Nobility in RP

[Kismet]

While we're on the subject, how valid is playing a Lalafell princess, exactly? I wouldn't think it was possible for a player to even do that. I know that the Sultana only reigns over Ul'dah and its people... But other than that, I have no idea how Lalafell royalty works. I mean, there are no other places besides Ul'dah that would have a royal family to even rule them in Eorzea, are there (since Sil'dih and its entire civilization no longer exist)? Or are people making up their own city-state?

[Faye]

While we're on the subject, how valid is playing a Lalafell princess, exactly? I wouldn't think it was possible for a player to even do that. I know that the Sultana only reigns over Ul'dah and its people... But other than that, I have no idea how Lalafell royalty works. I mean, there are no other places besides Ul'dah that would have a royal family to even rule them in Eorzea, are there? Or are people making up their own city-state?

 

She said her Lalafell princess was from a county she made up herself.

[LiadansWhisper]

 

I'm just going to leave this here and merrily continue RPing a Lady from Gridania.

 

Could swear I mentioned that exact conversation earlier in the thread! :-P

[E'irawen]

The way I've learned is to sort of follow the golden rule of "don't be a dick."

 

I know most people don't have any problems with nobility in your character so long as it's sort of just...logical and not all god-moddy, if that makes sense?

 

If your character has some wealth or title, that's probably okay. But I don't think it's generally approved of if you try to be the long lost son of Gaius and you own the deeds to half of Eorzea.

 

Using my own character as an example (though it isn't up anymore, as I'm adjusting the writing on the wiki), Ophelia is technically a noble. Her family's status and wealth come from their hand in the fishing markets in Limsa. They aren't the richest-of-the-rich and don't have any extreme ties or control of anything, but around Limsa at the very least, her namesake might get her some favors.

[Kismet]

The way I've learned is to sort of follow the golden rule of "don't be a dick."

 

I know most people don't have any problems with nobility in your character so long as it's sort of just...logical and not all god-moddy, if that makes sense?

 

If your character has some wealth or title, that's probably okay. But I don't think it's generally approved of if you try to be the long lost son of Gaius and you own the deeds to half of Eorzea.

 

Using my own character as an example (though it isn't up anymore, as I'm adjusting the writing on the wiki), Ophelia is technically a noble. Her family's status and wealth come from their hand in the fishing markets in Limsa. They aren't the richest-of-the-rich and don't have any extreme ties or control of anything, but around Limsa at the very least, her namesake might get her some favors.

 

I definitely agree with this.

 

I also really like how you're treating that. I've always found what I like to call 'mundane nobility' charming. The wealth isn't crazy abundant, the business the family is in isn't anything grandiose, and they don't possess any sort of crazy ties. Humble nobles are awesome.

[Freemoon]

If your character has some wealth or title, that's probably okay. But I don't think it's generally approved of if you try to be the long lost son of Gaius and you own the deeds to half of Eorzea.

 

That sort of thing both agitates and amuses me.  

 

On the one hand, it is entirely frustrating to have some RP going when someone barges in and tries to make everyone do as they say or claiming they are either a well know character or their relative (although in some cases this CAN work, but it shouldn't be a go-to idea), or sometimes even attempting to be another well known character from another setting entirely (and they usually ends up getting aggressive because they don't understand that RP doesn't quite work that way).

 

On the other hand, it is often hilarious trying to follow their twisted sense of logic that they use to try to rationalize why they are acting that way.  There is always the slim chance this sort of person really does want to get into RP and just doesn't know how, and that is forgivable (We all make mistakes, after all).  But the people who stubbornly refuse to accept that they aren't getting their way and throw a tantrum like a two year old who didn't get the toy they wanted, those are the ones who make me laugh.

[Dravus]

It's pretty questionable to role-play one's character as being royalty. It doesn't matter if it's a huge secret either. In fact, if you're unlikely to ever reveal something like that to begin with it seems rather redundant to tack it on as a potential plot hook in the first place.

 

I saw a lot of role-players try to do something similar in WoW as well. No role-player is special enough to be able to create an entire country to justify their character's existence. Why not simply work with the setting as it is currently depicted instead of trying to add various 'hidden' locations that don't even exist as far the canon lore is concerned?

[Ildur]

Out-of-map locations can work well for backstory only if those locations are mostly irrelevant on a large scale. Making up that you come from a village that is in an indeterminate "somewhere" is fine. Making up that you come from a city state hidden between the mountains borders traditional fan-fiction territory.

