Zhavi

This is my new favorite line of history. While obvious that you're (probably) not done with this character's wiki, this single line divulges an apparent focus of this character, and the added humor is just telling enough without going overboard. It's evocative, even if it's only a placeholder, and I can definitely appreciate that! Always love seeing characters that strike me as being fun or unique. :3

Ditto on this. Don't know, but am curious. I also haven't read any threads with in depth speculation on specifics about astrologians, but I am very, very interested in seeing some start!

Initial posts commenting on negativity Speculation as to why the negativity was happening Discussion of what the negativity entailed People feeling ignored, or that there was a sort of in/out crowd People feeling like there is a steep and sometimes insurmountable rp barrier of entry for new people. Followup discussion on the perception surrounding and of that rp barrier. [*] Supposition that the Rep system could be part of the in/out crowd Followup discussion of the nature of forums and how reputation does or does not affect negativity [*]General comments surrounding why there might be a perception of feeling ignored or overlooked Followup discussion on feelings about that, and feelings on whether or not that perception is legitimate (as I understand it)

First, I'm not trying to bait you back in -- but I do feel it is important to address your concerns, because they are concerning to me. But, sometimes I get frustrated because I don't understand. I try to, I do. Where I come from, when you post a thread without first contacting other people, you get ignored. Not intentionally -- it's just that people are off doing xyz, and unless they have rped with you, or have talked to you to some extent, they're not going to be comfortable jumping into a thread with you. So, to me, it is an inherent risk of posting an open thread without first contacting someone: people won't bite. I am sorry for repeating myself, because I tend to say this fairly regularly in these types of topics, but I have almost never been approached for rp for my character outside of people who I approached first, in almost every single rp community I have ever been in. At the time I had like four to seven threads in the IC forum at once? Those were all people I contacted, who I'd never spoken to before, essentially begging them to rp with me. They were all also (for the most part) people who rarely if ever posted on the forums. Now, I understand that not everyone wants to be aggressive as I am, or maybe even finds it offputting, but please hear me out from my perspective: Every time I am rejected I feel a little hurt. That is my personality. I am sensitive. However, I also understand that it is actively hurtful to my chances to allow that hurt to hold me back, and so I lick my wounds privately and keep going on. Going on is freaking hard for me. I tend to blame myself when rp stutters, or someone stops posting mid thread, or continually has an excuse not to rp with me. But I have to firmly remind myself, each time: the chances of it being personal are next to nothing, and even if the person doesn't like me, oh well, there are other people out there. I tend to be my own worst critic. 99.99999% of rpers I know are this way. Not getting positive feedback does not necessarily mean you're bad and no one likes your writing or wants to rp with you, but it can feel that way. Not everyone is into your style of rp. Zhavi is a niche character, and the rp I wanted to do on her is niche rp. Not everyone wants to do that kind of rp. There are sometimes specific rps people want to do, or specific things they want to write, or LIKE I AM RIGHT NOW, are limiting how much rp they are doing because too much becomes stressful and not fun. It has no bearing on how they feel about my rp, and assuming things about what people do or do not think will not change anything and may negatively impact my perception of future rp. The more niche you are, the harder time it is to find rp. It got to a point on Zhavi where I had bitten off more than I could chew. I was digging through 10-20 character wikis a day at one point, searching for someone who I thought might be willing to rp with me. If I had not done that, chances are I would have gotten zero rp. I don't understand. I want to help. Whenever I have seen someone asking why no one wants to rp with them, why they've had trouble, etc etc etc, I try to post something to help. Yet, it's like whenever I post these posts, the people who need it or who are having problems completely ignore it or poof. I don't know what happens to them. I hope they got something out of their comments. I hope they find rp. But I do not know, as an individual, or as a part of the greater community what else I am supposed to do. So when I see posts like this, I am disappointed, too, because it appears to me as a major disconnect. I am reaching out, and I feel like the people who are asking for a hand are sort of slapping my hand away. I want to see suggestions. I want to see people actively stating "here is a problem, here are my thoughts, and here are some things I think might work -- what do you think?" When I see posts done with finality, with a sort of throwing hands up in the air mentality -- I don't understand. Please help me understand.

