Magellan

To add onto Gyrs list of why crystal travel is suspect... ... in theory, an invading army (such as garleans) could use them to be everywhere all at once, and totally sack Eorzea. The crystal acces points aren't even guarded or anything Hope I didn't derail here, but it is a thread about time,and I feel travel time is important in settimg the world in rp.

I use the time of day and weather conditions at the start of the conversation. It just seems a little odd to start a conversation mid-morning, and then rp 20 minutes later that it is night, when you haven't been talking that long Though if someone does acknowledge 'oh hey its night!' Or ' oh hey its raining!' Then I will just go along with the flow. I also wonder how people rp distance. The ability to insta-travel and be anywhere at the drop of the hat makes Eorzea feel very, very small to me. Personally, I like to rp airships as cost prohibitive, and crystal travel as being bad for your health (aether sickness and ur body breaking down kind of thing) i'd love to see travel between towns actual mean something, and make the world feel like a bigger place.

"they account for a miniscule percentage of Eorzea's population..." In lore, yes. In practice, they make up about 75% of Eorzea's population on Balmung (I blame improper spaying/neutering practices)

@Arma: Personally I don't find leveling all that easy (cuz I find the story and quests in this game a grindy slogfest) but I am certainly with you on your last point. Mini -games accessible to all levels would be a nice start. Honestly, they will probably get there eventually. SE pays a lot more attention to their game than most devs do, and 4 major patches a year is pretty ambitious and impressive. But outside of rp, have not found the most cordial community though I'm not referring to anyone on this site.

Completely speaking for myself here, but... it all just seems a bit pointless. Why is gear so important? I know plenty of people who don't even seem to enjoy coil, and yet they max their runs every week because.... its what they are supposed to do. I've seen numerous friends almost quit because of how stressful gearing was, and I just had to think to myself.... this is a game, right? You know, something we do for FUN. This mindset of 'must have the best gear even if I hate every minute of it, because otherwise I can't do the game content' sucks the fun right out of gaming, yet SE has done nothing but push things in this one, singular direction. How about some xtra content for those of us who enjoy the journey, not the destination? o: Aysun's pretty lucky to find such a casual group c:

Hello and welcome! This a great community, and I'm sure you'll find lots of great rp!

Again, ^ this . Steel, I agree with everything you just said, and feel exactly as you do. The whole, entire purpose of ffxiv is endgame, which is disappointing for those of us who like other aspects of gaming. I understand endgame content is what keeps a majority of people subbed, but that doesn't mean they should neglect content for other folks. As you alluded to, half the reason I avoid endgame is the culture it fosters; epeens and elitism galore. Impatience and downright rudeness towards us folk who don't gear or grind so good, and may need a helping hand to figure it out. Maybe if SE ever brings the golden saucer into Eorzea, complete with mini-games, things will improve. But for the moment it feels like SE is catering solely to grinders, and that those of us with a more casual approach will never have the opportunity to enjoy new content.

^ this. If only the combat were more interesting...

This is the kind of thing rp communities need more of. Kudos

@Ignacius: I agree that the ffxiv community is pretty unique in that there seem to be more lawmen than criminals. Maybe that's why they've resorted to arresting each other?? My point is a lawmen only has law type authority within their own canon, and within others who have recognized that authority. You cannot expect to be recognized by the entire community because the entire community does not exist within the same canon. Its that simple. That's where the dubiousness of authority comes into play. You have to know your limits. What you are to some people has no direct bearing on who you are to other people. It is not your choice whether or not you get to impose yourself as lawmen in my canon/story. That choice is up to me. Its the same with criminals; I once had a criminal attack my group in the middle of LL in broad daylight, and 'surround us with archers'. In his canon, LL was a loosey-goosey lawless place where such attacks could happen. In my canon it was not.I handled it ICly, but the end result was that he was left under a sleep spell, with the Maelstrom on the way (we left it up to him whether he escaped or not). He was understandably upset his criminal didn't succeed, just as Iwould been upset if he had. It would have broken my canon of LL as a reasonably safe place. That's why OOC communication is key. You cannot assume your take on things is shared by everyone, and you must communicate if you want to impose your will onto someone else's

