Playing a Job and Race: Why does it bring about ire?

[Lillith Cale]

I haven't had much of a chance to RP with everyone here yet, and I'm still working on my wiki, but since I joined FFXIV back in February I did so with the intention to RP and with a very clear picture of what I wanted my character, Lillith to be.

 

Combat-wise, I play a Bard. In character, Lillith has, in fact, trained with the Godsbow though she left her training not even halfway through because she found him to be a very pathetic individual and did not wish to continue training under him. But I've seen people get very upset if someone is playing the job instead of the class. I don't see anywhere in the lore I've gone through that says there can be one and only one of a given job at a time.

 

However, I've seen people get into debates about playing the class vs the job. If anyone asks, Lillith will, begrudgingly, admit to having some training as a Bard. Does this mean I am going to be on the receiving end of scorn? And it's not just the Job VS Class I've seen issues with. I myself have personally experienced an issue In Character wise where I was told I shouldn't be playing a Miqo'te because Lillith doesn't keep to their values and conventions. Lillith was abandoned as a child and adopted, that is why she does not keep to those values but that did not seem to be a good enough answer.

 

So, my question is this. I would adore to continue on with my character and have a good time here, but is Lillith ultimately going to end up upsetting people more than being someone to have fun with? At the end of the day, I respect and love the lore of FFXIV but I also feel as if they are a lot of gray areas one can play into, especially in the Job vs Class debate.

[Roswyn]

Bard is a bit of an interesting job because the main dividing line between it and normal archers is the songs. It's debatable if the bards of today will ever be the same as the bards of yore etc. Also, if I remember correctly, you PC would have to have a certain relationship with the moogles of the shroud who can be very very picky. They would need a reason to like your PC besides "they wanna be a bard."

 

Bard is one of the more lax ones I think. It's more strict with other jobs. From my understanding, certain jobs in game are just plain unaccessable to a PC (WHM/BLM) and others your PC would have to craft a whole story around to attain and it would likely take many many years to to accomplish assuming they don't die/get tempered in the process. (SMN/MNK)

 

As always, if anyone can shed more light on this I'm all ears. I really enjoy the lore behind the jobs and how they affect PC lore.

[Lillith Cale]

Bard is a bit of an interesting job because the main dividing line between it and normal archers is the songs. It's debatable if the bards of today will ever be the same as the bards of yore etc. Also, if I remember correctly, you PC would have to have a certain relationship with the moogles of the shroud who can be very very picky. They would need a reason to like your PC besides "they wanna be a bard."

 

Bard is one of the more lax ones I think. It's more strict with other jobs. From my understanding, certain jobs in game are just plain unaccessable to a PC (WHM/BLM) and others your PC would have to craft a whole story around to attain and it would likely take many many years to to accomplish assuming they don't die/get tempered in the process. (SMN/MNK)

 

As always, if anyone can shed more light on this I'm all ears. I really enjoy the lore behind the jobs and how they affect PC lore.

 

PC wise, Lillith was raised in the Shroud from the day she found, and she was abandoned at only a few months old. She holds very close to the ideas and culture of those in the shroud, even though she herself has experienced scorn at being an outsider, which in turn has made her a bit bitter, she was raised a Gridanian and does not like being treated in such a way. It's a fun story

 

Ultimately, I feel that the lore in regards to many jobs, maybe not all, but many can be a bit ambiguous. While some can definitely take more story crafting, as you pointed out, I think that if our characters were meant to be the one and only we wouldn't have seen all those other implied PCs flying about Hydaelyn when she showed herself to us.

 

But, I am rambling I think. My biggest concern really is if my character will end up upsetting the community, and if it does, should I continue or just remove myself? I don't like causing people stress, but at the same time, I personally don't feel that lore has been horribly bent.

[Roswyn]

But, I am rambling I think. My biggest concern really is if my character will end up upsetting the community, and if it does, should I continue or just remove myself? I don't like causing people stress, but at the same time, I personally don't feel that lore has been horribly bent.

 

What I would do is talk to a lot of people and comb the lore and make sure your PC's story is adaptable to what Square has laid out. There are a lot of people on the forums here who are very knowledgeable about the lore and I know would be willing to lend a hand if asked.

 

From what I've gathered, a PC being a "job" is a pretty rare and noticeable sight. A lot of people's PC's might even treat yours as insane right off the bat if you claim to be one. As a result, even if you've gone to lengths to make sure you are lore-compliant (which I DO think is possible with specific jobs) I see it as a fact that the character would likely play close to their chest. It would be something that could garner extra unwanted and negative attention and most people typically don't want that kind of thing around them all the time.