Now, you might say "But NPCs can't acknowledge the existence of my irrelevant town, either!" and think that writes it off as a thing you shouldn't do. However, because the town is irrelevant and not the size of a whole city state or nation, the fact that the world can't acknowledge it doesn't mean they don't exist. It just means they are too irrelevant to be noticed by the general population. That's why making up that you come from a village (or, for example, a Miqo'te tribe that lives in X region) is fine.

 

Even then, though, it is better if you can pick up an in-lore location for your backstory than to make one up. There might be some character concepts that don't work well with any of the in-game towns/cities/villages, but those concepts are kind of rare and chances are you will find a town/etc that fits the backstory already in-game. After all, we have quite a lot of in-game locations to pick from.

[Brynhilde]

Lord of what? Lady of what?

 

Nobility generally implies some sort of hereditary power (typically tied to land ownership) and doesn't exist in isolation. As far as I know, Ishgard is the only society in Eorzea with a system of noble families.

 

We know Ul'dah has nobility, we know Garlemald has nobility, Ala Mhigo, being a formerly independant nation, probably had nobility. Ishgard is not the only society in Eorzea with noble families, it is simply the one with the most emphasis on them.

 

It's been explicitly stated in the lore that Ala Mhigo had nobility. When king Theodoric went off his rocker and started lopping off heads left, right and centre, a bunch of nobility got together to appeal to the queen to stop him. When that didn't work, they started a clandestine plot to assassinate him. But he found out, and we can all see where that went.

[YesGood]

It's pretty questionable to role-play one's character as being royalty. It doesn't matter if it's a huge secret either. In fact, if you're unlikely to ever reveal something like that to begin with it seems rather redundant to tack it on as a potential plot hook in the first place.

 

I saw a lot of role-players try to do something similar in WoW as well. No role-player is special enough to be able to create an entire country to justify their character's existence. Why not simply work with the setting as it is currently depicted instead of trying to add various 'hidden' locations that don't even exist as far the canon lore is concerned?

 

The majority of WoW nobility I ever saw were humans or Blood Elves. Blood Elves sort of kind of make sense of you take in the Convocation of Silvermoon-- as at least five of the houses were unnamed so far as I've ever found. One large effort on Ravenholdt was to re-establish seven houses (not including Sunstrider or Drathir) in place of the seven that had fallen in RP. It was done entirely through roleplay and for a while it worked out really nicely, consolidating smaller houses into larger one and generally using political marriage and manipulation to get things combed out.

 

Humans... I dunno about humans. I know there are lords and there were kings of different areas. I'm not too well informed about the various stories and origins so anyone who told me they were a lord of some odd place or another I would generally have to accept on my Night Elf who gave about two poops for human bloodlines and nobility. Siobhain would probably respond much the same way-- if someone looks like a noble, and they act like a noble, and they have enough people to back them up, why wouldn't she assume they -were- in character unless she had strong reason to doubt them such as having lived in and being well acquainted in the particular area they should have been well known in? Even then she likely wouldn't doubt it. It's mostly about appearances.

 

1. the quality of being noble in character, mind, birth, or rank.

 

2. the group of people belonging to the noble class in a country, esp. those with a hereditary or honorary title.

 

Honorary title is up there with hereditary. Honestly, if you have enough money and you have enough sway over the locals, even if you're NOT acknowledged by the primary ruling body of an area, you might as well be a noble.

[K'dath]

It's pretty questionable to role-play one's character as being royalty. It doesn't matter if it's a huge secret either. In fact, if you're unlikely to ever reveal something like that to begin with it seems rather redundant to tack it on as a potential plot hook in the first place.

 

I saw a lot of role-players try to do something similar in WoW as well. No role-player is special enough to be able to create an entire country to justify their character's existence. Why not simply work with the setting as it is currently depicted instead of trying to add various 'hidden' locations that don't even exist as far the canon lore is concerned?

 

The majority of WoW nobility I ever saw were humans or Blood Elves. Blood Elves sort of kind of make sense of you take in the Convocation of Silvermoon-- as at least five of the houses were unnamed so far as I've ever found. One large effort on Ravenholdt was to re-establish seven houses (not including Sunstrider or Drathir) in place of the seven that had fallen in RP. It was done entirely through roleplay and for a while it worked out really nicely, consolidating smaller houses into larger one and generally using political marriage and manipulation to get things combed out.

 

 

I never played on Ravenholdt, so I can't speak for that, but we had dozens of Sin'Dorei 'noble houses' on Moon Guard... and they were all awful. The idea itself isn't bad, in theory. But you're taking a major lore component into the hands of players at that point. Especially if you're going to present your house with having any sort of merit that's to be respected or acknowledged ICly.

