Decisions Made to Promote a "better" story

[Gegenji]

The biggest obstacle is often finding like-minded role-players to indulge in grand tales of adventure involving meaningful consequences and genuine character depth. In my experience a significant chunk of role-players in MMO's are content to indulge in 'tavern' and 'romance' role-play whilst very rarely touching upon anything else.

 

But could they not be "content" just because they are unwilling or afraid to put in the effort for a grander arc about their character? Such grand tales require not only a lot of work, but cooperation as well. It's all well and good to have a great plan ("I want my character to brave the depths of the Crystal Tower in search of their missing sister!") but setting it all into motion is another matter entirely.

 

Folks may not have the time or the willingness to coordinate such things. However, they may be willing to participate in those of others should they become aware of it and can find a way for their characters to jump in. However, those who can craft such adventures and adapt for all the different types participating are few and far between.

 

Alternatively, perhaps they see their progression in the dungeons and such AS their grand tales of adventure, and prefer to have the RP as their downtime. Their return from their hunts and their delves, to relax and unwind over a pint of ale and a story or two. I would figure such a person wouldn't want to leap headlong again into adventure after just coming down from one.

 

And what of folks who aren't adventurers? The merchants and barkeeps and commoners? While an adventure might be thrilling to them, it would also likely be well outside their depth. They're no fighters, so they may very well be content enough to hear tell of the adventures of others... or seek a simpler adventure in romantic conquest.

 

And would these things not have meaningful consequence and character depth as well? How a character treats a loved one can speak loads, and the interactions between them can leave to quite meaningful results... either in marriage or even a nasty break-up. Character progression doesn't have to come from the end of a sword.

[Dogberry]

Yeah, Frank Sobotka is the leader of the Baltimore chapter of the "International Brotherhood of Stevedores" (basically the fictionalized version of the International Longshoremen's Association) at the Port of Baltimore. I'd love to see RP dealing with corruption in Limsa Lominsa's ports.

I might be quite enjoying the fact that Amazon Prime allows for all 5 seasons to be in HD for prime accounts. :V

 

Would this allow for some.... human trafficking (and deaths), with political contributions to ship captains under the Admiral's command and some sort of heroin drug?

 

Human trafficking is covered pretty extensively in the Rogue quest line, and Somnus is basically opium. There's corruption in just about any government, and I imagine quite a few Maelstrom captains still have that old Pirate mentality. Though there's quite a bit of apathy in the Baltimore Police Department that I just don't see the Maelstrom having. The Maelstrom is a new concept to Limsa Lominsa, and Merlwyb seems to be a popular leader. A lot of people under her are going to be True Believers, as opposed to the jaded bureaucrats in The Wire.

[Gaspard]

You're making a logical mistake in your example, and your raised question in regards to roleplay;

 

The example of death you've quoted from the Wire was so that the story had something to feed on. a key moment to move the story forward. That was a decision a director made pertaining to a figure from literature. See the boy die (Even with his personal implication of liking the character), so that the story gets the necessary panache (Because the story goes first).

 

So far so good. So you have the director sacrifice a character for the progress of the story. 

 

ergo;

 

A singular Writer/Director kills of a Character in the singular narrative that he writes/oversees.

 

 

Now, In roleplay, you do not have a singular narrative. There's no singular story to follow. Infact, in Roleplay you're not the Director, you are more of an Actor. Every single player follows his own characters narrative UNTIL you decide to switch from organic/open RP (actions/consequences entirely free and unrestrained) and switch towards Story writing RP (Actions/consequences are shaped to adhere your character but also to enable the progress of the desired Narrative that includes others). 

 

Another big kicker is that Roleplayers often do not only seek to own their Character, but also their Characters Story. The distinction is important for the following reason;

 

If a person just focuses on maintaining character, you can literally throw his character at anything. Alien invasion, Zombie Moogles, A trip to hell, or grocery shopping with Ul'dahs prom Queen. Maintaining Character simply means that the character IN that scenario will undoubtly react how he should react to it, yet he sees no claim to where his character would end up in, or what he would face. If he'll be encountered with a lethal force he'll roleplay out dying, if he'll encounter poisonous gas he'll roleplay out dying form that slowly, if he'll encounter a rock-slide burrying him he'll get squished. The point is, to maintain character, you needn't control over narrative. 