 

However, I do see it as an opportunity for some really awesome character development between your character and those that desire to put in the time to get to know her on a personal level.

[Lillith Cale]

But, I am rambling I think. My biggest concern really is if my character will end up upsetting the community, and if it does, should I continue or just remove myself? I don't like causing people stress, but at the same time, I personally don't feel that lore has been horribly bent.

 

What I would do is talk to a lot of people and comb the lore and make sure your PC's story is adaptable to what Square has laid out. There are a lot of people on the forums here who are very knowledgeable about the lore and I know would be willing to lend a hand if asked.

 

From what I've gathered, a PC being a "job" is a pretty rare and noticeable sight. A lot of people's PC's might even treat yours as insane right off the bat if you claim to be one. As a result, even if you've gone to lengths to make sure you are lore-compliant (which I DO think is possible with specific jobs) I see it as a fact that the character would likely play close to their chest. It would be something that could garner extra unwanted and negative attention and most people typically don't want that kind of thing around them all the time.

 

However, I do see it as an opportunity for some really awesome character development between your character and those that desire to put in the time to get to know her on a personal level.

 I appreciate the suggestion I do wish to keep my character relatively lore compliant, but I do also want to RP to have fun and enjoy the story I've built around her in the world in which square has developed, if that means a bit of lore bending be it for my character or for others, I am not someone who is going to get upset about it, so long as it's not something that could be considered Godlevel or game breaking. I suppose what I am afraid of is that this will offend a vast majority of people within this specific community.

 

Lillith does not actively talk about her training or meeting the Godsbow, it's definitely not something she advertises or is happy about. He was an utter disappointed for her. The biggest driving factor behind Lillith is her love for archery and her want to become something greater than just an archer, which IS something she'll talk about in character.

[Shayrei]

I could be wrong, it's not uncommon, but the only 'lore restricted' jobs are those of white mages. Summoners are an iffy things because of what they summon and black mages have a stigma leaning toward ill repute, but even then it's not 'illegal' or lore 'breaking' to play them. I've seen plenty of IC bards wandering around plucking those harp strings.

 

People can be eager to share opinions or to get offended but at the end of the day it's your character and it's your $15 dollars a month. Take the good, roll with the bad. At the end of the day play what you want to play. 

 

 

We can't all be heroes. We can't all be nobodies. We need all kinds to make the world feel real.You'll find a group that doesn't mind your 'differences' (not that I think anyone will shun you at all!), there are plenty of little niches within this community. You'll find yours.  Good luck!

[LiadansWhisper]

Also, if I remember correctly, you PC would have to have a certain relationship with the moogles of the shroud who can be very very picky. They would need a reason to like your PC besides "they wanna be a bard."

 

Actually, I think all the Moogles did in this case was hold onto an item.  They didn't actually make you a Bard.  Your training with the Godsbow did, but even he says that the only reasons why there aren't Bards everywhere is that they fell out of fashion when times became more warlike.

 

Well, and they started to sing about bullshit (i.e. they "Embellished" a lot), and this made the Bard magic die (as it only works if you sing about truth).

 

OP, Bard is one of the easiest Jobs to justify, speaking from the quest text anyway.  I don't see why anyone would have an issue with your character being a Bard.

[FreelanceWizard]

There are a lot of grey areas of lore to play with, and then there's always the old debate over the premise, "if the game allows me to be X mechanically, then I can RP being X." That said, in terms of the exclusivity of Jobs, Bard isn't a hard one to arrange, as others have noted. Personally, I think none of the Jobs are especially hard to justify in a lore-compatible way, depending on your view of the lore. Whether you agree with that or not, though, it's a fair point to note that the Jobs are still rare, and those with their power are likely to keep it fairly quiet. Note also that there's a difference between a bard (an itinerant storyteller and musician) and a Bard (a combat musician whose songs in battle can inspire their comrades).

 

I want to address one thing you said specifically, though...

 

I myself have personally experienced an issue In Character wise where I was told I shouldn't be playing a Miqo'te because Lillith doesn't keep to their values and conventions. Lillith was abandoned as a child and adopted, that is why she does not keep to those values but that did not seem to be a good enough answer.

 

If the players told you OOC that you shouldn't be playing a miqo'te, that's out of line, IMO. If you got flak IC for playing a miqo'te who doesn't hold to their conventions, then sure, that's to be expected. Traditional tribal miqo'te are going to probably take offense at another miqo'te who ignores their culture. From their point of view, you should get together with a family or tribe, adopt a miqo'te name, and follow the culture. It's up to you to decide how your character deals with such prejudices, but you should expect them as the tribal versus "city" miqo'te is a significant source of tension in RP.