It's one of those uneasy middle ground things. Calling out people can result in petty arguments and hurt feelings. Being vague stalls the petty arguments and hurt feelings, but leads to more people going 'is that me? am I part of the problem?' I know I've felt that way, just like sometimes I get a very strong impression that I'm being annoying or annoying someone in general. Sometimes I want to foster or encourage a discussion and am either ignored or taken in a way I didn't want to be taken -- but, well, that's every community. In the end I go to rl friends and they do the awkward headpat thing like 'I have no idea why you're getting riled over your silly and sometimes bizarre hobbies, but you're ok' ... and, most of time time, I am ok. I don't know what your private discussions are, but better to send someone a pm and see for sure rather than not; to me you've always been a positive rp influence, Warren, and inclusive.

That people are taking their time to share their concerns and suggestions is, to me, a clear sign that people really care about this community and keeping it a positive and fun place. I like the people here. I like it here.

Personal responsibility is what I've been peddling for almost all of my posts in this thread -- but I also think it's worthwhile exploring other options. edit - exploring as in thinking about and hypothesizing about, to get feedback on and get opinions on, such as Max's input. I don't think that's inherently negative.

Apologies: concrit is a shorthand way of saying 'constructive critique' or 'constructive criticism.' It's been used pretty widely on the writing forums I've frequented as a means to discourage people from being too gungho on ripping into peoples' writing. While ripping into a person's writing can be an excellent way to improve, there are numerous people for whom that does not work -- and so it's better to let someone request getting their writing ripped to shreds, and the word 'concrit' is a gentle way to remind people of that. edit -curses, foiled again!

First of all, is the RPC really that hostile? Secondly, do you think that the overall tone matters more? Or that some theoretical person with a high rep count acting like a jerk in a thread really has that much impact? All I can think of is that this is way overreacting, and getting lost in navel gazing. I, personally, haven't really noticed an overabundance of negativity -- what I have noticed is a lot of people saying that they feel ostracized, shut out, ignored, beaten down, and/or hesitant to post around other people. My post is a hypothetical based off of some of the comments in this thread from new people. Yes, it leans towards the extreme end, but that is part and parcel of human behavior. We adjust our behavior to communities, especially if there is a perception of someone who is respected and/or popular behaving a certain way. Does it mean I'm right? No, but it doesn't mean I'm wrong, either.

My concern with that: There's already an existing attitude towards anyone with a certain number of reputation bumps. I won't invoke the off-topic "P" word but a week won't change any single person's opinion that's already on this board: The red names and green numbers are already noted by the people who will take umbrage with them. I will admit that I thought I was doing a small service for the folks posting on the Welcome Board. When you're someone new to a community and you're making a post where you're not sure if you're going to be received well (if at all!) I thought it helped to see someone with an older date and a big number of posts and such greet you. It's one thing to slip quietly into a new community, it's something else to walk into a party and have someone wave you in and go "Hey! You're here! Awesome!" Maybe I'm wrong, though. This whole thread's made me feel very insecure and introspective about how I come across, and honestly? It's just made me want to post less. There's this stigma of "P" word that I can't metabolize, and in the face of not being able to openly discuss issues because of my own guilty conscience I'm going to opt out every single time. I don't want to get into another argument about that particular term but it's stupid and wrong. RP isn't zero sum, and I can say that I personally roleplay with far, far fewer of you all than I'd like. I cant' speak for everyone, obviously, but I've never had a problem with your posts as a whole (I've disagreed with you! But you and I have a lot in common, so - and I generally enjoy your posts). Then again, I haven't felt that way towards anyone. There will be times, in certain threads, when I'll get annoyed with someone or feel aggressive towards their posts, but once I dip out or take a break I forget about it. It's a forum. I generally respect everyone on the board, to varying degrees, and don't dislike anyone -- though I do dislike recurring attitudes or behaviors that I find unproductive. I agree that there is a positive impact that can come from high reputation, when it's used right. Hell, Blizzard recognized that when they created their VIP program for their forums, where consistently helpful and positive people were given green names and post texts. Now, I don't think that would work here (too small, imo), but there are other ways for people to determine longstanding community members: namely join date, post count, and general posting tendencies. There are plenty of people I have never spoken directly to who I recognize by avatar, name, and/or signature. I like the reputation system. I love being able to +1 someone and let them know 'hey! I think your ideas/writing/whatever is awesome!' -- but I can also see how that might change perspective over time, as well as perpetuate the 'celebrity' sense that some people have towards others in the forum.

