The Talk Thread (Please Read the Rules)

[111]

Legit Talk Thread

 

Hello all, I feel there has been a recent trend on RPC towards sanitizing discussion. Discussions have seemed to break off into two categories, either hugbox threads where no one disagrees with anything. Or threads with 'disagreement' which are heavily moderated, as people snipe at each other passive aggressively, since speaking their mind would cause them to be warned.

 

So this is the legit talk thread about that issue. Here are the rules of the legit talk thread.

 

1) You can only talk about people DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY who have posted in this thread. Posting in this thread puts you under the purview of the legit talk thread.

 

2) If you post in this thread, your first post must include a disclaimer that you understand the rules.

 

3) You can say whatever you want that does not violate the overall rules of the website. If you think I'm being a fucking idiot for thinking how I do, I'd rather just hear it.

 

4) No Images AT ALL. No empty quoting, no single word responses.

 

5) You are not allowed to respond to a post for thirty minutes after it is posted. Sit back, have a cup of tea, think about what is being said, and then post. Sometimes I feel these threads are a race to the bottom, with people trying to get in the last word before the thread is closed.

 

Here is the disclaimer you should add to your first post

 

I understand all the rules of the legit talk thread, and will obey them. If I am found to have broken any of the rules, I will refrain from posting in the thread for a week. I understand that the purpose of this thread is to try and maintain discussion in good faith

 

The first question I will ask is:

What do you think of this thread? Do you agree with what I think has happened in the RPC community? Was the RPC community always this way?

 

Remember, please do not respond for 30 minutes.

Edit: You can respond to a /Post/ in thirty minutes, so you can discuss the content of my post now, but not Franz's. Give it some time to absorb.

[Unnamed Mercenary]

I understand all the rules of the legit talk thread, and will obey them. If I am found to have broken any of the rules, I will refrain from posting in the thread for a week. I understand that the purpose of this thread is to try and maintain discussion in good faith

 

If I say anything calling you it, it's against the forum rules. Since you've had some issues with the elaborated version, I'll mark the important part in red from the "old" ones. By them, I'm not supposed to admit in the thread I think it's stupid for you to try to bait people.

 

1. Respect: "Be Excellent to Each Other." Please respect all fellow posters and role-players on these boards. That means no flame wars, no discrimination, no godmoding, no metagaming, no harassment, and no snarky attitudes. Additionally, don't call out individuals or groups by name on the forums for their actions; if you want to discuss the actions without mentioning those performing them, however, that's acceptable. Part of our respect for you is that we will never display ads, use third-party analytics tools, send you unsolicited e-mail, or provide your e-mail address to a third party except as required by law.

 

edit: dammit. My computer clock deceived me. Ignore for 4 more minutes.

[g0ne]

I understand all the rules of the legit talk thread, and will obey them. If I am found to have broken any of the rules, I will refrain from posting in the thread for a week. I understand that the purpose of this thread is to try and maintain discussion in good faith.

 

Well, first off, I think this is a very valid and important thread you've posted up. Very critical, if I must say so, considering the RPC as of late. And I really hope that the thread maintains a healthy, good discussion, and doesn't derail like many others because I see it being a very well thought idea.

 

Secondly, I have to agree with you completely about the situation of the RPC as of late. There's the happy threads (and to be honest I like them, I post on them) and then there's the discussion threads. Now, I've said this countless times, discussion, heck, even argument is not a negative thing. It's people sharing their opinions and supporting their views with solid debate. Discussion or argument does not equate to anything aggressive, or personal. It's merely the views and opinions of a person, and since each individual is unique, yes, views and opinions differ. That does not mean it has to turn out into a volatile and readily combustible battlefield. 

 

I think we need to accept that every person is different and that our opinions and views are not an obligation upon others. The same goes for others. Sure, listen to their side of the argument, but no one's forcing you to accept it. And so, there's no need to go aggressive or hostile or lash out. Listen to things with a calm head. No one's forcing their values on you. But it's also very important that you respect others, and their values and principles, as well. Very important. 

 

Lastly, I'll be honest. When I first came here, I was really really happy. I thought this was one of the best communities I had ever seen on the Internet. But lately, even I'm scared. Because the RPC is like a home to all of us. And we're trying our best to portray a negative image of this home, and try to set it aflame. So, we have to figure out what's going wrong, and make this the awesome community it has the greatest potential of being.

[Melodia]

I understand all the rules of the legit talk thread, and will obey them. If I am found to have broken any of the rules, I will refrain from posting in the thread for a week. I understand that the purpose of this thread is to try and maintain discussion in good faith.

