RPing the Jobs

[Seriphyn]

Howdy RPC,

 

My thoughts recently have drifted to the plausibility of RPing one of the jobs/prestige classes and mentioning this in-character. I've only got a PLD, and for that storyline, the Captain of the Sultansworn is training adventurers in the arts of the paladin to become 'free paladins', so I OOC accept the the PLD job is RPable. IC, though, I regularly have my character challenge the validity of 'free paladins', accusing Captain Jenlyns of "selling out" Ul'dahn military tradition by training "any two-bit adventurer" in arts that have been protected by the Sultansworn for centuries. But that's purely IC, although OOC, a lot of people seem to playing paladins as generic Lawful Good Western paladins, rather than the Ul'dahn definition of it (challenging Jenlyn's dialogue as that character's own personal interpretation here). But that's another debate.

 

ANYWAY, I was wondering about the viability of RPing, say, a white mage, when AFAIK only Padjal can be white mages (I don't know the job storyline). The WHM RPers I know tend to ignore their class and simply say they RP conjurers, which I can buy into. Or a dragoon...again AFAIK, dragoons are simply "Ishgardian lancers". I know one character who actually RPs an elezen Ishgardian though, but what about claiming to be a dragoon without any ties to Ishgard? I did mean to have my character say "Nice All Saints' Wake costume" to someone RPing in the DRG AF2 armour, haha.

 

What are people's policies on this? Curious to hear everyone's thoughts.

[LiadansWhisper]

._.

 

I feel like the topic on White Mages has been done to death.

 

Technically White Magic is still forbidden.

 

Per the WHM storyline, the only White Mages are Padjal - and you are the lone exception to that rule in the last 5 or so centuries, and only because A-Towa-Kant, or whatever, specifically chose you to be his successor.

 

And because the Elementals are actively monitoring Succor - that's the magic White Mages use - and monitoring its use by non-White Mages (i.e. Conjurers), it's hard to believe that some could just up and start using it without the Elementals going, "Dafuq?"

 

But, people should play what they want to play.

 

As for my character, she's a Conjurer and if someone were to claim to be a White Mage, she'd think they were lying or insane.

[Seriphyn]

Is there a need for "._."? I wasn't just asking about White Mages, but any job that infers a certain degree of special snowflake.

[Tiergan]

Is there a need for "._."? I wasn't just asking about White Mages, but any job that infers a certain degree of special snowflake.

 

I think it was less a ._. at you specifically and more a ._. at the specific topic.  From what I've gathered, the White Mage lore is a sore spot for Seriphyn Liadan because of it's Super Snowflake Status.

 

I'm just glad both Paladin (and arguably Scholar) are both free from Special Snowflake lore problems.

[Seriphyn]

Oh, I'm not sore about anything, I was just wondering what jobs people consider RPable and what people don't. I don't know all the job lore especially.

[Sounsyy]

There are a lot of debates on this topic, and I'm sure this will spark some conflict here in a bit. But technically some jobs cannot be RP'd. According to lore. 

 

PLD - Paladins are pretty free to RP. Any character can become a Free Paladin. However, if you want to RP a true Paladin, you must be an Ul'dahn Sultansworn. You are bound and sworn under oath to serve the Ul royal family until you drop dead.

 

WAR - Difficult to RP strictly to lore, but can be done. Warriors died out a long time ago due to disuse. The only place in the world where the ancient traditions are still taught are in a small Hellsguardian village in Agalaitia's Spine. Now, in the story, there are numerous Hellsguard warriors who leave Agalatia's Spine (it's actually a huge part of Hellsguard lore that many leave the tribe to seek fortunes in Eorzea)  and appear throughout Eorzea. So it is entirely possible you ran across one of these WAR and somehow convinced him to teach you his ways. Either that or you made the treacherous hike to Agalatia's Spine (or sailed there) and learned the ways from the masters.

 

MNK - According to lore, these were all but wiped out by the King of Ruin in 1552. The Fist of Rhalgr (the MNKs) were accused of plotting against the King of Ala Mhigo. So he surrounded the temple (Star Wars Revenge of the Sith style) and slaughters all the MNKs within and burns the villages surrounding the temple. Also outlawing the worship of Rhalgr. While the vast majority of the Monks were killed, we do see in-lore evidence that there were some that escaped this fate. So very easy to say you've met one or were trained by one or are one on their journey to unlock their Chakra.

