them as someone delusional, touched in the head or drunk. Because thats the only way it would make sense.

[Aegir]

 

2.  If they are trying to SERIOUSLY RP as that character?  My character will treat them as someone delusional, touched in the head or drunk.  Because thats the only way it would make sense.

 

I keep seeing people post this in every thread this is brought up. I find this reaction to be mean spirited and contemptuous. And it doesn't seem to be in the spirit of role play. It's weird where people draw the line between "okay, I'll pretend your character is/has this, but if you say they are/have this I'm going to be derisive and try to make you feel bad.

[Gegenji]

I think, ultimately, one of the key aspects of roleplaying comes out stronger in this situation than any other - communication.

 

It's a vital key for any RP, but it seems all the more important when you're bringing in an existing character and trying to play as them. Think about it, even with your personal character, you usually want to make sure that whoever you're RPing with is okay with rolling with whatever you're putting down - whether it's that your character is a minor merchant, a noble of some note, or a master of black and white magic, to go down a "line" of suspension. If you look at it in the abstract, saying you're playing the Sultana or one of the Scions or what-have-you is kind of along that same premise.

 

The only issue is, I suppose, for generic walk-up RP... but even then there's a sort of similar connection. Many folks pick at and poke fun at the half-voidsent and the manifested primals and other odd character ideas that are apparently taking a break from whatever realm-shaking things they're doing to just sit in the Quicksand and have a beer. Seems kind of similar to how someone would react to the Sultana coming in for one as well, no? It's a matter of imposing something in a public setting that may be "forcing" you to accept something into your character's "canon" that you may not like or want. So you ignore it entirely or write it off as someone being a bit touched in the head.

 

Which is why it comes back to communication. Playing such an idea - whether it be some great demon or Minfilia - works better in an enclosed environment because you can ensure that all those participating are on board and willing to accept that concept. It's just harder to do that in open-world RP because there's just so many folks around - especially on Balmung - that the chance someone or someones is going to have an issue with it arises, and that they feel they're being "forced" to accept it because it's occurring right out in the open. And so ire arises.

 

Ultimately, and it's sort of the lackluster fallback statement of the RPC at this point, "you can play whatever you want, people just may not like it." So, if you're playing something you're not sure most people are going to jive with... I'd recommend just asking them first. And if you're doing a scene out in the open, maybe keep the RP in party chat so that those open-world RPers don't feel like they're being "forced" to accept the fact that the Sultana had a little bit too much to drink and needs someone to hold her hair back over the planter in the corner. That way you can have your RP, they can have their RP, and no one really feels like one's imposing on the other.

 

... Oddly enough, I suppose it's kinda like ERP. You know it's happening, but people don't seem to mind it too much because it's all being kept to party chat and tells.

[Virella]

 

2.  If they are trying to SERIOUSLY RP as that character?  My character will treat them as someone delusional, touched in the head or drunk.  Because thats the only way it would make sense.

 

I keep seeing people post this in every thread this is brought up. I find this reaction to be mean spirited and contemptuous. And it doesn't seem to be in the spirit of role play. It's weird where people draw the line between "okay, I'll pretend your character is/has this, but if you say they are/have this I'm going to be derisive and try to make you feel bad.

Welllll not to play devil's advocate here, but I assume people don't come in here just for praise and people, like myself for example, will avoid them at any cost, and we are forced to use that IC to still let it make sense.

 

Because I really don't want my characters to know (certain) NPCs, because it really shatters my immersion.

 

There's quite a bit of NPC roleplayers who shove their RP down your throat and start screaming if you don't accept it. Everyone's allowed to go 'no' on whatever type RP. Whether it is just casual tavern RP, super serious events, ERP, or RPing with NPCs; if people don't want to, they should be allowed to step out as well.

 

And really, I think that excuse of "its a drunkard/weirdo trying to re-enact x character' isn't really that bad. I don't even bother with it, unless they engaged me directly. I just u-turn, or ask them to leave.

 

 

 

[Flynn Bladebreaker]

I like to think some of our RP characters are NPCs that *could* exist in Hydaelyn's lore, sure. But RPing as an actual existing NPC is on the list of no-nos for me. It's almost breaking that line when you RP for NPCs like Momodi even. I get it, everyone's best friends with her.