 

The thread is a valid one. I think it's healthy to sit down and discuss things in a more meta sense about the community and the site. So I think the thread has merit. Now....how the moderators may see it is a different thing.

 

I have been in this community for a year now. I've seen a lot of things. A lot of things. Hell....the page is up at my work every single day all day. Only time I am not on is when it's the weekend. I've seen great forum rp, interesting discussions, and even seen some new folks come and thrive. I've also seen some things that downright shocked me...some of the negativity....brashness toward a subject....it's surprising is all. This is my first MMO ever. My first foray into rp in a game like this. So some of the negative stuff shocks me at times.

 

I've not aided in things though. I am introspective enough to know that at times I've tossed lit matches onto gasoline here. Said things that have either hurt my standing in the community or have put me at odds with folks I don't want to be at odds with. There're people right now who don't speak to me that I wish to whatever God is out there would, but I can't force them, and know I've made my bed and need to lie in it. But I digress....my point is....I have been part of that negativity.

 

I wouldn't say the recent threads are bad. I find them to be fun...sometimes when getting into a heavy discussion about Au Ra or housing or White Mages....a simple hug thread or compliment thread can be a nice relief. Like a caucus at work when the Unions and I are having a heated discussion. That little break helps refocus....so I look at those threads like that. Have to be able to have some fun while we're here or we may all just butt heads a lot. And I like that the site offers a lot of options....some are not into forum rp. Some don't care for heavy lore discussions. And others don't do screenshots, etc. But the variety of threads and subjects allows for us all to co-exist and share the site.

 

That's my two cents. I enjoy the community and the site.

[111]

 

If I say anything calling you it, it's against the forum rules. Since you've had some issues with the elaborated version, I'll mark the important part in red from the "old" ones. By them, I'm not supposed to admit in the thread I think it's stupid for you to try to bait people.

 

1. Respect: "Be Excellent to Each Other." Please respect all fellow posters and role-players on these boards. That means no flame wars, no discrimination, no godmoding, no metagaming, no harassment, and no snarky attitudes. Additionally, don't call out individuals or groups by name on the forums for their actions; if you want to discuss the actions without mentioning those performing them, however, that's acceptable. Part of our respect for you is that we will never display ads, use third-party analytics tools, send you unsolicited e-mail, or provide your e-mail address to a third party except as required by law.

 

edit: dammit. My computer clock deceived me. Ignore for 4 more minutes.

 

Thanks for hopping in Merc.

 

Yes, I understand that that rule could lead to a violation of the site rules. If that happens, we shall see what happens, no? I view this as a test bed, and a way to discuss certain issues. I make no secret of the fact that I'm uncomfortable with some of those rules, and that I think they can create, in the long run, more hostility instead of less.

 

Do you think if I don't agree with the rules of this website, I just shouldn't post here? I'm asking this honestly. Do you think every member should agree to every rule?

 

Also this has already illuminated an issue, the site clock is 4 minutes behind GMT.

 

Eleni, I'll respond to your post in a little bit, but thank you for joining us.

[111]

I understand all the rules of the legit talk thread, and will obey them. If I am found to have broken any of the rules, I will refrain from posting in the thread for a week. I understand that the purpose of this thread is to try and maintain discussion in good faith.

 

Well, first off, I think this is a very valid and important thread you've posted up. Very critical, if I must say so, considering the RPC as of late. And I really hope that the thread maintains a healthy, good discussion, and doesn't derail like many others because I see it being a very well thought idea.

 

Secondly, I have to agree with you completely about the situation of the RPC as of late. There's the happy threads (and to be honest I like them, I post on them) and then there's the discussion threads. Now, I've said this countless times, discussion, heck, even argument is not a negative thing. It's people sharing their opinions and supporting their views with solid debate. Discussion or argument does not equate to anything aggressive, or personal. It's merely the views and opinions of a person, and since each individual is unique, yes, views and opinions differ. That does not mean it has to turn out into a volatile and readily combustible battlefield. 

 

I think we need to accept that every person is different and that our opinions and views are not an obligation upon others. The same goes for others. Sure, listen to their side of the argument, but no one's forcing you to accept it. And so, there's no need to go aggressive or hostile or lash out. Listen to things with a calm head. No one's forcing their values on you. But it's also very important that you respect others, and their values and principles, as well. Very important. 

 

Lastly, I'll be honest. When I first came here, I was really really happy. I thought this was one of the best communities I had ever seen on the Internet. But lately, even I'm scared. Because the RPC is like a home to all of us. And we're trying our best to portray a negative image of this home, and try to set it aflame. So, we have to figure out what's going wrong, and make this the awesome community it has the greatest potential of being.

