(SPOILERS)13 worlds lore

[Yunas13]

I've a question about this. They start mentioning these later in the MSQ with the relation to the warriors of darkness. I've had an idea for a character but don't know the idea will work. What are these worlds exactly? Are they planets? Other dimensions? I've got an original character that will possibly have a connection with particular FF main characters but her memory is foggy like Garnet in IX. Would love to know the answer to this!

[L'ohba Tia]

They're parallel, alternate versions of Hydaelyn. They have no connection to other FF worlds, and most of them are now gone.

[Misteyes]

No connection to other FF worlds that we know of.

 

During the Lightning Returns crossover event, Yoshi P. did say that there was a basis for it in FFXIV's cosmology, and made a big deal about how it was "the real" Lightning. Presumably, if the FFXI event was also canon, it could be inferred that Vana'diel is also one of the reflections.

 

None of this is confirmed to be the case of course, and even if it was, it would not necessarily mean that any game in the series besides 11 and 13 had reflections.

[L'ohba Tia]

No connection to other FF worlds that we know of.

 

During the Lightning Returns crossover event, Yoshi P. did say that there was a basis for it in FFXIV's cosmology, and made a big deal about how it was "the real" Lightning. Presumably, if the FFXI event was also canon, it could be inferred that Vana'diel is also one of the reflections.

 

None of this is confirmed to be the case of course, and even if it was, it would not necessarily mean that any game in the series besides 11 and 13 had reflections.

 

The Reflections are exactly that, Reflections. The other FF worlds are connected to Hydaelyn and each other through the Interdimensional Rift, which we'll be seeing in Stormblood. The Rift is also apparently where the Ascians hang out.

[Valence]

They're parallel, alternate versions of Hydaelyn. They have no connection to other FF worlds, and most of them are now gone.

 

I don't recall having read anything about most of them being gone.

 

As far as we know the 13th shard (the world of Unukalhai) is definitely destroyed since it turned into the Void.

 

The 1st shard is the world from the Warriors of Darkness and has been scorched by the Light. However 3.4 clearly says that Minfillia is sent there to act as the emissary of the mother crystal, so maybe there is still hope for that one.

[Kilieit]

I've seen a lot of people saying that most of the Shards are destroyed, but I can't actually recall any lore evidence for this idea, beyond the vague idea that each Calamity on the Source echoed through the Reflections...

 

We only know details about the state of the 13th and the 1st, and we know that Nabriales is an Ascian who originated from the 12th, "the fragment world adjoining the Void" (but we don't know anything about the state he left it in...). I can't recall, at this date, reading any details about any of the other Reflections.

 

I wonder where it's coming from? Telephone game shenanigans where people take the seven Rejoining attempts (AKA Calamities) as having actually destroyed shards rather than just trying to collapse them back into the Source? Because I doubt that's happening: the one shard that has been confirmed destroyed, the 13th (aka the Void), has also been confirmed useless to the Ascians and now unable to Rejoin. It was destroyed by Igeyorhm, due to her outclassing its Warriors of Light so badly that its balance was tipped beyond the point of no return - it was not destroyed as the result of a Rejoining attempt.

 

It's actively against the Ascians' interests to fully destroy Reflections. They probably wouldn't be employing a strategy that would cause it as a matter of routine - so it's unlikely that initiating attempts at a Rejoining has this effect.

 

I can't imagine most of the Reflections are in top shape, but neither is the Source, really.

 

As for what they are, they're parallel dimensions. The Void ironically provides the clearest described example of the nature of Reflections.

 

The Properties of the Void and Voidsent

If recent treatises penned by the Scions of the Seventh Dawn are to be believed, Hydaelyn may be more than a realm created and ruled by a pantheon of Twelve, but also the embodiment of two sentient beings - the eponymous “Mother” of our world and Her antithesis, Zodiark, and that it is a conflict between these two that resulted in the void’s creation. Hydaelyn - will of Light - sensing treachery at the hands of Zodiark - will of Darkness - banished Her twin, sealing Him deep within the moon. This excision of Light from Darkness, however, left a wound in the aether, splitting the corporeal plane from the “Source” into ten and three mirrored “reflections” which, while identical upon their formation, saw separate and unique evolutions.

