Personal Housing Thread 2.0

[Flickering Ember]

But no perk of housing is absolutely necessary. My point is that the ONLY thing that stood out to make being in an FC "worth it" was the housing option and the extra chat slot.

What's 'necessary' is completely subjective based on any given player's desires. You might not like doing dungeons but that doesn't mean there's not a hefty amount of players eager to run them over and over again. 

 

The developers have already announced that they'll be adding the ability for players to build their own airships within their houses in the future, so that's yet another appealing feature that will be locked behind an artificial barrier should the housing shortage not be resolved by that point.

 

Hunting down achievements in WoW and FFXIV isn't 'necessary' by your definition though countless players players invest in those features regardless and they enjoy it. If you don't care for housing, fine - just please stop acting like your word is law and that nobody should care for it if they're so inclined to enjoy such in-game features.

 

In the loosest of terms, sure, content is subjective. If you consider chocobo dye to be content, we just disagree. It has no impact on gameplay outside of vanity. It's a step above free-to-play cash shop options.

 

I use the word "necessary" to imply you're not barred from playing the game in any way without a house. You lose access to personal land to garden on and the ability to hold a stable, which is fair. To repeat it in case it wasn't clear, I agree that they dd a shitty job making housing available.

 

Regarding airships, though: We have no idea what content will be used with them. If it's a multi-million gil timesink requiring all crafts to 50 and 4* synths and all it grants you is a different travel CS out of the cities, do you think it makes sense for a single person to build their own airship? It's meant to be something you work for, not something handed to you.

 

For players like me, the vanity options -are- the game. I'm not sure how the ability to make my armor match, dye my clothes and my chocobo, and design the interior of my room aren't gameplay features. What I mean though is, for some folks getting two star crafting or being able to run dungeons and/or raids are gameplay features that keep that player subscribing for another 15$ a month. For people like me, the acquisition of vanity is appealing.

 

As others have stated, the real issue is availability here. Even when the additional wards are introduced, there are still enough people on the server to see a complete house buyout shortly after servers are up again. 

 

Is it really fair to the players who have lives who can't stay up until 4 am just to camp out and grab a house? Just so they can be able to continue pursuing the features of the game they enjoy the most?

[Naunet]

But saying "it's in the game so I should have it if I want" removes needing to work for it. If my idea of playing the game is wearing a Thug's Mug and Mandervilling on top of Tataru, I've gotta do the MSQ and requisite side story to get there.

 

I realize, of course, you're not arguing otherwise. I really do feel for the people who were willing to buy homes but were unable because of supply/demand.

 

Why are you arguing against points no one has made?

[C'kayah Polaali]

But saying "it's in the game so I should have it if I want" removes needing to work for it. If my idea of playing the game is wearing a Thug's Mug and Mandervilling on top of Tataru, I've gotta do the MSQ and requisite side story to get there.

I don't think that's what anyone's saying, Warren. What's frustrating isn't that those of us without FC (or personal) homes don't have them because we didn't work hard enough. What's frustrating is that we don't have them despite having done all the prerequisites. It is exactly as if we'd just completed a very long quest and at the end it says "Sorry, no quest rewards are left."

[Warren Castille]

 

As others have stated, the real issue is availability here. Even when the additional wards are introduced, there are still enough people on the server to see a complete house buyout shortly after servers are up again. 

 

Is it really fair to the players who have lives who can't stay up until 4 am just to camp out and grab a house? Just so they can be able to continue pursuing the features of the game they enjoy the most?

 

The grognard in me wants to spout about HNMs and Kings camps and the like, but that's not productive. You'd be hard pressed to find anybody who disagrees with these points, though.

[Kage]

I have a life (I think) and I just patch the game while they take it down for the patch overnight and wake up at 4am because I actually wake up around that time. ... ok maybe I don't have a life since I play this game for like 7 hours on average.

 

Yoshi-p's post didn't say that the doubling of wards is the definitive amount of wards that are being added but that they knew they needed to work really hard in adding wards and that's their first big step.

 

The development team has been making the most of limited server resources to develop a new system that will allow us to add as many new housing plots as possible

 

(I mean really they are going from 5 wards to ~12 or 16? in about 3 months? I forgot when Ward 6 was dropped)

 

Stay tuned to fanfest and or around the same time for when 2.4 drops as he said he will be posting an update before 2.4

[Dravus]

The issue isn't that people aren't prepared to work towards accessing housing it's that it's virtually impossible to actually work towards it in the first place for the vast majority of players. Someone isn't 'more exclusive' just because they happened to play eighteen hours a day, seven days a week and managed to scrape together ten million gil whilst also being lucky enough to get online with no issue during a very tiny window of time when the last patch went live.