 

I agree with most of this.

 

I do want to bring up one point you said and elaborate on it though. I don't think this community is bad, or it has gone way downhill. I've been here for about 18 months (little longer) and I feel like in reality it hasn't changed all that much.

 

People still used to get mad about certain threads, topics would get closed, and people would argue strongly. However it was never viewed as a great cancer, or things going to shit.

 

It was just how it was, sometimes people get mad and disagree about things. I don't think there is any way to prevent it from time to time.

[g0ne]

I understand all the rules of the legit talk thread, and will obey them. If I am found to have broken any of the rules, I will refrain from posting in the thread for a week. I understand that the purpose of this thread is to try and maintain discussion in good faith.

 

Well, first off, I think this is a very valid and important thread you've posted up. Very critical, if I must say so, considering the RPC as of late. And I really hope that the thread maintains a healthy, good discussion, and doesn't derail like many others because I see it being a very well thought idea.

 

Secondly, I have to agree with you completely about the situation of the RPC as of late. There's the happy threads (and to be honest I like them, I post on them) and then there's the discussion threads. Now, I've said this countless times, discussion, heck, even argument is not a negative thing. It's people sharing their opinions and supporting their views with solid debate. Discussion or argument does not equate to anything aggressive, or personal. It's merely the views and opinions of a person, and since each individual is unique, yes, views and opinions differ. That does not mean it has to turn out into a volatile and readily combustible battlefield. 

 

I think we need to accept that every person is different and that our opinions and views are not an obligation upon others. The same goes for others. Sure, listen to their side of the argument, but no one's forcing you to accept it. And so, there's no need to go aggressive or hostile or lash out. Listen to things with a calm head. No one's forcing their values on you. But it's also very important that you respect others, and their values and principles, as well. Very important. 

 

Lastly, I'll be honest. When I first came here, I was really really happy. I thought this was one of the best communities I had ever seen on the Internet. But lately, even I'm scared. Because the RPC is like a home to all of us. And we're trying our best to portray a negative image of this home, and try to set it aflame. So, we have to figure out what's going wrong, and make this the awesome community it has the greatest potential of being.

 

I agree with most of this.

 

I do want to bring up one point you said and elaborate on it though. I don't think this community is bad, or it has gone way downhill. I've been here for about 18 months (little longer) and I feel like in reality it hasn't changed all that much.

 

People still used to get mad about certain threads, topics would get closed, and people would argue strongly. However it was never viewed as a great cancer, or things going to shit.

 

It was just how it was, sometimes people get mad and disagree about things. I don't think there is any way to prevent it from time to time.

 

No. I'm not saying that the community is bad. I would never say that. I said that it's one the best communities I've seen, and I do believe that. I've seen and met and gotten to know lots of awesome people here. I mean it. 

 

But when I first joined I didn't notice so many threads full of discussion wars. Maybe it's just me but recently I've felt like there's been more of an influx of aggression and threads are going haywire more. 

 

I, however, will stand with my opinion that we seemed to have gotten scarier. And that were scaring people away. New and old alike. Maybe scaring isn't the correct term but something along those lines.

[OttoVann]

Someone real talk me, I'm on my phone so I can't be too verbose.

 

Editing in a thought of mine

 

In that thread I made about people who are nasty outside the RPC, certain people came into the thread with nothing to add, but also with a clear and concerted effort to derail it because they didn't like it (and they very are guilty of being nasty about users here on other sites, so likely felt threatened by the thread). I'm not terribly upset by the closing of the thread, but I am surprised, as an outsider looking in, that someone can seemingly push mods around like that into closing threads they don't like. The site is great otherwise, and despite that still is.

 

I can only encourage more users to use the looking for connections subforum, meet new people and grow.

[Desu Nee]

I understand all the rules of the legit talk thread, and will obey them. If I am found to have broken any of the rules, I will refrain from posting in the thread for a week. I understand that the purpose of this thread is to try and maintain discussion in good faith

 

I've said that once before, but I'm really not a person of writing long, exhaustive walls of text because I'm a really strong believer that a short, well intentioned text is better than a massive venting wall, which is more to vent the writers frustration that truly putting their point on an objective view. I post images, or "memes" a lot not because I want to derail, or to "hugbox", but because I feel people here come to have fun, enjoy themselves, set RP dates and forum rps, discuss lore and what's not. RPC is an instrument.

