R.E.T. Con.

[LeCard]

That's right, this is a Conversation about Ruby, Emerald, and Topaz carbuncles.

 

"Using the selfsame symbols to unlock the latent power contained within gemstones, arcanists are also able to summon forth the familiar known as Carbuncle to carry out their bidding."

 

 

Now the offical site lore says that Arcanist use their spells to unlock powers from within certain gemstones, but did anyone see a reference to this in the game?

 

I bring this question of lore up because, if the gemstone is not required for the summoning of a carbuncle than I may have to retcon part of my characters story due to his acquiring the needed stone being an integral plot point.

 

I got through the level 15 class quest in the beta, but I didn't notice any real reference to the stones themselves aside from the naming of the versions of carbuncle. maybe I missed this, maybe I just didn't talk to the right NPCs I don't know, but it does raise the question to me:

"how important is the Gemstone in summoning a Carbuncle? Can an Arcanist perform all of their spells with nothing but a pen and a grimoire as the requirements?"

 

Anyone else think that the Summoner book would be more appropriate for an arcanist with the Carbuncle gemstone visible?

 

I want to hear the community's take on this, so fire away.

[Kaiden Albright]

EDIT:  Misunderstood.  After looking at it again, I think all they would need is their grimoire that contains the symbols of power that they need to cast spells.

 

Similar to how conjurers would be able to create stone from the aether in the immediate surroundings, I think arcanists would be able to do their magic without needing a gemstone.  They'd just need the symbols.

[Roda]

Does the reference to gemstones have to be in writing?

Because..

I think the actual summoning spells are the only ones that require fancy tools, everything else should be simple enough to perform with only the grimoire.

(Conjuring up a fully functioning life-form is complex, yo!)

(Of course the grimoire wouldn't just be simple paper and ink. The way I visualize their spells working is that the covers hold the brunt of the magic power, but you need a catalyst to actually release that magic stuff.  The paper, ink, and a smidge of your own magic juice are what does that job.  The paper gradually and evenly absorbs the cover's magic at a safe rate (a limiter, if you will). The ink forces the magic stuff from that page to take the shape that is drawn (I assume magic units work kind of like atoms in molecules, in that they like to bond to each other in a certain way depending on how they're provoked.) Depending on the spell, you can just fling the newly made magic structure (and a bit of your own magic juice, to get it going) out of the book and have it attach to your target, or, for the more complex stuff, you will have to run a particularly strong magic conductor (like the hand!) across it to make the magic leave the page.  In the case of summoning, you would need something quite strong to rip the spell from its page, due to the fact that you're materializing a flippin' complex living being that can make decisions and shit!  And since crystals in this game are kind of supercharged magic doohikeys, it would make sense that you would have to use some kind of varient of them for that particular type of spell. Of course, this is just how I interpret it.)

[Gossamer]

I was also surprised to see no reference to the gemstones in the Arcanist storyline so far, or from any npcs at the guild. But since it's on the official site, that's what I went with for N'klas' backstory. The gem angle is fairly important to him. I wouldn't mind it being at least referenced in-game at some point.

 

However, as for the question at hand, I think it'd be fine to go either way. Perhaps it could be seen that the whole writing animation is required if the Arcanist doesn't actually have a gemstone on hand to draw from.

 

My view on Arcanist spellwork is that the power is in the symbols themselves rather than the actual book. The book is just handy, because it contains this vast library of symbols already so the Arcanist doesn't normally need to actively draw them out on the fly in battle. Which could also lead to some fun ideas of maybe larger spellwork (for rp purposes) being possible by actively drawing out large geometric symbols to whatever purpose.

 

But I do like the idea Roda brought up of the writing out in the grimoires acting as a catalyst. So maybe I'd use that if the person didn't have a gemstone handy for the more complex summoning spell. Or writing out symbols is better for more potent spells. But it's just not something that's usually all that feasible in battle.

 

That's my personal take on it at least.

[Folken]

I'm about to kill this thread.

 

There is no Ruby Carbuncle.

 

Arcanist only gets 2 summons. Summon at level 1, and Summon II at level 15.

 

Summon III is Summoner only, and is the Ifrit Egi gained at level 30. There is no carbuncle equivalent.

This is also why Scholar only gets 2 fairies, because they do not get an additional summon spell at 30.

[Quuyn]

I'm about to kill this thread.

 

There is no Ruby Carbuncle.

 

...So you're saying you're going to... RETCon it?

[Folken]

 

...So you're saying you're going to... RETCon it?

 

It's not really a retcon when it was never correct in the first place

[Aysun]

Arcanist only gets 2 summons. Summon at level 1, and Summon II at level 15.

 

That surprises me. I also wants to know how you know, with the limit cap being 20! They did show 3 kinds of carbys didn't they? In a letter?

[Kismet]

Arcanist only gets 2 summons. Summon at level 1, and Summon II at level 15.

 

That surprises me. I also wants to know how you know, with the limit cap being 20! They did show 3 kinds of carbys didn't they? In a letter?

 

Even though the level cap was 20, you could still see all of the skills up to lv50 you'll eventually get for the class you currently are in your Actions & Traits menu. There's also this wiki.

