New jobs for current classes

[TheLastCandle]

I want a greatsword wielding class, but I don't particularly give a damn whether or not it has DRK as a possible job. I just want two-handed swords.

[Kailia]

I think what I'd like to see is follows:

 

Conjurer

Green Mage - A dps class built around the wand and shield. A melee caster that uses elemental debuffs to damage enemies. A balanced choice much like the arcanists who get summoner for dps, and scholar for healing. Ideal subclass: Gladiator

 

Thaumaturge

Red Mage - A no brainer. A class that uses both black and white magic. Ideal subclass: Conjurer

 

 

Gladiator

Dark Knight - Lot of people want this. Would be a fantastic opposite for paladins. And no brainer what subclass for it: Thaumaturge

 

 

Marauder

Berserker - The class shifts from being a tank, to being an outright AOE DPS. Berserkers also need to move rather quickly so possible subclass: Pugilist

 

 

 

Archer

Musketeer - Drop the bow, hello musket! Sub Class: Lancer

 

 

Lancer

Beastmaster - A class that takes control of a beast to use against enemies. Obvious subclass: Arcanist

 

 

 

Pugilist

Ninja - A master of shadow and assassination. But throwing stars as well. Subclass: Archer

[Dakki]

I think what I'd like to see is follows:

 

Conjurer

Green Mage - A dps class built around the wand and shield. A melee caster that uses elemental debuffs to damage enemies. A balanced choice much like the arcanists who get summoner for dps, and scholar for healing. Ideal subclass: Gladiator

 

Thaumaturge

Red Mage - A no brainer. A class that uses both black and white magic. Ideal subclass: Conjurer

 

 

Gladiator

Dark Knight - Lot of people want this. Would be a fantastic opposite for paladins. And no brainer what subclass for it: Thaumaturge

 

 

Marauder

Berserker - The class shifts from being a tank, to being an outright AOE DPS. Berserkers also need to move rather quickly so possible subclass: Pugilist

 

 

 

Archer

Musketeer - Drop the bow, hello musket! Sub Class: Lancer

 

 

Lancer

Beastmaster - A class that takes control of a beast to use against enemies. Obvious subclass: Arcanist

 

 

 

Pugilist

Ninja - A master of shadow and assassination. But throwing stars as well. Subclass: Archer

 

I mostly agree with your choices, however there are some I would raise issue with.

 

1. Green Mage sounds like a solid idea, but may I ask how a wand can be used for melee attacks? Those things are effectively twigs with inherent magical properties and would be liable to snap rather easily. Of course, they could always introduce maces, then this would work

 

(NOTE: I prefer Geomancer to Green Mage, but it's a cool idea.)

 

2. The Musketeer. This might be me being totally derpy, but was I misinformed when I was told Musketeer would be a standalone starter class? (Plus, if it was a job requiring a soul crystal, I would rather they introduce Thief as a base class and pair Thief with Archer for Musketeer. Due to the whole "scout-like" Musketeer concept.)

 

3. This isn't so much an issue as wondering why you chose the combination to make the class. When you mentioned the Beastmaster, I was rather baffled as to why you chose Arcanist to accompany Lancer. Now whilst Arcanist have pets, granted, Carbuncle and the Egis (cool band name, huh?) are nothing like the pets that a Beastmaster would have at their disposal.

 

Then there's the whole thing of Beastmasters historically either having an axe or a bow. For this reason, I would rather Beastmaster is Marauder/Archer to unlock. (Whilst on the topic, I would love Ranger to make an appearance, as someone mentioned before. The antithesis of the Bard, using de-buffs, etc. Archer and Lancer would work nicely for Ranger.)

 

Pointless flaw picking aside! (I meant nothing by it, just constructive criticism.)

 

The one class I would love love love love LOVE to see would be the Puppetmaster. It's a rather underrated class as a whole, not many people listing it as their favourite, but it was by far mine. If they added the Thief class as a base class (please!), then you could mix Thief and Thaumaturge or even Thief and Arcanist to make this class work.

 

Imagine the storyline! You must battle for control over your automaton before it controls you! ;D Well... Maybe not that. But y'know. GIEF PUP.

[Norna]

Musketeer/Gunner is already planned to be the third class of Limsa Lominsa. I would guess one of its jobs will be Corsair. I would also venture to suggest Blue Mage (think X-2 Gun Mage), with shooting abilities that copies an enemy ability and then one that fires it.

 

Red Mage is a job that Yoshi-P wants to put in, and currently he suggested that it'll either get a new base class, or it will be a super-job by combining two jobs. If it goes with a new base class, I think a magically inclined Fencer class (that uses rapiers) would work.

 

If Dark Knight will be based on Cecil, it will use sword and shield. So it will probably branch from Gladiator. If so, it will probably have stances/traits that make actions consume HP/decrease max HP by ??% in exchange for DPS. It will maybe be a hybrid Tank/DPS job (Yoshi-P spoke of hybrid roles in the future).

 

From Conjurer, I think Green Mage will show up. Think a combination of Green Magic/Druid/Geomancer/Elementalist from previous Final Fantasies. It would be hybrid Healer/Support.