 

I think it can be done, I think it can be done well, again in theory. But you have to have the drive, the ambition, the organization, and perhaps most importantly the lore knowledge to pull it off and run a respectable establishment.

 

Standing in bars all day playing spin-the-bottle is not what nobles do, and organizing whole houses around that perception is even worse. And that's what they all were. In fact, that's all any 'noble' type RP I've ever seen, really bad played up 'Victorian Playboy' types. Thus, my long running apprehension.

[LiadansWhisper]

Lord of what? Lady of what?

 

Nobility generally implies some sort of hereditary power (typically tied to land ownership) and doesn't exist in isolation. As far as I know, Ishgard is the only society in Eorzea with a system of noble families.

 

We know Ul'dah has nobility, we know Garlemald has nobility, Ala Mhigo, being a formerly independant nation, probably had nobility. Ishgard is not the only society in Eorzea with noble families, it is simply the one with the most emphasis on them.

 

It's been explicitly stated in the lore that Ala Mhigo had nobility. When king Theodoric went off his rocker and started lopping off heads left, right and centre, a bunch of nobility got together to appeal to the queen to stop him. When that didn't work, they started a clandestine plot to assassinate him. But he found out, and we can all see where that went.

 

Yeah, it's also true that any time you have a monarchic system of government (whether it's a King, Emperor, Sultan, whatever), you're going to have nobility.  They are the people who are movers and shakers within that society.

[YesGood]

It's pretty questionable to role-play one's character as being royalty. It doesn't matter if it's a huge secret either. In fact, if you're unlikely to ever reveal something like that to begin with it seems rather redundant to tack it on as a potential plot hook in the first place.

 

I saw a lot of role-players try to do something similar in WoW as well. No role-player is special enough to be able to create an entire country to justify their character's existence. Why not simply work with the setting as it is currently depicted instead of trying to add various 'hidden' locations that don't even exist as far the canon lore is concerned?

 

The majority of WoW nobility I ever saw were humans or Blood Elves. Blood Elves sort of kind of make sense of you take in the Convocation of Silvermoon-- as at least five of the houses were unnamed so far as I've ever found. One large effort on Ravenholdt was to re-establish seven houses (not including Sunstrider or Drathir) in place of the seven that had fallen in RP. It was done entirely through roleplay and for a while it worked out really nicely, consolidating smaller houses into larger one and generally using political marriage and manipulation to get things combed out.

 

 

I never played on Ravenholdt, so I can't speak for that, but we had dozens of Sin'Dorei 'noble houses' on Moon Guard... and they were all awful. The idea itself isn't bad, in theory. But you're taking a major lore component into the hands of players at that point. Especially if you're going to present your house with having any sort of merit that's to be respected or acknowledged ICly.

 

I think it can be done, I think it can be done well, again in theory. But you have to have the drive, the ambition, the organization, and perhaps most importantly the lore knowledge to pull it off and run a respectable establishment.

 

Standing in bars all day playing spin-the-bottle is not what nobles do, and organizing whole houses around that perception is even worse. And that's what they all were. In fact, that's all any 'noble' type RP I've ever seen, really bad played up 'Victorian Playboy' types. Thus, my long running apprehension.

 

I completely understand your point and I've heard horror stories of MG's hack at 'nobility'. I saw the same thing happen on Wyrmrest Accord and honestly when Ravenholdt began to deteriorate, it happened there too. I'll list my issues with poorly-done noble houses in a moment but on Ravenholdt there was organization. The cornerstone to the whole thing was two large Sin'dorei houses run by an OOCly married couple. One ran one house and his spouse led the other. Their conflict and their openness to bring other houses into the 'fray' provided the building blocks.

 

More, and here's my stance of noble houses, they fulfilled what I consider to be one of the most IMPORTANT parts of running a house-- GIVING YOUR MEMBERS SOME STORY. Too often do I see a clique of people who are all ICly connected or related expecting all their roster to simply support their story. They commonly walk around with their posses who exist, seemingly, only to credit their 'power' or 'status'. In our house at least, each person who was brought into the fold was given plenty of attention. Our officers turned us, trained us, and stayed with us. Our guards actually did their jobs and spent much time talking and training amongst themselves. Our diplomats lived endangered lives, we had spies, infiltrators, scape goats-- no one was simply a servant with no other purpose except to add one more to the roster.

 

We had goals, rivals, and conflict. Nothing was swept under the rug simply because a member who got involved with an issue was 'too low rank to notice'. I mean when it really boils down to it, it's RP. For the nobles, you should have some sway and notoriety. You're not going to get that by trying to accumulate as many RPers as possible then neglecting them or focusing solely on your own story.