@ Gyr: Playing auhthority itself isn't necessarily poor form, but assuming you have authority in someone else's plot is. If I elect myself the king of Eorzea and run around demanding everyone bow down to me and pay me taxes... I could get maybe 1 follower? ( there's always one) People have trouble separating the two. They think; 'just because I made myself lawman, I have the right to arrest people.' Well... no, no you do not. I appreciate lawful good never sleeps, and is always on duty, so to speak. Heck, I've played a number of lawful chars myself... but I always make sure I'm welcome in the scene. Making assumptions in rp just like in real life, is often what leads to drama.

I was using the term 'hero' loosely to refer to protaganist :0) some of my favorite characters haven't even been slightly 'heroic'

I would like to completely second Freelance's post and dive a little deeper into it. Playing any sort of powerful or authority figure is highly problematic for several reasons, one of them being a constant evolution of 'one upmanship' in which people get caught up in whose more poweeful than who, and digital pissing matches occur. The root of the problem, as I perceive it; We are all our own GM's: In tabletop RP, the 'players' have relegated control to a GM. They understand and agree the rules, and acknowledge the GM will throw any number of things at them, and settle OOC disputes along the way. The GM is crafting a story, which you are a part of. This is not the case in MMO rp. In MMO rp, WE are our own personal GMs, and in complete control of our story. We have not recognized or acknowledged your authority in telling our story for us. So please do not assume a GM's role without OOC consent, ever. If you want to play a lawman, you will only ever have authority over those who have given you permission to use it. Even if you are given authority, you must use it wisely. Unless someone has specifically stated they give you full control of the story, you must bear this in mind: (I have borrowed this next bit btw, so can't take credit for it!) In MMO, everyone wants to be a 'hero'. They want to create engaging, exciting characters that do interesting things and perform amazing feats. Even if that feat is baking the most delicious cookie ever, its still heroic in your character's eyes, and progresses them towards where you want them to go. The best way to achieve this is through Hero vs Plot. In Hero vs. Plot, you get to control how your story develops, what growth your character undergoes, and when you win and when you lose. Its a great way to build your characters story, because Plot doesn't have feelings, and therefore doesn't care what you do. You can be an elusive pirate that never gets caught, a deadeye archer that can hit a ixal from 500 meters every time, or a vampire mi'qote who's 1000 years old. Plot doesn't care. Go ahead and slay 100 bad guys, oh mighty warrior! And while you're at it, invent the combustion engine that makes airship travel more affordable! While some claims will make your rp more or less accessible to others, plot has got your back every single time (Plot's nice like that ) In Hero vs. Hero, this dynamic radically changes. Because now you are no longer telling your story, but a shared story. Both sides want to be heroic. Both sides want a favorable outcome for themselves, even if its not a favorable outcome for their character. By intruding on someone's plot without their permission, you are removing their ability to control their plot, and basically stating that your plot is more important than theirs. You should never assume your authority is wanted or recognized in someone else's plot. And unlike Plot, players have feelings. They get upset if you make your character look bad or foolish, or blatantly disregard their wishes. Its poor form to put your characters needs before others in a shared scene (I'm not saying characters can't be selfish ICly, that's a completely different thing). Share the stage, do not upstage. Someone elses plot is every bit as important to them as yours is to you, so plan an outcome that can keep everyone happy, don't try to override their plot with your own.

My favorite is the Protector of the Small series

Ooh, I forgot to mention the Golden Compass trilogy by Philip Pullman. What a series!

The Talisman was one of my favorite Stephen King books too! But you forgot to mention Peter Straub! I also really liked The Eyes of the Dragon by King. Tamora Pierce is another favorite! Some of my other favorites: - the Discworld series by Terry Pratchett - A Wizard of Earthsea by Ursula K le Guin - anything by Charles de Lint - Stardust by Neil Gaiman - House of Leaves by Mark Danielewski (I think, memory's a bit fuzzy on that one) - Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carrol .... and I should stop there, before I go on all day and test the potential character limits of a single post.