 

DRG - Very tricky. According to lore, there is only ONE, count em, ONE, Azure Dragoon chosen by Nidhogg's Eye every generation. In the DRG storyline it is stated that the choosing of a second Azure Dragoon (your character) during the same career of the first was unheard of. Never happened before. (Alberic and Estien don't count. Alberic laid down his lance and renounced his title of Dragoon the day he allowed Ferndale to burn. So Nidhogg's Eye chose the lone survivor of Ferndale, Estien.) Now, the Holy See has a ritual initiation of each Azure Dragoon. They forge a special set of magical armor that helps repel the influences of dragons and they craft a Gae Bolg specifically for each Dragoon. Without being a Chosen One by Nidhogg's Eye and the Holy See, you are not technically, according to lore, a true Dragoon. Even our character in game does not become a true dragoon. He/she has to steal the old armor off of other dead Dragoons and takes a Gae Bolg that belonged to another. If your character wants to do something like this, and then call themselves a Dragoon, that is totally plausible because it's what our in-game character is doing. However, you are not a true Dragoon.

 

BRD - Very easy to become. Bards are singing, storytelling, ale drinking, harp stringing archers at their finest. There are plenty of bards running around in the world. However, what makes Jehantel famous, and why a lot of people confuse him as The Bard, is because he has the very exclusive title of Godsbow. Now Godsbow was a title first given to Gilbert, a very famous bard from about 500 years ago who slew 7 Ixali Chieftans with a single arrow. The Gridanians crafted this archer the first Artemis Bow (bowharp) so that he could play his music and slay people and look dang graceful doing it. The original Artemis Bow was kept in the God's Quiver (Archer's Guild) after Gilbert passed, until it was stolen in an Ixali raid. Since Gilbert's time, replicas of the original Artemis bow were made and traditionally used by Bard's given the Godsbow title. (Ie in game you don't receive the Godsbow title until you complete the Relic Reborn quest for Bard.)

 

BLM - With the total decimation of the Thaumaturgy and Black Mage lore of 1.0, this job is now super easy to become. Ugh. Now, in 1.0 this job was FORBIDDEN because in the 5th Astral Era, driven mages of both Black and White began competing with each other to create the latest, greatest, biggest, and baddest magic the world had ever seen. Now, while it was ultimately White Magic that ushered in the Sixth Umbral Era, Black Magic was a major contributing factor and the practice was lost, forbidden, and hidden away from the world. Now, several beastmen family lines kept up the traditions of Black Magic in secret. And about 100~120ish years before the start of the main story, a young thaumaturge named Ququruka uncovered the lost arts and dedicated his life to studying the art. It ultimately ended badly for him... HOWEVER, in ARR, the leaders of the Thaumaturgy Guild are all Black Mage brothers. So clearly the art is no longer forbidden. Probably set in motion by the events of the BLM quest in 1.0. Now, you cannot be taught the art of Black Magic, you must learn it through self study and dedication and a certain soul-selling to the Void, but it can be done by any Thaumaturge who is dedicated and has sufficient stores of aether.

 

WHM - If you are wanting to go 100% by the lore as written by the creators, then NO, you cannot become a White Mage. During the 5th Astral Era the Elementals taught the children of Eorzea Succor in order to balance out the chaos created by Black Mages. However, the need for greater and greater magics only tipped the scales towards more chaos. Succor was abused and the Twelveswood came to harm as a result. So the Elementals caused a deluge and flood that washed the world clean of the taint of magic. The Wood grew and rose from the ground and none were allowed entrance. Fastforward to Gelmorra, Elezen and Hyur make a pact, they live under the twelveswood for a while trying to commune with the Elementals. This bond of fellowship probably inspired the Elementals to consider giving them a second chance. The Elementals sent moogles to communicate with the Gelmorrans and they were taught Conjury. Which is an abstract form of Succor. It is basically the ability to manipulate the aether in Nature. Elementals are the Aether in Nature, so this mastery of Conjury would allow communication. Now, the Pact of Gelmorra was struck between the Gelmorrans and the Elementals. The Gelmorrans could live among the Wood, but they could not ever allow the Wood to come to harm, they could never abuse the magic gifted to them, and they could never take from the Wood in excess without giving back. They were meant only to heal the Wood as it's caretakers. Around this time, the Elementals also blessed select families of the original Conjurers. These Conjurer's children became Padjal. The Padjal race were physically altered by the aether so that when the child reached puberty, their bodies would stop growing and they would grow horns instead. As they grew, their horns would grow, but their bodies would remain children forever. This prevented them from breeding or really having promiscuous thoughts away from being caretakers or channels of the Elementals. These Padjal were entrusted with the true power of Succor. They had to keep it safe and secret and hidden, lest the world abuse it again. That is why only Padjal are White Mages, and the 2.0 story is very loose in it's reasoning for even giving the in-game character the means of Succor. Because A-Towa-Cant, a very eccentric Padjal, chooses you to be his successor specifically. At least in the 1.0 storyline, you meet an actual Elemental named Oha-Sok, who gives you her own power so that you can use Succor. She also gives up her physical body to become the Healer's Robe AF body and grants you protection and a source of succor that way. So, very hard to replicate such things in the RP world without breaking the law of the lore.