 

But that's not how most people roleplay. We don't just remain in character, and react. We also own our characters story, and therein, the narrative and actions of our characters. 

 

 

 

So, to answer your initial question ; 

 

So I'm curious, have you made decisions to promote a better story? Did your characters ever go through something that, while it would not have been 100% in character at the time, would enrich the story? I'm not saying complete 180 but did you have to think of a way to steer your character a certain way to make it in character with the ultimate reason being a better story?

((You have no idea how much I was trying to imagine something like a Wire tap crew investigation working on a big drug trade organization like the Barksdale Organization or the Co-Op. @_@ Complete with Brass Blades of Ul'dah and some Maelstrom made high-potency drugs or something. And codes.))

 

 

I'll address this portion by portion;

 

First, and this should be almost biblical law to every roleplayer; NEVER break Character. While others can never tell you if you do or do not break Character, you yourself will know. There's alot of immersion for yourself that you will ruin if you have your character wash up / apart in order to satisfy someone else, and more importantly, this dis-satisfaction WILL wash over into your play, therein making your portrayal of your character the way you want to portray him skewed. Think like an Actor; You want to deliver the best performance you can.

 

However;

 

That doesn't translate into "Never cooperate". While you should never break character, you can, and should BEND and SHARE narrative. If you're imaginative enough, you can have your most vile enemies work together if both parties do the right things with the narrative. Take for example X-men Comics. They constantly toss their characters at almost ridiculous scenarios, but seldomnly is character broken in any of those. All it takes is a NPC here, a vile action there, a bit of drafting on both sides to make almost anything possible without anyone ever having to break character.

 

Which leads me to my last point ; Your initial post kind of tackled a massive amount of points, such as ; consequence, narrative, character integrity, story progress, IC/OOC seperation, and so on. I could keep writing on this for days on end, and still not give you a satisfying answer. I guess what it all boils down to is the following ; Make the quality of your Roleplay your personal responsibility. That is the only way you'll get the specific Quality of Roleplay out of it that you seek.

[Dravus]

The biggest obstacle is often finding like-minded role-players to indulge in grand tales of adventure involving meaningful consequences and genuine character depth. In my experience a significant chunk of role-players in MMO's are content to indulge in 'tavern' and 'romance' role-play whilst very rarely touching upon anything else.

 

But could they not be "content" just because they are unwilling or afraid to put in the effort for a grander arc about their character? Such grand tales require not only a lot of work, but cooperation as well. It's all well and good to have a great plan ("I want my character to brave the depths of the Crystal Tower in search of their missing sister!") but setting it all into motion is another matter entirely.

 

Folks may not have the time or the willingness to coordinate such things. However, they may be willing to participate in those of others should they become aware of it and can find a way for their characters to jump in. However, those who can craft such adventures and adapt for all the different types participating are few and far between.

 

Alternatively, perhaps they see their progression in the dungeons and such AS their grand tales of adventure, and prefer to have the RP as their downtime. Their return from their hunts and their delves, to relax and unwind over a pint of ale and a story or two. I would figure such a person wouldn't want to leap headlong again into adventure after just coming down from one.

 

And what of folks who aren't adventurers? The merchants and barkeeps and commoners? While an adventure might be thrilling to them, it would also likely be well outside their depth. They're no fighters, so they may very well be content enough to hear tell of the adventures of others... or seek a simpler adventure in romantic conquest.

 

And would these things not have meaningful consequence and character depth as well? How a character treats a loved one can speak loads, and the interactions between them can leave to quite meaningful results... either in marriage or even a nasty break-up. Character progression doesn't have to come from the end of a sword.

 

You don't need to be a hero to have a grand tale. You could spin a civilian's encounter with a regular bandit into a grand adventure if you wanted to and I've done just that in the past. I suspect it may simply be a culture thing - in other MMO's that I've played the atmosphere and attitude towards role-play has been completely different.

 

Like I said, it's not necessarily a bad thing - everyone is welcome to do what they want, after all! Though it's most definitely proving to be a culture shock as the sort of role-play I seek doesn't seem to be as common as it is elsewhere. Which makes me consider just using FFXIV for PvE related matters and 'light' role-play whilst indulging elsewhere for something a bit more meaty.

