Decisions Made to Promote a "better" story

[Kage]

So I've been binge-watching The Wire a show that had 5 seasons. Mostly it dealt with several factions: Drug trade, cops, politicians, and the press. It has Lance Reddick (Fringe), Wood Harris (Remember the Titans, Dredd), and Idris Elba (Pacific Rim mainly). Oh an Diedre Lovejoy who I liked in Bones. And one of the detectives is a lesbian so yay for me.

 

Anyway I just passed a point where a young man was killed by the drug crew he used to hang with. It's a little bit of a remarkable moment and later I read an article about what this death meant and -why-.

 

But there's something that the series creator mentioned about his death that I thought was really apt to RPing (or not?).  He hated to see the character die but the story came first. The story came first.

 

So I'm curious, have you made decisions to promote a better story? Did your characters ever go through something that, while it would not have been 100% in character at the time, would enrich the story? I'm not saying complete 180 but did you have to think of a way to steer your character a certain way to make it in character with the ultimate reason being a better story?

 

((You have no idea how much I was trying to imagine something like a Wire tap crew investigation working on a big drug trade organization like the Barksdale Organization or the Co-Op. @_@ Complete with Brass Blades of Ul'dah and some Maelstrom made high-potency drugs or something. And codes.))

[gfdhg]

It honestly depends on what your idea of what a better story could or would look like. No one like fridging a character, especially one that's liked, but sometimes - sacrifices do, and can be made for the sake of progression.

 

I feel like characters can sometimes be used as plot devices for progression, usually from all of their actions but hey, even death can work.

 

I know I have done it a few times for my own stories, but it really depends on what kind of story I'm aiming for, and trying to then look for a way to make that version of the story better.

[Kou]

I'm writing a little novel of my own on the side, as well as a few RP scenes I've had. And my six favourite characters? Are the ones that die. All for the sake of the story. Each death had the rest of the characters getting stronger and better, more mature.

 

And I absolutely hate looking at their death scenes. It hurts me in my heart zone.

 

One of the ones that died was this big bad bad-ass that one of my friends' characters had the "pleasure" of killing. He laughs and cheers, I sob and whine.

[Nebbs]

For me I try to do this all the time, starting by making characters that can help others and push their own stories forward. You really do get more out of RP this way.

 

That said I also am very strong on what my character will and won't do so most of the time I can help and stay true. Where I have to go against my character concept always leads to issues, and repeatedly doing this makes me feel I am just an NPC in someone's story.

 

So the other side to this is to also have your plots able to change and adapt.

[Enla]

It's why I have a fairly loose set of rules for what my characters will and won't engage in, within reasonable limits. As well as what other characters can do to them in turn. Players can maim them to the point of never being able to walk again or losing limbs, kidnap them, do very horrible things to them, and all I ask is that I'm consulted first. Even then, the consultation is more of a formality, to keep my character from becoming a notch in someone else's belt to make themselves feel superior. (Odd way of phrasing it, but I have met people like that in other games, so I keep these rules close to avoid letting them push my character around here like they might have done back where I came from.)

 

Only issue I take is with character death, and even then, if people can pitch the idea well enough to me and if it'll impact enough people in the right way I'm all for it. Sure, I could have months of fun left with that character but I'd rather sacrifice them for one glorious plotline than have them eek out the rest of their existence in safety. HOWEVER, just because I feel this way doesn't mean I expect the same from other people. If someone doesn't wish to put their character in the same amount of harm or they take the gloves off entirely - that's their choice and I do my best to try and respect that.

[Magellan]

The problem with MMOs is, I have trouble killing, maiming, or otherwise incapacitating a character I have spent literally hundreds of hours leveling, gearing, finding the right rp clothes for, and a lot of times spending real money on to deck out.

 

'For the sake of story' kinda loses out in the face of this. I'm a hobbyist writer, and I'm much rougher on my characters in my own stories, or even in forum rp, than in game. Because if I no longer like my character ICly (or if they are dead) I lose interest in playing them OOCly. A story is supposed to end, so you use at your disposal all the things that will add up to a satisfying conclusion, including killing off well-liked characters. 

