On Age

[Kuzhuk]

Full disclosure: I'm 30 IRL, I RP a character who is 31.

 

Eorzea is not the real world. It's an important thing to keep in mind, but unfortunately our experiences in RP cannot always be completely separated from RL. Given my age, seeing characters under the age of 18 behaving salaciously, IC or not, makes me extremely uncomfortable.

 

I've involuntarily witnessed sixteen year olds RP in the midst of heavy flirting, getting wasted in public and talking about their proclivities, etc. etc. etc. In fact, once my character hit on a miqo'te in a bar only to find out she's supposed to be sixteen IC -- that was EXTREMELY awkward.

 

I really don't like it, but I'm not so sure that there's an actual solution to the problem aside from RPing in more exclusive venues. I tend to RP in public a lot, so I wish we had some kind of ingame character/player profile system to determine the age of people we're RPing with so I could avoid the young'ins.

 

Thoughts?

[Drifter]

While I agree that it may be uncomfortable or awkward for some people to see or hear that sort of RP, I personally don't see anything wrong with it in and of itself. It's like trying to deny the fact that RL sixteen year-olds are actually out having sex and getting drunk, etc etc... 

 

It's fine to be IC and OOCly against it, but we shouldn't have to limit certain people's RP because of it.

 

#My2Gil

[Enzo]

^

Yes to the above post. Limiting is bad.

PM them and ask. That is the only real solution I can think of. It is a perfectly possible mistake to make in real life as well. You could be flirting with someone to learn that they are younger/older than they are. But people are going to act how people act. People will flirt, get drunk, and talk about their proclivities no matter their age IC or OOC. Most role players are at an age where they have been exposed to this IC and OOC anyway. How your character reacts to it is completely up to you though.

[Warren Castille]

For people of a younger age category, I'm sure there's no issue with someone being 16 and engaging in sexual conduct. As someone who's near Presidio's age, though, I'd never be comfortable with it OOCly because as a grown-ass man, children being sexually active is a huge no-no.

[Kuzhuk]

What bothers me about it is you don't actually know that the people RPing as 16 year olds are 16... It's a huge grey area for explotation, and I'm not even sure if it's legal to be doing it, engaging in it, or even seeing it.

 

It might actually fall under child pornography depending on how far people take it.

[Dogberry]

I'm also 30. Dogberry is 34. There are a number of characters (Laufuli, Flickering Ember, Wiltfya to name a few) who I call "Dogberry's kids" because he is very concerned about their well being. Some of them are not, technically speaking, children, but he views them as such. Dogberry has a lot of misdirected paternal issues.

 

That said, when it comes to uh... getting physical, Dogberry has proven himself at times a scumbag. At his emotional low points, a sixteen year old obsessing over him would most definitely be the kind of emotional validation he'd crave until he was done with them. He has done stuff like this before, but not with a teenager.

 

But even with the right ratio of fatherhood/validation, it's unlikely a teenager could properly satisfy him. He's got tastes and needs you just aren't born with. Experience would most definitely win out over age.

 

Me as a person says oh god, no, sixteen year olds please go home and do teenager things. Me, as a role player, looks at it and says "this is a fantasy world, with a different set of cultural morals, and also my character is a bit of a shitbag sometimes."

 

I should also disclose that I don't ERP. I strictly fade to black, mostly because I find ERP about as sexy as visit to the dentist.

[Verad]

To what extent does this tie in with your concerns, stated in other threads, regarding players making characters solely for the purposes of fetishization?

[Kuzhuk]

I know where you're coming from Dog. My character sounds A LOT like yours, scarily so.

 

And of course, OOC -- no way in hell I'm going anywhere near that.

---

To what extent does this tie in with your concerns, stated in other threads, regarding players making characters solely for the purposes of fetishization?

Not at all. Minors being sexually active in a place where I can see it just makes me feel VERY uncomfortable.

[Verad]

Not at all. Minors being sexually active in a place where I can see it just makes me feel VERY uncomfortable.

 

Fair enough, but there seems to be a strong emphasis on playing an age range similar to ones' own - you open your post by showing how close your character's age is to your own.

 

Is it more or less uncomfortable if the OOC age of the player is significantly higher than the IC age of the character? 

 

And is the discomfort RP-specific? Or do any depictions of sexually active minors, regardless of medium, cause the same discomfort?

[Kuzhuk]

Any depiction of sexually active minors makes me uncomfortable, yeah.