[E'irawen]

Arcanist only gets 2 summons. Summon at level 1, and Summon II at level 15.

 

That surprises me. I also wants to know how you know, with the limit cap being 20! They did show 3 kinds of carbys didn't they? In a letter?

 

Even though the level cap was 20, you could still see all of the skills up to lv50 you'll eventually get for the class you currently are in your Actions & Traits menu. There's also this wiki.

 

Not to hijack, but I was checking out that link and found myself poking at the Summoner page. Maybe I missed something in one of the newer letters...but I only see the Ifrit Egi on the page? Wasn't there Shiva and others in one of the letter videos?

[Sophia]

I think, when you switch to Summoner, your Summon and Summon II spells change automatically.

 

The way I always thought of it was Summon would summon Emerald Carbuncle as Arcanist, or Garuda-Egi as Summoner.

 

Summon II = Topaz Carbuncle as Arcanist or Titan-Egi as Summoner.

 

And when you switch to Scholar, they just change Summon and Summon II to healer pet and support pet respectively.

 

That's how I think it's going to work, but don't quote me on that! That's why it says a "caster-type" pet in my opinion and not "Emerald Carbuncle" and the like.

 

Edit: Ah! If you go to the job pages and look under Pet Actions, you'll see Summoner still has Summon and Summon II. So yeah, I think it's going to work this way.

[Eve Malusion]

Arcanist only gets 2 summons. Summon at level 1, and Summon II at level 15.

 

That surprises me. I also wants to know how you know, with the limit cap being 20! They did show 3 kinds of carbys didn't they? In a letter?

 

Even though the level cap was 20, you could still see all of the skills up to lv50 you'll eventually get for the class you currently are in your Actions & Traits menu. There's also this wiki.

 

Not to hijack, but I was checking out that link and found myself poking at the Summoner page. Maybe I missed something in one of the newer letters...but I only see the Ifrit Egi on the page? Wasn't there Shiva and others in one of the letter videos?

At launch you're confirmed to only have Ifrit, Titan and Garuda as far as I know, though they said they might add more further down the line. The summoning spells that you use for carbuncles will be used to summon the other 2.

[Kylin]

I think, when you switch to Summoner, your Summon and Summon II spells change automatically.

 

The way I always thought of it was Summon would summon Emerald Carbuncle as Arcanist, or Garuda-Egi as Summoner.

 

Summon II = Topaz Carbuncle as Arcanist or Titan-Egi as Summoner.

 

I'm not sure how it'll translate into Scholar, though. That's how I think it's going to work, but don't quote me on that! That's why it says a "caster-type" pet in my opinion and not "Emerald Carbuncle" and the like.

 

This is correct. Summon I and II are still usable on SMN. They just summon Titan and Garuda instead.

[Havoc Snow]

Just to clarify some things (or emphasize on them since they've already been stated) Arcanist only gets access to Summon (Emerald Carbuncle) and Summon II (Topaz Carbuncle). Summon is considered a Caster Summon, and Summon II is a Tank Summon.

 

Scholar also only gains access to Summon (Eos), and Summon II (Selene). Summon for Scholar is considered a Healing Summon and Summon II is a Support Summon.

 

Summoner on the other hand gets access to Summon (Garuda), Summon II (Titan), and Summon III (Ifrit). Summon and Summon II fill the same role as their Arcanist counterparts, while Summon III is a Melee DPS Summon.

 

During the last Live Letter, Yoshida was asked if there would be anymore Egis and his answer as (unfortunately) no, not until there was a level cap increase. This means we may see Egis for Shiva, Ramuh, Leviathan, and maybe even Odin and Bahamut, but not until an Expansion more than likely.

 

Q8: Are there any plans to implement additional egi?

 

A8: If we were going to implement additional egi, it would be when we raise the level cap.

 

As far as the original question goes, the storyline for Arcanists is exceedingly lacking in acknowledgement of your ability to Summon Carbuncle, they just sort of say "Good job, you can control your Cosmic Bunny. Come back in five levels." In fact you don't even need to complete the level 15 quest to get access to Summon II, they just give it to you prior to actually doing the quest, primarily because it's a tutorial on how to use the Topaz Carbuncle as a tank.

 

That being said, within the actual summoning animation itself we see the use of the aforementioned crystals, so it's safe to assume even if the quests don't mention them the game still shows them being used.

[Sophia]

Oops! In that reply I totally forgot to even relate back to the original post!

 

I'll just echo what Ashren is saying and point to Roda's picture!

 

It might not be mentioned but the casting animation is different and just provide a visual on the gemstones. I guess that might be the only 'support' of it being in the game. But as the class information was released by Square Enix I wouldn't say you have to 'retcon' it, really. It's still shown in the game!

 

Whether everyone will go the same route is a different question, but I've already noticed quite a few people have creative stories about their Carbuncle.

 

But personally I feel like it's all fine going with the gem is needed, myself!

[Reppu]

Summoning Carbuncle probably isn't the biggest accomplishment, which is why the Arcanist Storyline doesn't really acknowledge it.