 

From Thaumaturge I think we will see a crowd controlling mage with some DPS, such as Purple Mage, the reason why I say Purple instead of Time Mage, is because Yoshi-P has already said that we wont get Haste/a/ga/ja. Anyway, Purple Mages would get more crowd controlling abilities, and would be considered hybrid Support/DPS.

 

Marauder is a hard one, but if I get to guess, I think Viking would probably fit well. If Warriors are from the heartlands of the continent, then having berserking pirates have the other job would make sense for a Limsa job. It would combine the aspects of previous Final Fantasy Vikings, Berserkers and Pirate jobs that can be used with a giant axe.

 

Archer would probably become Ranger, if we keep with the Gridania theme. Unlike Bard, who provides a hybrid role in buffing allies, Rangers provide support by debuffing enemies. Otherwise, if Ishgard is involved, I could see crossbow wielding Arbalist, which borrow some from previous FFs but is pretty new. The reason why I mention Ishgard is because crossbows would be pretty effective against the hides of dragons.

 

I think everyone wants Lancer to get a pet wyvern/dragonet, but it is pretty hard with the established lore. There is the Valkyrie job from previous games,which you could have said pet be the ghost of a slain dragon, and thus explain why it isn't around all the time and why Dragoons don't kill it on sight.

 

Pugilist could work with Dancer, and unlike Bard, who buff allies, Dancers could debuff enemies, making a party with both very successful. They both could even have passive traits that buff their own abilities if they're in the same party (something like: 10-20% buff to all abilities if partied with a Dancer/Bard).

 

With how they went for the historical meaning of Paladins (guardians of palace and palatial residents), I could see Ninja and Samurai branch from the same class. The base class would have Katana main hand and Kunai in off hand (They have both Throw and Counter, but changes one or the other depending on job). Then, for Ninja, it becomes Ninjatou and Shuriken, while for Samurai it becomes Katana and Wakizashi.

[Aldotsk]

This is how I see in the results when they will add the following jobs in the future.

 

 

Ranger - Relies on DEX/VIT and small STR

Disciple: 30 Musketeer, 15 Archer

Weapons: Long Ranged Barrel Rifle/Shotgun/Bow

 

Corsair - Relies on DEX/MND/PIE

Disciple: 30 Musketeer, 15 Arcanist

Weapons: Short Barrel Gun/Cards

 

Bombardier - Relies on DEX/STR and small VIT/PIE

Disciple: 30 Musketeer, 15 Marauder

Weapons: Hand Cannon/Short Barrel Cannon/Grenade

 

Dark Knight - Relies on STR/VIT and small INT

Disciple: 30 Marauder, 15 Thamaturgist

Weapons: Scythe

 

Red Mage - Relies on STR/INT and small PIE

Disciple: 30 Gladiator, 15 Arcanist

Weapons: Rapier/Shield

 

Dancer - Relies on STR/MND and small PIE

Disciple: 30 Pugilist, 15 Conjurer

Weapons: Maracas/Tambourines

 

Blue Mage - Relies on INT/MND and small PIE

Disciple: 30 Thamaturgist, 15 Arcanist

Weapons: Orb

 

Blade Master - Relies on STR/DEX and small VIT

Disciple: 30 Gladiator, 15 Pugilist

Weapons: Dual One Handed Swords/Two Handed Sword (Great Sword)

 

Thief - Relies on DEX and small STR/VIT

Disciple: 30 Pugilist, 15 Musketeer

Weapons: Dual Daggers/Knives

 

Samurai - Relies on STR/DEX and small VIT

Disciple: 30 Gladiator, 15 Marauder

Weapons: Great Sword/Great Katana

 

Ninja - Relies on DEX/INT and small VIT

Disciple: 30 Gladiator, 15 Acher

Weapons: Katana/Kunai and Talisman

 

Geomancer - Relies on DEX/INT and small PIE

Disciple: 30 Pugilist, 15 Thamaturgist

Weapons: Mace/Flails and small shields

 

Puppet Master - Relies on DEX/MND and small PIE

Disciple: 30 Arcanist, 15 Pugilist

Weapons: Marotte and Strings

 

Beast Master/Rune Master - Relies on DEX/MND and small PIE

Disciple: 30 Arcanist, 15 Musketeer

Weapons: Shotgun/Double Barrel Shotgun

 

Arithmetician - Relies on INT and small PIE/DEX/MND

Disciple: 30 Arcanist, 15 Archer

Weapons: Ruler and Abacus

 

 

------

If there are new DoW coming out in future expansions:

New Disciple of War/Magic Classes

Ashigaru - Possible step to become Ninja/Samurai.

Smuggler - Possible step to become Thief and other classes.

Researcher - Possible step to become newer type of casting classes.

[synaesthetic]

You're forgetting that each class can only use one type of weapon in the Armory System, since the weapon is what determines what class you are currently switched to.

 

So if Rangers use bows, they'd absolutely have to be an Archer Job.

 

Actually, almost everything you listed requires that the Armory System be thrown away and replaced with a "switch jobs in the settings menu" thing similar to FFV.

[Aldotsk]

I am perfectly okay with not having armory system and not have limits to only one weapon.