If people really feel that the RPC is in need of removal of reputations in order to be a friendly, fun place then I honestly have no idea what's going on any more. > You're new to the forum > You see someone with a lot of reputation making a negative post. > You might then be inclined to believe that that sort of posting is normal, encouraged, and perpetuated by the community and staff. > You adjust your behavior to match with what you perceive the community to be.

This is an interesting point. I've had a couple of people suggest to me that the reputation system is not having the desired effect (which is to say, giving bennies to good users) but is instead incentivizing bad behavior as you described. I wonder if the reputation system is, at this point, perhaps causing more harm than good by creating a perception that some people are better than others. Would it better to hide reputation from other users? Remove it entirely? You could do a week long test where you hide it (without destroying reps) and then ask people about perceived changes, maybe with a poll.

(edited for clarity because I forgot a major component in the explanation) Oh, what the hell. In the complaint/rant thread, a common theme is that people want feedback on their writing, and often feel ignored, slighted, or miserable when they get nothing after putting themselves out there. So this is a thread that I've seen thrive in the Nanowrimo forums, and maybe it will thrive here. First, do some constructive criticism for the person above you with whatever segment they've linked. Then, post a link to a post (please don't ask someone to concrit an entire thread) or a section of your wiki that you would like someone to concrit on. When you do the concrit portion, please do not toss out a throwaway one liner (ie, That was wonderful, don't change anything! or Man, you really need to improve.). Point to at least one specific plus and one specific minus, and offer any suggestions you might have. No one has to agree with concrits, but it can be of valuable aid for improving and hearing about what you're doing wrong vs right. So, for starters, hit up the personality section of Zhi's wiki, as found in my sig.

You're definitely intelligent enough to know there's varying levels of criticism and being critical, where I think the goal here would be to focus more on the satisfaction gained from criticism that fosters and empowers a topic rather than tears down those participating. That said, you're insightful and honest: two traits that I find highly valuable. The board is composed of individuals who make individual choices. No one that I've been aware of is an entrenched troll whose sole desire is to sow conflict, so as a result thread moderation can stem the symptoms, but not the cause. Fixing the cause means people making choices on each post, and via each thread they read. And, something I hadn't considered: each post they +1. Maybe it would be cool to have a 'concrit the writing of the person above you' thread, with the intention being for people to link a specific piece of their writing with responses genuinely offering thoughts and advice -- and more than just some throwaway one liner. A common theme throughout this thread has been that people would like more feedback about their writing. edit - concrit thread: http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=11236 So if you feel like your writing isn't being seen, there's an option.

