So I want to RP a Villain...

[Tiergan]

Anyone have advice on how to go about it? The character I have is a Duskwight elezen who is a Dravanian Heretic. He and his brother started off falsely accused before simply deciding to make the accusations of heresy a reality out of bitter spite and accepting the label.

 

I know for the most part that a villain is really just the same as any other character, just with a different set of goals and motivations, but I still am having trouble sorting out how to engage people with a character who is inherently kind of antagonistic. Do I just... do the same thing I do with my not-villain characters? Am I over-thinking stuff?

[Boo the Hamster]

The best villains are those who you think are your best friend.

 

In essence, act like a good character. Be subtle about being evil. An intelligent villain is one who doesn't show their full hand until their plan is already in motion, when there's no reason to hide it anymore. Just because you're evil doesn't mean you can't be nice to have tools that are useful.

[Tiergan]

I do definitely want a relatable villain as opposed to a twirly mustache villain that's a jerk for the sake of being evil, so that sounds nifty to me.

[Marisa]

OH. MY. GOD!

 

I'm an Ishgardian witch hunter! You could be my nemesis! We could have a never-ending game of cat and mouse where you always get away like the honorless fiend you are >

[Tiergan]

You'll never get me, Captain Planet!

 

:evil:

 

(In all seriousness, that sounds awesome. :V)

[Boo the Hamster]

What's funny is that was what my character was going to be like before, well, everything happened in RP.

 

Still, be careful with the heretic route. There will be a time where eventually you /will/ end up as the raving mad Harrier, or eventually turn into an Aevis yourself. At least, if you go down that path, that's what I think should happen, but who's to say if you involve the Echo or what not.

[Dasair]

So I will start off saying I absolutely love morally ambiguous characters, not because they're necessarily good people, or even anyone I'd ever want to meet, but merely because I am a fan of grey-scale over black-and-white dichotomy.  I've played a number of villains and morally grey characters, and had a fair amount of fun with it, mostly because seeing them grow, and seeing how they cause others to grow, is really fascinating.  

 

That said, here are my opinions on more questionable characters, that you can take or ignore if you'd like. :>   

 

First of all, if you want to play a villain, make sure he's got reasons for his more questionable acts.  You mentioned spite in there, but spite (as well as most things that gets people into moral quandaries) typically comes out of someone believing that what they're doing is somehow justified, or with a purpose.  In that sense, I agree with the "don't just go with 'evil for evil's sake' " idea, as was previously mentioned.  Instead, work out what led him to where he is further (like what you said with the accusations), and have an idea of what he's thinking when he does the things he does.  What is his actual faith like?  What is he trying to prove, and how is he going to do it?  Does he see everyone as judging him now?  Are there exceptions?  Does he see himself as someone acting out and truly wanting to be treated like a person (knowing what he's doing is bad, but thinks what others are doing is worse), or someone detaching themselves so far from reality to instead embody an idea they think everyone (or even a select few) need to bear witness to in order to 'learn something'?  I think answering those last few questions for him will help with how you might think of approaching other characters with him.  

 

Antagonistic characters are my favorites; they're the ones that 'set the spark' more often than not, I don't doubt you'll be able to pull off something fun and interesting both.  :>

[Verranicus]

You don't even need to label yourself as a villain. My character could more or less fit into the 'good guy' archetype, except he's got such hatred for Ishgardians due to past events that he'd gladly see every one of them dead and their cities burnt to the ground (and he may or may not be plotting some domestic terrorism towards those ends).

 

That said, only one person knows about his feelings towards Ishgard and everyone else he's encountered would be hard pressed to think of him as anything more than a somewhat abrasive know-it-all. To the outside world he's no different from any other adventurer, even though behind the scenes he may be working towards more nefarious ends.

 

And even then the act would be completely justified in his (possibly damaged) mind, so he doesn't see himself as a villain at all.

[Verad]

Come up with plans that require other people getting hurt.

 

Find people who want to get hurt. RP that to further your plans.