O_o *backs slowly away from thread* (and by slow I mean fast!)

But... but.... I am the LAW in Eorzea! And any who resist my attempts at arrest are godmodders, meta-gamers, and have poor hygiene! Hehheh, j/k :0) I've been there too. I once witnessed a player flip OOC when someone didn't want to involve themselves in an arrest attempt. They then proceeded to post a wanted poster (again, without the 'criminal's' permission) in an attempt to heckle the other player I guess. Some people really don't understand that rp is a 2-way street. Its about shared story, not 'my story trumps yours'. @ Ignacius: Without OOC agreement, I am never obligated to acknowledge that someone is a lawman trying to arrest me. Its not hard to play a lawman... if you ask. It is hard to play one if you constantly barge in on other people's scenes.

Welcome to the lurkers club ^5!!! I tried to sell myself on this game so hard, b/c the ppl here are so fantastic. Unfortunately my brain and sense of fun gave me a big fat grumpy cat No. If you ever wanna try forum or skype rp while you look for your next game PM me!

Pretty much went through this exact same thing . Unfortunately rp is not enough to gloss over for when you realze: wow, I really don't like this game. Because at that point, shouldn't you just be tabletop or forum rping?

After a year of rping, and trying all the various forms, I can say MMO RP is by far the most seriously flawed and difficult to get into on a consistent basis. I have been at the center of stories, and yet have still been very aware of those on the outside struggling to get in. And of course, I have been where you are; feeling left out. There are a host of problems and misconceptions that occur, which I'll cover below. Please bear in mind these are personal opinions only. We are all sharing the same story. False. There is absolutely no way to get a thousand rpers all on the same page, rping the same broader story, and make everyone happy. I would postulate that its impossible to get forty rpers all on the same page, and make everyone happy, without serious preparation. The reason cliques, and so called insular rp forms, is because we all want those epic storylines, and a quality story can only support so many characters. The fellowship of the ring wouldn't have been that interesting if the fellowship was 25 people. It would be confusing and chaotic. Guild stories fail when they try to cram 50-100 people into a story meant for 10. Its no fun standing on the sidelines and watching the 'popular' characters have all the fun, yet those popular characters never see this, to understand this fact. We all want to have popular characters. We all want to play heroes. Smaller groups allows us to achieve this. Because I'm in game, I should be IC. This one's more a personal preference. But being IC all the time makes it harder to create quality rp. You are essentially reduced to rping the boring stuff no one (not even you) cares about. It also makes it harder for others to join your rp. Why? Let's say Mary, Sue, and John are rping one night. They are in a tense scene, where Mary gets seriously injured, Sue struggles to keep her alive, and John is bravely fighting badguys off. The hour grows late, and John has to go to bed, so they cut the scene short. In tabletop, the group sets a time in the future to meet up again, and everyone is able to enjoy the full benefits of that scene. In MMO however, when people are IC all the time, problems arise. Let's say real life hits John like a ton of bricks. Its 4 days before he can log in again. Mary and Sue, not wanting to be scene locked, advance the story without him, and essentially writing him out of it, denying him the chance to reap the rewards of the scene they had established. After a few times of this it is easy to get discouraged. To feel like any attempts at setting up meaningful rp go up in smoke. Scheduled rp that meets everyone's schedule can be a life saver. Its how stories, movies, console rpgs, and most tabletop operates; the plot cannot advance without you present, because you are a part of it. MMO RP often fails in this regard. Good RP is as simple as meeting up and rping. False. Tabletop has gms. Books have authors. Movies have directors; people who are skilled at guiding a story, getting all the characters included, ensuring their 'audiences' fun. The creator has time to prepare; to scheme, to plot, and to bounce ideas off their participants. MMO rp really challenges this formula; instead of writing a story and placing it in front of an audience, or churning out a weekly story for a small group of rpers, content creators are suddenly assaulted by hundreds of rpers wanting premium story content, and wanting it NOW, without contributing to the creation process. This is why SO many guild leaders and gm types burnout in MMOs. They simply are unable to meet the demands of a voracious audience impatient for quality rp day after day after day. Frankly, some people are great at rp, but not good at storytelling. That's fine! But you have to allow the storytellers time to weave you into their plots, and maybe offer help in other areas as you are able. Because I can't break into a clique, I must be unwanted. False. A lot of the time, this actually comes down to a matter of time. People are already trying to appease their regular rp contacts, that they simply feel overwhelmed trying to fit another character in. This goes back to 'a story can only support so many characters'. I see a lot of threads on here of people asking for rp contacts. There will be several replies of what is essentially lip service; people saying 'oh yea, give me a tell sometime!' But then nothing comes of it, because they have not made a firm commitment. And perhaps they are swamped for time and are therefore unable to make that commitment. It has nothing to do with you. People want to be supportive, but can only lend so much of their energy and time without overreaching themselves and becoming burnt out. Supporting a community takes a heckuva lot of structure and planning, and sadly mmos usually lack that Tl;dr - Sadly, I no longer play ffxiv. But if skype rp is your thing, PM me on this site and I'll gladly set up time with you this weekend c: Good luck!