 

The revival of the Convocation of Silvermoon made no real efforts to try to twist the actual lore. No one was trying to dethrone Lor'themar, no one was trying to usurp the Horde or pretended that the united 'power' of the group could accomplish such a feat on behalf of the whole of their people. What they did was fill their niche-- whatever job they did that made them a noble house, they continued to do.

 

The conflicts that arose were often two wealthy houses having an issue over territory or jobs that they wanted to fill that some other group wanted as well. The IC decisions they made and topics they discussed affected the united houses as a whole, and perhaps the 'retainer-houses' that were allied with them, but they didn't try and control NPCs. If, say, a war broke out on their doorstep (there were huge non-Elf groups like the Shadowtusk Clan which was a giant Troll guild who hated belfs and loved to start issues that could turn into full scale blood-sport, or evil guilds such as the Knights of the Icy Blade who readied themselves to attack the living houses eventually), they'd use that Convocation to persuade the other houses to aid the effort, throwing whatever accumulated weight they had around and pulling all the ties they'd forged.

 

 Another fun part of it was the 'Shadow War'-- all members of all houses and even non-Elf houses were held to the single important rule 'No fighting in the cities'. The NPC guards would no doubt take you and put you away. Rather than testing that rule and saying 'Oh well that Sentinel just ran by me and didn't do anything' people honored it and took it a step further to the Shadow War. They worked in manipulation, kidnapping, subterfuge, and there were people in the houses whose sole purpose was to do the dirty work and keep the reputation of the house pristine. It's almost unfathomable now-- people not being called on their guild tags simply because they're floating over their head or recognized because of their name.

 

 I don't know. All the memories and the work and how well things went for quite some time still leaves a nice big place in my heart for nobles and noble houses that are done well. I always feel a little sad for an aspiring crime-lord or a noble who doesn't have anyone to beef up their reputation but I feel it's something that can be accomplished in character. I certainly don't want to see nobility demonized OOCly by people who assume everyone who RPs nobility is going to do so poorly and they don't -deserve- to RP a noble character-- but I know the vast majority if not the entirety of the RPC doesn't feel that way because of the general open-mindedness I find here.

 

Someday I'd be happy to have Siobhain swear her loyalty to some noble or another if their views were in line with her own. But chances are, just because of the character type, it'd be far more likely to see her connected to some type of militia or school.

 

*On another note, I yearn to see some large scale criminal coalition in Ul'dah filling different niches that are connected and work together. Similarly, I'd enjoy, I think, seeing a few nobles grouped up and doing noble things together. I'd like to see the dynamic of different nobles and how they interact with each other despite their different origins as well as non-nobles interacting with them. *dreamy sigh*

[K'dath]

It's pretty questionable to role-play one's character as being royalty. It doesn't matter if it's a huge secret either. In fact, if you're unlikely to ever reveal something like that to begin with it seems rather redundant to tack it on as a potential plot hook in the first place.

 

I saw a lot of role-players try to do something similar in WoW as well. No role-player is special enough to be able to create an entire country to justify their character's existence. Why not simply work with the setting as it is currently depicted instead of trying to add various 'hidden' locations that don't even exist as far the canon lore is concerned?

 

The majority of WoW nobility I ever saw were humans or Blood Elves. Blood Elves sort of kind of make sense of you take in the Convocation of Silvermoon-- as at least five of the houses were unnamed so far as I've ever found. One large effort on Ravenholdt was to re-establish seven houses (not including Sunstrider or Drathir) in place of the seven that had fallen in RP. It was done entirely through roleplay and for a while it worked out really nicely, consolidating smaller houses into larger one and generally using political marriage and manipulation to get things combed out.

 

 

I never played on Ravenholdt, so I can't speak for that, but we had dozens of Sin'Dorei 'noble houses' on Moon Guard... and they were all awful. The idea itself isn't bad, in theory. But you're taking a major lore component into the hands of players at that point. Especially if you're going to present your house with having any sort of merit that's to be respected or acknowledged ICly.

 

I think it can be done, I think it can be done well, again in theory. But you have to have the drive, the ambition, the organization, and perhaps most importantly the lore knowledge to pull it off and run a respectable establishment.

 

Standing in bars all day playing spin-the-bottle is not what nobles do, and organizing whole houses around that perception is even worse. And that's what they all were. In fact, that's all any 'noble' type RP I've ever seen, really bad played up 'Victorian Playboy' types. Thus, my long running apprehension.

