Melkire

From "Coming to Terms," 2.4 content: From the resulting cutscene, again, 2.4 content: I could go on, dig through older 2.x content for more, and certainly find quotes from newer content, but this is a good starting point. It is very fair, well, and good to say that Ishgard's conflict with the Dravanians has them stretched too thin. Aymeric even notes to Alphinaud that they have no knights to spare (I'm assuming this means all the lancers, dragoons, and such posted to Coerthas are not up to snuff to qualify) since said knights are all occupied. This can certainly be extended to their not wanting to provide aid in the way of supplies and provisions. ...but still, this all paints a very xenophobic picture. For DECADES, Ishgard has been closed off, playing a very isolationist policy. They haven't let anyone new in. They haven't accepted aid. They haven't lent aid. Not until Aymeric, having worked his way up to his influential position from lowborn status, decides to do his best to change all that... and even then, he is acting against formal policy. They have justification for acting this way, we just don't know what it is yet (my bets are on the long-game that the Ascians are playing by influencing the Holy See). That, however, does not excuse the behavior for what it is, which, again: isolationist with xenophobic undertones. I'll take a moment for a very minor point of speculation and conjecture: where are the Ishgardian Roegadyns and Lalafells in addition to the Ishgardian Miqo'te? We'll have to wait until 3.0 hits and Foundation opens to us to find out, but I'm going to hazard a guess and say that you won't find many, if any, of those three races in the upper echelons of Ishgardian society. I'd go digging for the undertones of racism, but I don't recall exactly which quests they were in and there's a ton to go through, MSQ and otherwise. I'm at work. I might dig for it tonight or this weekend. EDIT: Sounsyy mentioned above, and it's from 1.0 lore I believe, that the four main Houses are all Elezen in origin. EDIT 2: Huh. Garlean model with eye for Lucia. That confirms the circlet speculation. EDIT 3: "Xenophobia" here is merely "fear of outsiders," not "fear of aliens" in the racist sense.

As far as I can tell on the little lore we have at the moment, Dark Knights are basically the Ishgardian answer to "who watches the watchmen?"

To my knowledge and recollection, this was not implied or confirmed anywhere, merely speculated due to appearance. Did I miss a lore drop somewhere? I probably did. :<

What Gengenji said. How does Gridania being known for racism somehow preclude Ishgard from being likewise?

It's nice to have confirmation that Au Ra are Othardian, though, with the Xaela from the western portion of the continent and the Raen the eastern (Doma confirmed on the eastern half of Othard?).

The side of the wooden handle.

There are so many ways to spin that though. Look at ROG and NIN. Is every knife-fighter in Eorzea trained by Jacke and co.? Has every ninja taken lessons from Oboro or whatever his name was? When the hang-up is "universal origin is bland," that's not a lore concern, that's purely a roleplay issue on a personal level. Xaela aren't nearly as restricted by lore as, say, White Mages are... and yet I can point to people who have creatively justified their divergence of origin.

Culture doesn't just vanish because you emigrate/immigrate. Nomadic warrior peoples are not going to suddenly stop roaming or fighting territorial disputes just because they've been displaced. Assimilation is not instant, it takes years if not decades (I should know, my entire family immigrated to the U.S. back in the 70s and we're still VERY cultural w/ regards to our ethnic background). It's like adding two tomcats who are new to each other to a household that already has two pugs for dogs. Staking out and fighting over and establishing territory is still going to happen... and the dogs rarely even care. (I've done this). I see Xaela in the same vein. Eorzea is just more territory over which to feud ("We earned the trust of the Gridanians, Johnston, YOU cant live here" "Well, Avery, Thanalan sucks, so we're moving in!")

Oh, I'm not saying don't throw knives. I'm not even saying it's not possible. I'm just saying that someone in, say, Varlet's Hauberk, Gauntlets, and Sabatons is going to have a very hard time selling Death Blossom as an in-character thing.