I find FFXIV's "one weapon" per job to be extremely silly.

[synaesthetic]

I am perfectly okay with not having armory system and not have limits to only one weapon.

I find FFXIV's "one weapon" per job to be extremely silly.

 

I agree with you; I love love love the class switching and the ability to play anything on one character, especially as a PvE endgame addict, but tying it to the weapon is really silly.

 

It would be much, much easier and cleaner and give us far more gear variety and flexibility if we could just switch classes/jobs in our character pane.

 

Ideally what I'd like to see is a better split between classes and jobs. As things stand right now there's no reason to use a class over a job once you get your job, so the class beyond level 30 is basically pointless.

 

I'd like to see them do a few things:

 

Make cross-class actions wide open for classes. Don't really restrict anything. Give near-absolute flexibility to the classes. Of course, the traits would ensure that cross-class actions wouldn't be too powerful in the hands of other classes, but give us options so that getting those extra ten abilities is tempting rather than just a non-option.

 

Reduce the attribute gap between the class and the job. Jobs should get a specialization boost over classes, for sure, but it shouldn't be nearly as big as it is right now. Classes need a slight stat buff to close this gap.

 

Instead of allowing Jobs to cross-class actions as they do now, remove the cross-classing from Jobs entirely and give them five brand-new job-specific abilities (but make sure that the necessary utility features are filled... i.e. making sure WHM and SCH have a Swiftcast analogue, WAR has a Provoke analogue, etc). That way you have a real choice between flexibility (classes) and heavy specialization (Jobs).

 

Relics and AF/AF+ should remain job-only since they're the iconic equipment of the job, but add equivalent gear so classes can still gear up in the same way that's about as easy to obtain as relic/AF. The Grand Companies would be a fantastic place to put this; a ROLE/CLASS SPECIFIC (cannot be used by Jobs) set of item level 90 gear, including weapon, for each class that has the iconic Grand Company look. A Maelstrom Doublet of Casting (usable by ACN/THM), or a Serpent Tunic of Healing (usable by CNJ). That sort of thing. Make them purchasable from the GC vendor using both GC seals and mythology tomes. Make the class-specific weapons a reward as part of a Grand Company questline similar to the relic quest in scope.

 

Remove the stat point allocation entirely and instead replace it with Optional Traits that you can purchase with these points instead. Just add 30 points of the appropriate primary stat to the class/job's base attributes at 50 (ACN/SMN/THM/BLM gets 30 extra INT, CNJ/SCH/WHM gets 30 extra MND, etc), and then take the same 30 points you get for leveling up and use those to add extra traits to lower cooldowns, increase potencies, adjust other bits and pieces of your character's skills. Make them subtle but noticeable... examples would be to decrease the cooldown of Shroud of Saints slightly, or to add an extra flat amount of enmity to Provoke (to stop "rubberband" aggro). 

 

I'd love one for BLM that would decrease the cooldown of Convert, for example, or one for SCH that would increase the duration of Adloquium shields. How about an Optional Trait for SMN that would give Fester a 10% chance to consume no Aetherflow stacks? One for BRD that would increase the duration of Straight Shot? One for MNK that would reduce the cooldown of Perfect Balance? Or how about one for CNJ/WHM that would allow Stoneskin to be cast on the entire party when out of combat? That'd be fantastic and would give us a lot more flexibility in creating characters that really feel like our own, rather than just simple clones of everyone else.

[LiadansWhisper]

Such flexibility would be a nightmare to balance.  It's pretty clear from how they structured the game that they do not want us to use Classes over Jobs.  They're balancing endgame for Jobs.  Adding classes into the mix would be a real difficulty, I think.

[Naunet]

In which case, they may as well get rid of the "class" and "job" terminology all together, keeping the lore and whatnot but merging the concepts. As it is, the terms mean very little if anything, and the most important thing in terms of designing new jobs is distinguishing them from other jobs; therefore it makes sense to just toss out the useless parts of the system for something more streamlined and more easily adapted with new abilities.

[synaesthetic]

Such flexibility would be a nightmare to balance.  It's pretty clear from how they structured the game that they do not want us to use Classes over Jobs.  They're balancing endgame for Jobs.  Adding classes into the mix would be a real difficulty, I think.

 

The biggest favor an MMO developer could do themselves is to throw out the idea that anything will ever be "balanced."

 

You've played RIFT, yes? Consider how complex RIFT's talent system is compared to what I just outlined. Consider also how well-balanced RIFT is, and consider how Trion doesn't spend an inordinate amount of time concerning themselves with "balance" to the exclusion of all else.

[Naunet]

Consider also how well-balanced RIFT is, and consider how Trion doesn't spend an inordinate amount of time concerning themselves with "balance" to the exclusion of all else.

 

... *crawls into a corner and weeps for the loss of Reaver tank*

[Illira]

Consider also how well-balanced RIFT is, and consider how Trion doesn't spend an inordinate amount of time concerning themselves with "balance" to the exclusion of all else.

 

... *crawls into a corner and weeps for the loss of Reaver tank*

 

Maybe this will help ease the pain?

[Dakki]

You're forgetting that each class can only use one type of weapon in the Armory System, since the weapon is what determines what class you are currently switched to.