 

I completely understand your point and I've heard horror stories of MG's hack at 'nobility'. I saw the same thing happen on Wyrmrest Accord and honestly when Ravenholdt began to deteriorate, it happened there too. I'll list my issues with poorly-done noble houses in a moment but on Ravenholdt there was organization. The cornerstone to the whole thing was two large Sin'dorei houses run by an OOCly married couple. One ran one house and his spouse led the other. Their conflict and their openness to bring other houses into the 'fray' provided the building blocks.

 

More, and here's my stance of noble houses, they fulfilled what I consider to be one of the most IMPORTANT parts of running a house-- GIVING YOUR MEMBERS SOME STORY. Too often do I see a clique of people who are all ICly connected or related expecting all their roster to simply support their story. They commonly walk around with their posses who exist, seemingly, only to credit their 'power' or 'status'. In our house at least, each person who was brought into the fold was given plenty of attention. Our officers turned us, trained us, and stayed with us. Our guards actually did their jobs and spent much time talking and training amongst themselves. Our diplomats lived endangered lives, we had spies, infiltrators, scape goats-- no one was simply a servant with no other purpose except to add one more to the roster.

 

We had goals, rivals, and conflict. Nothing was swept under the rug simply because a member who got involved with an issue was 'too low rank to notice'. I mean when it really boils down to it, it's RP. For the nobles, you should have some sway and notoriety. You're not going to get that by trying to accumulate as many RPers as possible then neglecting them or focusing solely on your own story.

 

The revival of the Convocation of Silvermoon made no real efforts to try to twist the actual lore. No one was trying to dethrone Lor'themar, no one was trying to usurp the Horde or pretended that the united 'power' of the group could accomplish such a feat on behalf of the whole of their people. What they did was fill their niche-- whatever job they did that made them a noble house, they continued to do.

 

The conflicts that arose were often two wealthy houses having an issue over territory or jobs that they wanted to fill that some other group wanted as well. The IC decisions they made and topics they discussed affected the united houses as a whole, and perhaps the 'retainer-houses' that were allied with them, but they didn't try and control NPCs. If, say, a war broke out on their doorstep (there were huge non-Elf groups like the Shadowtusk Clan which was a giant Troll guild who hated belfs and loved to start issues that could turn into full scale blood-sport, or evil guilds such as the Knights of the Icy Blade who readied themselves to attack the living houses eventually), they'd use that Convocation to persuade the other houses to aid the effort, throwing whatever accumulated weight they had around and pulling all the ties they'd forged.

 

 Another fun part of it was the 'Shadow War'-- all members of all houses and even non-Elf houses were held to the single important rule 'No fighting in the cities'. The NPC guards would no doubt take you and put you away. Rather than testing that rule and saying 'Oh well that Sentinel just ran by me and didn't do anything' people honored it and took it a step further to the Shadow War. They worked in manipulation, kidnapping, subterfuge, and there were people in the houses whose sole purpose was to do the dirty work and keep the reputation of the house pristine. It's almost unfathomable now-- people not being called on their guild tags simply because they're floating over their head or recognized because of their name.

 

 I don't know. All the memories and the work and how well things went for quite some time still leaves a nice big place in my heart for nobles and noble houses that are done well. I always feel a little sad for an aspiring crime-lord or a noble who doesn't have anyone to beef up their reputation but I feel it's something that can be accomplished in character. I certainly don't want to see nobility demonized OOCly by people who assume everyone who RPs nobility is going to do so poorly and they don't -deserve- to RP a noble character-- but I know the vast majority if not the entirety of the RPC doesn't feel that way because of the general open-mindedness I find here.

 

Someday I'd be happy to have Siobhain swear her loyalty to some noble or another if their views were in line with her own. But chances are, just because of the character type, it'd be far more likely to see her connected to some type of militia or school.

 

*On another note, I yearn to see some large scale criminal coalition in Ul'dah filling different niches that are connected and work together. Similarly, I'd enjoy, I think, seeing a few nobles grouped up and doing noble things together. I'd like to see the dynamic of different nobles and how they interact with each other despite their different origins as well as non-nobles interacting with them. *dreamy sigh*

 

To clarify, I would never assume to tell someone they don't deserve to play anything. You don't need my permission to play whatever you want, however you want. But if I can dissuade someone from making their character some sort of noble for no reason other than 'eh I feel like it' and doing it poorly, in favor of say, something different and interesting involving some unelaborated part of lore, I personally feel like I've done a good deed. I don't mean to outright condemn the subject matter as a whole or tell anyone what to do... in fact earlier in this very thread...

I'd encourage you to do what you want, but temper it with logic and a little bit of research before you put yourself in a situation where you'll be making objective proclamations.