 

And it makes me far more uncomfortable if the person isn't a minor, because it fringes on pedophilia.

[allgivenover]

Me as a person says oh god, no, sixteen year olds please go home and do teenager things. Me, as a role player, looks at it and says "this is a fantasy world, with a different set of cultural morals, and also my character is a bit of a shitbag sometimes."

 

I should also disclose that I don't ERP. I strictly fade to black, mostly because I find ERP about as sexy as visit to the dentist.

 

This.

[Verad]

If it's any depiction, that sounds very much like a you-specific problem. The depiction thereof can have some useful aesthetic purposes, and setting aside that it's a depiction of what minors tend to actually do, I'd hate to lose works like Lolita.

 

I could see it being more troubling in RP than in other media because of the semi-private nature of the depictions and, as you've pointed out, it can have some questionable implications, though I'm much more ambivalent about making pedophilia claims.

 

You may have to transfer to more exclusive RP and set limits on what you consider acceptable play in order to really avoid the problem.

[Coatleque]

Any depiction of sexually active minors makes me uncomfortable, yeah.

 

And it makes me far more uncomfortable if the person isn't a minor, because it fringes on pedophilia.

 

Such uncomfortableness is merely a product of the society you were raised in. You must separate the accepted 'norm' from actual biology and learn some history. It wasn't until the mid 1800's in real life that people were suddenly considered "minors" under a specific age. That was when the conservative right lobbied for age of consent laws to try and cut down on human sex trafficking and forced marriages.

 

Before then, you were almost a full adult by 14. That is when biology naturally takes over. That is when nature intended the human species to be mature. If a child is not emotionally developed enough to handle life by then, it is society's/the parent's fault, not nature. Not the Government.

 

That being said, the government is still in charge here, sadly. And if they say such things are illegal, then you must contend with their backing of force. All I'm saying is that before you say "That makes me uncomfortable", take a look at WHY you feel that way and put it in perspective over the course of all of human history. If your view makes absolutely no biological sense, perhaps you should reconsider it.

[Uninstalldotexe]

Any depiction of sexually active minors makes me uncomfortable, yeah.

 

And it makes me far more uncomfortable if the person isn't a minor, because it fringes on pedophilia.

 

Such uncomfortableness is merely a product of the society you were raised in.  You must separate the accepted 'norm' from actual biology and learn some history.  It wasn't until the mid 1800's in real life that people were suddenly considered "minors" under a specific age.  That was when the conservative right lobbied for age of consent laws to try and cut down on human sex trafficking and forced marriages.

 

Before then, you were almost a full adult by 14.  That is when biology naturally takes over.  That is when nature intended the human species to be mature.  If a child is not emotionally developed enough to handle life by then, it is society's/the parent's fault, not nature.  Not the Government.

 

That being said, the government is still in charge here, sadly.  And if they say such things are illegal, then you must contend with their backing of force.  All I'm saying is that before you say "That makes me uncomfortable", take a look at WHY you feel that way and put it in perspective over the course of all of human history.  If your view makes absolutely no biological sense, perhaps you should reconsider it.

 

You would be correct.  I would just add that in the times you mentioned, your average life expectancy was much lower than it is today due to lack of innovations in the medical field.  I want to say you were considered "old" around your 40s to 50s if you managed to live to that ripe age.

[Coatleque]

You would be correct.  I would just add that in the times you mentioned, your average life expectancy was much lower than it is today due to lack of innovations in the medical field.  I want to say you were considered "old" around your 40s to 50s if you managed to live to that ripe age.

 

True, but irrelevant.

What does living longer have to do with the age of maturity? Nothing. Else biology would have naturally moved along with it. Unless you are just seeking a pass for lazy parenting. Being old at 65 rather than 50 has no bearing on being mature at 14.

[Caspar]

Full disclosure: I'm 30 IRL, I RP a character who is 31.

 

Eorzea is not the real world. It's an important thing to keep in mind, but unfortunately our experiences in RP cannot always be completely separated from RL. Given my age, seeing characters under the age of 18 behaving salaciously, IC or not, makes me extremely uncomfortable.

 

I've involuntarily witnessed sixteen year olds RP in the midst of heavy flirting, getting wasted in public and talking about their proclivities, etc. etc. etc. In fact, once my character hit on a miqo'te in a bar only to find out she's supposed to be sixteen IC -- that was EXTREMELY awkward.