I think the entire point of this thread, and to reference Candle and Igna's last post is: the perfect mmo doesn't exist :c one person's trash is another persons treasure. I actually strongly disliked ffxiv's crafting system. My favorite so far has been gw2. That neat, compact, ACCOUNT WIDE storage system was drool-worthy o: I guess the best we can hope for these days is an mmo that holds our attention 6 months or so. It just stinks having to leave friends and awesomme communities behind

Lol. I wouldn't go that far personally, but... I do not play games to grind. Ever. It defeats the whole purpose of playing games for me, which is to have fun and relax. Ergo, the quest system NEEDS to be fun for me to want to play the game. And the story needs to be involving. Otherwise, it becomes a grind. Which is why when games focus solely on endgame content and the gearing grind, it shows in lack of innovation and playability in other key areas of said game. RP... well rp can happen anywhere, at anytime. You can skype or forum rp in eorzea without once launching FF:ARR. RP should be a nice benefit to a fun game. You should not NEED it to make the game fun. I've learned that lesson the hard way, by dragging myself around games for months that just.... weren't very fun nor interesting to me.

Could not agree with this more. Half the reason I could not get into ffxiv's story at all was the amount of reading required. I love to read, but when you're forced to read paragraph after paragraph of mundane story and tedious questing, it just gets old. Giving npcs voice breathes life into even the most basic of quests,, and adds character, flavor, and depth. From an rper's perspective, having meaningful dialogue options (such as light and dark side) is an absolute dream, cuz its like having your own personal canon going on while you play through the game. I wish more games would focus more of their attentions on making the actual playthrough of the game fun and exciting, rather than focusing so heavily on endgame. I have to say I disagree with this, personally. I really don't mind reading quest text (then again, when you're in architecture, you read a LOT). If development resources are limited and the choices are between adding cutscenes and spoken dialogue or adding improved gameplay elements, I'd go with the latter. As an RPer, I've found that I know a good dozen or so roleplayers who write more interesting stories for RP than the actual developers. Story is tantamount to my enjoyment of a game. I know people have different 'lists' for the top things they look for in a game, and I completely respect that but personally, if I'm going to invest a hefty chunk of time in a game, it will be because the story keeps driving me forward and I want to find out more. On a whole, mmo's fall well short in spinning compelling narratives. I agree in most cases rpers come up with better stories than the devs, and that's part of the problem for me! I guess coming from a console rpg background where it was all about story, I just expect a little more from main storylines.

Could not agree with this more. Half the reason I could not get into ffxiv's story at all was the amount of reading required. I love to read, but when you're forced to read paragraph after paragraph of mundane story and tedious questing, it just gets old. Giving npcs voice breathes life into even the most basic of quests,, and adds character, flavor, and depth. From an rper's perspective, having meaningful dialogue options (such as light and dark side) is an absolute dream, cuz its like having your own personal canon going on while you play through the game. I wish more games would focus more of their attentions on making the actual playthrough of the game fun and exciting, rather than focusing so heavily on endgame.