 

Truth be told, the one thing that irked me more than anything was the games of 'noble swap' they various house guilds played. Like they were noble houses who... collected other nobles. Not retainers, not servants... not anything that would make sense. And they didn't marry them off or make political alliances. Nope, noooo. Way too much effort. They just hoarded them. Plucked them off the street and said "Hey, you wanna join my house, you stallion?" ...and then, you know, they'd meander off to screw.

 

Just tons and tons of unassociated, unconnected noble families but they are all under one 'house'. Which prompts my 'Do you even know what nobility ARE?' point of contention any time I see someone bring it up. Even worse was the ratio of retainers to nobility was abysmal. In fact, there were several hundred players in some of the larger guilds... and I knew... 3 people in one that were not in and of themselves nobility. Three. One, two, three. Out of around two-hundred...

 

Nothing about either of those things is good. It's just blatantly pontificating your own character and their importance. I'm not saying all nobility are this way, I'm not saying the concept is inherently this way, but if it's not handled with a bit of common sense it's much easier to overblow it into all out 'mary-sue' territory than, say, your garden variety warrior. Nobility aren't the only ones to suffer from their either. Warlocks are the other major culprit of 'Mary Sue by Design'. Everything in lore denies that they should be allowed to exist alongside the rest of society, but, you know mechanics get in the way of that...

 

Anything can be a bad character, a bad design, or a bad concept. It's execution that's going to determine whether it is or not. But some require a bit more forethought to conduct in a meaningful way. That's my point more than 'You shouldn't do it ever because it is bad and you're bad if you do it'. No, it's not. But you should think about it, contextualize it, justify it, and bring it into alignment with the lore, the world, and most importantly the player base. Doing things just because you can IS bad design.

 

So I do apologize if I seem overly hostile on the matter. I don't mean to discourage or berate people that do aspire to such levels of competency as you described. It sounds absolutely lovely and I'd adore to see nobility being treated like, you know, goddamn nobility instead of conductors of orgies. I paint a grim picture because it's all I know, it's all I've seen, and I point to it and go 'Don't do that' out of love and a desire NOT to see the community go the way of Moon Guard, rather than to upset anyone who has well intentioned aspirations.

[Kismet]

A handful of you are much braver than I, because you have openly voiced things about the whole "nobility rarely handled with sensibility" thing in a way that was very appropriate. I didn't want to say anything myself because I was quite unsure that I could do so while still sounding open-minded and/or while lacking hostility towards the matter.

 

That aside, I suppose I could sum a lot of my feelings up as... Play what you want. No one can dictate what you do in that regard. However, I just wish people would do SOME research as opposed to none when it comes to jumping into these sorts of things and just making assumptions.

[Freemoon]

So I do apologize if I seem overly hostile on the matter. I don't mean to discourage or berate people that do aspire to such levels of competency as you described. It sounds absolutely lovely and I'd adore to see nobility being treated like, you know, goddamn nobility instead of conductors of orgies. I paint a grim picture because it's all I know, it's all I've seen, and I point to it and go 'Don't do that' out of love and a desire NOT to see the community go the way of Moon Guard, rather than to upset anyone who has well intentioned aspirations.

 

Don't feel too badly.  A lot of us that have been in similar situations have equally strong feelings against certain types, and even quality RP of those types can still not be enough to wash away the feelings formed by bad examples.

 

When I joined Star Wars Galaxies (within the first 6 months after launch), I would instantly flinch at the mention of slavery because in my experience up until that point, slavery RP was most often equal to something akin to bad romance novels or Moon Guard tavern orgies.  Nevermind the fact I knew there was slavery within the Star Wars lore, nevermind that a majority of these people were not playing the kind or RP that I had seen so heavily before.  

 

Even after getting involved in some very engaging RP with these people (both slaves and owners alike), I still to this day have to stop myself from twitching at the mention of slavery RP because what I saw before is so burned into my memory.

[K'dath]

Don't feel too badly.  A lot of us that have been in similar situations have equally strong feelings against certain types, and even quality RP of those types can still not be enough to wash away the feelings formed by bad examples.

 

When I joined Star Wars Galaxies (within the first 6 months after launch), I would instantly flinch at the mention of slavery because in my experience up until that point, slavery RP was most often equal to something akin to bad romance novels or Moon Guard tavern orgies.  Nevermind the fact I knew there was slavery within the Star Wars lore, nevermind that a majority of these people were not playing the kind or RP that I had seen so heavily before.  

 

Even after getting involved in some very engaging RP with these people (both slaves and owners alike), I still to this day have to stop myself from twitching at the mention of slavery RP because what I saw before is so burned into my memory.