 

And I haven't done all of the job story quests for SMN and SCH so I won't pretend to know those.

 

 

Now, like I said in my last post on this topic:

It ultimately boils down to a choice each roleplayer has to make. Do you:

A) Respect the lore for this world as imagined by the creators, or

B) Ignore the lore to some degree or entirely in favor of doing things the way you want to do them.

[Naunet]

Honestly, fuck the lore wherever it disallows a player from roleplaying a class you can choose to be in-game. Restricting the lore behind jobs such that only ONE SPESHUL SNOWFLAKE UBER GUY/LADY can become them is quite seriously the dumbest "lore" move I've ever seen an MMO make and it doesn't deserve being given the time of day.

[Jomoru]

The class guilds are not the only methods in Eorzea to obtain skills, they are rather the most open legal methods. There are for example plenty of Cnj type mobs running around in the beast tribes(similar with Thm), while one could argue "game mechanics" the blm quests out and out have you join up with a cabal of would be black mages who are members of the beast tribes.

 

Now with that being the case a non Gridania trained CNJ who illegally gains access to white magic could be an interesting concept. I wouldn't suggest it for everyone but it seems lore possible.  The character probably should keep on the downlow when in the shroud though.

 

If one wanted to have a more legal type I'm more than willing to accept that the WHM quest line was the first of a new breed necissary for the dawn of a new Astral era. It brings it closer in like to SMN, SCH, BRD, WR etc.

 

 

Dragoon of course.. has a much more interesting potential Lore sidestreet. Ishgard could only field one or two Azure Dragoons... but Dravinia could easily field those who call upon the dragon's power without it being stolen.

[Seriphyn]

Incredible post by Sounsyy, thank you.

 

To Naunet's post of "fuck the lore"...well, I agree with the classes, but the jobs I respectfully disagree. To compare, the very word 'samurai' is associated with the nation of Japan in the real world. There's no such thing as a samurai of France or a samurai of the Congo. Similarly, in FFXIV, the words 'paladin' and 'dragoon' are associated with the nations of Ul'dah and Ishgard respectively, despite whatever real-life origins these words have (words come from somewhere after all). IMO, claiming to be a paladin and not acknowledging the lore behind it is very similar to someone claiming to be an Imam in service to the Church of England.

 

Ofc, people can RP what they want, true, but I'd expect I'll be giving these people a hard time in-character. There are bigger concerns than bothering someone and antagonizing people OOC over such things

[Tiergan]

Oh, I'm not sore about anything, I was just wondering what jobs people consider RPable and what people don't. I don't know all the job lore especially.

 

DERP!  I meant Liadan, not you.  I should not use the forums before morning coffee.  Apologies!

[FreelanceWizard]

Based on the initial job quest for SMN and SCH, if you're going strictly by those:

 

Summoner -- Easy, if you hold to the main scenario quest too. All it requires is that you become attuned to a Primal's energies without being Tempered (most commonly by defeating it in battle), then summon and defeat its egi to bend it to your will. Any Arcanist with the Echo can, therefore, be a Summoner.

 

Scholar -- The quest has you uncovering a set of tablets from Nym that describe the art at the behest of a marauder of the Coral Tower. At the same time, you end up freeing from a locked box one of the faeries of Nym, which is apparently quite a rare thing. So, it's tricky for more than one person to be a Scholar if you're playing strictly to the job quest, as while multiple tablets and documents could be found, the faeries themselves are seemingly rare.

