No Longer Exists

Good advice, thank you (and sorry for lateness, I missed your reply)! I'm not averse to going against the grain but it helps to know what the grain actually is, haha. I've been RPing her a bit and she's starting to come together now and all these little tidbits help me flesh her out. I'm thinking she would be one of the more closed minded types so would be interesting to see how Oak and her get on! No problem! Research is always a good start. Meeting another Roe would be most welcome and I look forward to seeing how she reacts to him and vice versa!

*Sniffles and sobs can be heard under the hat* Oh, my City of Heroes. Why did you leave me? I will never forget you, my love. *Throat clears, bit of shuffling, peeks out* Hullo! Welcome to Balmung and the RPC, fellow player of most excellent games. Pardon me, I was....er dusting and it got in my eye....yes, that. Absolutely. Hope we run into each other in game! Cheers! -Black Hat

Welcome! I have an RP character on Jenova too, but Balmung is far more busy for us RPer types. Have a look around and get to know things. I play Zealous Oak mostly, so you can find me on him a lot. Cheers! -Black Hat

*Pushes open the TARDIS door* Siren, you say? This is news to me, but I've heard many a movement in small ways attempting to promote RP across various worlds and I try to pop in to each of them. Last I heard, in the summer of last year, Odin was where some attempted to set their flag for a less congested, unofficial RP server. There are small RP FCs on Sarganatas, Jenova, and many others, but this is a first I'd heard of Siren hosting RPers. I may have to check that out. However, as has been pointed out, Balmung is where it's at. Tis the bee's knees, if you will. Gilgamesh (affectionately known as Uncle Greg) is the other RP world most notable at this time. Both host EU RPers. As for the lockout, it's a sad state of affairs and the others have given the most sound advice that can be given. Your safest bet is to pre-design your character, save it, and wait for after-patch then go, go, go. It can be daunting, but do not give up hope. See you in game soon. *Closes the door*

Sounsyy has the lore and it is indeed very useful. *Peeks out from under his hat* I would like to mention that you should and can play it your way though. Case in point, if you click on Zealous Oak in my signature, you'll see my Hellsguard's wiki and there are a few points in it that lean away from the lore in plausible fashion. Such as: Oak was born on an island. I did this because volcanoes form many an island and it allowed him to have a more sheltered childhood, lending to his love of nature and his quiet temperament. I also made mention of a nameday, because I draw parallels between Hellsguardian naming and native american naming so it seemed to my mind that Hellsguard would have a rite of passage at maturity. Oak also practices alchemy, which a more traditional Roe might sneer at. He does this because of his profession, it is an extension of his healing practices and even though his traditionalist sensibilities dictate it is apocryphal (big word, I know), its practical applications serve him well in his service to the twelve. Think of it as turning evil to a good use. So please, feel free to play with concepts in regards to Lore and enjoy yourself. Interpretation is key and can make for some fun RP as well. I'd be happy to debate Alchemy with a more closed-minded Roe some day and have Oak deal with a social stigma because of his beliefs.

Hello! Clive Gardner *points down at his signature* is my RP character on Jenova and I would be more than happy to RP with you. Just let me know when you'll be on.

Well it's not so much a crisis situation as it is an arrogant project. I should maybe explain further. >< The surgery is essentially installing a 'cradle' inside his missing eye hole. The purpose being a machinist to craft a artificial eye that works similar to Papalymo and Yda's goggles in the main story. The purpose of the 'cradle' is to make maintenance, upgrades, etc to the prosthetic without requiring near brain surgery every time. Where as the 'eye' would be more or less temp as RP research into magitek deepens and upgrades made, the cradle on the other hand is more or less permanent. Of course whether or not it's even successful is still a dice roll so to speak, I'm trying to keep it as lore-friendly as possible, considering the somewhat lack of actual official FFXIV lore. But yeah, unfortunately it's not really a crisis situation. I understand completely. What I was getting at is that if need be, presenting it to Oak as a crisis situation would get him to do the surgery. In essence, I'm giving you permission to completely hornswaggle my healer into it for fun and for development of your character. Convince him that it's a crisis, even if it isn't. lol

*Peeks out from under his hat* Many moons ago.... *Drumbeats, low chanting in the background* The tribes of Gilgamesh came together, a summit of companies. There were three events, each held on its own in a single city-state. For hours before hand, I and others interested in helping out, raised our voices to announce these events to the public at large in all the city states. Each company or tribe announced itself, if it wished to attend, with no more than 5 members as representatives (though we lifted the number restriction later at the community's request). New players came and listened, their characters RPed with those they agreed most with or found most interesting. FCs mingled, made connections, offered services, settled grievances, and no one spoke of writing laws. There were many trolls, but we had a good time anyways. This is what I feel the OP was trying to get at. I could be wrong though. I refuse to read the stuff about details, nuances, and how it should or shouldn't have been worded. Tl;dr I'm in and will do anything to help.