 

So I'm gonna be short with it. The problem isn't in the "hugboxes" or the "close admin acting" This is not a wild-west, and as I said, some people here are looking for fun, and to set rp, not to be sniped or passively agressively shot. Not throwing names, but I believe that, as Natalie said, the agressiveness was always here, but some events behind the curtains, as well as the expansion coming, coupled with the recent discussions going to the gutter gave a spike we're all noticing, and flailing around, and repeatly mentioning this. We got it, but this is personal issue of some users, which doesn't go into Admin's role, they're not psychiatrists, and we can't really say names because it's against the rules and what's not.

 

 

In short, talking about this constantly won't solve the issue. The persons who does this a lot need to be adressed.

 

 

I don't know though, I'm not a psychologist.

[Hyrist]

The first question I will ask is:

What do you think of this thread? Do you agree with what I think has happened in the RPC community? Was the RPC community always this way?

 

 

 

First off, *Epic voice engaged* DISCLAIMER!

 

 

I understand all the rules of the legit talk thread, and will obey them. If I am found to have broken any of the rules, I will refrain from posting in the thread for a week. I understand that the purpose of this thread is to try and maintain discussion in good faith

 

 

 

With that out of the way. I think it's an interesting idea having a talk thread. I'm not all certain what sort of topics will end up sprouting from this, but I feel as if it'll be a productive thread, non the less. The 30 minute rule is intriguing. 

 

 

So Topic on my mind.

 

 

Is anyone else as hesitant as I am to post? Most often I browse these forums and often find myself wanting to share things but for some reasons I'm like. "Well, if I share this, what's the encouragement to get them to RP with me? They'll already know." Or "Am I really ok with interjecting this opinion into an ongoing conversation? I don't want to seem rude." 

 

I'm always on the hint of doing something or posting something, then I just find myself taking a step back and go. "Nah." It's never anyone in particular, just an overall shyness. Heck, I've got a huge idea for RP connections but I stopped and pestered poor Freelancewizard privately to get his opinion privately before even trying to post it. 

 

So, does anyone else get this sort of 'cold feet' just with the RPC?

[111]

Someone real talk me, I'm on my phone so I can't be too verbose.

 

Editing in a thought of mine

 

In that thread I made about people who are nasty outside the RPC, certain people came into the thread with nothing to add, but also with a clear and concerted effort to derail it because they didn't like it (and they very are guilty of being nasty about users here on other sites, so likely felt threatened by the thread). I'm not terribly upset by the closing of the thread, but I am surprised, as an outsider looking in, that someone can seemingly push mods around like that into closing threads they don't like. The site is great otherwise, and despite that still is.

 

I can only encourage more users to use the looking for connections subforum, meet new people and grow.

 

Hello Otto, please read the thread rules. Please do mention people directly or indorectly or refrain from posting in this thread.

 

Edit: phrases like "certain people"

[111]

I understand all the rules of the legit talk thread, and will obey them. If I am found to have broken any of the rules, I will refrain from posting in the thread for a week. I understand that the purpose of this thread is to try and maintain discussion in good faith

 

I've said that once before, but I'm really not a person of writing long, exhaustive walls of text because I'm a really strong believer that a short, well intentioned text is better than a massive venting wall, which is more to vent the writers frustration that truly putting their point on an objective view. I post images, or "memes" a lot not because I want to derail, or to "hugbox", but because I feel people here come to have fun, enjoy themselves, set RP dates and forum rps, discuss lore and what's not. RPC is an instrument.

 

So I'm gonna be short with it. The problem isn't in the "hugboxes" or the "close admin acting" This is not a wild-west, and as I said, some people here are looking for fun, and to set rp, not to be sniped or passively agressively shot. Not throwing names, but I believe that, as Natalie said, the agressiveness was always here, but some events behind the curtains, as well as the expansion coming, coupled with the recent discussions going to the gutter gave a spike we're all noticing, and flailing around, and repeatly mentioning this. We got it, but this is personal issue of some users, which doesn't go into Admin's role, they're not psychiatrists, and we can't really say names because it's against the rules and what's not.

 

 

In short, talking about this constantly won't solve the issue. The persons who does this a lot need to be adressed.

 

 

I don't know though, I'm not a psychologist.

 

So how do you think these people should be identified and addressed? I tend to agree, that there can be the tendency to use controversial topics as venues to push personal agendas, or a way to get attention.

 

However I'm not sure how this can be discouraged. I don't think the current rules help this situation (I think they promote it in some respects). How do we encourage people in controversial threads to argue in good faith, and not just try and score e-points?