 

RP doesn't really end, until you're ready for it to. If you kill a character off, you have to be willing to face the consequence of another huge timesink, possibly spending real money, and having to find new characters to rp with.

[LiveVoltage]

What I noticed is that most people will usually have a main character that they will never kill off, then as they grow out from that character, they will have several alt's that they will use for the purpose of being used and disposed of for RP.

 

A character's death obviously has a dramatic impact on the story in general. Its not generally an easy thing to do but dying or killing characters out of RP is probably one of the laziest things to do to enrich a story.

 

A good example of this is Game of Thrones. While there was killing and stuff, most of the big characters usually fought using their head's and their fights were in politics.

 

You dont need to kill characters to have a good story. Yes, its a convenient tool in any relevant event, but there are other alternatives.

 

It's still the RPers decision in the end to choose if they want their character to die or not. Both party's have to consent to the killing beforehand.

 

 

 

By the by though, I would never tell anybody to kill their main off. Just by a phantasia and name change. 20$ spent is better than spending a month or more trying to level and gear and stuff. Especially if youve leveled all the crafting and combat classes.

[Berrod Armstrong]

I usually have an overhead idea of how I want a story to go. If I find that a certain path will make things more interesting, I stop and assess for a bit. Character death is usually out of the question, unless the character was written to die (I...do that a lot. RIP Tom). I want my characters to be a part of the interesting story, and so I usually take careful steps to preserve their lives -- even if they get knocked around a little. Or a lot.

 

I've often made the mistake of having my character do something that goes very much against his character to make things more engaging, but recently I've decided to let my characters be who they are, and make only minor tweaks to keep the train on the tracks -- even if there's a switch-turn or two. It's quite as much, if not more rewarding than a knee-jerk against-character decision. Of course, I wouldn't rule one out if it's absolutely needed. 

 

All in all, the answer is yes! I've taken the wheel and turned it a little at times to keep a good story going, especially when it comes to being inclusive of more friends so that everyone can have a good time!

[Steel Wolf]

I've had an end result--or at least a goal--for Steel for a while now, and an ideal on how to reach that goal. However, recent RP within my FC has sort of shifted the way I envision Steel hitting that character goal, and I'm now rather a bit unsure of how it will play out or where it will lead.

 

It's kind of thrilling and worrying all at once. Thrilling because, of course, the fluid and adjusting nature of RP is a big part of the reason why I do this. Worrying because now the headcanon story I had is in the bin and now dependent upon others. Others who might not be around as frequently as one would like.

 

S'kinda coo'. :3

[Brynhilde]

I've had an end result--or at least a goal--for Steel for a while now, and an ideal on how to reach that goal. However, recent RP within my FC has sort of shifted the way I envision Steel hitting that character goal, and I'm now rather a bit unsure of how it will play out or where it will lead.

 

It's kind of thrilling and worrying all at once. Thrilling because, of course, the fluid and adjusting nature of RP is a big part of the reason why I do this. Worrying because now the headcanon story I had is in the bin and now dependent upon others. Others who might not be around as frequently as one would like.

 

S'kinda coo'. :3

 

Psh. We both know Steel's end goal has always been eloping with Bryn and finding a way for the two of them to have a small horde of adorable Hyur/Roe hybrid babies. Somehow.

[Kage]

I've had an end result--or at least a goal--for Steel for a while now, and an ideal on how to reach that goal.  However, recent RP within my FC has sort of shifted the way I envision Steel hitting that character goal, and I'm now rather a bit unsure of how it will play out or where it will lead.

 

It's kind of thrilling and worrying all at once.  Thrilling because, of course, the fluid and adjusting nature of RP is a big part of the reason why I do this.  Worrying because now the headcanon story I had is in the bin and now dependent upon others.  Others who might not be around as frequently as one would like.

 

S'kinda coo'.  :3

 

Psh. We both know Steel's end goal has always been eloping with Bryn and finding a way for the two of them to have a small horde of adorable Hyur/Roe hybrid babies. Somehow.

Aether.

 

Aether shenanigans.

 

That's how!

[Dogberry]

((You have no idea how much I was trying to imagine something like a Wire tap crew investigation working on a big drug trade organization like the Barksdale Organization or the Co-Op. @_@ Complete with Brass Blades of Ul'dah and some Maelstrom made high-potency drugs or something. And codes.))