 

slavery RP was most often equal to something akin to bad romance novels or Moon Guard tavern orgies.

 

Slave RP ... Moon Guard Tavern Orgies

 

 

Oh god. Don't take me back to that place man. I've seen some things in my time.

[Val]

I saw some pretty horrid things on Moon Guard, myself. It was... well. It was something, and that's about all I'm going to say about it.

 

I was on there for a long time =(

[LiadansWhisper]

I somehow managed to play two years on moon guard and never see this shit.  :bouncy:

[YesGood]

 

I'd encourage you to do what you want, but temper it with logic and a little bit of research before you put yourself in a situation where you'll be making objective proclamations.

 

Truth be told, the one thing that irked me more than anything was the games of 'noble swap' they various house guilds played. Like they were noble houses who... collected other nobles. Not retainers, not servants... not anything that would make sense. And they didn't marry them off or make political alliances. Nope, noooo. Way too much effort. They just hoarded them. Plucked them off the street and said "Hey, you wanna join my house, you stallion?" ...and then, you know, they'd meander off to screw.

 

Just tons and tons of unassociated, unconnected noble families but they are all under one 'house'. Which prompts my 'Do you even know what nobility ARE?' point of contention any time I see someone bring it up. Even worse was the ratio of retainers to nobility was abysmal. In fact, there were several hundred players in some of the larger guilds... and I knew... 3 people in one that were not in and of themselves nobility. Three. One, two, three. Out of around two-hundred...

 

Nothing about either of those things is good. It's just blatantly pontificating your own character and their importance. I'm not saying all nobility are this way, I'm not saying the concept is inherently this way, but if it's not handled with a bit of common sense it's much easier to overblow it into all out 'mary-sue' territory than, say, your garden variety warrior. Nobility aren't the only ones to suffer from their either. Warlocks are the other major culprit of 'Mary Sue by Design'. Everything in lore denies that they should be allowed to exist alongside the rest of society, but, you know mechanics get in the way of that...

 

Anything can be a bad character, a bad design, or a bad concept. It's execution that's going to determine whether it is or not. But some require a bit more forethought to conduct in a meaningful way. That's my point more than 'You shouldn't do it ever because it is bad and you're bad if you do it'. No, it's not. But you should think about it, contextualize it, justify it, and bring it into alignment with the lore, the world, and most importantly the player base. Doing things just because you can IS bad design.

 

So I do apologize if I seem overly hostile on the matter. I don't mean to discourage or berate people that do aspire to such levels of competency as you described. It sounds absolutely lovely and I'd adore to see nobility being treated like, you know, goddamn nobility instead of conductors of orgies. I paint a grim picture because it's all I know, it's all I've seen, and I point to it and go 'Don't do that' out of love and a desire NOT to see the community go the way of Moon Guard, rather than to upset anyone who has well intentioned aspirations.

 

I feel like I gave you the impression with the tale end of my rant that I was directing something at you. I wasn't. I was pretty sure you and I were on agreement for all the points that mattered. I totally feel you, and I'm glad it seems we -do- agree on most everything thus far. I mean, honestly, with nobles it's hard. If they don't have enough support there's just not a lot more of them to do than be noble-errants, wandering around... telling people they're nobles... that's about it. But with all the bad experiences and sometimes the bag stigma that goes hand in hand with RPing a noble, how else can you get started? Not all of us have the beginnings and willingness to work that the people in Ravenholdt did-- and even those blew over eventually.

 

I dunno. It's a catch twenty-two to me.

[Val]

I somehow managed to play two years on moon guard and never see this shit.  :bouncy:

 

I think it tends to depend on what side you were playing on and where you frequented, along with what circles you went to.

 

Honestly, I had a TON of friends that I played with and, quite honestly, thoroughly miss from Moon Guard. I'd give anything to find them again ;-;

[Freemoon]

Slave RP ... Moon Guard Tavern Orgies

Oh god. Don't take me back to that place man. I've seen some things in my time.

Sorry!  

 

I had several different metaphors in mind, but that just seemed the most apt.

 

I apologize for any traumatic experiences I may have unintentionally caused you to remember.  If it helps, watch this and let the randomness make you laugh until you forget about it.  

aZBsPSiS__U

 

I saw some pretty horrid things on Moon Guard, myself. It was... well. It was something, and that's about all I'm going to say about it.

 

I was on there for a long time =(

 

I somehow managed to play two years on moon guard and never see this shit.  :bouncy:

 

I think it tends to depend on what side you were playing on and where you frequented, along with what circles you went to.