 

IMO, I think people should play what they want to play, especially since the written lore ("there's only one dragoon") and the game system abstraction of lore ("anyone with enough time and effort can be a dragoon") differ so severely. We all pick and choose pieces of the main scenario quest and its lore that work with our characters; for instance, some choose not to have the Echo, even though the MSQ makes it abundantly clear that many people have it and certainly all PCs do. Conversely, almost every RPer dispenses with the "you're the personal envoy of your city-state" part of the MSQ, because it's far too centered on a single character. On that basis, I don't see any reason why people can't view the job quests similarly -- take what's generic or can be easily made generic from the quest if desired, then fill in the blanks with what works narratively. You can even take this one step further and view the job quests in the same way as the non-generic parts of the main scenario quest. In this model, the job quests are something that Some Great Hero did, and in doing so, opened the doors to a revival of the job through other means.

 

That said, it just seems sensible that people who have jobs that have been historically forbidden (Black Mage, White Mage) or extremely restricted (Dragoon, Scholar) would keep their abilities quiet to avoid all the IC consequences that can come about from that. From zealots wanting to "purify the heretic" to supplicants begging for aid, advertising you have some rare power seems imprudent. I'm not saying that's how it has to be played, but it seems to me that a newly minted White Mage (through whatever means) wouldn't go advertising that fact.

 

In practice, I don't RP any of the jobs. My character's an especially talented and skilled user of magic. That her spells may have similarities to those vaunted abilities of the legendary Jobs of Eras Past is chalked up to coincidence.

[Ildur]

Dragoon and White Mage are the Jobs with the most trouble for roleplaying if you want to stick to the lore. As Naunet said, I think that if the game mechanics allow you to be a certain class, then you free to be it on your characters. This is a clear case of the developers trying to bake the cake ("White Magic/Dragooning is, like, super speshiul!") and then eat it ("You, our players, are super speshiul!").

 

But there's been enough of that.

 

For all the other classes, Sounsyy has covered them. I will chime in to talk about Summoners and Schoalrs, though: EDIT: Or FreeLanceWizard will come in, do it before I do and better.

 

SMN: The canonical storyline has a Miqo'te woman actively tell you about summoning and teach you about it. The only stated requeriment for summoning is that you have to be 'dowsed' in a Primal's essence, in this case by defeating them. Mechanicall, your summons are locked until you complete the corresponding Primal fight. This tells us summoning can and is being teached to Arcanists as long as they were present in a fight against a Primal, a thing which, in itself, is also inside the realm of possibility as Primals are constantly summoned by the beast tribes.

 

SCH: You become a Scholar by finding a fairy (and the soul crystal) locked inside a Nymian chest (or something like that). The questline is pretty much all about running around trying to unlock your fairy's memories and being taught about Nymian tactics by an erudite marauder. It is quite safe to assume that one could study the spells and learn to use them even without a fairy.

 

The only thing to keep in mind is that all Jobs require a Soul Crystal. We know they exist canonically as you are not only given one in the storylines, but they feature prominently in some of them (like Warrior's). How you acquire one is up to you.

[Naunet]

To Naunet's post of "fuck the lore"...well, I agree with the classes, but the jobs I respectfully disagree. To compare, the very word 'samurai' is associated with the nation of Japan in the real world. There's no such thing as a samurai of France or a samurai of the Congo. Similarly, in FFXIV, the words 'paladin' and 'dragoon' are associated with the nations of Ul'dah and Ishgard respectively, despite whatever real-life origins these words have (words come from somewhere after all). IMO, claiming to be a paladin and not acknowledging the lore behind it is very similar to someone claiming to be an Imam in service to the Church of England.

 

Restricting a certain class (job, whatever you want to call it) to a particular region is completely different from the lengths Squeenix has gone and is totally fine. It's no different than the backstory all Death Knights had to at least initially follow in WoW. It gets absurd when only one person ever is allowed to actually be that class/job, even though the game allows as many people who want to level it to do so.

[esperkitty]

As for dragoons, the way a buddy and I rp'd it (and I still do, since he's left the game seemingly permanently), is that there are more than one Dragoons. Doing the quests in Coerthas proves this. There is, however, only one Azure Dragoon (special snowflake for the PC). Neither of us were such. We were chosen to be dragoons, but aren't uber-uber dragoons.

 

Our characters did become accomplished enough to receive our Drachen mail, and mine enough to earn her Gae Bolg. Otherwise, we were just ordinary dragoons who were a little more accomplished than your typical foot-soldier type dragoon. Hope that helps!

[Ildur]

I use the interpretation that Dragoons refer to a special brand of knights of Ishgard whose combat tactics can be summarized as "I will jump to that dragon's back and stab him to death. No, I don't care it's flying. See ya!"