[Gegenji]

You don't need to be a hero to have a grand tale. You could spin a civilian's encounter with a regular bandit into a grand adventure if you wanted to and I've done just that in the past. I suspect it may simply be a culture thing - in other MMO's that I've played the atmosphere and attitude towards role-play has been completely different.

 

I'm just positing that it doesn't have to be a straight physical conflict like that. What about forgetting your anniversary with your girlfriend? A whirlwind of panic and running around town at the last minute to procure a gift for her and try to avoid being stuck sleeping on the couch or worse. Wouldn't that be an adventure of its own?

 

Or maybe your character doesn't care. Each day is special, so this is just one more in a long line of wonderful days. However, you still have to explain that to her, so she understands that you don't need special holidays to know how important she is. Or maybe she's just a fling and you deal with the fallout and start on a new hunt for a new conquest.

 

Each can be thrilling and engaging, each can be an "adventure", and each can show the depths of your character - in this case, their feelings on love and relationships.

 

Or, to get away from romance. What about a merchant? He finds out that one of the items he sold was flawed or a fraud! Are they being scammed, or is this truly an err on his part? He might have to track down where and how this happened so the integrity of his product remains strong! Perhaps it just turns out that, in the end, one of his artisans stayed up late the night before to celebrate their kid's birthday and was woozy at work, resulting in a slip-up. A few harsh words, a promise that wouldn't happen again, and everything is better.

 

An event, a conflict, and resolution all without having to actually draw steel or be forced to deal with bandits/monsters/big bads. That's all I'm getting it. It just seems a lot of the examples you're providing insist that violence and such is needed, as opposed to a more... I guess you could call it "mundane" sort of conflict or adventure, loathe as I am to use such a term. That might not be your intent at all, of course, I'm just saying for the sake of debate here.

[Caspar]

I think it's more like he wants to have a more involved plot that can't be done in one place in one sitting like tavern rp, but to do that I think you'd either have to take the initiative to start a story like that and find people interested about it, or hunt for a preexisting one to fit your character into. I joined an FC for that specific reason. I don't really believe in sitting around waiting for plot to happen so I tried to make one happen myself. I think people are interested in that kind of rp, but are too shy or lack the confidence to manage a story themselves and thus don't start anything more involved than the typical tavern dive.

[FreelanceWizard]

Alternatively, perhaps they see their progression in the dungeons and such AS their grand tales of adventure, and prefer to have the RP as their downtime. Their return from their hunts and their delves, to relax and unwind over a pint of ale and a story or two. I would figure such a person wouldn't want to leap headlong again into adventure after just coming down from one.

 

This is a particularly interesting point, IMO, that gets back to a fundamental difference in how RP is viewed in MMOs. There's one camp that sees the things that happen in game -- braving dangerous monsters and traps, griping over that idiot "conjurer" who kept forcing a retreat because he couldn't heal his way out of a paper bag, and so on -- as potentially IC and potentially part of a character's story. Usually, this is all "genericized" so it's not just running the same dungeon over and over or doing things only The Warrior of Light could do.

 

In the other camp, you have those who feel that the content of the game is a game and should be treated as fully OOC. They feel it shouldn't be included in a character's story for a variety of reasons (provides too much power to the character, doesn't fit with concept, too difficult to make generic, or simply don't like it), and they typically prefer creating their own stories that are completely separate from whatever happens in the game.

 

Unfortunately, the positions of these two camps are rather difficult to reconcile, and the clash between them is at the root of a lot of battles over what constitutes "correct" RP. The first camp gets chided for having characters that are too powerful and for doing too much hangout RP without any real tales of adventure, and the second camp gets chided for trying to make every character mundane and ignoring what's happening in the setting.

 

This is a conflict that is as old as RP in MMOs. The nice part about hangout RP (at a tavern, an FC house, or elsewhere) is that it's the one thing both camps can agree upon existing. It's the neutral ground of RP, where those with disparate views on RP and disparate character concepts can get together and interact. That's part of why it's so popular, IMO.