 

B-... But, Aeriyn. No class right now uses mammots. ;-; No Puppetmaster? SAY IT AIN'T SO! :cry:

[LiadansWhisper]

 

 

 

The biggest favor an MMO developer could do themselves is to throw out the idea that anything will ever be "balanced."

 

You've played RIFT, yes? Consider how complex RIFT's talent system is compared to what I just outlined. Consider also how well-balanced RIFT is, and consider how Trion doesn't spend an inordinate amount of time concerning themselves with "balance" to the exclusion of all else.

 

But Rift isn't really "balanced." One of the complaints I constantly hear, for instance, is about how unbalanced PvP is.

 

If there isn't balance in the game, then you're going to end up with raids that class stack.  When that happens in WoW, for instance, it's a sign that a class is not balanced and nerfs normally follow.  The difference between balancing for 8 classes vs 15 classes is massive.

[Ildur]

No matter what game I go to, I always hear how unbalanced the PvP is.

Most players always go for the "flavor of the month" class, no matter what you do. The difference between constantly rebalancing and nerfing classes and not doing it is the ammount of time flavorists will stay with the most unbalanced class. This is specially true for PvP.

 

But Rift is no different. I've been playing it for 30 levels, and I have noted the flavor of the month already. Most mages are necromancers or elementalists. All rogues I've seen are either rangers or tacticians. All the warriors I see are that one that uses electricty whose name I forgot. Clerics are the only class where I have recognized the bigger variation, but even then most of them are druids.

 

Proper balance is impossible to achieve. What developers have to do is just make sure that all clases are fun and viable and stop bothering with people who play the most overpowered class.

Of course, when you add PvP to the balancing equation you are screwed. Because in PvP the fun and viability is directly dependant on proper balance. Which, as I said, I do not think is possible to achieve.

[Naunet]

The key to balancing PvP is to completely divorce it from PvE. The day all skills function differently in PvP from how they do in PvE is the day an MMO will truly be able to "balance" both (or as close as one can ever get to true "balance").

 

Regarding Rift, I've actually seen a rather wide variety of classes whilst dungeoning. The thing about that MMO, though, is that most people have 2, 3, or more roles set up that they switch between depending on any given situation (and in a raiding environment, often from fight to fight). It's extremely uncommon for a player to ONLY be a 61 pt Purifier and nothing else.

[synaesthetic]

But Rift isn't really "balanced." One of the complaints I constantly hear, for instance, is about how unbalanced PvP is.

 

If there isn't balance in the game, then you're going to end up with raids that class stack.  When that happens in WoW, for instance, it's a sign that a class is not balanced and nerfs normally follow.  The difference between balancing for 8 classes vs 15 classes is massive.

 

Ah, sorry, I meant to say "well-balanced" with quotes around it. I know RIFT's balance is balls, and it doesn't really matter. Class stacking does happen, sure, it's even happening in XIV now even with how restrictive and samey our classes are.

 

Garuda EX is an absolute joke if you take a bard and four black mages. A boring slog through her massive HP pool if you don't. Titan EX is far easier with more melee than casters. The ADS in Turn 2 is easier with two bards. Class stacking happens; theorycrafters will always reduce everything down to one and there's no way to stop them short of using a zero-sum/incomparables system (which are really hard to design well and keep fun).

 

PvE doesn't really need to be balanced. You can use mechanics to stop class stacking; Turn 4 does it by having two enemy types that can only be damaged by either physical or magical damage dealers. This forces you to diversify your party. There are loads of other ways to design encounters to keep any one class from being preferred over the other... without nerfing the class directly and making your players feel slighted. It's still technically a nerf, but it's an invisible one. If you can, buff rather than nerf. Make the enemies stronger if the players feel too powerful. Raise the other classes up if one class sticks out as being stronger in all situations. Design encounters that forbid class stacking or at least make it harder to stack the flavor-of-the-month than to approach the encounter with a diverse party composition.

 

PvP is easy, just as Naunet mentioned: completely disjoin PvE and PvP. Do it one hundred percent. Any PvP nerfs, adjustments or changes to actions should only ever take effect when those actions are used against another player. Yoshida claimed that this is what his team would do with XIV, and it turns out they did not do this; several PvP-related changes affected PvE to a considerable degree--Rain of Death, Scathe, taking Thunder away from SMN and giving them the PvE-useless Blizzard II, the diminishing returns adjustment that was intended to make PvP stunlocking more difficult making encounters designed to be stunned using the old DR rules more annoying... I could go on.

[Dakki]

Don't you dare tell me you don't want these guys in FFXIV...

 

http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060418044257/ffxi/images/2/26/Puppetmaster03.jpg[/img]

 

http://static3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081115190224/ffxi/images/5/54/Soulsoother_head.png[/img]

 

Best. Support Class. Ever.

[Mtoto Wamoto]

Gladiator > Dark Knight (GLA w MRD/LNC sub)

imo, DRK would be a status infliction and DPS class. I see it as a specialty hybrid that -could- tank if it wanted to, but its main function is to deal damage while enfeebling the enemy in various ways.