[...]

 

Summoning Voidsent

Though one could walk a thousand malms and never reach the other, the void and the Source lie but a hair’s breadth apart, separated by an unseen veil serving to prevent travel between the two worlds. This veil, however, is not absolute, and with the right amount of aetherial force can be torn to create temporary gateways - gateways to which aether-starved voidsent are drawn, sensing the life energies of our realm. Naturally occurring rents are typically minor, allowing only the smallest and weakest of voidsent through before the wound heals. However in the years leading up to and following the Calamity, the barrier between the two planes has grown weak, resulting in larger and more frequently tears and thusly stronger intruders.

[...]

 

 

Speculating: I wonder if the relative ease of travel from the Void to Eorzea is a direct result of the fact the Void is a destroyed Reflection, or of the fact that its former denizens (now Voidsent) are no longer mortal. It seems like the Warriors of Darkness had to go through a lot to bring themselves to the Source, whereas Voidsent can do it almost by accident. And I can't recall any concrete examples of travellers from other Reflections randomly appearing like Voidsent do, despite there being statistically more of them...

 

Here is my full lore book transcript on the Void, anyway. It's still our most well-known example of interdimensional travel, even though I'm warning you that the same rules may not apply to other, in-tact Reflections.

[L'ohba Tia]

The Reflections that are gone are those that have been Rejoined. That's the purpose of an Umbral Era, and there have been seven of those so far. Where those worlds go isn't entirely clear. Elidibus told the Warriors of Darkness that their world's Lifestream would be fused with the Source and the life within it would have a chance to continue on, but we have no idea if he was being completely honest.

[Valence]

I am... not totally sure if you are speaking about what the Ascians want, what really happened, or just theories...?

[L'ohba Tia]

I am... not totally sure if you are speaking about what the Ascians want, what really happened, or just theories...?

 

I'm talking about what Hydaelyn and the Warriors of Darkness discussed about the Reflections and the Umbral Calamities. There have been seven Umbral Eras and thus seven Rejoinings. Arbert was told that creating a Calamity by killing the Warrior of Light would Rejoin his world and fuse its Lifestream to the Source, salvaging what remained of it before the void of light could swallow it.

[Valence]

I don't think all Calamities had anything to do with any other Shard rejoining the Source? As far as I'm aware, none has rejoined as of yet, and the thirteen has been definitely spoiled. The Ascians are still at it, trying to force rejoinings, and have yet to succeed for a single one of them.

 

The Calamities were designed to weaken Hydaelyn's will and sap her power away. It's the exact same method that is used on all the Shards as well, with the aim to force those rejoining against Hydaelyn's will.

 

So far, no Calamity has succeeded yet, but it's always a step further in the direction of Hydaelyn's downfall. It is said at some point in the MSQ that the last one happening on the Source (the 7th with Bahamut) was probably the last one the mother crystal could take and was fortunately dampened a lot thanks to the efforts of the Scions.

[L'ohba Tia]

I don't think all Calamities had anything to do with any other Shard rejoining the Source? As far as I'm aware, none has rejoined as of yet, and the thirteen has been definitely spoiled. The Ascians are still at it, trying to force rejoinings, and have yet to succeed for a single one of them.

 

The Calamities were designed to weaken Hydaelyn's will and sap her power away. It's the exact same method that is used on all the Shards as well, with the aim to force those rejoining against Hydaelyn's will.

 

So far, no Calamity has succeeded yet, but it's always a step further in the direction of Hydaelyn's downfall. It is said at some point in the MSQ that the last one happening on the Source (the 7th with Bahamut) was probably the last one the mother crystal could take and was fortunately dampened a lot thanks to the efforts of the Scions.

 

 

[Valence]

Huh well, that was probably the tidbit I forgot about.