 

How a character treats a loved one can speak loads, and the interactions between them can leave to quite meaningful results... either in marriage or even a nasty break-up. Character progression doesn't have to come from the end of a sword.

 

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

EDIT: Oh. Right. Staying on topic... sometimes I've "pulled the punch" of what my character would do IC in order to keep a story from crashing to a halt. More than once I'd had the opportunity to kick a person out of a group ICly for something they've done, and I've had my character opt not to do so because of the OOC consideration of ruining someone's story. I've also had my character not know things that they should have known in order to keep a story moving or to give someone else the spotlight. I don't have any hard and fast rules for when or what I do in this regard; I just try to intuit when it might be beneficial to a story, then act accordingly.

[Dravus]

I think it's more like he wants to have a more involved plot that can't be done in one place in one sitting like tavern rp, but to do that I think you'd either have to take the initiative to start a story like that and find people interested about it, or hunt for a preexisting one to fit your character into. I joined an FC for that specific reason. I don't really believe in sitting around waiting for plot to happen so I tried to make one happen myself. I think people are interested in that kind of rp, but are too shy or lack the confidence to manage a story themselves and thus don't start anything more involved than the typical tavern dive.

 

That's pretty much what I was getting at, yeah!

[Gegenji]

I think it's more like he wants to have a more involved plot that can't be done in one place in one sitting like tavern rp, but to do that I think you'd either have to take the initiative to start a story like that and find people interested about it, or hunt for a preexisting one to fit your character into. I joined an FC for that specific reason. I don't really believe in sitting around waiting for plot to happen so I tried to make one happen myself. I think people are interested in that kind of rp, but are too shy or lack the confidence to manage a story themselves and thus don't start anything more involved than the typical tavern dive.

 

That's pretty much what I was getting at, yeah!

 

Ah, as mentioned. It just seemed like the examples you were giving were of the more... violent, "adventurey" adventure types, if that makes any sense.

 

Anyway, as mentioned, it might be something you might have to orchestrate yourself. Or find someone orchestrating something close to what you'd like and trying to fit your character into it. It's something that has to be worked for in either case, though. Especially if you take it into your own hands. I have a bit of a... story-driven event planned for the future, and I'm still fretting over the details.

[Kage]

EDIT: Oh. Right. Staying on topic... sometimes I've "pulled the punch" of what my character would do IC in order to keep a story from crashing to a halt. More than once I'd had the opportunity to kick a person out of a group ICly for something they've done, and I've had my character opt not to do so because of the OOC consideration of ruining someone's story. I've also had my character not know things that they should have known in order to keep a story moving or to give someone else the spotlight. I don't have any hard and fast rules for when or what I do in this regard; I just try to intuit when it might be beneficial to a story, then act accordingly.

Thank you for sharing your experience/action!

 

When I talked about death I didn't mean that it had to be that drastic a change or detour. It just happened to be the moment that stuck to me while I was watching the show :>

 

When I talk about things that may not be completely in character I'm talking about small things like setting up a character or two having a meetup in a place he ordinarily wouldn't be at. Maybe the character needed a change of pace? Maybe he got suspicious about who was following him and needed to step out of a routine? Maybe he was trying to start one?

 

I also don't mean to tell anyone what contributes to a better story which is why I put it in quotes. I think that's ultimately up to everyone. I'm just super curious as a person who came to Roleplay loving narratives and the large stories involved. The death and the accompanying quote seemed to strike me is all :V

 

Edit: Or it could be big things. Like why did a Sultansworn finally find himself stuck as a Brass Blade doing shitty stuff to one of his friends in an intimidation act? >.>'

[Caspar]

Generally when I have to go out of character to make something happen, I just try to think of an IC reason that it would happen. I don't like to do that too often, so I might want my character to be fuzzily defined enough in some personality elements that I can make it occur. Or I organize with other people a "plot contrivance" like an interruption or other distraction or something to prevent a scene from being ruined, then deal with the fallout later.