[Desu Nee]

I understand all the rules of the legit talk thread, and will obey them. If I am found to have broken any of the rules, I will refrain from posting in the thread for a week. I understand that the purpose of this thread is to try and maintain discussion in good faith

 

I've said that once before, but I'm really not a person of writing long, exhaustive walls of text because I'm a really strong believer that a short, well intentioned text is better than a massive venting wall, which is more to vent the writers frustration that truly putting their point on an objective view. I post images, or "memes" a lot not because I want to derail, or to "hugbox", but because I feel people here come to have fun, enjoy themselves, set RP dates and forum rps, discuss lore and what's not. RPC is an instrument.

 

So I'm gonna be short with it. The problem isn't in the "hugboxes" or the "close admin acting" This is not a wild-west, and as I said, some people here are looking for fun, and to set rp, not to be sniped or passively agressively shot. Not throwing names, but I believe that, as Natalie said, the agressiveness was always here, but some events behind the curtains, as well as the expansion coming, coupled with the recent discussions going to the gutter gave a spike we're all noticing, and flailing around, and repeatly mentioning this. We got it, but this is personal issue of some users, which doesn't go into Admin's role, they're not psychiatrists, and we can't really say names because it's against the rules and what's not.

 

 

In short, talking about this constantly won't solve the issue. The persons who does this a lot need to be adressed.

 

 

I don't know though, I'm not a psychologist.

 

So how do you think these people should be identified and addressed? I tend to agree, that there can be the tendency to use controversial topics as venues to push personal agendas, or a way to get attention.

 

However I'm not sure how this can be discouraged. I don't think the current rules help this situation (I think they promote it in some respects). How do we encourage people in controversial threads to argue in good faith, and not just try and score e-points?

I feel we already know some people, and obviously these people know themselves. Some people just have a short fuse, or passionate on the speech, or whatever excuse. Ultimately, we can't really control what people will do, unless there's an according punishment because we aren't the ones typing on their keyboard.

 

What I do believe, is that constantly making threads about it won't help.

[111]

 

 

So Topic on my mind.

 

 

Is anyone else as hesitant as I am to post? Most often I browse these forums and often find myself wanting to share things but for some reasons I'm like. "Well, if I share this, what's the encouragement to get them to RP with me? They'll already know." Or "Am I really ok with interjecting this opinion into an ongoing conversation? I don't want to seem rude." 

 

I'm always on the hint of doing something or posting something, then I just find myself taking a step back and go. "Nah." It's never anyone in particular, just an overall shyness. Heck, I've got a huge idea for RP connections but I stopped and pestered poor Freelancewizard privately to get his opinion privately before even trying to post it. 

 

So, does anyone else get this sort of 'cold feet' just with the RPC?

 

I think this is an aftereffect of the general mood people are speaking of.

 

I personally think you should get yourself involved in any discussion in which you think you might have something useful to say, or you just want your opinion to be known.

 

As for the RP bit, that's a thing I struggle with myself. Its why I currently don't really have a wiki, because I feel like it kills some of the mystery when I RP with people. Its better that they are curious as a player and as a character.

 

Of course you have to give them something... or they won't be interested enough to start asking questions. I have a few idea for threads helping people drop mysterious details so that other people can meet as such. I think there was a plot hooks thread in the past as well.

[111]

Lots of stuff.

 

 

That's my two cents. I enjoy the community and the site.

 

If I might ask, you say that in the past you have been part of the 'negativity'. Why do you think you took part in such things? Also what caused you to make a conscious decision to stop doing it?

[Spethah]

Moderator Note:

These types of concerns are best shared through the report function and not posted in topic itself.

 

 

 

 

"I understand all the rules of the legit talk thread, and will obey them. If I am found to have broken any of the rules, I will refrain from posting in the thread for a week. I understand that the purpose of this thread is to try and maintain discussion in good faith"

 

Above, while it's acting as my forced disclaimer, is totally pointless. 

 

First, some people tend to post images and then discuss as a way of setting tone. Tone is hard to read in writing unless it's involve specific wording, but images don't have that issue. There are a few people that just post an image and leave it at that and it is annoying, but don't bunch the two together. 

 

Second, the rules can be viewed as backseat moderation and that's against forum rules. "If you do a 'bad', you are forced to not talk here for a week". You cannot force anyone to do without moderation approval. Now don't take this as me going "I WILL DO WHAT I WANT BEEECH", but rather think of it on the other side. You have no right to determine what people should and shouldn't do unless it's for a good purpose and sadly I'm just not seeing that good purpose. 