 

I really don't like it, but I'm not so sure that there's an actual solution to the problem aside from RPing in more exclusive venues. I tend to RP in public a lot, so I wish we had some kind of ingame character/player profile system to determine the age of people we're RPing with so I could avoid the young'ins.

 

Thoughts?

Look up their wiki?

[Enzo]

Any depiction of sexually active minors makes me uncomfortable, yeah.

 

And it makes me far more uncomfortable if the person isn't a minor, because it fringes on pedophilia.

 

Such uncomfortableness is merely a product of the society you were raised in.  You must separate the accepted 'norm' from actual biology and learn some history.  It wasn't until the mid 1800's in real life that people were suddenly considered "minors" under a specific age.  That was when the conservative right lobbied for age of consent laws to try and cut down on human sex trafficking and forced marriages.

 

Before then, you were almost a full adult by 14.  That is when biology naturally takes over.  That is when nature intended the human species to be mature.  If a child is not emotionally developed enough to handle life by then, it is society's/the parent's fault, not nature.  Not the Government.

 

That being said, the government is still in charge here, sadly.  And if they say such things are illegal, then you must contend with their backing of force.  All I'm saying is that before you say "That makes me uncomfortable", take a look at WHY you feel that way and put it in perspective over the course of all of human history.  If your view makes absolutely no biological sense, perhaps you should reconsider it.

 

You would be correct.  I would just add that in the times you mentioned, your average life expectancy was much lower than it is today due to lack of innovations in the medical field.  I want to say you were considered "old" around your 40s to 50s if you managed to live to that ripe age.

 

Some people would still consider that old. And There were still plenty of people who reached above that age as well. That was just average. I do agree with Coatleque doe

[Kage]

You would be correct.  I would just add that in the times you mentioned, your average life expectancy was much lower than it is today due to lack of innovations in the medical field.  I want to say you were considered "old" around your 40s to 50s if you managed to live to that ripe age.

Not to mention that your life expectancy in Eorzea is sorta the same as mentioned by Fern. Just, the world outside of them city-states are much more dangerous right now and the average persons don't have the means to deal with it.

 

iirc the Sultana was the Sultana when she turned 16. She's 21 now? I forgot what I posted from the anniversary shares.

 

At this point, I just take their RP at face value. If they are RPing a young character then either my character has an aversion to it or I do. Will I let my OOC opinions interfere with that is what I choose to let direct my RP. Simply put, you could always just make your character find it extremely abhorrent and react that way in RP. Otherwise, you will simply have to be more exclusive about how you RP. Check if they have a wiki and work from there. Or OOCly PM all of them before engaging in such behavior.

[Uninstalldotexe]

You would be correct.  I would just add that in the times you mentioned, your average life expectancy was much lower than it is today due to lack of innovations in the medical field.  I want to say you were considered "old" around your 40s to 50s if you managed to live to that ripe age.

 

True, but irrelevant.

What does living longer have to do with the age of maturity?  Nothing.  Else biology would have naturally moved along with it.  Unless you are just seeking a pass for lazy parenting.  Being old at 65 rather than 50 has no bearing on being mature at 14.

 

Eeesh. Ok.

 

Well, maturity goes along with the society as a whole and because of the laws you mentioned, our generation of 14 year olds would by no means be ready to tackle on the world on their own.  I suppose if you had a super strick upbringing and your parents raised you with no intention of experiencing a childhood or you had absolutely no choice due to circumstances. I guess.

 

In terms of the body, sure, the female biology is usually mature at that age but it does not mean mentally shes ready for such challenges.  I would concede that a woman in the 1800s might out of necessity. Also, I would contend that maturity is more relative to understanding the world around you and being able to fully accept the responsibility for your actions in whatever capacity rather than the body being ready to bear a child. Considering the circumstances of the citizens of Eorzea, I would say they are "mature" enough.

[Maril]

 

 

You would be correct.  I would just add that in the times you mentioned, your average life expectancy was much lower than it is today due to lack of innovations in the medical field.  I want to say you were considered "old" around your 40s to 50s if you managed to live to that ripe age.

 

I will just note that during the Lore Q/A panel during the fan fests the lore developer team did touch on eorzean lifespans. They noted that whilst most races could possibly become 100 years old, it was very unlikely that they would because Eorzea is a very dangerous place to live, where people, the environment & exploding moons are out to get you. So with that in mind, it is very likely that being 40-50 years old as a hyur in Eorzea is considered old, perhaps even impressive and something to revere. Which then could mess with when society regards someone as being adult, I wouldn't be surprised if 18 wasn't exactly the legal age in Eorzea. 