 

Does it work? It sure can. Given this is an MMO though and often the community does come first, it wont work for the majority of the general public. Privately and not forced on others, by all means, go for it.

[Nodem]

 

2. If they are trying to SERIOUSLY RP as that character? My character will treat them as someone delusional, touched in the head or drunk. Because thats the only way it would make sense.

 

I keep seeing people post this in every thread this is brought up. I find this reaction to be mean spirited and contemptuous. And it doesn't seem to be in the spirit of role play. It's weird where people draw the line between "okay, I'll pretend your character is/has this, but if you say they are/have this I'm going to be derisive and try to make you feel bad.

Welllll not to play devil's advocate here, but I assume people don't come in here just for praise and people, like myself for example, will avoid them at any cost, and we are forced to use that IC to still let it make sense.

 

Because I really don't want my characters to know (certain) NPCs, because it really shatters my immersion.

 

There's quite a bit of NPC roleplayers who shove their RP down your throat and start screaming if you don't accept it. Everyone's allowed to go 'no' on whatever type RP. Whether it is just casual tavern RP, super serious events, ERP, or RPing with NPCs; if people don't want to, they should be allowed to step out as well.

 

And really, I think that excuse of "its a drunkard/weirdo trying to re-enact x character' isn't really that bad. I don't even bother with it, unless they engaged me directly. I just u-turn, or ask them to leave.

 

 

 

 

Same applies to all the voidsent and primals RP'ers... Why am I not allowed to murder them?! It's clearly stated that they must die and must be hunted! They're destroying Eorzea!

 

Calling them touched in the head, drunk, or acting as a mjor figure is your ONLY safe option in those regards as... I can't murder the voidsent and/or primal threats since the scions and THM guild are clearly slacking. It's rather a kindness considering Thancred might have slept with my character in my head cannon but in the Thancred RP'ers head cannon she doesn't exist. Yes, some people rp knowing the scions or other major figures as well.

 

The only other option is to not RP with people whom RP these kind of characters as Virella has stated.

 

In the end, it has nothing to do with your choice, but the other person's choice to accept your head cannon or not.

[Perth]

 

2.  If they are trying to SERIOUSLY RP as that character?  My character will treat them as someone delusional, touched in the head or drunk.  Because thats the only way it would make sense.

 

I keep seeing people post this in every thread this is brought up. I find this reaction to be mean spirited and contemptuous. And it doesn't seem to be in the spirit of role play. It's weird where people draw the line between "okay, I'll pretend your character is/has this, but if you say they are/have this I'm going to be derisive and try to make you feel bad.

 

I'm pretty sure anyone who does this is not trying to hurt anyone, but instead offer a diplomatic alternative to rolling over belly up and accepting that there's one more of five Sultanas running around Ul'dah. The problem with role-playing in public places NPCs is that there's also more than one copy. So if you were to say, "Weren't you just shopping here yesterday?" They'd quickly say "No, I wasn't!" Or something to that effect. There within lies one of the biggest problems with not role-playing original characters. Not everyone's on the same page, so insisting someone has to deal with sorting out "Oh I'm talking to Minfilia C today, that was Minfilia A yesterday" isn't very fair. At the end of the day, no one's obligated to roleplay with anyone, period. And that's a good thing, honestly.

[ExAtomos]

 

Same applies to all the voidsent and primals RP'ers... Why am I not allowed to murder them?! It's clearly stated that they must die and must be hunted! They're destroying Eorzea!

 

 

Damn, but I wish any voidsent character of mine would live in utter fear of entering cities (or be threatened and have to flee in case they were discovered.) That would be cool. I would totally roll one up if I got more rp threats than just blatant ooc eye rolls.

 

Back on topic...

 

Roleplaying as a major NPC really trips up when it comes to interacting with others due to people being at all points in the msq. Said NPC might be around, might be [spoilers], or may have [other spoilers]. You can't account for all of these, it's impossible. If someone further in the story line shouts out that said NPC can't possibly be there due to [spoileroo], they just ruined things for new players.

 

Now minor NPCs such as Yellow Moon, Fufulupa, or some other background character could be fun. Nothing major happens to them that could be considered a problem when it comes to interacting with others. (I know many of these exist on Balmung.)

[Aegir]

I guess I just don't see treating someone's character who is not drunk or insane as being drunk or insane because I don't like their character idea as diplomatic.