 

So far there's no indication that anything will change - they'll be adding a few new wards with 2.4 but as far as we can see it's going to be a repeat of what has happened each time a new ward has been added. It's not even a smart move from a business perspective either as appealing to the majority is better than the vocal minority who want to sit and brag about being one of the lucky few to have a house of their own in the first place.

[Warren Castille]

Someone isn't 'more exclusive' just because they happened to play eighteen hours a day, seven days a week and managed to scrape together ten million gil whilst also being lucky enough to get online with no issue during a very tiny window of time when the last patch went live.

 

1ex·clu·sive

adjective \iks-ˈklü-siv, -ziv\

 

: not shared : available to only one person or group

 

By definition of the word. These are the people who want your houses; Compete or go without.

 

Until there's enough wards in the game that people aren't filling them up anymore, this is the lay of the land.

[Kage]

Until there's enough wards in the game that people aren't filling them up anymore, this is the lay of the land.

The way FFXIV is, I doubt there's ever going to be one house plot for every member type of deal. If they view it as an achievement there's always going to be some type of achievement.

 

But it definitely needs to be at a point where you are competing to get in line that determines what nice plot you got and not whether or not you can ever get one. The line shouldn't take months. it's definitely an issue when 2 Wards fill up in ~1-2 hours on a populated server.

[Dravus]

Forcing players to compete for something that is highly desirable and pretty standard in the industry is just silly. It's not even their intention to force players to compete for a house of their own, they just haven't gotten around to upgrading the servers in order to handle the unexpected success of FFXIV.

 

It also spawns a toxic community with players placing themselves on a pedestal for being one of the lucky few to be able to log on at a specific time to purchase a house and then ramble about it being 'tough luck' that people with real life commitments at the time couldn't attempt the same thing.

 

There's no 'achievement' in logging on at a specific time and date. Nor is that something to applaud when it serves to poison the community.

[Warren Castille]

Forcing players to compete for something that is highly desirable and pretty standard in the industry is just silly. It's not even their intention to force players to compete for a house of their own, they just haven't gotten around to upgrading the servers in order to handle the unexpected success of FFXIV.

 

It also spawns a toxic community with players placing themselves on a pedestal for being one of the lucky few to be able to log on at a specific time to purchase a house and then ramble about it being 'tough luck' that people with real life commitments at the time couldn't attempt the same thing.

 

There's no 'achievement' in logging on at a specific time and date.

 

You would have haaaaated the fishing weeklies in WoW, then.

 

Your monthly fee doesn't entitle you to everything. It's unfortunate, but someone's gotta say it. If you want a house, you've got to want it more than the people who ARE logging out in front of the zoneline and waking up at 3:30am and spamming refresh on the log-in screen. Otherwise, you're waiting until the demand has died down.

 

And we all agree it sucks.

[Naunet]

You would have haaaaated the fishing weeklies in WoW, then.

 

Your monthly fee doesn't entitle you to everything. It's unfortunate, but someone's gotta say it. If you want a house, you've got to want it more than the people who ARE logging out in front of the zoneline and waking up at 3:30am and spamming refresh on the log-in screen. Otherwise, you're waiting until the demand has died down.

 

Please, please point me to the MMO trend where fishing weeklies designed as a racing competition are established as standard, available to everyone content, as housing is.

[Dravus]

I'm actually a huge fan of WoW's model and play it regularly. Blizzard are open and honest about their intentions for the game and they make it crystal clear as to what aspects of the game are designed for the 'hardcore' and will be 'exclusive'. They also regularly keep players up to date with exactly what to expect with each new patch, sometimes months in advance.

 

FFXIV, unfortunately, only does that to an extent - and after receiving very little information in regards to player housing a significant number of players saw fit to take the early statements at face value.

 

Either way a single weekly quest does not compare to something as massively anticipated as player housing which can be customised extensively and encourages player investment.

[Phayte]

You would have haaaaated the fishing weeklies in WoW, then.

 

Your monthly fee doesn't entitle you to everything. It's unfortunate, but someone's gotta say it. If you want a house, you've got to want it more than the people who ARE logging out in front of the zoneline and waking up at 3:30am and spamming refresh on the log-in screen. Otherwise, you're waiting until the demand has died down.

 

And we all agree it sucks.