 

It doesn't really have to be justifiable in some form; RPers are eager to justify your bad behavior for you. Even a very flimsy excuse will be sufficient to get RPers defending your right to eat puppies as a necessary evil being done for the greater good.

[Tiergan]

What's funny is that was what my character was going to be like before, well, everything happened in RP.

 

Still, be careful with the heretic route. There will be a time where eventually you /will/ end up as the raving mad Harrier, or eventually turn into an Aevis yourself. At least, if you go down that path, that's what I think should happen, but who's to say if you involve the Echo or what not.

 

Is there any lore info on heretics? Do they ALL go raving bonkers or only some of them? The guy in the MSQ seemed fairly lucid and only turned into a dragon when cornered.

[Titor]

Titor usually ends up getting hurt a lot since he is kind of sickly and scrawny. His entire value comes out of his knowledge of geometries and the aether, but if you prevent him from using his book and drawing geometries he has like no other way to defend himself short of flailing the best he can.

 

I would probably volunteer him to get hurt again if you/someone else wants to develop their character more into the evil/bad-guy/villain type. Just PM me first and we can probably work something out.

[Gaspard]

Villainy is a story-telling concept. The 'bad guy' in every story is but the person people must feel animosity towards, as he's who the hero must overcome. It's a simple concept that has been used also in politics to a great deal. 'We the heroes, must liberate this villainy infested nation'.

 

In roleplay-terms, there's usually two ways to go about villainy. Subscribe your character to one of the, as 'evil' established agendas in the game/story (In Star wars, that'd be becoming a 'Sith',) In Final fantasy it may be serving the Garleans, or any other antagonistic faction/group you can find.

 

Or, take the second route, and establish your character as a 'villain' towards a group of 'heroes'. Find a group of goodie-two-shoes looking for a villain.

 

 

Overall however, I don't..suggest creating a character just because you want that 'Villain' vybe. I've been playing, throughout the majority of my roleplay career only non-hero characters. Antagonists, side characters, neutral characters, straighout villains and anti-heroes. Usually, Heroes are the noble, strong figures that subscribe to 'taking the high road' of love, compassion, and whatever pop-culture values currently are upheld. The moment you subscribe yourself to a 'good' cause, while still adhering to a moral code in your actions (do not kill, do not torture is an example), you have a fledged hero at your hand.

 

Playing a villain simply means substracting one of those points. A Hero without a good cause is a side character. He can't 'take the spotlight' of heroism, because he has nothing to fight for. He has morals, so he will 'protect', but he wont be in a spotlight, as he's not yet subscribed to a greater cause.

 

Take from him Morals, but keep the cause, and you've got yourself your anti-hero. Willing to ignore moral standards to get the job done. Ends justify means etc.

 

Take both, and you've got someone focused solely on his own, individualistic gain. No morals to tell him 'you must be good to others', no cause to make him do good things for others, in the end means he'll be an egoistical civilian at best, or full blown megalomaniac at worst.

 

 

Anyway.. this is a very roughl set of examples, not really good either. If you really want to, perhaps jumpstart a few ideas, I suggest tvtropes.org. While it's written at most in a comedical light, alot of the tropes simply exist and can help you steer your character in the direction you want to.

 

 

As a footnote, I'd like to add that, outside of fiction, true Villainy and Heroism seldom exist. A good example is Genghis Khan. The whole world all-around considers him one of the most brutal, vile warlords of his age, with women having plunged themselves off the cliffs of their village rather then suffer what his men would do to them when they'd reach their village. One of his most famous lines was 'I am gods wrath. If you would not have sinned, god would have not sent a punishment like me upon you'. Though I might be paraphrasing it.

 

At the same time, he's seen as a folklore hero in Mongolia, as his conquering established the silk road connections, and he was also known as perhaps one of the first 'religiously open' historical figures. He allowed anyone to follow whatever religion they chose to, aslong they didn't dare tread upon mongolian faith.

 

Same person, same acts, two entirely different ways to view him.