[Naunet]

there are more than one Dragoons.  Doing the quests in Coerthas proves this.  There is, however, only one Azure Dragoon (special snowflake for the PC).

 

This is how I've interpreted the dragoon story, as well. Alongside Ildur's excellent description!

[LiadansWhisper]

Tiergan is exactly right - it's just a sore spot for me shaking my fist at a dev team that I honestly don't think actually thought about the kind of scenario they were setting up.  It totally works in a regular FF game.  In an MMO?  It's balls.  Horrible balls.

 

The other information in this thread is really awesome, too.

 

And, Ildur, best description of Dragoons ever.  I've always thought those dudes were crazy!

[Sounsyy]

Honestly, fuck the lore wherever it disallows a player from roleplaying a class you can choose to be in-game. Restricting the lore behind jobs such that only ONE SPESHUL SNOWFLAKE UBER GUY/LADY can become them is quite seriously the dumbest "lore" move I've ever seen an MMO make and it doesn't deserve being given the time of day.

It gets absurd when only one person ever is allowed to actually be that class/job, even though the game allows as many people who want to level it to do so.

 

We have very different opinions on this. I'll spoiler my last post on this topic below if you want to see another viewpoint. 

 

 

I think a lot of the grandeur of the FFXIV Jobs is overlooked by the RP community because the lore behind them is inconvenient. But let's break down what the classic FF jobs are in the XIV lore. They are the professions of Legend, many of them lost for thousands of years. They are special snowflakes in their own right, and why shouldn't they be? If everyone could walk around as an Azure Dragoon then there would be absolutely no point in having a beautiful legend and richly crafted lore behind the title. You lose the gravity of the job. Yeah, dude, I got the Godsbow out of the cereal box!

 

 

But this debate over what jobs can and can't be used in RP according to lore has no right answer that will satisfy everyone. The undeniable fact is that certain aspects of the game are not RP friendly. Because while the lore in this game is beautiful, there is a huge population of players who will play this game and never know it. Never even care. So the game itself must stand alone without aligning 100% to the lore. A game needs a healer, regardless of whether or not only one such healer should exist in lore. 

 

I hear a lot people complain about how the story and lore support a lone Hero viewpoint in a Massively Multiplayer game world. But when you think about Final Fantasy, which games come first to mind? FFVII maybe. VI. FFIX. X. XIII. Final Fantasy has a rich tradition of single player games that are small ensemble or singular hero based. All FFXIV is doing is staying true to that tradition. They're keeping to the wonderful hero-based storylines that captivated us and made us raging FF lunatic fans in the first place. I honestly believe, if they had not done the lore in this way, (which I personally believe FFXIV has some of the most wonderful lore) the game would really feel just like any other MMO and not a Final Fantasy MMO. But maybe that's just me?

 

 

 

 

 

As for dragoons, the way a buddy and I rp'd it (and I still do, since he's left the game seemingly permanently), is that there are more than one Dragoons.  Doing the quests in Coerthas proves this.  There is, however, only one Azure Dragoon (special snowflake for the PC).  Neither of us were such.  We were chosen to be dragoons, but aren't uber-uber dragoons.

 

Actually really glad you brought this up! I had almost forgotten. There is a distinction between dragoon and Azure Dragoon that I forgot to mention in my post. I should edit that to make that more clear and not confuse people. 

 

There are lots of "Dragoons" in Ishgard. It's the title given to any Knight of Ishgard that slays a dragon and can prove it. So yeah, anyone who slays a dragon and brings forth proof to the Holy See will be awarded the honorable title of Dragoon. Now Azure Dragoons are the special snowflakes that are only chosen once a generation by Nidhogg's Eye. 

 

Dragoon of course.. has a much more interesting potential Lore sidestreet. Ishgard could only field one or two Azure Dragoons... but Dravinia could easily field those who call upon the dragon's power without it being stolen.

 

I think this is an interesting avenue. However, the XIV definition of a Dragoon is Dragon Slayer, not a person who has a dragon's power. So technically having their power still wouldn't make them a dragoon. 

 

The difference between the Azure Dragoon is that Nidhogg's Eye chooses them and exposes them to the full extent of a dragon's power and influence. The reason Dragoon's must wear the Drachen Mail is so that they do not succumb to this influence. So an Azure Dragoon has the power of the dragons, yes, but it is a weight to bear, not a gift. It strengthen and empowers them, but it also corrupts. As seen in the DRG storyline. But they are first and foremost Dragon Slayers. And Azure Dragoons are destined to defeat Nidhogg. So seeing a Dravanian dragon slayer empowered by Nidhogg's good eye would be a little weird. But it's an interesting route to explore since we get to see very little of the war between Ishgard and Dravania.