Sorry, amend that to "city-state". My point was that he's the equivalent of a grunt who lacks the accolades and resulting prestige to chill, on call, "at home". So he gets posted to a deadbeat watchpost. [/hyperbole]

*cough*racism*cough* EDIT: To clarify, I'm of the opinion that only Elezen were present in that scene because the Ishgardians present a very xenophobic front that implies a trend of racism among its populace. I would not be surprised to learn that only Elezen knights are permitted in the presence of the Holy See / Isghardian archbishop or pope / whatever the nomenclature for the Head of Ishgard is. It was very clearly and specifically mentioned that the conflict which Steps of Faith represents is but one of many happening at the same time as the dragons assault Ishgard. Where were the rest of the dragoons? Fending off those simultaneous attacks, I'd wager. Could argue that his choice of diction is because he's twiddling his thumbs out in the middle of Coerthas instead of in Ishgard defending the homeland. These are bizarre oddities. I can only conclude that "dragoon" then is a general term used for a specific caliber of knights, as previously suggested, with those in drachen mail being the elite.

I can cross-class Death Blossom? I CAN CROSS CLASS DEATH BLOSSOM!!! THANK YOU ANIME MAN! You have made me a happy MRD! This is one of those "should character A always be capable of feat X" moments. Leaping into the air and throwing that many knives, while already anime-seque in and of itself, further stretches willing suspension of disbelief when you're doing so while weighed down by that much armor.

Yeah, they do, I just figured "lancer" was the easier reference, given their seeming predisposition towards polearms.

In Whitebrim there is an actual cannon fodder knight you meet in the course of the MSQ. He asks you to go find the corpse of the big dragon he killed; when you do, he is utterly elated and believes that he'll be receiving a highly coveted promotion to the Temple Knights befitting a noble like himself. In another quest, you're asked to venture into the lair of the behemoth and recover the corpses of a bunch of scrubby dragoons who royally screwed up and got wiped. I will try and find these to link here. Thank you, I'd like to read those. I vaguely recall the quests in question. My comment sprang up more from recent quests featuring Ser Aymeric. He refers to the Temple Knights as often and as frequently as Raubahn referred to the Immortal Flames, and in much the same way/manner. Unless I'm misunderstanding the Temple Knight designation, I think the comparison stands. The Temple Knights are the lancers in those hauberks with the blue vambraces, are they not? A few of them were betrayed and slaughtered by Iceheart's faction prior to Steps of Faith?

I'd actually disagree. Temple Knights seem more equivalent to Brass Blades or Immortal Flames, in a way. They get mentioned all the time and as far as the Main Story Quests go, they are basically cannon fodder.

Generally speaking, many gameplay elements don't necessarily translate to narrative/lore/what-have-you. This is one of those gray areas. I'm not at all surprised that you didn't find anything on the subject, because unless I'm mistaken there isn't anything to find. My personal approach is to look at a character's capabilities. Is Character A capable of X, Y, and Z? If yes, are they always / should they always be capable of X, Y, and Z? As an example, I find myself against the concept of cure-slinging pugilists on the principle that any such character would have needed training and/or inborn talent at conjury in addition to their physical skills. If a student from Stillglade Fane traveled to Ul'dah and attended lessons at the pugilists' guild, though? Fair game! Cross-class skills from job subclasses, IMO, make far more sense as guidelines for in-character capabilities than cross-classing as a base class (which basically lets you take anything from ANYWHERE, hello Blizzard II casting lancers).

Underrated roleplayer. Roleplay with this hunk of dark chocolate!

Updated!

Do we have any confirmation of non-elezen and non-hyur dragoons yet in the canon? I'm honestly curious. Hyur we know because of Alberic. EDIT: Discounting the main character of course.

Kokojo for "A Dragon's Shadow," please. <3

4. One of Seven Samurai, please.

[Moderator Hardhat] These things never end well once folks stop being civil (read: constant derailing) so I'll be locking this here. Further discussion can be had in new topics. [/Moderator Hardhat]

[Moderator Hardhat] BEHAVE. This thread is now on watch. I've had to hand out warnings already. Don't make me reach for temporary bans. If you don't have anything constructive to say, move on and address something/someone else. [/Moderator Hardhat]

Its that fine line between extraordinary capability and "super-powers", one contributes toward immersion and the other can threaten it. Unfortunately there really are no hard and fast rules are there! And worse than that, everyone has their own individual perspective! Its coooooomplicated! Ehhhh, I'd debate the existence of a fine line. It might look fine from a distance, like a solar terminator, but when you get real close you see that it's really one huge, long, wide field of grey.

I love folks who roleplay as Brass Blade #173... and roleplay it well. Not everyone needs be a snowflake, and not everyone needs be bottom-of-the-rung average D&D townsperson. There's a whole spectrum in between those rungs, too.