[LiveVoltage]

Isn't Dragoon another class thats easily justifiable by lore standards? I mean, Inessa is a Pseudo-Dragoon. She has training to be one but its incomplete training, yet she has adapted her own style to her training thus making a new form of the Dragoon art.

 

I think Coerthas has a group of Temple Knights, or more specifically Dragon Knights, and they arent limited to just one person. There can be dozens of them. Specifically, its more lore friendly to be an Elezen Dragon Knight rather than a Miqo'te, but it can be passed off as lore friendly under the right circumstances.

 

In general though, I haven't seen any conflict/friction yet regarding city/tribal Miqo'te, but then again, I haven't RPed with enough people to notice yet.

 

In general, if youre character is a Miqo'te then they are classified as either City or Tribal Miqo'te so thats generally the best way to explain it. Tribal follows tradition while city doesn't have too, and often doesn't.

[LiadansWhisper]

Isn't Dragoon another class thats easily justifiable by lore standards? I mean, Inessa is a Pseudo-Dragoon. She has training to be one but its incomplete training, yet she has adapted her own style to her training thus making a new form of the Dragoon art.

 

I think Coerthas has a group of Temple Knights, or more specifically Dragon Knights, and they arent limited to just one person. There can be dozens of them. Specifically, its more lore friendly to be an Elezen Dragon Knight rather than a Miqo'te, but it can be passed off as lore friendly under the right circumstances.

 

In general though, I haven't seen any conflict/friction yet regarding city/tribal Miqo'te, but then again, I haven't RPed with enough people to notice yet.

 

In general, if youre character is a Miqo'te then they are classified as either City or Tribal Miqo'te so thats generally the best way to explain it. Tribal follows tradition while city doesn't have too, and often doesn't.

 

There are Dragoons, and there is The Azure Dragoon.  It's lore-friendly to be a Dragoon.  It's not lore-friendly to be The Azure Dragoon.

[LiveVoltage]

Ah, well whats the difference between the two then?   @_@

[LiadansWhisper]

Ah, well whats the difference between the two then?   @_@

 

It's better explained in the quest itself, but I believe the Azure Dragoon has some Super Speshul Mojo involved with him.

 

There is only ever one Azure Dragoon at a time.

[LiveVoltage]

Ah, well whats the difference between the two then?   @_@

 

It's better explained in the quest itself, but I believe the Azure Dragoon has some Super Speshul Mojo involved with him.

 

There is only ever one Azure Dragoon at a time.

Sooooo... basicall there is no difference and both normal Dragoons and the Azure Dragoon have the same skills and ability's. Granted that the Azure Dragoon would be OP and special in his own way, but generally, its all just the same skills and stuff.

 

Sorry for taking over the thread from the OP. I am just curios as what the differences are here.   @_@

[Kage]

I didn't do the DRG stuff but I remember previous threads mentioning that the Azure Dragoon has a special skill/jump ability?

[LiveVoltage]

I didn't do the DRG stuff but I remember previous threads mentioning that the Azure Dragoon has a special skill/jump ability?

I wouldn't know about that, unless you were using the Dragoon soul stone as a way to say "Oh, I can jump alot and none of you cane!  :D" but then there are others who RP as summoners, sometimes with other summoners as well so that kinda invalidates the stone being needed to using jump attacks thus the stone is kinda non-lore or something.

 

I think the best way to look at it is that all Dragoons, regardless if they are the Azure Dragoon or not, can use jump based techniques and attacks but the Azure Dragoon is special and is more powerful than the other Dragoons with the same technique.   :I

[Kage]

According to the quest text here http://xivdb.com/?quest/66608/Into-the-Dragon%27s-Maw

 

The drachen mail is something very special and that there -is- an ability that no one but the first Azure Dragoon possessed. Since I haven't done it I can't say -what- it is but there is something that Dragoons can NOT do that only the Azure Dragoon can.

[Kellach Woods]

Warrior would also be kind of hard to justify.

 

The lore for those is essentially they've gone extinct with the exception of Curious Gorge, his brother (lost to the Inner Beast) and the PC, with Gorge and the PC trying to revive the arts of the Warrior.

 

Although the Marauders do recognize the ancient arts of the Warrior (if you visit the guildmaster once you start learning IIRC he'll mention it in passing - at least someone associated with the guild will mention it) so a bit of lorefudging can make this plausible, I assume.

[LiveVoltage]

According to the quest text here http://xivdb.com/?quest/66608/Into-the-Dragon%27s-Maw

 

The drachen mail is something very special and that there -is- an ability that no one but the first Azure Dragoon possessed. Since I haven't done it I can't say -what- it is but there is something that Dragoons can NOT do that only the Azure Dragoon can.