[Avalt Laguz]

For reference;

 

 

V9xLoTXC5fk

 

 

LMi2Il6iRks

 

and also

 

 

VAGhKlhtJ-g

 

TL;DR - Get Danny Delk to voice your character.

[Warren Castille]

The only trap I'd watch out for is the social one. As soon as your character commits to villainy and it becomes known, you're (likely) going to lose access to the social hubs attached to it. For example, if you end up gutting someone in Gridania, you're likely not going to be hanging out in the city and continuing to RP.

 

There was a thread a while back about how villains need a neutral, lawless-ish territory to hang out in. I agree. It pains me to see people who play open, antagonistic forces hanging out in the Quicksand like nothing's happening and they're untouchable. Not only is it offensive to the folks playing lawmen and women (*cough*) but it's just silly considering it's right down the street from the Flames' offices.

[Gaspard]

Well, there could be an argument made that Law enforcers have absolutely no place in Bars during duty, especially Sultansworn, and that the Ingame mapping of Eorzea isn't truly fit to emulate a 'real city', given it's small size. The Flames office might very well be half a district away from the Quicksand, if not for the ingame limitations of depicting a city-fortress.

 

At the same time however  I agree with the Open, antagonistic forces bit. In almost 'every' story, your typical antagonist/villain is forced to secrecy in public in regards to his doings, and once this secrecy is blown, they're forced into obscurity and out of the public view. There's a reason Villains in stories take to alter-egos and masks, simply because without them, with their true identity exposed, their villainy in broad-daylight, they would draw the vengeance of the morally sound characters in a heartbeat.

[Sophia_Grave]

I find that you can't really engage other players as a villain without a plot already established. Unless the interaction is integral to the villain's goals, it winds up being no different than normal. Try not to approach the RP with the intent to do wrong; instead, just be true to the character and remind yourself of what they want, then turn to morally questionable methods to get the goal. But again, if the interaction has nothing to do with those goals, there is little reason for your character to misbehave. If you really want to be an antagonist, you need a plot.

[C'kayah Polaali]

There are a number of good points in this thread, and I'd only add a couple of points that largely draw from my own experience playing villains.

 

Villains seldom consider themselves villains. This is the biggie. The stereotypical moustache-twirling villain knows they're a villain and they get off on it. These people, as has been pointed out, don't really exist outside of stories. Come up with a motivation for your hero that allows them to feel like the good guy. Or at least righteous.

 

In my opinion, there are two basic types of roleplay: Top-down and bottom-up. Top-down roleplay has a storyteller that comes up with a plot, and people play within that plot. A good example is Askier with his very large and engaging plots. Bottom-up roleplay doesn't have a storyteller, and the plot springs up out of the unplanned interactions of the characters. Most tavern RP is bottom-up, but you can get some pretty interesting stories that develop in this style, too. In the real world, I'd argue that there's no such thing as a plot that lives squarely in one category or the other. They're a blend, leaning one way or the other.

 

I bring these categories up because they really affect how you play and portray your villain. In a heavily top-down story, the storyteller has strong control over how things progress, and they frequently want a villain who's clearly recognizable as such for the story. These villains can be much more standard moustache-twirling - not always, of course! I mentioned Askier as an example of someone who does a lot of top-down RP. For those of you who've participated in them, ask yourself if Askier is the villain in those stories.

 

In bottom-up RP, you rely on your ability to interact randomly with people for RP. It's hard to do this if everyone recognizes you as a villain, so this is a circumstance where you'd want to make your villain less recognizable. Less cut-and-dried. I do a lot of bottom-up RP, so I'm pretty careful to make sure that C'kayah never stands on top of a table and yells "You shall all grovel at my feet, or my name isn't Doctor Evil!" Instead, he lives much more in the grey area. In his mind, he's the hero of his story. What's more, he's very likable. This is always a good characteristic to have in a villain. If your villain is likable, then they'll draw people's sympathy in a story (which makes things more engaging for the players), as well as stirring the pot more because they'll get so many unlikely allies ("What? No! They couldn't have done that! They're so nice! And they tip well!").