 

I feel a few adjustments would need to be made before this could happen. a.) Remove daggers as a sword type from the Gladiator base class and add it to another class (such as Scout) b.) add great swords as a sword type for the base class.

 

Adding a 2 handed option to Gladiator, they could do something like this:

 

When using a 2 handed sword, you lose access to the shield slot, thus losing shield lob and shield bash.

When using a 2 handed sword, all attacks generate 2x enmity in addition to any other multipliers.

When using a 2 handed sword, attacks are slightly slower but deal substantially more damage than using a 1 handed sword.

 

With a Dark Knight Soul Crystal set instead of a Paladin's...

 

Rage of Halone combo loses its enmity generating bonus. It instead receives status affliction bonuses such as fear, gravity, slow, or paralyze. 

 

Riot Blade combo becomes more useful. Reduced tp cost to use vs Rage of Halone combo, increases potency, and an additional skill after Riot Blade to create a new 3 combo. Retains the MP restore bonus.

 

Skills added exclusively for Dark Knight could be something like this:

 

Souleater - Slowly drains HP while increasing damage dealt to targets. Grants the user Blood Magic debuff and is only removed when using Soul Eater again. Automatically switches off if the caster drops down to 15% HP. Cannot be used at the same time as Blood Weapon.

 

Blood Weapon - Applies a buff to the caster which grants a drain effect on all attacks. Converts 25% of damage dealt into HP. Stacks with Bloodbath from Marauder (total of 50% conversion). Lasts for 60s. Cannot be used at the same time as Souleater. 

 

Fearful Impact - Next attack receives 100% accuracy and applies max fear to the target, regardless of built resistance/diminishing returns. (Fear prevents afflicted target from moving and using weaponskills/spells) Fear duration - 15s. 300s CD.

 

Absorb - A special skill that changes its bonus effect depending on the skill used before it. For example - If Fast Blade is used before it, Absorb will absorb the a portion of the target's DEX and apply it to yours. Absorb effect lasts for 15s. CD of 30s. Below is a list of skills which affect absorb. Will disrupt combos.

 

Fast Blade - Absorb DEX

Savage Blade - Absorb STR

Rage of Halone - Absorb VIT and PIE

Riot Blade - Absorb INT

Abyssal Blade - Absorb STR, INT, and DEX (only half the amount of the other absorbs however)

 

Abyssal Blade - Final weapon skill in the Riot Blade combo. 280 potency when used in a combo. Sacrifices HP to deal damage to all targets in front in a cone (max distance of 10y). The closer the target, the more damage dealt. Further targets take less damage. Would use quite a bit of TP compared to other weapon skills to offset how strong it is.

 

Anyways, that's my thought on DRK. I have thoughts on other classes and how they could become something else, but yeah. lol.

[Sounsyy]

It's an interesting concept, I still can't see it fitting with GLA at all though. 

 

You're still having to implement a system that negates or changes the effects of a majority of your base class abilities. Which IMO, if you're going to have to change every single base class ability, that job probably doesn't belong on that class. If you look at SCH vs SMN, even though they fill different roles, their abilities do not magically change function. Miasma is still a DoT on both. 

 

Your Great Sword concept is kinda OP. 2x Enmity generation just because you don't have a shield? WAR don't have a shield either and they don't get a token 2x enmity. Based on your description GLA and PLD can equip a GS as well? So that's 4x natural enmity generation for a PLD.

 

Equipping a different weapon type (which conflicts with Armoury System and established GLA lore) also makes three of your class abilities inert. So your proposed DRK is already behind the 8-ball on abilities.

 

On top of shield lob, shield bash, and bulwark being rendered inert, your concept still doesn't explain what practical uses your DRK would have for Sentinel, Rampart, Awareness, Convalescence, Flash, or Provoke. So a total of 9 abilities from your base class that really have no purpose on a battle-to-battle basis. The only useful buff that your base class contributes to your DRK is Fight or Flight.

 

I like your concepts for Soul Eater and Abyssal Blade, but I feel like Blood Weapon, Fearful Impact, and Absorb are a little lackluster. 

-The only problem I have with Blood Weapon is that it almost requires being stacked with Bloodbath (a cross-classed ability) to be effective. Anyone who's played WAR knows how negligible 25% hp return really is.

-Your concept for DRK has absolutely no use for any other stat than STR, so you would only ever want to use Absorb following Savage Blade. (An ability you'd probably shy away from because Rage of Halone with 10x enmity modifier, thanks to 2x enmity from GS, on a dd class might be dangerous; and you've buffed the Riot Blade > Abyssal Blade tree.) Unless Absorb buffed the whole party and not just the user, then maybe I could see it being useful. 

-Fearful Impact would suffer for the same reason that most Debuff classes fail in MMOs. Most bosses are immune to all/most statuses, especially Stun/Pacification type abilities. Just like why you don't see PLD's using Shield Swipe during most boss fights. If it works, great, but 90% of bosses are immune to its effects. And a 300s cooldown on what's essentially a glorified Stun move seems a bit silly.

 

 

 

Again, this is the reason why I'm against alternate jobs on pre-existing classes. However, since that is what this thread is all about, I wanted to take Wamoto's concept of DRK and apply it to MRD, which I think is a much more logical fit for DRK.