 

Third, directly or indirectly calling out on someone leads to viewful grouping...or in layman's terms "witch hunting". Don't be Tumblr, please. If you have an issue with a person or a group of people, speak with them privately on the matter and discuss in a relatively calm fashion. If you need assistance, speak to people you trust won't make a nuclear wreck of the situation because nothing is worse than two groups of people fighting at each other. Not only does it ruin the whole point of this community (apparently you're meant to be welcoming, watching fights and witch hunting is not welcoming) but that single rule is in violation of the forum guidelines anyway. 

 

If we were to add everything up, the disclaimer is basically saying "Yo fuck the rules that are in place.". Basically, not literally. We're talking a general image here, not what I or other people might think. Everyone has difference views, the only thing I can do is think of what the general plain-ass doo-dah of a human being would do or think.

 

Debates will always turn into fire fights if not mediated by someone, it's the natural human cycle of things. There's pretty much nothing you can do about it without making a fire fight. And now...

 

 

...I purposefully abuse these rules so I can disrupt discussion via not being able to post so I can promote my point of "gawd just talk privately". It's ironic no? But hey, I don't want mods on my fabulous butt cheeks. I follow forum rules first, then this.

 

 

[111]

 

 

Hello, please don't post in this thread for a week. You wouldn't go into a closed IC thread and post Gifs, would you? So please give the same respect towards this.

[111]

 

I feel we already know some people, and obviously these people know themselves. Some people just have a short fuse, or passionate on the speech, or whatever excuse. Ultimately, we can't really control what people will do, unless there's an according punishment because we aren't the ones typing on their keyboard.

 

What I do believe, is that constantly making threads about it won't help.

 

So is it your opinion that nothing can be done on the matter? Other than hope people realize on their own that they should be better?

 

I would argue with that. Some communities have made some strides in combating such behavior online. Just as an example, Riot Games has famously done a lot of work with the LoL community, which has made some significant strides. They talk about their efforts here.

 

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/191262/Video_Fixing_toxic_online_behavior_in_League_of_Legends.php

[K'nahli]

I'll await feedback on the matter of the topic's legitimacy from the other moderators but personally I see no issue with the topic itself, and so it will remain open.

 

 

However, just because you are of the impression that the topic would not be permitted does not give anyone the right to intentionally derail or criticise it's presence. Report the thread and be done with it. Making claims about what is allowed and what isn't is more in line with the term backseat moderating if I recall correctly - not making rules within the topic itself. This has been allowed in the past, even outside of RP threads, and I do not see any reason for it to be discouraged so long as it has purpose and meaning.

 

Until further notice, please keep things civil and on-topic and abide by the requested instructions.

 

 

 

Edit:

For clarity, the following two rules...

 

1) You can only talk about people DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY who have posted in this thread. Posting in this thread puts you under the purview of the legit talk thread.

 

3) You can say whatever you want that does not violate the overall rules of the website. If you think I'm being a fucking idiot for thinking how I do, I'd rather just hear it.

 

...do not condone flaming or any other form of negative discourse. Natalie has explicitly stated that no post should step outside of the general forum rules while also requesting that no-one be indirectly referenced to from outside of the topic. People who choose to post open themselves up for discussion which may reference particular behaviours. This is a grey area but so long as it is kept civil them the topic itself may be permitted.

 

Confirmation from other moderators will decide the outcome of the topic.

 

 

Regardless, the topic will be watched closely so compose your posts carefully even with all of that being said.

[111]

I think that the reaction to this thread proves that this thread has a purpose.

 

There are enough cynical feelings in this community, that the assumption by some is that such a thread /MUST/ be something negative. I don't think it has to be.

 

This threat is not for flame wars, it is not for causing drama, and it is not for e-points. It is to discuss issues that otherwise spiral out into flame wars and locked threads. It is my hope that the bans on callouts/macros/emptyposts and the 30 minute cool off period will let us do that.

 

It is something of an experiment, I'll admit. However so far it seems to be working reasonably well. How well it continues to work depends on how the community continues to interact with it.

[ProvaDiServo]

Personally, I just think all these mushy positive hug and love threads kinda need like their own little sub forum or something. I think it cheapenss what this forum is truly about at it's roots. People aren't that campy and friendly with each other. And while these threads sit at the surface you got the shit like tumblr going on and people making sneak disses at crews and FCs etc.

 

Balmung aint friendly all the time, I don't expect this place to be, cyber bullying and general douchery happens, and on a server full of people that are essentially in a big fanfiction playground words aint gonna be minced.