 

Otherwise on the topic, if you find out that a character is a minor and you are not comfortable with it, you always have the option to politely excuse yourself icly - Presuming that the age question is popped early in the RP, you might not even need to make an OOC mention about it. If people ask, then just state things as they are - people should respect your personal boundaries at the end of the day. You might benefit from implementing something in your characters personality or background that makes them react this way. When you make it a quirk it gets easier to go with - I have some traits in Nailah that are there because of certain OOC elements which can not be negotiated, which now are a fully integrated undeniable part of who she is as a character.

 

You can't ever tell people what they can and can't do, you can just choose not to hang around a person if you find out they're doing something you as a player, for one reason or the other, can't stomach. Be it age, a lore violation like say, people suddenly transforming into a werewolf-vampire hybrid which remains friendly, you name it. Yes, it will limit your rp-circle if you would but.. It's not like there's a shortage of roleplayers ^^

[Uninstalldotexe]

Any depiction of sexually active minors makes me uncomfortable, yeah.

 

And it makes me far more uncomfortable if the person isn't a minor, because it fringes on pedophilia.

 

Such uncomfortableness is merely a product of the society you were raised in.  You must separate the accepted 'norm' from actual biology and learn some history.  It wasn't until the mid 1800's in real life that people were suddenly considered "minors" under a specific age.  That was when the conservative right lobbied for age of consent laws to try and cut down on human sex trafficking and forced marriages.

 

Before then, you were almost a full adult by 14.  That is when biology naturally takes over.  That is when nature intended the human species to be mature.  If a child is not emotionally developed enough to handle life by then, it is society's/the parent's fault, not nature.  Not the Government.

 

That being said, the government is still in charge here, sadly.  And if they say such things are illegal, then you must contend with their backing of force.  All I'm saying is that before you say "That makes me uncomfortable", take a look at WHY you feel that way and put it in perspective over the course of all of human history.  If your view makes absolutely no biological sense, perhaps you should reconsider it.

 

You would be correct.  I would just add that in the times you mentioned, your average life expectancy was much lower than it is today due to lack of innovations in the medical field.  I want to say you were considered "old" around your 40s to 50s if you managed to live to that ripe age.

 

Some people would still consider that old. And There were still plenty of people who reached above that age as well. That was just average. I do agree with Coatleque doe

 

I think I failed in making mention that I was speaking about real life rather than FF.

[Coatleque]

I would concede that a woman in the 1800s might out of necessity. Also, I would contend that maturity is more relative to understanding the world around you and being able to fully accept the responsibility for your actions in whatever capacity rather than the body being ready to bear a child.

 

And I would agree with you on this up to a certain point. But that whole argument is beyond the scope of this thread. What we do seem to agree with is that society has unnaturally pushed the age of adolescence much further than biology intended.

[Faye]

I can understand how it makes you uncomfortable, but limiting people is a huge no-no, especially considering there are those who role-play minors in completely innocent, non-sexual, age-appropriate ways. However, I'm not meaning to play the devil's advocate here, but let's keep in mind FFXIV isn't exactly a modern/real life setting. It's a somewhat medieval setting, and in such times, at age 16, having sex, marriage, even having kids was totally appropriate, if not expected. Even in real life, it's still somewhat accurate. In some states in the US (such as my own), 16 is the legal age of consent. There's also no rule that taboos can't/shouldn't be role-played. If something in an RP is a trigger for you IRL, respectfully bow out of the RP rather than try to censor others, or have a polite and open OOC conversation with the other RPer about it and try to reach some compromise where you're no longer uncomfortable with their RP.

[sforze]

If sex is something that's purely physical with no mental, emotional, or societal contexts or consequences, sure, we can go with "nature" (though this also has some really distasteful implications, if you really dig into it). But in a world where sex doesn't exist in a vacuum and there are things like power imbalances due to age, social status, wealth, etc., and different levels of emotional/mental maturity besides, relying purely on whether or not someone's hit puberty just doesn't cut it. There were imbalances in the pre-1800s and there are imbalances today. In that way, I think the "what nature wants" argument is just a little bit beside the point.

[Coatleque]

There were imbalances in the pre-1800s and there are imbalances today. In that way, I think the "what nature wants" argument is just a little bit beside the point.

 

The world is full of imbalances. Every species vies for dominance during mating. Why would humans be any different? Unless what you are trying to say is that this is a moral issue.