 

MRD is already a class that balances tanking and dps(which is what most people seem to want DRK to do). WAR is an HP tank, DRK is an HP dps. You already have spikes (Vengeance), a natural buff to increase attack power (Berserk), and an HP drain (Bloodbath). You also have 3 weaponskill trees to go down, two of which do not generate enmity, and both apply a Debuff to the target. Which fits in with the DRK concept of a debuffer. Also as a MRD>DRK instead of WAR, you won't have to deal with the -35% dps from Defiance. So you'll be doing a good bit of extra dmg. (When buffed my non-STR WAR can crit 990 Butcher Blocks and 850~900 Storm's Eyes. I've never been able to get above 500 crit Rage of Halone on my PLD. Another reason I think GLA is a poor fit for a dd class.)

 

So now let's plug in DRK:

 

Soul Eater DRK Lv30 - User takes 20% of damage dealt by all attacks against enemies, while increasing overall damage dealt. Soul Eater automatically switches off if user's HP drops below 15%. Cannot be used in conjunction with Blood Weapon.

 

(Usually when you have two toggle abilities, one of them is up at any given time. Considering this will be the first one up, it didn't make sense to have a natural DoT even when outside of combat. Now that this works like a reverse Bloodbath, it gives you an actual reason to swap to Blood Weapon. You create phases and dynamics within the job. Just like BLMs have Fire and Ice aspects for MP. DRK will have burn and restore phases for HP. For those crying about 20% it's not that much dmg. 20% of 900 is only 180 and you probably won't be hitting 900 dmg every swing. Regen will help increase your burn phase duration. Also you could pop Bloodbath here to negate the effects of Soul Eater and increase your burn phase for Bloodbath's duration. But the more damage you put out, the more HP you lose. This is why MRD is the perfect choice for base class because you have a substantial HP pool in which to supply Soul Eater and when you get low, you can pop Thrill of Battle to keep it going!)

 

Absorb DRK Lv35 - Absorb a single primary stat from enemy and apply it to all party members within range. Stat absorbed varies based on last combo completed. Duration: 30s | MP Cost @Lv50: 150. | Cast Time: 2.5s | Storm's Eye = +INT, Storm's Path = +DEX, Butcher's Block = +STR. 

 

(I made this MP based instead of a cooldown because MRD at 50 only have like 600 MP and no way to restore it, so this creates scarcity and ensures you won't have this up all the time. It will also act primarily as a buff to party member's damage as acquiring the STR buff will require you to go down enmity tree at least once if you want to max out your own damage for a burn phase. This makes it so you don't make yourself OP without at least a little risk. Also limited the stats absorbed to just STR, DEX, and INT because DRK is a dd and it should only buff party's damage output. So VIT, MND, or PIE don't make much sense.)

 

Blood Weapon DRK Lv40 - Converts 35% of damage dealt into HP. Cannot be used in conjunction with Soul Eater.

 

(I made this a toggle so it isn't just a second Bloodbath. This can be stacked with your Bloodbath ability for 60% conversion. This will be the "Umbral Ice" to your Soul Eater, quickly restoring HP to full after a burn phase. You also lose the damage dealt increase from Soul Eater, so you won't insta restore full HP with a few swings. This is your resting phase ability.)

 

Abyssal Swing DRK Lv45 - Sacrifices 20% HP to deliver an attack with a potency of 300 to all nearby enemies. Potency reduced the farther the target is from the user. Range: 10y

 

(MRD already has a cone, so Abyssal Swing will be DRK's answer to Steel Cyclone. It also won't have a TP cost because it has an HP cost, which will prevent it from being spammed. However, like Steel Cyclone, I'd leave it on the GCD so it could be spammed assuming you have a dedicated healer keeping you up. This would allow your DRK to have both single-target and AoE capabilities just like WAR does.)

 

Fearful Impact DRK Lv50 - User charges forward, delivering an attack with a potency of 200 to all enemies in path ahead. Inflicts Stun to all enemies in direct path of attack and Heavy to all enemies just outside charge path. Charge Range: 10y. Cooldown: 180s.

 

(Here's my take on Fearful Impact. We don't have a charge skill in XIV yet and I think DRK should be the class to have it. Instead of adding another type of stun effect to the game, I'm opting for a focused aoe stun. This ability's effectiveness is still at the mercy of immunities and CC, but I wouldn't see this being used on many bosses. More of an extra crowd control debuff feature for adds to play in with DRK as a debuffer class and MRD being an aoe tank/dd. As it will be mostly useless against major boss fights, I saw no reason to give it more than a 3 minute cooldown time.)

 

 

 

Now to wrap it all up, just add LNC and ARC as subjobs and you're set. THM subjob is kinda dumb because the only worthwhile ability you could pull would be Swiftcast for Absorb. With LNC/ARC you can cross-class Invigorate to use during your resting phase and Blood for Blood, Raging Strikes, and Quelling Strikes to use during burn phase. So in conclusion, MRD > DRK brings the following things to the table:

- Single target dps and debuffing. (Maim, Storm's Eye/Path, Soul Eater, Berserk, Fracture)

- Capable of some AoE dps and debuffing. (Overpower, Abyssal Swing, Fearful Impact)

- Has a burn phase and resting phase based on HP which is regulated with Soul Eater, Blood Weapon, Bloodbath, and Thrill of Battle.