Ah, but by that pretext, it means that it applies ONLY to the first Azure Dragoon.

 

Regardless, there are no special differences between the Azure Dragoon or a normal Dragoon at this point other than that the Azure Dragoon is an exceptional Dragoon amoung other Dragoons. This could mean he/she is more powerful, smarter or whatnot. That can be applied to anything so for lore intensive purposes and generality, there is no real difference between the two.

 

I guess the best way to put it is that the Azure Dragoon is an exceptional Dragoon amoung Dragoon's and leave it at that.   ._.

[Lillith Cale]

Ah, well whats the difference between the two then?   @_@

 

It's better explained in the quest itself, but I believe the Azure Dragoon has some Super Speshul Mojo involved with him.

 

There is only ever one Azure Dragoon at a time.

-snip-

 

I feel the same way in regards to Dragoons as well. The are regular Dragoons and then there is The Azure Dragoon, which I see as someone who has become a pinnacle of what a Dragoon should be and so the title is passed to them because they display the abilities and talents of the very first Azure Dragoon.

[Lillith Cale]

I want to thank everyone who has responded to my thread so far. I really did have some large concerns, but everyone so far has been quite wonderful, and I thank you for your opinions and the way you've cleared up my concern.

[LiadansWhisper]

According to the quest text here http://xivdb.com/?quest/66608/Into-the-Dragon%27s-Maw

 

The drachen mail is something very special and that there -is- an ability that no one but the first Azure Dragoon possessed. Since I haven't done it I can't say -what- it is but there is something that Dragoons can NOT do that only the Azure Dragoon can.

Ah, but by that pretext, it means that it applies ONLY to the first Azure Dragoon.

 

Regardless, there are no special differences between the Azure Dragoon or a normal Dragoon at this point other than that the Azure Dragoon is an exceptional Dragoon amoung other Dragoons. This could mean he/she is more powerful, smarter or whatnot. That can be applied to anything so for lore intensive purposes and generality, there is no real difference between the two.

 

I guess the best way to put it is that the Azure Dragoon is an exceptional Dragoon amoung Dragoon's and leave it at that.   ._.

 

I'm...not entirely sure what you're getting at.  All that's been said here is that because of the stuff that specifically happens in the questline, where the player becomes the Azure Dragoon, it's made clear that there is only ever one Azure Dragoon at a time.  But, there are many other Dragoons who simply aren't the Azure Dragoon.  So it's totally kosher and legit to play a normal, run-of-the-mill Dragoon, but if you try to say you're The Azure Dragoon , you're going to get the stink eye from a lot of people.

[LiveVoltage]

I want to thank everyone who has responded to my thread so far. I really did have some large concerns, but everyone so far has been quite wonderful, and I thank you for your opinions and the way you've cleared up my concern.

You're welcome!

 

@Lidian

Yeah, we already established that. We just wanted to establish what the differences between the two were, and there weren't any other than the fact that the Azure Dragoon is the pinnacle of all Dragoon's and that they virtually share the same skill sets, but with the Azure Dragoon being better at using said skills than others.

[Mercurias]

As I recall, the important thing is that the character, as a Dragoon, not be able to tap into the spirit of the great Elder Dragon within the soul gem and use Dragonfire Dive.

 

I'm not a hundred percent certain on that, but I would assume that the ability to channel the fires of a dragon and make a flaming crater on command would be a bit of a problem.

 

Also, there's a BIG problem with the fighting style of Dragoons when you're indoors: Ceilings. It's hard to jump dozens of feet in the air and drive a lance into your enemies from above when you're hitting your head on the roof.

 

I'm not knocking the job, of course, because outdoors or in grand chambers they would be able to land powerful blows if someone doesn't dodge. It's also one of the best standbys in the series and a hell of a lot of fun to play. Still, though, they're going to be limited inside.

[LiveVoltage]

@Mercu

No, normal Dragoons can use the fire dive as well, only the more powerful ones though, including the Azure Dragoon, who can use it by default.

[Seriphyn]

Jobs are right popular, to the point I wouldn't mind specifically looking out for roleplayers who have no interest in it. Most sword users I've come across are paladins IC (Sultansworn or free paladin) instead of just a gladiator, like my character. Most fistfighters use the DBZ style chakras, making them monks instead of straightforward pugilists. And most lancers are dragoons, regardless of whether or not they're from Ishgard (which makes my character go "so you're just a lancer, then). The exception is magic users, who by and large stick with the base classes.

 

Sometimes being mundane can be just as unique and interesting as being uberpowerful!