Fortune's Dagger had anchored off the Wolf's Den a small fortune of suns ago. It floated, mostly barren; one among many of the same style, though there were differences. Each ship that berthed there had a different story, and most of them went belly up to the Maelstrom, sucking teat when they were able and keeping to the shadows when they weren't. There was money to be made -- deals to be made. And if you couldn't find your foothold in the crowd, well, you'd get trampled. That was how it was, for their kind. The conditions that had precipated their arrival had not improved. Every day started the same, and every night ended the same, and in between everyone did their best to forget every night. Every morning they all started pretending the failures of the day before were only minor things easily overriden by a few slick words and greased palms. There'd been an official on deck, and that had been bad. They wormed their way over and through Wolf's Den, approaching the same scrags, making the same overtures, presenting better and better offers. There was progress and regression, a natural ebbing, and it wasn't bad except for the fact that the longer they took, the worse the final effect would be further down the line. She'd already taken her fair of hits, and had briefly considered running away -- except for the gun that had been pointed at her head with a sly, crazed grin behind it, taunting her. She was set loose again, that morning, left to her own devices with only a goal to guide her and a threat at her back to keep her moving. "Nim," the lad'd said. Didn't take a genius to spot the man in the crowd, to recognize him. She moved. There wasn't much to the Wolf's Den, and she'd tread all of it, time and time again. She'd gotten to know its strengths, and its weaknesses. It wasn't a place to lose someone in. Instinct pushed her, and she obeyed. There was an art to slipping through a crowd, and half of it was being small enough to dive through opportune spaces. She left nary a stir as she ran, bouncing off posts when she could and landing lightly on planking. Her legs were strong. She knew her body, and knew what she was capable of; fair fights weren't part of her capabilities. What options remained involved losing sight of him, and without the full vertical space she was so used to being part of her world there just wasn't much she could do. There wasn't really anywhere to go. She lunged off of the boardwalk, caught a mooring chain and almost slipped from it to the water. Her fingers screamed as she got one leg wrapped on it. She was upside down as she started climbing up it, a mental map of the ship's nooks and crannies spreading out before her as she reached the ship's side. Once she'd wrestled her way atop the chain, she balanced for one dangerous moment with her heart in her throat, and jumped upwards; she barely caught the edge of a window slit and pulled herself up. She might not be a fighter, but she'd been hauling herself around for most of her life. She knew every pain, every limit, and every exception to those limits. She paused on the threshhold to the interior of the ship just long enough to see what was inside, and then she threw herself in. Hide and seek.

To be fair there's plenty of people are putting time and effort into finding role-play and they're still struggling to find it through no fault of their own. You can't expect people to be patient forever. I think it's unfair for people to brush off the concerns raised so readily. It's great that you have found a steady supply of role-play but what you experience isn't the same as what everybody else experiences. I also don't think it's a matter of 'entitlement' (can we even use that term to describe people who want role-play on an unofficial role-playing realm?) as much as it's a matter of frustration. Not everybody is keen on attending bustling events either - especially if they're more in favour of something much more personal and character driven. Part of the issue, as I wrote in my post, is that in order to help someone you need specific problems in order to give good, helpful advice. And so, most of the time, generic advice is given ad nauseam and nothing really changes because it probably doesn't apply to the specific problems specific people are having. People need to come forward with a can do attitude. If they have shyness or social anxiety issues, as I've said, then maybe speak to a trusted friend and have them bring forth the issues. It gets really frustrating for people to dole out advice after advice after advice to keep seeing 'none of you care, and you're all the problem for not being open enough," you know? Because there are a lot of people here who do want to help and like to help. But if all anyone ever sees is 'nothing is working, no one is able to rp, there are too many cliques' -- then how can anyone help? Saying "hey, the faucet is leaking and no one wants to help" isn't going to get the faucet fixed. Where is the faucet? What kind of faucet is it? Have you tried asking for a friend's help and is it still leaking? What methods have your tried on it? Have you called someone? Has someone tried to help but you were out of the house or sleeping? You know? There is no one fix for everyone. So in the meantime everyone trots out the only advice they can give in a generic situation and hope that it helps.

I felt it important to note that summer to early fall of 2014 people were lucky to get one or two people welcoming them. . .it's actually gone way up from where it was. edit : It is one thing if people are literally scared of reaching out to other people, but no. There is a burden on both parties. You cannot be expected to drag someone out to rp, nor can you be expected to continue to spend energy on someone who is not replying, not putting forth the effort, or continually telling you 'not right now, sorry'.

It's probable that an expensive package I was eagerly awaiting was stolen or misdelivered. Will start making calls tomorrow, but it was really, really disappointing to come home when the tracking told me it had been left on my porch and find absolutely nothing. Canhashug?