If that fails, Doc Oak might be an opportunity for the surgeon role. While he works for the Flames as well, his personal outlook and beneficent attitude toward health and wellness could inspire him to do it IF it's presented as a crisis situation. He won't be happy about it after the fact, but he'll do everything in his power to save a life.

Exactly, Kage.

I missed your post there for awhile, but I'm gonna give that link some attention. Thanks!

That is an excellent point, thank you! I counter with this. If there is no obligation, does one have a right to play as one wishes if they are expected not to judge. I know it sounds cyclical and it will be cyclical, just bear with me. Remember: rights are the fundamental normative rules about what is allowed of people or owed to people, according to some legal system, social convention, or ethical theory. It's not a cyclical argument if you don't insist on begging the question. 1. We have a right to play as we wish. 2. We have the right to judge others for how they play. 3. It is not incumbent upon those who are judged to give a shit about the judgement. 4. That's it. Given that RP is a creative pastime with no governing body, If anyone says, "You have no right to judge my RP!", don't panic; they are not literally seeking your censorship. What they are essentially saying is, "Your take on the entirely subjective matter of what is appropriate in the role-play of this setting does not trump my own." And they're right. I know it can be frustrating when people muddy semantics. But as a philosophy major, take it from me; if you go through life insisting that regular people converse only in terms of crisp, concise philosophical method, you're gonna have a bad time. Tis the murkiest of subjects and I thought an engaging row in crisp, concise method might be interesting, something different from the general opinions. Nudge the mind to think in different terms and maybe something new would spring up.

THANK YOU!

For clarity (and brevity), let's remove the term "roleplay" because I wrote "play" which is an open term. I am speaking SOLELY about the RIGHT to do a thing (example: play) and the statement in response being "Yes, you can (play) but do not judge." I'll make it a tad more narrow. I have the right to play dodgeball. I am assured that I have the right to play dodgeball the way I want to. I am then told not to judge the game or my fellow players or anyone in the field at the time. If judgement is the way one makes decisions and their decisions are their right, then how can one be expected not to make judgements? Judgements are neither positive nor negative, but can be both. It's illogical, maybe even crazy. I cannot wrap my head around it. So I turned to an off topic discussion for insight and am rewarded with the responses we've seen. It's fascinating.

An attempt to use strictly formal logic with a set of presupposed axioms to resolve an apparent contradiction between two halves of a commonly-stated piece of roleplaying advice. Correct. And it is overly complex, that is also correct.

I gladly accept that it appears to be a bait thread, difficult topics tend to be perceived as such. I can assure you that it is not, which is why I asked for rationale instead of emotional responses. It is quickly becoming an illustration of perceived intent though, which I find fascinating as the post itself was written as literally and directly as possible; but is being received as if it is intentionally incendiary. I had the same feeling about your popularity post, but felt no need to pass judgement (see what I did there) on it openly. I will reiterate the purpose though, to attempt to find a rational, empirical conclusion for a looping statement. That is all it is for.

This. There is not a single human being on this earth that does not make judgements. Condemnation is an entirely different ballpark. As it was written in the definition options that I provided, there is nothing obtuse about it. 9. to decide or settle authoritatively; adjudge: The censor judged the book obscene and forbade its sale. You will note in the definition, and not in the example chosen, that "To decide or settle authoritatively" does not indicate the quality of the decision beyond its authoritativeness. It does not include positive or negative categories. You will also note the absurdity of presuming that when people say "You are free to roleplay what you want, but do not judge," that they are implying, "Do not positively judge the roleplay of others" or "Do not judge the roleplay of others regardless of whether the judgment is positive or negative." The statement is used to advocate avoiding condemnation in general practice. The notion that people would use it to advocate avoiding the condoning of roleplay concepts, or the avoidance of condemnation or condoning roleplay concepts, is so bizarre that you are clearly arguing in bad faith. If you wish to point out the linguistic contradiction between the two statements as written, congratulations. Give it 5-6 pages and some cites and your PHIL101 professor will give you a B. It is not meant to qualify, it is a literal interpretation of text. Essentially, as stated above, a math problem using words. You are bringing conjecture into the discussion. Also, your statement of presumption appears to be a restatement of your first paragraph. Would you expand on that?

That is an excellent point, thank you! I counter with this. If there is no obligation, does one have a right to play as one wishes if they are expected not to judge. I know it sounds cyclical and it will be cyclical, just bear with me. Remember: rights are the fundamental normative rules about what is allowed of people or owed to people, according to some legal system, social convention, or ethical theory.

This. There is not a single human being on this earth that does not make judgements. Condemnation is an entirely different ballpark. As it was written in the definition options that I provided, there is nothing obtuse about it. 9. to decide or settle authoritatively; adjudge: The censor judged the book obscene and forbade its sale.

I'm intrigued by the social contract and interpretations, that might be a good place to start. I walked into this with the understanding that it's a Gordian Knot.