 

 

I can definitely say That my perspective comes from other forums.

[DoomsdayClock]

I understand all the rules of the legit talk thread, and will obey them. If I am found to have broken any of the rules, I will refrain from posting in the thread for a week. I understand that the purpose of this thread is to try and maintain discussion in good faith

 

It took me most of the day to decide whether or not I should actually post in this thread. For obvious or less obvious reasons that is. But the more I considered it, the more I reflected over the months I've spent watching the boards, and watching the in game interactions....which compelled me to feel I'd like to speak on the matter of my findings, for whatever worth there is to them.

 

I DO think a thread like this can help, as long as it's watched over and the same behaviors that we are so concerned about don't flare up here. Understanding and communication will always be key.

 

I do feel the community has changed since I first started in the game. I do see a very different energy about, and it's concerning for certain. There is a larger focus on negativity. There is a greater magnification on a lot of ideas that tend to keep the tone at a low. There is a large sense of entitlement, coupled with being offended, slighted, or otherwise wronged. More often than not a thread is derailed with venom, or excuses and reasons why things won't work, than solutions and questions on how things CAN. That said, these are things I can't solve. That no one individual or conversation can either.

 

For one there are alot of new faces all over the place. And a lot of frustration spilling out at concepts like the old heads being an issue, or not having time for them. Of walled off groups that they just can't get into...There is also the stigma of how much drama unfolds on other social media sites that also sweeps into the community. People are more ready now, to raise torches and swarm than I've ever seen before. I don't remember the prevalence of either when I began, but with the influx of new and returning players and the like spilling in, I think the tone is different now, and the new people coming in are taking that as just how things are here. That the expectation becomes a negative environment whether they want that or not, which honestly saddens me.

 

There has to be a general turning down of the volume level on the griping and anger. On the tension and bad things, and more of a push towards the positive that foster growth as an actual community. No member here will ever be able to build it on their own, and if we all exist together, we must coexist in a fashion that promotes growth.

It's all of our stories, all happening in tandem in the same setting at the same time. I for one have never blocked out a player for their character, their lore, or their Rp ability. Every interaction, every time I meet a new person it's adding another block to the foundation of what is my Rp world. In that regard I remain open to every chance, I cherish each opportunity and will always root for the folks who are having trouble fitting in. People can and will say whatever they please about me, but I've always made the point to involve as many people as I can in the storylines I do, and the sense of a living, organic world that grew out of that is something I find sorely lacking the current environment.

 

Every single person here who brings forth their creativity into a new life in our communal world is important. We ALL pay the price of admission to this setting each month, and we are all equal. That is the only way this can be, the only way it can work. The walls have to be acknowledge as perceived, or torn down if they do exist at all. We each have to be kind to ourselves, and more so to those around us.

That's all I've got. :tonberry:

[Hyrist]

 

I think this is an aftereffect of the general mood people are speaking of.

 

I personally think you should get yourself involved in any discussion in which you think you might have something useful to say, or you just want your opinion to be known.

 

As for the RP bit, that's a thing I struggle with myself. Its why I currently don't really have a wiki, because I feel like it kills some of the mystery when I RP with people. Its better that they are curious as a player and as a character.

 

Of course you have to give them something... or they won't be interested enough to start asking questions. I have a few idea for threads helping people drop mysterious details so that other people can meet as such. I think there was a plot hooks thread in the past as well.

 I will say that my FC leader and others tend to regard the RPC at arms length for its tendency to turn over itself over matters that ultimately do not pan out in actual RP or Gameplay. That in their ideal to avoid from, rather than deal with, catching RP issues such as Lorebending vs Loremongering and using this and similar issues as a means to judge or value one another.

 

See we in DE engage that positively. If someone comes up with an idea for a plot or character angle we feel bends the lore too far (Or conversely tries to stick too hard on the lore to the point of rubbing raw with others.) Well calmly talk with them about where we tend to draw the line on things and what's flexible, and then we work with and build on that. The majority of what we have is pretty low-key anyways as far as individual characters go.

 

I often don't understand why such acceptance can't be garnered here, if that is indeed part of the pressure going on. Well, perhaps I misspeak when I say I don't understand. I understand the difficulties in that ,but often I feel we forget ourselves too much when we wish to speak and justify our own opinion.  Diverse and even opposing opinions can and do coexist, but often when discussed in forums we feel as if one or the other opinion must prevail. For me I feel the effort is better spent bridging the gap and brainstorming more practical solutions such as "How can we get these two styles and standards to co-exist while maintaining a diverse and interlinked RP world?" That's often the harder, and also more worthwhile question to ask, rather than spending time poking holes in someone else's argument.