 

The Wire is one of my favorite shows of all time. I've always wanted to take Dogberry into a kind of Frank Sobotka direction, particularly involved in labor, and having the lives and livelihoods of others to consider in every decision he makes. It sounds like you're on Season 1, so I won't go into any detail. Sobotka doesn't show up until Season 2.

[Kage]

((You have no idea how much I was trying to imagine something like a Wire tap crew investigation working on a big drug trade organization like the Barksdale Organization or the Co-Op. @_@ Complete with Brass Blades of Ul'dah and some Maelstrom made high-potency drugs or something. And codes.))

 

The Wire is one of my favorite shows of all time. I've always wanted to take Dogberry into a kind of Frank Sobotka direction, particularly involved in labor, and having the lives and livelihoods of others to consider in every decision he makes. It sounds like you're on Season 1, so I won't go into any detail. Sobotka doesn't show up until Season 2.

I'm not lying when I said I binge-watched.

 

I -might- have wanted to see the last episode but I'm nicely into Season 2 already. He's the guy at the shipping yards right?

[Gegenji]

I usually have an overhead idea of how I want a story to go. If I find that a certain path will make things more interesting, I stop and assess for a bit. Character death is usually out of the question, unless the character was written to die (I...do that a lot. RIP Tom). I want my characters to be a part of the interesting story, and so I usually take careful steps to preserve their lives -- even if they get knocked around a little. Or a lot.

 

I've often made the mistake of having my character do something that goes very much against his character to make things more engaging, but recently I've decided to let my characters be who they are, and make only minor tweaks to keep the train on the tracks -- even if there's a switch-turn or two. It's quite as much, if not more rewarding than a knee-jerk against-character decision. Of course, I wouldn't rule one out if it's absolutely needed. 

 

All in all, the answer is yes! I've taken the wheel and turned it a little at times to keep a good story going, especially when it comes to being inclusive of more friends so that everyone can have a good time!

 

This most closely matches kinda how I do things. I have a few overarching goals in place (become a Paladin, meet up with his brother again, etc.), but the specific path I leave mostly vague. As such, he's more or less free to engage in most of the events that happen around him, from going after cultists to making pies.

 

That said, I still have a pretty solid concept of "how he is" that I stick to. As much fun as it might be, there has been a couple occasions where I had to pass up on some things due to either Chachan not being the type for such things (barhopping, Grindstone for the longest time) or because there was no way I could feasibly have him stumble across it (impromptu beach party in Costa, a place he has never been IC).

 

Then again, there's been a couple times where he's been... smarter? wittier? than he actually should be. Mostly just so he can engage in some more interesting conversation. Word games are a good example of this, as is when he gets into some arguments, and I've let a few puns slip through as well. It all is pretty minor stuff, but there's definitely times where I've actively made him more mentally dextrous than he should be in order to help the conversation be more than "Let's explain things to Chachan."

[Dogberry]

((You have no idea how much I was trying to imagine something like a Wire tap crew investigation working on a big drug trade organization like the Barksdale Organization or the Co-Op. @_@ Complete with Brass Blades of Ul'dah and some Maelstrom made high-potency drugs or something. And codes.))

 

The Wire is one of my favorite shows of all time. I've always wanted to take Dogberry into a kind of Frank Sobotka direction, particularly involved in labor, and having the lives and livelihoods of others to consider in every decision he makes. It sounds like you're on Season 1, so I won't go into any detail. Sobotka doesn't show up until Season 2.

I'm not lying when I said I binge-watched.

 

I -might- have wanted to see the last episode but I'm nicely into Season 2 already. He's the guy at the shipping yards right?

 

Yeah, Frank Sobotka is the leader of the Baltimore chapter of the "International Brotherhood of Stevedores" (basically the fictionalized version of the International Longshoremen's Association) at the Port of Baltimore. I'd love to see RP dealing with corruption in Limsa Lominsa's ports.

[allgivenover]

Just make sure that if you approach RP with the overall narrative in mind like this that you are not the only one in your circle doing so or things will head in a not fun direction for you.