 

I tend to be pretty firmly in the 'play her as she is' crowd, where I try to just consider what the character would do, and not what I'd do, until after a scene is done. In the past, that's actually destroyed some pen and paper campaigns I was in when people blended and couldn't understand my character was being mean, and not me. If a group did something my character didn't approve of, I played it as it was and that would antagonize them. So I've tried to be more flexible about it in later rp, but overall, I think that instinct is very alive in me. :[

[allgivenover]

 

EDIT: Oh. Right. Staying on topic... sometimes I've "pulled the punch" of what my character would do IC in order to keep a story from crashing to a halt. More than once I'd had the opportunity to kick a person out of a group ICly for something they've done, and I've had my character opt not to do so because of the OOC consideration of ruining someone's story. I've also had my character not know things that they should have known in order to keep a story moving or to give someone else the spotlight. I don't have any hard and fast rules for when or what I do in this regard; I just try to intuit when it might be beneficial to a story, then act accordingly.

 

This is me exactly.

[Mae]

When I create a character, I give them an 'ultimate goal' and a really loose timeline of things I really want to happen to the character. Everything else that can and does happen between creation and the possible achievement of that ultimate goal, if it's for the good of the story (mine, someone else who I'm OOCly or ICly friendly with, or with a group I hold in high regard), I'll at least put a lot of consideration into doing something drastic for the good of a story. I had a character in another game that got stabbed, broken, burned, put in a coma, left for dead, branded, cut up, temporarily blinded, enthralled, kidnapped, tortured, mentally tortured, and cut open so things could be hidden in her (mule for illegal arcane goods), all for the sake of "making a better story". Sometimes these things would sideline me for a few weeks/couple months from major action, but only once -- and that would be the blinding incident -- was I OOCly unhappy with the whole thing.

 

 

Now... breaking character for the sake of story... I try to make characters that have enough flex in any direction that I don't have to break character. There is one exception to this, though:

 

I have another RP group I run with, in another game. I like the people in that group, save one person who... I think we all just feel so sorry for the guy, that we can't bring ourselves to kick him out. We suspect that he might have a bit of a handicap, but we can't confirm because it seems that not only does he hold a regular job without an advocate/assistant, he has a driver's license and is the caretaker for his elderly parents. Responses from him take a very long time (he will sometimes just go unresponsive for up to a few hours in the middle of a conversation), and he seems... unable to understand the consequences of his IC actions. My character, specifically, hates his character. Hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hates his. She also holds him in the highest suspicion, and thinks he's useless and a coward. Granted, my character's default setting when it comes to men is that she hates them, but they do have every opportunity to get in her better graces. This was explained to him OOCly when he first joined the group, and several times since then. He and I have had several conversations (at his request) on how to get his character into her better graces. I've even told him exactly what to do, but he constantly immediately backs up these actions with his character saying or doing something that puts him in an even worse place than where he was before -- it's always one step forward, two steps back with him. It's to the point where for the sake of the group's RP, I HAVE to ignore him ICly or it'd just be neverending IC bickering.

 

If my character ever gets turned into a monster, she's turning into a Tonberry... and "Everyone's Grudge" is going to one-hit KO him.

 

Similarly, he gets a lot of... well... what I'd call 'pity RP' from me. It's not stuff that is for the better of the story, it's just stuff so that he's not sitting in the corner doing nothing on slow days, and that I sort of retcon in my own mind to not really have happened because... it wouldn't have happened. Stuff that breaks the 'mechanics' of how my character works/interacts with the setting's environment. Or just how she interacts with other people. Someone is not going to sneak up absolutely silently on her while they're wearing plate armor and coming from the direction she's already looking and they're not using a sneak or invisible spell/ability. Or pick her up with one arm and run with her like she's a football when she weighs 100lbs more than what they say their max lift/carry ability is. Or for her to stay seated at a bar next to someone she hates and have a polite conversation with.

 

... I'm tired and rambling, going to shut up now and take a nap...

[Kuzhuk]

My approach takes RPing as a bit different than telling a story. A lot of times when I RP I just show up to things and see what happens. Storytelling requires a lot of control and thought in advance, this is a bit more like improv for me.

 

What that means is that when I want a story I have to plan aspects out in advance and treat it like a DnD session. I give enough free-form to it that what happens can have a wide-variety of outcomes. That's why I RP.

 

When I feel like writing a story that's more over-arching and better planned out... I do it. I write fiction and I RP, and to me they serve different needs.