Really? We're starting with this again? Christ. People are free to disagree, of course, but it's something that I believe there's a lot of merit to. Of course, if you don't believe it's a problem then that's fine - but since multiple people have expressed the same concerns I think it's safe to give the theory more than a dismissive 'Christ'. This is. . .frustrating to me. Sometimes, with this whole thing, it seems like the biggest problem is that people are too willing to echo each other without coming up with solutions. I don't really know how I'm regarded. I know that some people have complimented me, and I know that when I look for it, I can find rp. I talk to exactly one person outside of the game in its entirety (not counting Jager, since I've known him for years and brought him into the game), and if you count people who reach out to me in game to talk, that makes two. I'm not in a FC. The few LS I'm in are dead (the rest I've been removed from because of my inactivity streak, which is totally and completely understandable). Yet I am sure that I could find rp easily if I chose. It's not because I'm in with anyone. It's because I seek others out. It's not because it is not difficult for me -- there are some who can probably remember before August 2014 when I stalked newbies posting and would ask them to rp with me. Most of them never tried to contact me. The few I actually reached out to in pms still did not always work, and this is with me giving them my times available, finding them in game, and trying to rp with them. The problems that I see are that too often people are willing to point out the problem, talk about it for words and words and words, but they aren't willing to alter their behavior beyond anything superficial. You can't find rp? What are the specific problems? What do you even need help with? Most of the time I find myself giving generic advice because without an active discussion, that's all I can do. When people get snippy, what do you do? When I'm involved, I try to diffuse it. To me, when people are snippy or frustrated or getting negative, it's often because they feel unheard, like they don't matter, or like they have utterly no control in how things are going. It's like the LoL community. People I talk to who play tell me about how toxic their games can get. I had those same games. You know what? After I made a conscious effort to be kinder and more responsive to people who were feeding, making horrendous remarks, or threatening to afk based on whatever thing I could generally get them to stop with that behavior and participate in a more positive way (no, not perfect most of the time, but still much better). Hell, the best one I can remember was when someone was taking their sweet time to bash the hell out of me. I sweetly told them that I wasn't an expert and would greatly appreciate any advice they had -- and guess what? I got oodles of advice throughout the game, most of which I didn't even follow, but just that little effort of giving that person a sense of control over the situation and letting him know that yes, dude, I hear you and let's try to compromise helped. I remember that one the most clearly because it was the first time I tried that tactic. Most of the time after that, it worked. It's the same thing here. It's the same thing everywhere. When you get negative, people respond in kind. You can't expect someone else to break the cycle, or someone else to take responsibility. You have to take responsibility to try and address problems you see, even if it is a simple "man, you know, I hear what you're saying but I really wish you could make that point a little nicer. Snark vs snark is only going to make more snark. It doesn't make you look cooler. Being willing to swallow your 'cool factor' and just say something nice? Yeah, that diffuses things way better than just about anything else. Be tactful. Be kind. Be polite. Rely on your logic and patience to make your point (not everyone understands things the same way, and sometimes people misunderstand things -- I know I have!), not how well you can cut someone off at the knees. If you find yourself unable to take a step back and cool down, or the other person is having a hard time cooling down: stop. That's it. That's really it. Focusing on how bad things are without offering up solutions tends, in my experience, to exacerbate the problem. I'm not saying this thread is a bad idea, because I believe talking about things is how you move forward. BUT, just giving up isn't going to work either. You don't get anything unless you accept some risk and try. And putting people on a pedestal, in my opinion, is a huge god damn part of the problem. Everyone here is just like you. It's just some of them post frequently. Yes, there are some beautiful writers here, but don't look up to them! Learn from the bits of writing that you like! Don't treat them like they are some other class of writer from you! IN SUMMATION. => Be specific when you have a problem. If possible, self-identify things you need help with. People can only help if you let them know what works and what doesn't work. => You can't do shit without opening yourself up to some risk and potential hurt, and being willing to try different ways of doing things that may be uncomfortable. (do note: social anxiety is a real problem, and shyness can be crippling: but even still you have to be willing to speak up, even if it's through a trusted friend. It sucks, but jack all will change unless you make some sort of move) => Be kind to negative people. Chances are they need it, and chances are that'll fix things. If it doesn't, just let it go. Perpetuating is not going to help. => No one is better than anyone else, so don't treat anyone like they are. => IF YOU CATCH YOURSELF BEING A NEGATIVE NEGATRON, APOLOGIZE IN PMs TO THE PEOPLE YOU HAVE BEEN A BUTT TO, OR AT THE VERY LEAST WITHDRAW FROM THE DISCUSSION. => Nothing changes without people making effort to be active of making change.