 

This reminds me of people on the night before Black Friday in tents camping out infront of a door. No matter which side you're on (fine or un-fine), there always holes to poke in arguments. Fine, there's a finite quantity. Would you be happy if there was a finite quantities of relics nexus because we can't render all the shiniess? First 10 people to grind 1000 runs of Cape Westwind. Cause well, you don't need one, there's tons of other weapons too that are the same ilvl. (Just giving an example.)

 

I'm upset about the whole thing and there really isn't much we can do unless the devs change their minds, but I think everyone just wants a chance to express their displeasure. Attempting to downplay another person's priorities or the importance of a feature is usually a bad idea and normally ends up just makes things go down a bad path on both parties.

 

I always try to keep the philosophy of looking towards a solution rather than dwelling on the problem. If we stay quiet, nothing ever changes. If we complain, at least they'll consider approaching things differently from the feature.

 

Coming up with ideas to give to post on the official forum, or giving RP'er alternatives (I remember seeing someone with personal housing willing to share), and whatever else would be more productive.

[Warren Castille]

Please, please point me to the MMO trend where fishing weeklies designed as a racing competition are established as standard, available to everyone content, as housing is.

 

 

 

Either way a single weekly quest does not compare to something as massively anticipated as player housing which can be customised extensively and encourages player investment.

 

Subjective. Like I said, this is a slippery slope. There are fishing-stat exclusive items that come from those dailies so as someone who's only interested in fishing, I should be allowed to compete. It's not fair I can't be online.

 

See what I mean? I don't really subscribe to that opinion, but how is it any less valid than what's being said in this thread?

[Kage]

The thing is... 6 Wards... 12 Wards.. 16 wards.. that's not going to be the end all be all to housing. They're going to keep adding more. From the statement I linked and quoted, they're hoping that they will get a system up that seems to aim to get housing up that will be much more servable to the population. It's. just. going. to. take. time.

[Berrod Armstrong]

Hmm. 

 

I think it's up to us at this point. Square has plotted out the lay of the land, and we have a clear picture of how things are going to be. So! 

 

Players can decide to risk the grind and rush, knowing fully well that they may not necessarily get what they're working for. All in the concept of risk, really! 

 

Players can give up and seek other things in the game -- because wow there's a lot! 

 

Players can also give up and seek out the housing they want that seems 'standard' in every other MMO, in other MMOS with 'better business models', run by devs who don't 'lie'* to them. As consumers, they have that power -- if it's not satisfying, look elsewhere. To continue to consume something so allegedly unsatisfactory really makes all points made against it background noise. Sure, you have the choice to consume, always! But uh...if there's really much better else out there...?

 

I think everyone's arguments have merit. I agree with a lot, I disagree with some, and learned a thing or two. I know though, that I'm pretty bloody happy enough with the game to risk the grind and rush, AND still play if I don't succeed, because I'm just that satisfied with everything else. I wouldn't play with something I was dissatisfied with at all. But that's just me!

 

The thing is, we've seen how it's going to be. They've laid out their intentions, and I hope they learned now that a failure to constantly update can be vehemently percieved as a lie*, malicious or otherwise. Points are flying around and argument is in full swing and going in a couple circles. But! What's everyone going to do? When the dust settles on this thread, how does each player intend to treat the situation?

 

Dissect as necessary, but in the end, you still gotta decide how to go forward.

 

*saying something and not updating the outdated information, whether by forgetfulness or folly

[Dravus]

Please, please point me to the MMO trend where fishing weeklies designed as a racing competition are established as standard, available to everyone content, as housing is.

 

 

 

Either way a single weekly quest does not compare to something as massively anticipated as player housing which can be customised extensively and encourages player investment.

 

Subjective. Like I said, this is a slippery slope. There are fishing-stat exclusive items that come from those dailies so as someone who's only interested in fishing, I should be allowed to compete. It's not fair I can't be online.

 

See what I mean? I don't really subscribe to that opinion, but how is it any less valid than what's being said in this thread?

 

 

It's not really subjective in the way in which you're trying to present it as being. For starters the quest repeats every single week whilst in FFXIV you have to wait three months on average for a new patch and the increase in the number of housing wards and plots.

 

A weekly quest for fishing is by no means comparable to something as highly desirable as player housing. A lot of people may like fishing, sure - but it's unlikely to be something that the masses feel strongly about. Player housing, on the other hand, is typically something that is incredibly highly anticipated as evidenced by this very same discussion playing out across many FFXIV related sites.

[Warren Castille]

Silly to use "on average" when there's only ever been one increase and we'll be getting another one in 2.4, but alright. I'll concede the point.