 

Honestly, I had a TON of friends that I played with and, quite honestly, thoroughly miss from Moon Guard. I'd give anything to find them again ;-;

 

I rather miss many friends I had there as well, players from both sides that were not only fun to RP with, but just plain great friends to have known.  I've kept in contact with a couple, but the others pretty much disappeared for one reason or another (ranging from intending to take a break for a month and never coming back to some just suddenly never coming back, while others disappeared online entirely and their IM and email accounts sit untouched or expired).

 

We tried our best to avoid "that stuff", but it really was hard to miss in certain areas and at certain times.  My BE Hunter practically avoided the BE area except to tame a certain pet (and snag the non-combat pets back in the days before the combat pet system made owning more than one per account pretty pointless) and to do a few quests.

[Val]

 

I rather miss many friends I had there as well, players from both sides that were not only fun to RP with, but just plain great friends to have known.  I've kept in contact with a couple, but the others pretty much disappeared for one reason or another (ranging from intending to take a break for a month and never coming back to some just suddenly never coming back, while others disappeared online entirely and their IM and email accounts sit untouched or expired).

 

We tried our best to avoid "that stuff", but it really was hard to miss in certain areas and at certain times.  My BE Hunter practically avoided the BE area except to tame a certain pet (and snag the non-combat pets back in the days before the combat pet system made owning more than one per account pretty pointless) and to do a few quests.

 

I was Alliance for the most part and rarely ever went Horde. I can't really say why, to be honest. It just never clicked with me. I have heard many great and wonderful tales about Hordeside RP, though!

 

I have fond memories and even greater screenshots of my Nelf pre-Moon Guard back when I played on Silver Hand during Vanilla and BC.

[K'dath]

 

I rather miss many friends I had there as well, players from both sides that were not only fun to RP with, but just plain great friends to have known.  I've kept in contact with a couple, but the others pretty much disappeared for one reason or another (ranging from intending to take a break for a month and never coming back to some just suddenly never coming back, while others disappeared online entirely and their IM and email accounts sit untouched or expired).

 

We tried our best to avoid "that stuff", but it really was hard to miss in certain areas and at certain times.  My BE Hunter practically avoided the BE area except to tame a certain pet (and snag the non-combat pets back in the days before the combat pet system made owning more than one per account pretty pointless) and to do a few quests.

 

I was Alliance for the most part and rarely ever went Horde. I can't really say why, to be honest. It just never clicked with me. I have heard many great and wonderful tales about Hordeside RP, though!

 

I have fond memories and even greater screenshots of my Nelf pre-Moon Guard back when I played on Silver Hand during Vanilla and BC.

Horde RP was pretty starkly divided into:

Blood Elf RP and No Blood Elves Allowed RP. One was vastly better than the other, but included about, oh, 10% of the server. It was why I spent most of my closing days on my Druid rather than any of my geared/raid toons.

 

Sweeping generalizations and sarcasm aside, Horde RP was alright. It had some really, REALLY good, inspired guilds that did some really cool things... And then there was the very prolific 'sex slave brothel' guild. /PTSD

[Val]

 

I rather miss many friends I had there as well, players from both sides that were not only fun to RP with, but just plain great friends to have known.  I've kept in contact with a couple, but the others pretty much disappeared for one reason or another (ranging from intending to take a break for a month and never coming back to some just suddenly never coming back, while others disappeared online entirely and their IM and email accounts sit untouched or expired).

 

We tried our best to avoid "that stuff", but it really was hard to miss in certain areas and at certain times.  My BE Hunter practically avoided the BE area except to tame a certain pet (and snag the non-combat pets back in the days before the combat pet system made owning more than one per account pretty pointless) and to do a few quests.

 

I was Alliance for the most part and rarely ever went Horde. I can't really say why, to be honest. It just never clicked with me. I have heard many great and wonderful tales about Hordeside RP, though!

 

I have fond memories and even greater screenshots of my Nelf pre-Moon Guard back when I played on Silver Hand during Vanilla and BC.

Horde RP was pretty starkly divided into:

Blood Elf RP and No Blood Elves Allowed RP. One was vastly better than the other, but included about, oh, 10% of the server. It was why I spent most of my closing days on my Druid rather than any of my geared/raid toons.

 

Sweeping generalizations and sarcasm aside, Horde RP was alright. It had some really, REALLY good, inspired guilds that did some really cool things... And then there was the very prolific 'sex slave brothel' guild. /PTSD

 

I can certainly assure you that it went both ways. The Alliance side wasn't very different at all. You had your blatant ERP guilds and.. lol. There was that one lady that had pictures of herself and her dog. NSFW pictures.