 

Going into the lower levels of the Arcanist guild shows that the Carbuncles actually need some level of training to be useful. So... it's probably just a 'congratulations, you can do what your fellow Arcanists can do. Now make it capable of walking a straight line with out falling over.'

 

As much as I love Carbuncle, I think the lack of 'connection' is intended, so we don't feel bad when we lose access to the little ball of neon fluff.

[Havoc Snow]

The lore also seems to imply that they aren't Pokemon with unique personalities or feelings, they're just magic constructs that act as an extension of your own will. This isn't to say "Hey don't play them as being special!" Just that the storyline doesn't put a lot of focus on them because they aren't your Pikachu traveling the land with you on your adventure, more like they're just another tool in your toolbox.

[Averis]

As much as I love Carbuncle, I think the lack of 'connection' is intended, so we don't feel bad when we lose access to the little ball of neon fluff.

 

Haha, "little ball of neon fluff", I love it!

 

I still think there is room for a character to get attached to their summon anyway, depending on the character's personality. Even if it's similar to how you treat a special car etc.

 

I'm curious about the Scholar's faeries as they seem like they could talk etc. If these things are merely constructs that have no emotion or personality then why do they take these forms, or why do we give them these forms?

[LeCard]

I'm about to kill this thread.

 

There is no Ruby Carbuncle.

 

Arcanist only gets 2 summons. Summon at level 1, and Summon II at level 15.

 

Summon III is Summoner only, and is the Ifrit Egi gained at level 30. There is no carbuncle equivalent

This is also why Scholar only gets 2 fairies, because they do not get an additional summon spell at 30.

Not going to kill the thread because:

1:Ruby carbuncle is the original carbuncle, so even if they refuse to put him in he gets an honorable mention.

2: there is still plenty to talk about carbuncle and how it interacts with the arcanist

 

 

During the last Live Letter, Yoshida was asked if there would be anymore Egis and his answer as (unfortunately) no, not until there was a level cap increase. This means we may see Egis for Shiva, Ramuh, Leviathan, and maybe even Odin and Bahamut, but not until an Expansion more than likely.

 

Q8: Are there any plans to implement additional egi?

 

A8: If we were going to implement additional egi, it would be when we raise the level cap.

 

 

That being said, within the actual summoning animation itself we see the use of the aforementioned crystals, so it's safe to assume even if the quests don't mention them the game still shows them being used.

my hope is that, just like they wont release any more egis until the lvl cap raise maybe they are just waiting to add another carbuncle until then.

 

Personally I would be disappointed in yoshi if they don't at least make some reference to all the ruby awesomeness of previous carbuncles.

 

Also, great screen cap. I totally forgot that you had three gems floating around you. Still wish you could get a little more info on how the gem affects the spell and what not, but at least it is there in some way.

[Roda]

The lore also seems to imply that they aren't Pokemon with unique personalities or feelings, they're just magic constructs that act as an extension of your own will. This isn't to say "Hey don't play them as being special!" Just that the storyline doesn't put a lot of focus on them because they aren't your Pikachu traveling the land with you on your adventure, more like they're just another tool in your toolbox.

I'm so glad I'm not the only one who reads it like this.

They seem to be adorable robots made out out of magic and dreams.

Summoning them either creates them completely, or binds a consciousness to our plane of existence.

[Havoc Snow]

If these things are merely constructs that have no emotion or personality then why do they take these forms, or why do we give them these forms?

Fanservice.

[Aduu Avagnar]

As myself and a couple of others have taken it in Soliloquy tonight, we are treating it as the crystal is a focus to summon them, rather than the creature being summoned from the crystal if that makes sense.

[LeCard]

As myself and a couple of others have taken it in Soliloquy tonight, we are treating it as the crystal is a focus to summon them, rather than the creature being summoned from the crystal if that makes sense.

to go back to my original quote "unlock the latent power contained within gemstones"

which to me, means that you are simply accessing the power that is already present in the gemstones. kind of like taking the potential energy of the stone and giving it a kinetic form through the geometric symbols. which would explain why a topaz stone would create a different type of carbuncle than an emerald.

 

which is to say, you are the focus for the gemstones Aetheric power

[Aduu Avagnar]

As myself and a couple of others have taken it in Soliloquy tonight, we are treating it as the crystal is a focus to summon them, rather than the creature being summoned from the crystal if that makes sense.

to go back to my original quote "unlock the latent power contained within gemstones"

which to me, means that you are simply accessing the power that is already present in the gemstones. kind of like taking the potential energy of the stone and giving it a kinetic form through the geometric symbols. which would explain why a topaz stone would create a different type of carbuncle than an emerald.

 

which is to say, you are the focus for the gemstones Aetheric power

However, in the game, the acting guild mistress states that carbuncle is summoned from the aether. 

 

There is nothing saying what that latent power is. Therefore the latent power could well simply be acting as a focus, and you are calling upon that. This fulfils both aspects of the current lore.

[Xha'li Moui]

I'm with Nako'li in that the Carbuncle is a creature of the aether and the crystal, and any latent power it might have, is simply the "path" we use to find and call our Carbuncle into the mortal realm.