[Naunet]

I hear a lot people complain about how the story and lore support a lone Hero viewpoint in a Massively Multiplayer game world. But when you think about Final Fantasy, which games come first to mind? FFVII maybe. VI. FFIX. X. XIII. Final Fantasy has a rich tradition of single player games that are small ensemble or singular hero based. All FFXIV is doing is staying true to that tradition. They're keeping to the wonderful hero-based storylines that captivated us and made us raging FF lunatic fans in the first place. I honestly believe, if they had not done the lore in this way, (which I personally believe FFXIV has some of the most wonderful lore) the game would really feel just like any other MMO and not a Final Fantasy MMO. But maybe that's just me?

 

 

It might just be you, or just be me, but tbh, I don't give a rat's patootie how "Final Fantasy" this MMO is. It's an MMO, not a single player RPG. I never played any Final Fantasy games before this, but even if I had, I don't think this would change my opinion. It makes zero sense to tell roleplayers they cannot rp as a particular class (job, whatever you want to call it) when they damn well can level up a white mage, alongside the fifty bazillion other people who choose to level up a white mage.

 

I think this is a silly thing to hang one's "This is what it means to be Final Fantasy" hat on, as certainly the job system, or the themes of the jobs, or the aesthetic and music, or the common monsters, or any number of other things are far more fundamental to the game and are arguably more "Final Fantasy" than a very single player-only friendly story (which is shared by all single player RPGs ever in the history of single player RPGs).

[Dakki]

Personally, I'm a very open-minded RPer. The only class I perhaps take exception to is White Mage, for reasons explained before (White Magic is forbidden, your character is the exception outside the Padjal). Most classes, I find, have ways of roleplaying them which aren't the conventional way the storyline tells you.  As long as the roleplayer can provide an adequate story for reason, no problems what they play.

(As long as they don't play the bastard Son of Bahamut, brought forth from a virgin's loins to wreak havoc upon Eorzea, or some crap like that...)

[Ildur]

I think this is a silly thing to hang one's "This is what it means to be Final Fantasy" hat on (...)

 

Screw all those. What really seems to define Final Fantasy, based on their own rabid fans (the ones in the official forums, I mean) is arbitrary restrictions. That is what Final Fantasy means!

[Sounsyy]

It might just be you, or just be me, but tbh, I don't give a rat's patootie how "Final Fantasy" this MMO is. It's an MMO, not a single player RPG. I never played any Final Fantasy games before this, but even if I had, I don't think this would change my opinion. It makes zero sense to tell roleplayers they cannot rp as a particular class (job, whatever you want to call it) when they damn well can level up a white mage, alongside the fifty bazillion other people who choose to level up a white mage.

 

I think this is a silly thing to hang one's "This is what it means to be Final Fantasy" hat on, as certainly the job system, or the themes of the jobs, or the aesthetic and music, or the common monsters, or any number of other things are far more fundamental to the game and are arguably more "Final Fantasy" than a very single player-only friendly story (which is shared by all single player RPGs ever in the history of single player RPGs).

 

You've got gameplay and you've got story. Very separate things. You need a healing class. You need a tank class. You need damage dealers. It's the holy trinity. In a story, you don't necessarily need these things. You have people RPing lancers who face 1v1 against beasts they could never in game. You can gear your ARC/BRD to never miss an enemy, but if you never missed in story you'd be godmoding. And you don't see any NPCs mastering multiple Jobs, yet that is a key selling point of this MMO.

 

But there's a reason the jobs are created so exclusive. Because they weren't always in the game. When this game started and the original lore was written there was only the classes. In order to make this game an actual Final Fantasy game, the classic FF jobs were written in. Now, how do you explain their absence in the game before without retconning the whole thing? You make them ancient, you make them legendary, you make them secret, you make them forbidden, you make them exclusive. There's only so many options. Otherwise they wouldn't be special and the whole point was that Eorzea needed special. They needed something more powerful than what they had to stand against the threat of annihilation. 