 

The thing I have always wondered in any case is while they create Calamities in the Source to weaken Hydaelyn, what is exactly the mission of Ascians sent in Shards/Reflections? It was hinted that they got to destabilize them, while still apparently keeping a semblance of balance between light and dark.. But to what purpose and what effect? Do they need those shards in those specific states when Calamities happen in the Source? Do they have to synchronize the shit they do in Shards with the Calamities happening in the Source for a Rejoining to occur?

[Aaron]

Are Ascians really bad guys or are they like, Chaotic Good? Kinda like Gilgamesh from Fate?

 

Cause this whole rejoining thing doesn't strike me as evil moreso than just the means to reach it.

[LiadansWhisper]

Are Ascians really bad guys or are they like, Chaotic Good? Kinda like Gilgamesh from Fate?

 

Cause this whole rejoining thing doesn't strike me as evil moreso than just the means to reach it.

 

When a world rejoins, everyone on the world dies.

[Aaron]

Are Ascians really bad guys or are they like, Chaotic Good? Kinda like Gilgamesh from Fate?

 

Cause this whole rejoining thing doesn't strike me as evil moreso than just the means to reach it.

 

When a world rejoins, everyone on the world dies.

Perhaps bit like is the benefit of rejoining great enough to make living things temporary existence sacrificial?

[LiadansWhisper]

Perhaps bit like is the benefit of rejoining great enough to make living things temporary existence sacrificial?

 

Everyone dies. It's genocide. There is no way you can view it as a "good" end. Everyone - and I do mean everyone - is dead.

[Aaron]

Perhaps bit like is the benefit of rejoining great enough to make living things temporary existence sacrificial?

 

Everyone dies.  It's genocide.  There is no way you can view it as a "good" end.  Everyone - and I do mean everyone - is dead.

Yeah but everything is gonna die eventually, my question is what does the actual Rejoining do?

[LiadansWhisper]

Yeah but everything is gonna die eventually, my question is what does the actual Rejoining do?

 

The destruction of your world is like, not a good thing. Most sane people would agree that the utter destruction of an entire world is a bad thing.

 

I mean, maybe you think it's good. :roll:

[Aaron]

Yeah but everything is gonna die eventually, my question is what does the actual Rejoining do?

 

The destruction of your world is like, not a good thing.  Most sane people would agree that the utter destruction of an entire world is a bad thing.

 

I mean, maybe you think it's good. :roll:

When you're dead you won't even be aware of it's destruction anymore.

[LiadansWhisper]

When you're dead you won't even be aware of it's destruction anymore.

 

You can't be sure of that, however. You've never been dead.

 

But if you're right, that's actually part of the horror.

[Aaron]

When you're dead you won't even be aware of it's destruction anymore.

 

You can't be sure of that, however.  You've never been dead.

 

But if you're right, that's actually part of the horror.

People who've died irl and been revived recall not even knowing they were dead if we're being technical.

[LiadansWhisper]

People who've died irl and been revived recall not even knowing they were dead if we're being technical.

 

I mean, if you want to make the argument that it's totes okay to utterly destroy a world and murder possibly billions of people, I mean...I can't really argue with you.

 

Because that's just ripe bullshit, and you're nuts.

 

So like, if that's your argument, more power to you. I'm not engaging with crazy, thanks.

[Aaron]

People who've died irl and been revived recall not even knowing they were dead if we're being technical.

 

I mean, if you want to make the argument that it's totes okay to utterly destroy a world and murder possibly billions of people, I mean...I can't really argue with you.

 

Because that's just ripe bullshit, and you're nuts.

 

So like, if that's your argument, more power to you.  I'm not engaging with crazy, thanks.

And it seems you completely missed the point.

[Valence]

From what I suspect the whole ordeal of getting all the Shards to rejoin with Hydaelyn is to bring Zodiark back from its exile and rejoin with Hydaelyn. I doubt that it bodes very well for Hydaelyn, but hey, maybe Elidibus will surprise us with his usual sophisms

[Aaron]

Thank you for answering my question Valence.