You're one of those people I see around on the RPC all the time and I think, you know, I should have rped with him way long ago. You're just one of those people who seems really fun to rp with.

Ha ha definitely understandable! I'm more likely to defer to you on the whole thing because I am in no way good with history, or a history buff. I R DUMB. I'm just hoping for something neat and then I will devour anything I can find when it comes to examples in history! 8D And probably poke some of you history buffs until you want to strangle me. Also LS's would be great, I know of one thus far that I'm in called Othard United. It's for general Eastern characters, Domans, future Au Ra, what have you but it's a start if there are no others out there and they're friendly! I'm just ... like, a dream to me would be getting a phd in cultural anthropology and going to mongolia. FOR REASONS I DON'T KNOW YET. But yeah. And AND I also want LSs. And stuff. And discussion where I can ogle others' ideas. If anyone is interested in romani style nomadism, check this film out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbWNJVVbGTI Superb ethnography without some bothersome narrator telling you what to look at.

Though I'm sure there will be unique tribes out there that might not be specifically that. If anything has been proven it's that nature doesn't always follow a set pattern, most of the time, but not always. I don't think a Pastoralist or even a Gypsy style tribe would be too far fetched. Not at all. That's just my two cents on that of course. The former is probably more likely than the latter. Hehe, yeah, that's why it's my bet, too. In which case, hell, wouldn't it be interesting to have African themed tribes? But probably not. They'll prolly stick to central eurasia. But it's funny if there are hunter-gatherers on steppes, because steppes groups were pastoralist. (all of the ones I know of were) But rp is rp, and in the end some clever thinking can make anything possible, as you say. I'm just obsessive, is all I can't help myself.

I blame end-of-cycle boredom. People need new and shiny things to distract them. But also, lots of people are in school. Finals should be coming up soon. Stress can make people testy. *shrugs*

I was uh... yeah, my goal is to shoe-in a Mongolian name by any means possible. Central Eurasian nomadic tribes are hnnnnng, and Mongolians I favor far above the rest (though Russia has some very interesting, albeit rapidly dwindling, groups). If it's too far removed from the given standards, though, I'll go for some weird nickname and reason my way into it. That said, there's still too much unknown. Wandering nomads, such as gypsies (origin Indian, in particular) are drastically different from hunter-gatherers (which is my bet for the xaela), from the pastoralists. How those groups are set up typically depend on how they survive, and their surroundings, and the pressures from outside forces. We know they fight frequently, but we don't know why -- resource scarcity? Xenophobia? Some ancient feud? I mean, there's things I'd love to dig into, but I really don't want to dig in too deep and be totally overturned by the lore later. *looks mournfully at rogue guild* edit - and, too, the Mongolian culture has changed drastically over the centuries. 9th century vs 12th century, 15th century vs 17th: *shrugs* 2nd edit scythians best nomads

"Kink." It was the only word Brindle heard, and he couldn't help stiffening in reaction. He smoothed that over, ducked his head, buried himself in the drink he wasn't really drinking (he needed to stay sober). He wasn't sitting anywhere, not with the room crowded like it was; wasn't no need to. He could move about underfoot, and folk would think he was getting brassy, looking for purses to cut. They'd think him downer, and needing to be fed. They wouldn't think he was listening, always listening -- cept for them few what knew him. "Whatta 'bout Kink?" The barman replied, gruff and grizzled, long past caring about the shuffling of streetside power politics that ebbed and flowed around lowtown. Brindle settled against the bar two seats down from the roe, out of direct sight, his mug clenched in both hands. He was a skinny lad, Brindle was, fresh off another growth spurt. Five fulms, and six ilms: Zhi had told him once he was going to be too big to be any use climbing the city, and he'd sworn to prove her wrong. He needed to prove her wrong, for more'n just that. He knew folk were looking for her. He was gonna find her first.