 

Another aspect of not making your character recognizable as a villain is simply not doing anything that convinces people you're a villain. With C'kayah, I enjoy the sort of RP where he has to dodge the law and the like. Because of this, I do crime RP out in public (in out of the way places) to allow people the chance to overhear. At the same time, I try not to discuss major crimes while sitting in the Quicksand within listening range of a bunch of Sultansworn. Because I do a lot of bottom-up RP, it becomes a balancing act. You don't want to go too far towards the secrecy direction because then no one has a chance to notice anything, but you don't want to go too far towards the public-act direction because then everyone knows you're Doctor Evil. This is one of the more fun aspects of playing a villain, because it's so immediate. I'm not simply playing C'kayah. I'm also putting myself in his head as he tries to get away with crimes without getting caught, and it's never entirely in his control!

 

Playing a villain is a lot of fun, and I hope you enjoy it.

[Askier]

Tiergan wants to be a villain?  YAY~!  *Dances with excitement*

 

Well Tiergan, most of these people here have already offered stellar advice and covered most of the points I could have gone over so I'll offer personal experience instead to give you a glimpse into the hive of scum and villainy you are about to tread.

 

C'kayah brought up a very good point about bottom-up and top-down.  No matter what stye you pick, having a pre-set plot for your villain, even if it's just a goal, is vital or else the character can get lost.  Whether its form a criminal empire or blow up a city,  you need a goal to aim for so that people can try to counter the goal, thus creating the wonderful conflict I thrive on. 

 

Now one thing to be aware of, is that being a baddy does tend to limit the types of rp open to you at times depending on your character.  Askier, during his bomb plot, was found out and open about it.  For about a month, his rp consisted of evading cops, trying to recruit people, and complaining to anyone who knew his goal about how much work it all was.  Now this was great for conflict, and Kahn'a and I had the awesome game of cat-and-mouse going on in Ul'dah but I couldn't tavern rp anymore, not that I do much of that anyhow.

 

If you want your character to have a social life outside their goals, take C'kayah's route.  Sure C'kayah has Osric glaring at him, but he can't prove anything and C'kayah can enjoy himself in the Quicksand.  But the rub of this is that if -no one- knows what you are planning, they can't try and stop you.  And once someone does know, word spreads, and eventually, your character ends up in Askier's shoes for awhile.

 

This was how I played Jin'li.  He was a slow burn.  He walked around Ul'dah, chatting and being-kind- as he did his deeds.  Word of him slowly spread as more and more people learned about his actions.  Eventually my available rp options ended up like Askier's.  Fun but limited.

 

Also, the biggest issue is, expect to be thwarted and eventually have to pay for your crimes.  This happens.  Sooner or later everyone loses.  Osric lost to Jin'li, just as Jin'li lost and died to Osric later.  People are out to stop you and even if you are stopped, and are given a trial, and fake your own death, and then become a Flame, like Askier, there is a stigma your character will forever bear.  It's a strange sensation, but it will happen.  Even to this day Askier is discriminated against in character for his actions byt other PC's and that is an organic development but can be tough if you aren't ready for it because you'll love to grow your 'villain' and seeing this not work out for them social can be disheartening.

 

That's just a bit of insight.  Hope it helps you with your character development. 

 

Aslo if you need a bomb maker...Askier currently available for hire.  :roll:

 

Also "Good" and "Evil" are subjective and never once did I think of Askier or Jin'li as villains, but, rather, tragic heroes.  One of the best 'villians' I ever rped was a paladin trying to stop a group of cultists.  If you consider yourself an 'antagonist' versus a 'villain' you get to have more fun, least I think so.