 

That's really what the game is about, in-game and out of game. It's about a company that needed to bring Final Fantasy back into their MMO or else sink. What's more Final Fantasy than the original jobs from the original games? The games that actually succeeded and we fans think highly on. You'll find near unanimous love for FF IV, VI, VII, VIII, and IX. But you'll find a much more varied response to the later games like X, X-2, XII, XIII. Games that broke away from FF traditions to meet modern standards. 

 

Now, I know you don't give a rat's patootie about all the reasons behind it. As I've said time and again it comes down to whether you wish to respect the lore as written by the creators or not. Neither is right or wrong, but the game lore isn't changing, so you've got to make that choice.

 

In my own personal opinion, if you say to hell with the lore because it's just inconvenient, then you aren't role playing or being a role player. You're fanfictioning, which is something quite different. Isn't the point of roleplaying to limit yourself into the role/social norms of a character as part of a predetermined story? So choose a role.

 

You want to be a healer? You can drop yourself into the role of the conjurer. A mage that manipulates the aether around them and upon meditation crafts a spell from that aether. Drop into the role of a Chirurgeon. Healers of modern medicine. But I wanna be a White Mage! A user of Succor. Actually not that hard to come up with ways to become one that don't break lore. 

 

Anyone remember Brother Morys from 1.0 CNJ quest? An Ishgardian boy lost in the Wood, accrued Greenwrath and became a servant of the Elementals. He lost his memories and became a powerful conjurer. The Elementals gave him a gift. Combine that with the 1.0 WHM quest. Oha-Sok bestows upon you the power of Succor, even gives up his own body to become your very robes. So in two minutes I just came up with a character that was taken by the Elementals and became a Wildling. He now heals the Wood as he wanders it, a lost soul. There's several directions I can go to from here. What other ways? There's the obvious roleplay a Padjal. A-Towa-Cant wandered Eorzea healing the land and exploring everywhere he could. What's to say your Padjal can't either. A-Towa-Cant also had an apprentice. That apprentice could have had one too. So long as it's kept secret, and un-abused, the Elementals won't destroy the world. You can be an Elemental in human physical form. It's never happened in game, but Elementals take all forms in 1.0 storyline. One becomes your robes. And just because you are one, doesn't mean you go around telling people. 

 

 

 

Maybe this will get me some hate, but I urge roleplayers to not ignore the lore. It's beautiful and it's there for a reason. Restrictive, if you're lazy, but all good stories revolve around extraordinary people who do things many others can't. You don't have to be a special snowflake to make a story-worthy character though. You just have to use your imagination. And the more you try to stick to the lore to the best of your knowledge, the more incredible others will find your story.

[Seriphyn]

Right! I apologize, I misread.

 

I agree, I actually thought all job stories would have been akin to the Paladin questline, where adventurers can become Free Paladins. I had no idea you become the Azure Dragoon of Ishgard...certainly, perhaps the Holy See is training a "foreign legion" of its lancers for help against the dragon threat. 

 

My guess is that they had different writers for each questline, and that having all the job lines as "Long-established title is being trained openly to adventurers" would be too repetitive (this is from Squeenix's angle that is)

 

EDIT: Gosh, i still don't know how to quote in this forum. This post was a direct reply to Naunet's #13 post.

 

EDIT2: Derp, this went onto a second page. I second Sounsyy once again. Personally, I consider myself quite proudly an Ul'dahn RPer (waa, Ottoman/Arabic city as the largest city in-game right now, and not some generic European city? yes please!). Paladins are, historically, Ul'dahn...while my character will always antagonize free paladins (not Sultansworn of course), if anything, this is more to explore the lore and history of Ul'dah, and not criticize the player's RP choices. "Captain Jenlyns says anyone of pure spirit can be a paladin! Meanings change over time!" vs "Captain Jenlyns' effete words means nothing to six centuries worth of history! The only true paladins are Sultansworn!" etc

[raindrops]

I really, really like Sounsy's take on the WHM problem. They're all creative solutions that keep the actual job as unique as the lore intended because to use them you're building your character around being a white mage, but just saying 'oh and she'he happens to be a white mage nbd.

 

Love or hate the lore, it's there and to just plain ignore it is really, really inconsiderate to fellow RPers. It's not impossible to work around it, and the restrictions can create some really interesting and unique characters who might have otherwise been 'just a white mage'.

[Ildur]

You've got gameplay and you've got story. Very separate things.