- Party utility (Absorb)

- Can step up to be a poor tanking substitute with Vengeance, Foresight, Blood Weapon, Overpower, and enmity combo tree. But since your attacks and your survivability would both depend entirely on your HP pool, you wouldn't last long.

 

And most importantly of all: MRD > DRK has no useless abilities and I didn't change the function of a single pre-existing ability.

[synaesthetic]

So... what does GLA get? Another tank job? That would be completely pointless and not in line with what Yoshida stated about classes getting jobs that changed their role.

 

GLA will end up getting a damage-dealer job, and it will "negate" abilities, just like ACN's damage dealing abilities are "negated" on SCH.

 

The benefit of GLA and MRD getting damage-dealer jobs will be that they can effectively offtank in emergencies, just like SCH and WHM can somewhat effectively deal damage in emergencies, and WAR can do a little damage as well.

[Yssen]

So... what does GLA get? Another tank job? That would be completely pointless and not in line with what Yoshida stated about classes getting jobs that changed their role.

 

GLA will end up getting a damage-dealer job, and it will "negate" abilities, just like ACN's damage dealing abilities are "negated" on SCH.

 

The benefit of GLA and MRD getting damage-dealer jobs will be that they can effectively offtank in emergencies, just like SCH and WHM can somewhat effectively deal damage in emergencies, and WAR can do a little damage as well.

 It very well may. We all like DRK and we all want them to put it in. Heck it was my main in XI. I want it bad, and will absolutely play it no matter what form it takes. 

 

Jobs do change class roles. SCH is a great example, but SCH does not lose any Arcanist abilities at all, save for the two summons becoming healing and support based pets. It just fails to gain any SMN abilities. The transformation is based as much on the job abilities it gains, as well as the transition of the pets from dd/tank to support/healing. 

 

All that people are pointing out with the MRD over GLA argument is that the transition is easier branching out of MRD, as opposed to branching out of GLA. Are they right that DRK will spawn out of MRD? Who knows. MRD has many abilities that one would attribute to a DRK. Bloodbath is Blood Weapon, Vengeance is similar to Dread Spikes, Scythe animations could easily share the same animation as the Great Axe (in XI, they were the same animation). It is correct that branching DRK from MRD would be the easier fit. They could still be wrong, though.

 

DRK could branch out from the Great Sword wielding class they have mentioned being tested. The two planned jobs for it could easily be DRK and what ever they are going to call SAM. It could, though it is super unlikely, also branch from Musketeer, because Yoshi-P is an awesome crazy person who feels DRKs should use guns. One sec, I am going to take a moment to reflect how freaking awesome that could be for a second. Mmmm. There, moment over. It could also branch from some class that they have not even teased us with. (Sidenote - Yoshi-P has mentioned that we will be getting NIN and SAM, they are just not going to be called NIN and SAM.) 

 

I like GLA, I really do. And I really love Paladin. As far as a pure DD class branching out of it, I dunno. GLA is set up as a straight up tank from a class stand point. PLD enhances this, crazily. Do not forget that they had to modify WAR to make it a tank on par with PLD. I mean, WARs have to cross class two abilities from it to be full on effective tanks. What we are really talking about here is the difference in changing two abilities (like with SCH) and giving nearly every single ability a class has a complete overhaul. Can it be done? Yes. Will they do it? I think it is unlikely. It is way more work than I think they will find necessary. I also think that they approached each class with a plan as to what jobs it would branch into. Evidence is seen in SCH and SMN. Both have vastly different roles as Jobs, but they build off of the same root. A healer/dps that focuses on damage over time as opposed to bursting. GLA is awesome, but it is not a DD. DRK is a DD. That is how they are looking at it. That is how it was listed when the mentioned it int the poll. To be specific "A damage dealer that deals special damage (Dark Knight)."

 

Still. I could be wrong. We all could be, and our lives will not be completely ruined if DRK does not branch off of what we would like it to. Lets focus on the excitement of what jobs besides DRK could possibly branch off of GLA. Fencer? Mystic Knight? Templar? Onion Knight? There are wide open possibilities. Yar.

[Sounsyy]

So... what does GLA get? Another tank job? That would be completely pointless and not in line with what Yoshida stated about classes getting jobs that changed their role.

 

I think it's a little silly to expect all 7 original classes to all change role. I think we're still going to wind up with DD to DD at the very least. Because we don't need many more tanks/healers if I'm honest. The more classes you add per role, the harder it is to balance them. And if you don't balance them enough to where each class is viable in all content, then you get class stacking or you just get classes that no one plays anymore. I know this was a huge problem for SE in XI. 

 

As for GLA, I really don't know what it would get besides a tank. It's just not built for anything else. But a friend of mine and I were discussing this very issue a while back and he suggested Gladiator into Machinist (FFVI's Edgar). Machinist(MCH) would be a tank, but would focus on being a Debuff tank, utilizing "Break"-type abilities like Weapon Break, Armor Break, etc. So this is what we came up with:

 

MCH 30: Debilitator - Lowers damage dealt by 30% while doubling the duration of all negative status effects on target, and increasing enmity. Effect ends upon reuse.