 

As far as RP details on Wiki. I'm the opposite to your perspective. I want to share ,but I have difficulty on the time it takes for me to write an artistic depiction in brief. I want someone to be able to read up on the history of the character, and then, doing so, become invested in that character and desire to participate in some manner. So long as they can separate their knowledge to their character's knowledge, then we're golden. Discovery through roleplay is great as well.

 

Again, my only problem is getting the time and appropriate diction down.

[Kellach Woods]

I understand all the rules of the legit talk thread, and will obey them. If I am found to have broken any of the rules, I will refrain from posting in the thread for a week. I understand that the purpose of this thread is to try and maintain discussion in good faith

 

The first question I will ask is:

What do you think of this thread? Do you agree with what I think has happened in the RPC community? Was the RPC community always this way?

 

What do I think of this thread? I think it'll be locked at around... page 6. Page 7 if we're lucky. Already, you could see people sniping at each other. I also do not believe that anyone using the term hugbox unironically is actually coming into a discussion with the intent of actually being fair to all positions. This isn't just for you Natalie because there's a couple of other peeps who I don't know if they've posted in this thread or no that've used it in the past. It's extremely reductive of what these threads do.

 

You see them as "hugboxes", I see 'em as necessary threads to counterbalance the other threads. I'll give you an example : The compliment thread - It's nice to be complimented, and I'd dare say there ain't a lot of that going on elsewhere. Sure we have the Kudos! thread, but how many go on there and take the time to actually give them out? Not a lot. That you have to give out a compliment to receive one is a good idea that forces people to actually give before they can receive. More people have interacted with me with that thread than they have from me actually posting good content.

 

Has the community changed? As someone who never really fully integrated in it (you might think differently - but post count only means I post a lot. If you take a look at any of the IC threads I have had I've not really interacted much because they're either journal threads or the Bulletin Board) I'm pretty sure nothing changed, just that the level of snark went extremely high because we all got used to the previous level of snark. Like we were actively looking for negative reactions and to piss people off just to prove our words have an effect. Then we turn around and disparage people for being affected by "mere words" when, let's be honest here, we SPECIFICALLY worded the posts for that purpose. So when people stopped reacting we started piling on more of it until hey everyone's passively-aggressively sniping at each other for shit that happened 3 threads past on the same subject.

 

But whatever you know, RPers gonna RP and I'd be hard pressed to find a community where that shit didn't happen.

[Verad]

I understand all the rules of the legit talk thread, and will obey them. If I am found to have broken any of the rules, I will refrain from posting in the thread for a week. I understand that the purpose of this thread is to try and maintain discussion in good faith

 

Nat, could you provide a clear and concrete example of what you consider to be "unsanitized" good-faith discussion? It doesn't have to be something from the RPC itself, but I'm hesitant to say we've fallen from some Platonic model of what the community "should be" without knowing what the "should be" was or if it ever existed at some point.

 

Regarding the rest of the topic, I have spoken in the past about why I have engaged in hostilities. I don't feel I need to go into that a second time. I can, however, explain why I avoid threads which appear to exist purely for the purpose of promoting positivity: many times, they feel false.

 

Kellach (and I name him only because I am still grappling with nesting quotations) explained why he prefers the Compliment thread over, say, the Kudos thread. I've reviewed both. I've posted in the Kudos thread, but never in the Compliment thread. The material in the Kudos thread feels more earned, more genuine, and usually comes from posting good content. Those in the compliment thread feel very superficial - in the past ten pages of that thread, the overwhelming theme of them, with some variation, is "X is a good person." I don't really need to hear that. I'd rather hear "X posted good content for X, Y, and Z reasons."

 

I agree with Kellach that they're necessary. I don't agree that they're necessary as a counterbalance. Rather, I think they're important because they highlight the fact that this is not a single community. Rather, it is multiple separate communities bashing against each other on the same website, confusing themselves into believing they are a contiguous group. I will likely never interact with the majority of the posters in the Compliments thread in roleplay, especially those who make a point of posting regularly, because we expect different things out of the website in terms of content and purpose.

 

So what you see, Nat, as a sanitizing and a splitting of the community when it comes to discussions, I see as people realizing that there isn't - can't be - a single community. People are still fighting to believe it is, hence "why have people gotten so mean/so relentlessly positive, why can't things go back to how they were." It's wiser to accept that it can't be so. Acknowledge the difference, recognize posters who fall outside your conception of what the website's community "ought to be," and steer clear.