 

Sounsyy, you keep thinking of ARR as a singleplayer game. But it isn't. It's an MMO and as such its lore should, ideally, be designed to allow each and all player characters to coexist. While we surely can't expect Squee or any developer to make special unique quests for each character, we can expect them to not resort to stupid "You are the CHOSEN ONE!" anthics that are actually pretty damn tiresome even in single player games. Tiresome even if they are traditional.

 

I like my story informing my gameplay, though. There are some mechanical restrictions that you can simply handwave as not part of lore because the game can't do it all and has to keep focused. This is the reason Black Mages don't get a torch spell even though they can bombard enemies with a barrage of fireballs.

If your story is not going to inform your gameplay, your game is doing something wrong. It's going to be counterintuitive, just as the White Mage lore is counterintuitive because they are unique and super speshiul yet everyone can be mechanically one. This is an incoherency and inconsistency on a meta level that has to be salvaged for the lore to not confuse the hell out of a lot of people and work on a massive scale.

 

That's really what the game is about, in-game and out of game. It's about a company that needed to bring Final Fantasy back into their MMO or else sink. What's more Final Fantasy than the original jobs from the original games? The games that actually succeeded and we fans think highly on. You'll find near unanimous love for FF IV, VI, VII, VIII, and IX. But you'll find a much more varied response to the later games like X, X-2, XII, XIII. Games that broke away from FF traditions to meet modern standards. 

 

This is irrelevant to the roleplaying scene of an MMO.

 

Now, I know you don't give a rat's patootie about all the reasons behind it. As I've said time and again it comes down to whether you wish to respect the lore as written by the creators or not. Neither is right or wrong, but the game lore isn't changing, so you've got to make that choice.

 

I would argue that, yes, one is wrong and the other is right. The one wrong is the one that makes no sense. Respecting lore has no bearing if it is not coherent with its own game. Maybe it's coherent with the Author's designs and his previous work, but that means nothing for our roleplay. The lore is there to provide the setting, to provide a consistent and coherent world for the players to live in. I do agree that breaking it is bad, but only when doing so threatens the world coherency or consistency (like, for example, saying that my character is Bahamut's best pal). In the case of Jobs, we have that the lore itself is threatening its own coherency by implying there can only be only one White Mage even though the gameplay directly contradicts it. Story needs to inform gameplay: if White Mages are so special, they should BE special. You can tell me that White Magic is forbidden and that there's only one White Mage besides the Padjal, but while you tell me I'm going to point to every single character. I'm going to show you how many White Mages there really are. The ancient axiom of "Show, don't tell".

 

In my own personal opinion, if you say to hell with the lore because it's just inconvenient, then you aren't role playing or being a role player. You're fanfictioning, which is something quite different. Isn't the point of roleplaying to limit yourself into the role/social norms of a character as part of a predetermined story? So choose a role.

 

You can roleplay and make fan fiction with it. It is, after all, fiction made by fans. If you are a fan and you roleplay, then you are making fan fiction and you are still roleplaying. What you really meant was: "You are not following lore to the letter and, as the Word of the Author is Holy, your roleplaying has no worth nor validity to me. Therefore, I will use a term I find despective to call you, showing you my dissaproval."

 

Also, I have another interpretation of what roleplay in an MMO means: it's cooperative storytelling. And I can't form a story if the setting and its game are giving me mixed messages.

 

-snip- So in two minutes I just came up with a character that was taken by the Elementals and became a Wildling.

 

That all smells like fan fiction: you are recycling canon to make up a 'new' character. And you said that fan fiction isn't roleplay. Though I haven't played 1.0, so I dunno. It's just the smell, I guess.

 

Maybe this will get me some hate, but I urge roleplayers to not ignore the lore. It's beautiful and it's there for a reason. Restrictive, if you're lazy, but all good stories revolve around extraordinary people who do things many others can't. You don't have to be a special snowflake to make a story-worthy character though. You just have to use your imagination. And the more you try to stick to the lore to the best of your knowledge, the more incredible others will find your story.

 

It's beautiful when it works and provides a coherent world. When it doesn't, it stinks and we have to work around it. Imagine if the game allowed us to pick Padjal as a race, but then told us that Padjal are very, very rare and that YOU are the ONLY Padjal that has been born outside of the Shorud. Wouldn't it be a bit weird when you run into other three hundred players who want to be Padjal in character, too?

No, lore has to move aside for the sake of coherency and fun. White Mage lore makes no sense in the MMO setting. It does in a singleplayer game, but ARR isn't that. It's first an MMO and secondly a Final Fantasy game. The same way an italian is first a human and -then- a citizen of Italy.