 

MCH 35: Noiseblaster - Strikes shield to create a soundwave which lowers nearby targets' magical defense for 15s. Can only be used immediately following a block. MP Cost: 200

 

MCH 40: Drill - Delivers an attack with a potency of 200. Additional Effect: Reduces target's Slashing, Piercing, and Blunt resistance for 20s. CD: 90s

 

MCH 45: Chainsaw - Delivers an attack with a potency of 250. Combos off of Riot Blade. Combo Action: Reduces target's attack power for 15s.

 

MCH 50: Anchor - Binds and pacifies user, while increasing user's Defense and Magic Defense by 50% and increasing enmity in all engaged targets. Duration: 10s. CD: 300s.

 

 

So the Machinist takes what already makes GLA's great, which is their defense and mitigation abilities, and compounds the GLA's survivability by weakening the incoming damage at its source. Adding a debuff WS that combos off of Riot Blade also gives MCH a reason to use an alternate tree besides spamming Rage of Halone. Also having an ability that procs off of a Shield Block makes so much dang sense for the only class that uses a shield. An AoE debuff that is highly favorable to BRD's, BLM's, and SMN's dps also makes Riot Blade a useful ability since Noiseblaster would require MP. 

 

The obvious problem with Machinist is that it completely overshadows PLD. No one would want PLD if MCH could offer all these increases to DPS vs the only thing PLD could bring to the table would be +20% natural damage mitigation over MCH and the ability to invincible and still put out dps. Whenever you look at which class is going to be most favorable to the party, it will ALWAYS be the class that facilitates better dps and faster kill times out of a party. DPS is everything in MMOs.

 

 

 

GLA will end up getting a damage-dealer job, and it will "negate" abilities, just like ACN's damage dealing abilities are "negated" on SCH.

 

The benefit of GLA and MRD getting damage-dealer jobs will be that they can effectively offtank in emergencies, just like SCH and WHM can somewhat effectively deal damage in emergencies, and WAR can do a little damage as well.

 

ACN's class abilities are in no way negated on SCH btw. On SCH you should always be assisting with dps in between heals. Even more so than WHM because you have a healing fairy that will take over heals for you to do it. In any content below Coil, I just let the fairy heal most everything and deal damage the entire dungeon. I buff and throw in assist physicks and adloquiems as necessary. Cleric stance is super easy to pop on and off. Even in Coil T4 our SCH is right there cleric stance'd and burning Dreadnaughts with the rest of the DD. 

 

If you're good, you can heal and deal a worthwhile amount of damage on every single fight. This contributes to the party's effort and hastens the fight. This utility is in no way comparable to a DD class that stems off of GLA and has zero use or utility for 9 of their abilities on a fight-to-fight basis. A DD popping Sentinel when they aren't taking any damage in no way aids your party with clearing trash mobs quicker. Versus a SCH throwing Bio II > Miasma > Bio > Bane, effectively adding 3 more DoTs against the attacking party. This is noticeably helpful in fights where you don't have an additional ACN or SMN.

 

But the point I'm trying to get across is that no matter which DD job stems off of GLA, their dps will suffer horribly because they don't have any DD abilities or buffs from their base class, because their base class wastes 9 abilities on the hope that the party's tank dies every fight.

[synaesthetic]

Then explain to me how Gladiator's abilities will be "negated" just because it's in a damage stance?

 

Do you know what the fucking quotes mean or are you just dense? I play scholar in endgame content. I know how to play; I'm not a complete moron like you seem to think I am.

 

I just fucking said that the point of giving a damage-dealing role to a tank class like Gladiator makes a lot of sense because they can drop their goddamned damage stance and offtank crazy mobs in emergencies, then reactivate it and resume doing damage. Hell, in an earlier post I explained exactly how DRK being a GLA job would be absolutely amazing for fights like Garuda EX, where you sometimes need three tanks (cyclone phase) but mostly just need two!

 

BUT NO. You continue to insult my intelligence by misrepresenting my position. The lot of ya'll are just so bound up in the idea that DRK has to have a two-handed sword or scythe or axe and be exactly fuckin' like it was from FFXI because none of you can let go of the goddamned past.

 

AND BESIDES I already outlined a way to make it so the only, the only, the absolute only abilities being wasted on a GLA-derived DRK, would be things like their defensive cooldowns. Which, if I remember correctly, other damage-dealers have and don't use unless they get aggro. Well, duuuuuh. But since you clearly can't read (but can somehow write, not really sure how that works), you completely missed the Darkside toggled ability (or stance, if you will) that DRK would get at level 30 upon completing their class quest.

 

Darkside, as the name might suggest, allows the dark knight to indulge in their... dark side. All of the additional enmity effects are stripped from their weaponskills, abilities and spells. Their base damage is improved by 20% and their damage taken is increased by 15%. Oh, look, nothing at all has been made useless except: Provoke... and that's it! Everything else still has a use. Maybe it's situational, but it still has a use. Even Flash can still be used to apply Blind.