 

Hunting down achievements in WoW and FFXIV isn't 'necessary' by your definition though countless players players invest in those features regardless and they enjoy it. If you don't care for housing, fine - just please stop acting like your word is law and that nobody should care for it if they're so inclined to enjoy such in-game features.

 

Should probably stop telling me the fishing contest doesn't count, then.

[Naunet]

Subjective. Like I said, this is a slippery slope. There are fishing-stat exclusive items that come from those dailies so as someone who's only interested in fishing, I should be allowed to compete. It's not fair I can't be online.

 

There is no limit to the number of people who can compete in the fishing weeklies.

 

No slippery slope here, even though you keep trying to insist on it.

[Warren Castille]

Subjective. Like I said, this is a slippery slope. There are fishing-stat exclusive items that come from those dailies so as someone who's only interested in fishing, I should be allowed to compete. It's not fair I can't be online.

 

There is no limit to the number of people who can compete in the fishing weeklies.

 

No slippery slope here, even though you keep trying to insist on it.

 

There's similarly no limit to the number of people who can be online trying to grab a house when the gun goes off.

[Dravus]

As I said it doesn't count in the way in which you're trying to claim it does. You're free to agree to disagree, of course, but as someone who has invested in quite a number of different MMO's over the years and currently devotes my MMO time between FFXIV and WoW I'd like to think I'm reasonably aware of the popularity of specific in-game activities and features within the MMO's that I've played.

[Naunet]

Players can also give up and seek out the housing they want that seems 'standard' in every other MMO, in other MMOS with 'better business models', run by devs who don't 'lie'* to them. As consumers, they have that power -- if it's not satisfying, look elsewhere. 

 

This is what I have done. And I couldn't be happier. Farewell, crappy XIV housing.

 

There's similarly no limit to the number of people who can be online trying to grab a house when the gun goes off.

 

The fishing weeklies are a competition. By nature, a competition only has a few winners. Housing is not a competition in any reasonable MMO, except for making bigger and grander displays - not to just get in the door. Attempting to equate fishing weeklies with a massive development feature that can hook people to a game for a long period of time and gives them an established place of their own in the game world is like saying that a pebble is the same as an apple.

[Kage]

The thing is... 6 Wards... 12 Wards.. 16 wards.. that's not going to be the end all be all to housing. They're going to keep adding more. From the statement I linked and quoted, they're hoping that they will get a system up that seems to aim to get housing up that will be much more servable to the population. It's. just. going. to. take. time.

 

Yoshi-p's post didn't say that the doubling of wards is the definitive amount of wards that are being added but that they knew they needed to work really hard in adding wards and that's their first big step.

The development team has been making the most of limited server resources to develop a new system that will allow us to add as many new housing plots as possible

Stay tuned to fanfest and or around the same time for when 2.4 drops as he said he will be posting an update before 2.4

[Dravus]

It's great that they're prepared to add more wards. It is, unfortunately, simply a case of sticking a bandage on a wound without first disinfecting it. It'll help to an extent but the core issue of too many players and not enough houses will still rear its ugly head with each new patch.

 

Which, I assume, is precisely why this debate is taking place - so we can get together and vent, share ideas and then hopefully piece potential solutions together to post on the official forum. The whole angle of trying to tell other players what they should want out of FFXIV isn't really helping nor is it particularly constructive.

 

A healthy community boasts people from all sorts of different backgrounds and with all sorts of different desires. Sometimes they align, sometimes they don't. It shouldn't be rocket science and we've already had this particular debate censored once already, I'd hate to see that happen again; especially in a community that loves to market itself as open, friendly, tolerant and welcoming.

[Warren Castille]

As I said it doesn't count in the way in which you're trying to claim it does. You're free to agree to disagree, of course, but as someone who has invested in quite a number of different MMO's over the years and currently devotes my MMO time between FFXIV and WoW I'd like to think I'm reasonably aware of the popularity of specific in-game activities and features within the MMO's that I've played.

 

I think the Great Housing Battle of 2014 will be a footnote in a decade, just like the fishing contest is now. We're discussing peak-interest, though. Of COURSE the fishing contest that's now years old is going to be under populated. It's no different than Gurubashi Arena now, where you're lucky to see one or two people camping the box. Doesn't mean it wasn't highly contested before, though, just like houses are.

 

We're getting really off course, though, and I'm not trying to make this into the argument it's becoming. Hard to tell, I know, but I'm just saying that in a patch or two it should be water under the bridge.

 

I'm reading these posts and can remember clearly the same things being leveraged with the log-in issues at launch, the 90k issues in early access, Titan Hard Mode, etc.