[Kage]

Are you saying that in an RP that the overall narrative takes a backseat to a character's narrative?

[allgivenover]

Isn't that the default state for RP?

[Gegenji]

Are you saying that in an RP that the overall narrative takes a backseat to a character's narrative?

Isn't that the default state for RP?

 

Do they have to be in conflict? Can't you have an overarching narrative going on and still allow for personal character development?

 

Like Jancis' pilgrimages! They have an overarching narrative going - extolling and celebrating the Twelve - and yet you can have all sorts of personal mini-plots going on between the participants.

[Kage]

Isn't that the default state for RP?

How would I know? I'm not the one answering a question with another question. If you want to be passive aggressive about a genuine question and a discussion, I'm not holding a gun to your head to have it.

 

Yeah, Frank Sobotka is the leader of the Baltimore chapter of the "International Brotherhood of Stevedores" (basically the fictionalized version of the International Longshoremen's Association) at the Port of Baltimore. I'd love to see RP dealing with corruption in Limsa Lominsa's ports.

I might be quite enjoying the fact that Amazon Prime allows for all 5 seasons to be in HD for prime accounts. :V

 

Would this allow for some.... human trafficking (and deaths), with political contributions to ship captains under the Admiral's command and some sort of heroin drug?

[allgivenover]

Of course they don't have to be in conflict. Every roleplayer has thier own mix of narrative vs character motivation, and I do believe that most lean toward the latter. My point is that if everyone else you associate with is 80/20 character/narrative and you are operating at 60/40 narrative/character then you are not likely going to have fun.

 

Numbers chosen are arbitrary and just for example.

[allgivenover]

Isn't that the default state for RP?

How would I know? I'm not the one answering a question with another question. If you want to be passive aggressive about a genuine question and a discussion, I'm not holding a gun to your head to have it.

 

Wow. I put a question mark there because I honestly don't know myself and just believe it to be so. If you got a passive agreesive tone there it was entirely injected by you.

 

I know I'm a bit of a pariah around here, but seriously not all my posts are snark. Hell most of them aren't.

[Berrod Armstrong]

I think it is up to the discretion and management of the roleplayer to balance both character and group narratives! It may be tricky at times, but all it takes is some thought, an open mind, and perhaps a personal guildline or two!

[Gegenji]

Of course they don't have to be in conflict. Every roleplayer has thier own mix of narrative vs character motivation, and I do believe that most lean toward the latter. My point is that if everyone else you associate with is 80/20 character/narrative and you are operating at 60/40 narrative/character then you are not likely going to have fun.

 

Numbers chosen are arbitrary and just for example.

 

I think the focus on character motivation comes from the fact that it's the one thing we can clearly affect in the game with minimal effort. Having a grander narrative requires a lot of work and cooperation with other people. So, for some the event isn't "Halone's Pilgrimage" as it is "Ensurt Naymhiir goes to the Halone Pilgrimage", if I may use my example again. So it's their own personal take on the overarching narrative, and you can still have fun with that.

 

It only becomes a problem when one side (either side) starts imposing overly much on the other. The character decides that - since they don't actually like Halone - they're going to cut the pilgrimage short by attacking one of the musicians. Or, conversely, if those present try to force the participants to become followers of Halone and Halone alone.

 

Again, though, such things could still work... but only if everyone is okay with it. If folks want to have a bit of conflict in an otherwise peaceful event, it can still be done... just as a character might like to deal with a pilgrimage-turned-cult. It comes down to the Big Word in RP - communication.

[Dravus]

The biggest obstacle is often finding like-minded role-players to indulge in grand tales of adventure involving meaningful consequences and genuine character depth. In my experience a significant chunk of role-players in MMO's are content to indulge in 'tavern' and 'romance' role-play whilst very rarely touching upon anything else.

 

Not that there's anything wrong with that sort of role-play, it's just a shame that it's so prominent and that the role-players who are up for grander plots are frigid to those outside their little groups or simply think far too highly of themselves to make interaction with them enjoyable.

 

Personally I've always made it a point to develop my characters in such a way as to leave them open to being injured or killed; especially if I feel as though their core tale has been told.