[Warren Castille]

Also, the biggest issue is, expect to be thwarted and eventually have to pay for your crimes.  This happens.  Sooner or later everyone loses.  Osric lost to Jin'li, just as Jin'li lost and died to Osric later.  People are out to stop you and even if you are stopped, and are given a trial, and fake your own death, and then become a Flame, like Askier, there is a stigma your character will forever bear.  It's a strange sensation, but it will happen.  Even to this day Askier is discriminated against in character for his actions byt other PC's and that is an organic development but can be tough if you aren't ready for it because you'll love to grow your 'villain' and seeing this not work out for them social can be disheartening.

 

Everyone ever signing on to play a villain-type should be forced to read this and sign a document stating they've read it.

[Aya]

Not only is it offensive to the folks playing lawmen and women

Its also annoying to people playing the every-day sorts who such villains tend to prey upon, who are essentially unable to have protection from them.

 

I would think villains would be able to gather at any major area outside of the city-state capitals.  It may require a little stretch to imagine that a heinous and wanted outlaw could sit down for a drink at Drybone, but it seems vastly more appropriate than Ul'dah itself

 

Wouldn't Mor Dhana be an area that such types could gather without much fear of being apprehended? Just blending in with the adventurers?

[Gaspard]

I think a good idea would be to create an area actually controlled and nurtured by villa villainous types. For ine, anything outsode of the major cities should be fine. Think goblet and the outskirts of ul'dah (coffer and coffin etc), then theres always an option to go tortuga. As in pirates of the carribean tortuga. Something in asimilar veign should work splendidly.

[Gaspard]

also, all typos where provided to you by nokia lumia. Connecting people like vodka does.

 

 

i hate this phone.

[Verranicus]

Not only is it offensive to the folks playing lawmen and women

Its also annoying to people playing the every-day sorts who such villains tend to prey upon, who are essentially unable to have protection from them.

 

I would think villains would be able to gather at any major area outside of the city-state capitals.  It may require a little stretch to imagine that a heinous and wanted outlaw could sit down for a drink at Drybone, but it seems vastly more appropriate than Ul'dah itself

 

Wouldn't Mor Dhana be an area that such types could gather without much fear of being apprehended? Just blending in with the adventurers?

The best villain is the one you don't know exists. =P So I don't see a reaosn why the nefariously-inclined shouldn't be allowed to hang out at the hotspots as long as they're not cackling and twirling their mustaches in public.

[Warren Castille]

Not only is it offensive to the folks playing lawmen and women

Its also annoying to people playing the every-day sorts who such villains tend to prey upon, who are essentially unable to have protection from them.

 

I would think villains would be able to gather at any major area outside of the city-state capitals.  It may require a little stretch to imagine that a heinous and wanted outlaw could sit down for a drink at Drybone, but it seems vastly more appropriate than Ul'dah itself

 

Wouldn't Mor Dhana be an area that such types could gather without much fear of being apprehended? Just blending in with the adventurers?

The best villain is the one you don't know exists. =P So I don't see a reaosn why the nefariously-inclined shouldn't be allowed to hang out at the hotspots as long as they're not cackling and twirling their mustaches in public.

 

Agreed, actually. I just ask that once someone's a known villain they drop walking around like they're untouchable in public spaces.

[Aya]

Not only is it offensive to the folks playing lawmen and women

Its also annoying to people playing the every-day sorts who such villains tend to prey upon, who are essentially unable to have protection from them.

 

I would think villains would be able to gather at any major area outside of the city-state capitals.  It may require a little stretch to imagine that a heinous and wanted outlaw could sit down for a drink at Drybone, but it seems vastly more appropriate than Ul'dah itself

 

Wouldn't Mor Dhana be an area that such types could gather without much fear of being apprehended? Just blending in with the adventurers?

The best villain is the one you don't know exists. =P So I don't see a reaosn why the nefariously-inclined shouldn't be allowed to hang out at the hotspots as long as they're not cackling and twirling their mustaches in public.

Yeah,  I don't think anyone disagrees with that. It's just obnoxious ones that are publicly villainous and then act like nothing can happen to them when they sit down for a drink at the quick sand.  Fortunately it's not that common but I have ignored someone doing so before :-X