Ladies and gentlespoons, I am specifically looking for factual input leading to a resolution in this thread. I do not want nor will accept conjecture such as opinion on the matter. If all you have to bring to the table begins with these words, please do not post. These words are as follows: I feel.... It was my assumption.... I assume/d.... I am of the opinion that.... I look at it this way.... The goal of this is to use science and rationale, not emotion and opinion, to find a conclusion to the following quandary. Think of it like a math problem, with words. "I have the right to play how I want to." "Yes, you do, but don't judge." "But I have the right to play how I want to." "Yes, you do, but don't judge." "But I have the right to play how I want to." "Yes, you do, but don't judge." Consider the following: Rights are legal, social, or ethical principles of freedom or entitlement; that is, rights are the fundamental normative rules about what is allowed of people or owed to people, according to some legal system, social convention, or ethical theory. Judge verb (used with object), judged, judging. to form a judgment or opinion of; decide upon critically: You can't judge a book by its cover. 9. to decide or settle authoritatively; adjudge: The censor judged the book obscene and forbade its sale. 10. to infer, think, or hold as an opinion; conclude about or assess: He judged her to be correct. 11. to make a careful guess about; estimate: We judged the distance to be about four miles. Using these definitions. How does one have the right to play how they want to IF they cannot judge?

That is because there is a perception, not a reality, of elitism and cliques forming from it. Certain individuals feel that there are, which has nothing to do with anyone but those particular individuals who should (in my opinion) enjoy themselves without accusing others who are enjoying themselves. As evidenced from these last two days of posts, we are by and large a happy community. Also, you mentioned posting a lot, not post count specifically. Which is why I stated that Casden brought post count into the equation with his chosen form of parroted answer to your question. It's all good, Kage.

This this this this a thousand times THIS. This is a wonderful way to make new RP friends, to expand your RP networks, and find yourself swimming in hooks and plots and the rest of that. Popularity, if we want to call it that, takes effort - can't be popular if you can't engage and interact with people. Bad interactions will come along with the good of course, but being open to the possibility of interaction is hella important. I feel that these two statements actually embody the majority of RPers in this community and a great many in game as well. That is why I'm so shocked that we need things like the OP created, as amusing as it is. Well said, both of you.

I wouldn't, and have such stated before, that I do not think I'm popular at all, (though I may be recognized in game) So I wouldn't think I'm more popular than anyone. But I will say this, it would stand to reason that the one with the higher post count in the shorter amount of time would be a bit more recognizable than someone with less post in a longer time, but that'd dimply due to maintaining a heavier presence. But I digress, I was simply echoing what the general rule of thumb of new forums goers seem to be implying. I did not know I was invoking a popularity contest:P Perhaps it would be better if one did not echo the sentiments of others, but let them speak for themselves. After all, the point is that they wish to be heard and recognized. Sorry, maybe you missed the whole topic about everyone crying about not being popular, it was brought up that post count should be hidden to make everyone feel equal. So my response, was actually stating what they themselves was discussing8-) Twas not missed. Unfortunately, you've begun to contradict yourself and it might be time to step away from these topics awhile. As plainly written in black and white above, you first are echoing what new forum goers seem to be implying and now are "actually stating what they themselves was discussing." which is it? In this specific thread, YOU brought up post count. Presumably echoing for a nebulous unheard mass that you may or may not be championing because WE were discussing popularity, cliques, and positivity not post counts and reputations until you and I began this sequence of posts. If you would like to discuss this further away from a thread that isn't about you and your post count theory, I will gladly do so. I am still requesting that you stop being someone else's loudspeaker though. At this point, it is becoming inappropriate and detrimental to multiple threads now. I am not a mod, nor do I have any sort of power to stop you but as a concerned citizen. Kindly shut up and let these newcomers speak for themselves for awhile. I don't even know who has a problem at this point, because all I see is you, Casden, typing "PEOPLE SAY THIS IS THE PROBLEM." over and over again.

*looks at your post count* Yes, yes it was:thumbsup: I actually do believe popularity is being based on post count, and who many people reply to your posts/topics. I have 205, been a member since.....good god. Is that accurate?? And my rep is right around Casden's.....I feel like that argument is invalid. If you break it down mathematically, 205 divided by 18 months is roughly 11 1/2 posts per month. Roughly 3 posts per week as an average. You have 420 since February. That's 140 a month at an average rate of 35 posts per week or 5 posts a day ( DID MATH WRONG ). So you must be more popular than me, even though I've been a member longer? I wouldn't, and have such stated before, that I do not think I'm popular at all, (though I may be recognized in game) So I wouldn't think I'm more popular than anyone. But I will say this, it would stand to reason that the one with the higher post count in the shorter amount of time would be a bit more recognizable than someone with less post in a longer time, but that'd dimply due to maintaining a heavier presence. But I digress, I was simply echoing what the general rule of thumb of new forums goers seem to be implying. I did not know I was invoking a popularity contest:P Perhaps it would be better if one did not echo the sentiments of others, but let them speak for themselves. After all, the point is that they wish to be heard and recognized.