[Virella]

I guess I just don't see treating someone's character who is not drunk or insane as being drunk or insane because I don't like their character idea as diplomatic.

What do you suggest otherwise for people to do IC if they don't want to deal with people roleplaying NPCs? I think beyond flat out ignoring them, tell them to shove it OOC, there's very few legit IC options left to handle the situation beyond writing them off as insane.

 

There's little to win here if people are not consenting to their roleplay. In your opinion you're rude if you try to handle it IC by writing them off as insane/drunk. If you ignore them, you're rude according to some. If you play along with them while you don't want to, the player who's approached doesn't think it's enjoyable roleplay and just wishes it didn't happen. If you retcon, you're being mean in some people's eyes as well.

 

So what do you propose then? Because I really can't see any winners here if you don't want to roleplay with NPCs and they still insist onto RPing with/around you.

 

I think if people told them (politely) OOC that they are not interested, and they stay around despite that, you are in your full right to just ignore or write the character off as insane at that point. Consent is the main key here. If I'm not interested in RPing with x person because of x reason (including them RPing a NPC), that's my full right to do such, and those of others as well.

[Kazukata]

Most arguments that I could contribute have already been made. Personally, I'm conflicted on the issue, because on the one hand, I firmly believe in the improv comedy "yes, and..." rule, but on the other hand, there's a lot of baggage, much of it already being explored in this thread, to navigate.

 

One thing no one has mentioned is a gentler version of the "you must be crazy" method. You don't necessarily have to go so far as to call someone out as a raving lunatic. It's possible to just have your character openly disbelieve whoever's playing the NPC, thinking they're either a good impressionist or just stubbornly refusing to believe that they'd ever experience the equivalent of running into Johnny Depp at a coffee shop. If that's as far as you push it, you get a sort of Schrodinger's NPC situation. They could be the NPC, they could not. It doesn't matter either way, because you don't believe them. And on the other side, it doesn't matter whether you belief or not, because beliefs can contradict factual reality. This way, you dodge the uncomfortable "becoming besties with Minfilia" situation without directly contradicting their rp. Both players' "realities" can coexist long enough to get through one or two rp sessions, and after that, you just don't need to involve yourself in longterm rp with that player.

 

Of course, if players begin doing things like using their power to suddenly siccing an entire squad of soldiers on you or branding you a criminal, that starts approaching "sir, you're doing things to my character that I don't approve of, please stop" territory, and likely where I would start drawing a hard line, especially if it's walk-up rp with someone I'm not familiar with. Those are consequences that reach far farther than that one-off rp ever will, and the non-npc player is likely going to have to play them out on their own.

 

That said, if I ever saw a bleeding Primal walk into the Quicksand, I might take umbrage, as that goes so completely against established Primal behavior (not to mention raise serious questions abut the efficacy of Ul'dah's guards) that it becomes lore breaking.

[Gegenji]

That said, if I ever saw a bleeding Primal walk into the Quicksand, I might take umbrage, as that goes so completely against established Primal behavior (not to mention raise serious questions abut the efficacy of Ul'dah's guards) that it becomes lore breaking.

But what if it's Al'Kohawl, stout Primal of Beer and Spirits? Called by the patrons' desire for a cheap drink?

[Kazukata]

That said, if I ever saw a bleeding Primal walk into the Quicksand, I might take umbrage, as that goes so completely against established Primal behavior (not to mention raise serious questions abut the efficacy of Ul'dah's guards) that it becomes lore breaking.

But what if it's Al'Kohawl, stout Primal of Beer and Spirits? Called by the patrons' desire for a cheap drink?

 

Then I think we'd see the death squads roll in to quietly dispose of an entire bar of tempered patrons. Not a good look.

[Gegenji]

That said, if I ever saw a bleeding Primal walk into the Quicksand, I might take umbrage, as that goes so completely against established Primal behavior (not to mention raise serious questions abut the efficacy of Ul'dah's guards) that it becomes lore breaking.

But what if it's Al'Kohawl, stout Primal of Beer and Spirits? Called by the patrons' desire for a cheap drink?

 

Then I think we'd see the death squads roll in to quietly dispose of an entire bar of tempered patrons. Not a good look.

 

What if... what if Momodi is the Primal of Alcohol? :surprise: