Liberal police state

[Seriphyn]

This post

 

Apparently, this deserved a warning. Not just a "Hey don't do that again," a full-up warning. The post was not attacking any individual in particular, or even anyone in general for that matter. It was an amusing play on words. Sure, it might have been off-topic, but at most, people would have just read it, chortled, and carried on with the thread. It would really be scraping the barrel if someone somehow misconstrued that post as a personal attack.

 

I'm not sure I approve of this removal of agency, telling users that they are unable to control their own feelings. The approach is to censor anything that could potentially offend. And that post wasn't even offensive. It was the definition of innocuous banter.

 

Are we not allowed to be humorous in threads, if only to prevent the thread from being exceedingly intense and continuously morose? A lot of us are from Commonwealth countries, where we use humour to deal with borderline topics, to lighten the mood and put things in perspective! I could easily argue that this could be "culturally insensitive", if I so desired. But that's also a bunch of nonsense.

 

In any group that is born of a democratic society, those in charge must always have their decisions scrutinized and torn apart, with the expectation that those decisionmakers will justify themselves. That's all there is to this.

[111]

I don't think this is the place to air this, buddy.

 

I'd either talk to the mods personally, post in my thread, or use the thread already existing for rules discussions.

 

Edit: Calling it a 'police state' doesn't really start the conversation off on a good note.

[Kage]

I shall make an example of what I saw that post was like and now fully aware I will also take a warning for it because I think people need to see it for what it is.

 

OMGAWD IT'S THE POPO GAIZ WHO CAN HELP US WHEN IT'S THE POPO HURTING US

[Warren Castille]

Random off-topic images have a penchant for either derailing conversations outright or causing lots of posts discussing something off-topic. It was a play on words, sure, but beyond that there was no substance to the post. I imagine it would have been alright if there was a joke in a spoiler followed by on-topic discussion.

 

Kind of funny you saw moderation (that is transparent, because it states exactly why it got a warning) and immediately leapt to LIBERAL POLICE STATE though.

[Kellach Woods]

See I wanted to come here and discuss in good faith but then you titled your thread "liberal police state" like that was an actual thing that was happening, and in face of such hyperbole I'll just say that the post in question was against the rules and was punished accordingly. Welcome to life on a private website if you do not like it, you know what to do.

[Melkire]

If I were to lock this thread for hyperbole and dramatization, would you start lobbying for free speech? Or would you accept that this thread is entirely meant to stir up drama that we the staff have been trying to keep to a minimum recently?

 

We clarified on the rules. The rules are there to keep discussions constructive, to prevent folks from derailing discussions, to amplify signal and filter out noise. We're not against the posting of images, videos, GIFs, or the like. We're against their use as stand-alone commentary, since most such cases aren't constructive or thought-out and most such cases are trolling/baiting/derailing attempts anyway.

 

We're not against humor either. But we're supposedly roleplayers, and if roleplayers - people who write as a hobby - can't take two minutes out of their time to write up a few sentences of substance in addition to their chosen image/gif/video, then I suppose we should start expecting to see the Feels Bad Man sadfrog and the like to crop up a lot in the coming days, weeks, months, etc.

 

Post what you want, but post constructively if the aim of the thread is to have actual discussion. If you're issued a warning, then that warning was issued after careful consideration by the moderator in question and was NOT issued lightly. And if you received a PM instead of a warning alerting the user to how they had toed the line and could they please avoid such in the future... what? Is that grounds for complaint?

 

 

 

tl;dr: a post in "Describe your relationships with a GIF" is going to fundamentally differ from a post in "Examples of Keeper Lore", and the distinction between the two should be understood and respected.

 

 

EDIT: In the time it took me to write this up, people had responded to the OP.

[111]

I do think sending someone 1/10 of the way towards a permanent ban was a bit much, but I do think the image was disruptive.

 

As I've said though, I have an issue with the yearly cap, not the fact warnings are given out for such things.

[Seriphyn]

I shall make an example of what I saw that post was like and now fully aware I will also take a warning for it because I think people need to see it for what it is.

 

OMGAWD IT'S THE POPO GAIZ WHO CAN HELP US WHEN IT'S THE POPO HURTING US

 

There's a difference between posting a random image aimed at no one in particular, versus this, which is an indirect jab at what I am referring to.

[Warren Castille]

Off-topic shit-posting is still off-topic shitposting.

[Seriphyn]

If I were to lock this thread for hyperbole and dramatization, would you start lobbying for free speech? Or would you accept that this thread is entirely meant to stir up drama that we the staff have been trying to keep to a minimum recently?

 

If users can get called out on publicly via warnings for their decisions on this forums, then so can moderators, right? In big bold Mod Note, which is just as big and bold as flagrant hyperbole like 'Liberal Police State'.

[Dogberry]

See, normally, I'd be on your side here. I feel the mods have been heavy handed about image macros. The ban on them to me reads like a "no fun allowed" rule, when a more sensible rule simply saying "Please do not derail threads with memes. If you want to post a meme, make sure it is relevant" seems like the better option.

 

However, please, NEVER compare anything that happens on this site to actual politics. It's never equivalent. It's never thought-provoking. It's never clever.

[Gegenji]

I shall make an example of what I saw that post was like and now fully aware I will also take a warning for it because I think people need to see it for what it is.

 

OMGAWD IT'S THE POPO GAIZ WHO CAN HELP US WHEN IT'S THE POPO HURTING US

 

 

In all seriousness, I agree that a tangent thread about the forums being a "liberal police state" is a bit out of line for what happened. And this is coming from someone who likes to use his goofy pictures liberally, if you haven't seen the Friends of Momodi linkshell thread.

 

The key to "getting away" with the image posting (and I'm not even sure that's the proper wording for it), I feel, is to keep it on topic and/or include something relevant to the topic being discussed. At least, that's how I try to approach these things. Feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken in my understanding of the rules, mods.

[Dogberry]

In the thread about the party yesterday, Bryn posted a feels macro over after an emotional post I made. She was given a warning for this, even though I don't think anyone could argue that it was out of place or inappropriate for the thread, except for that it was technically in conflict with the letter of the forum rules.

 

I would just like to point that out. I made a sentimental post, she replied with a macro that was on point and relevent to the post I just made, and she was warned by mods to take it down.

[Sailor July]

See, normally, I'd be on your side here. I feel the mods have been heavy handed about image macros. The ban on them to me reads like a "no fun allowed" rule, when a more sensible rule simply saying "Please do not derail threads with memes. If you want to post a meme, make sure it is relevant" seems like the better option.

 

However, please, NEVER compare anything that happens on this site to actual politics. It's never equivalent. It's never thought-provoking. It's never clever.

 

1000% this. I agree with every single word of Dogberry's post. Please allow me to add this:

 

If you don't like how something is being done? Start a petition. I think memes should be allowed in threads, unless you're trying to derail them, just like what was mentioned above. I'm a meme person, and a wordy person. Anyway, I've seen several threads in off-topic so far that are drama bait (some about the mods, some aren't), when instead you can contact the mods and discuss what's going on with them, if it's a situation they can handle, you know? 

 

Also, I was about ready to leave RPC for a while, because of the negativity I saw, but then I realized - this will pass, and be the change you want to see in the community. With the right attitude and actions, there's a lot that can be done.

[Seriphyn]

See, normally, I'd be on your side here. I feel the mods have been heavy handed about image macros. The ban on them to me reads like a "no fun allowed" rule, when a more sensible rule simply saying "Please do not derail threads with memes. If you want to post a meme, make sure it is relevant" seems like the better option.

 

However, please, NEVER compare anything that happens on this site to actual politics. It's never equivalent. It's never thought-provoking. It's never clever.

 

Probably being a reactionary libertarian...guilty as charged. But the RPC is still part of the Internet, which has its own narrative regarding free speech and censorship.

 

I'm not going to expect people to agree with refusing to compartentalize a forum based on playing pretend and the politics of the Internet, but for me, people being able to post what they want falls into the wider topic of self-determination. It is a forum for pretend-players. But those pretend-players are real people, still.

 

And I give tumblr so much shit for taking things so seriously.

[shotgunbadger]

I came expecting a joke, got a legitimate cry of 'police state' and 'removal of agency' over funny pictures. Excellent.

 

Also can I just say I hate the whole 'I'm from EUROPE where we use humor blurgh blurgh blurgh' whenever something like this comes? Like, you're not a satirist being censored, you made a dumb post and mods said 'nah'. Wrapping yourself in a flag as if you're speaking truth to power is just kinda gross. It's like if when I get an infraction I start being all 'oh I'm sorry I'm AMERICAN where we fight and die for our freedoms and you're silencing my voice like King George tried to do and blaaaaaaaaaarp'. It's just such a gross thing to invoke over something so petty as Pretend Elves.

[Melkire]

See, normally, I'd be on your side here. I feel the mods have been heavy handed about image macros. The ban on them to me reads like a "no fun allowed" rule, when a more sensible rule simply saying "Please do not derail threads with memes. If you want to post a meme, make sure it is relevant" seems like the better option.

 

There's no ban on them.

 

•Spurious off-topic posts, including meme images and patent nonsense.

 

Also this, which we'll be amending soon since recent edge cases brought it to our attention (pending change in bold):

 

•Creating posts and/or topics whose purpose/title is sarcastic, belittling, or intentionally provocative in a negative manner (i.e., "baiting").

 

What that translates as is essentially "don't post image macros or 'memes' if your post is going to be off-topic, or dismissive, or might derail the thread." That doesn't say "don't post memes" or "don't be funny". That's simple enough to avoid anyway if your post contains more than just the meme in question.

 

If there's an issue in the language, I invite folks to work with us to fix said language. PMs. Multi-PM a la conference. Start a thread. Something. In the meantime, I'm going to take your suggestion, Dogberry, right now to the admin boards and see if that wording is something we want to use in an update to avoid confusion through clarity.

 

I sent someone a PM earlier today asking them to maybe just add a sentence or two to their post so it was more than just a GIF. I got a response that made me feel like I was being accused of stealing candy from a baby.

 

All of that said,

 

1. This isn't a democracy. This is a privately-run website that accepts donations as public contributions to otherwise private funding. If FreelanceWizard decided tomorrow to close this website down, it'd be gone. No, that's not happening (it's sad that I have to clarify this, otherwise some folks would jump to erroneous conclusions, but there you go).

 

2. We're being more than fair (and we're being transparent!) Which is ironic given that responses such as the OP effectively break THIS rule:

 

Section 3 - Discussion & Prejudiced Comments

 

•Attempting to undermine moderator actions/decisions.

 

 

 

 

EDIT:

 

Probably being a reactionary libertarian...guilty as charged. But the RPC is still part of the Internet, which has its own narrative regarding free speech and censorship.

 

[takes Moderator Hardhat off]

 

As a libertarian myself, I find this thread in poor taste. It comes off immediately as negative instead of addressing the issue in a positive constructive manner. For example, thread title "Can We Please Clarify This Rule?" followed by questions and suggestions would have been much, much better.

 

[puts Moderator Hardhat back on]

[Dogberry]

See, normally, I'd be on your side here. I feel the mods have been heavy handed about image macros. The ban on them to me reads like a "no fun allowed" rule, when a more sensible rule simply saying "Please do not derail threads with memes. If you want to post a meme, make sure it is relevant" seems like the better option.

 

However, please, NEVER compare anything that happens on this site to actual politics. It's never equivalent. It's never thought-provoking. It's never clever.

 

Probably being a reactionary libertarian...guilty as charged. But the RPC is still part of the Internet, which has its own narrative regarding free speech and censorship.

 

I'm not going to expect people to agree with refusing to compartentalize a forum based on playing pretend and the politics of the Internet, but for me, people being able to post what they want falls into the wider topic of self-determination. It is a forum for pretend-players. But those pretend-players are real people, still.

 

And I give tumblr so much shit for taking things so seriously.

 

If all you have is a hammer...

[Dogberry]

See, normally, I'd be on your side here. I feel the mods have been heavy handed about image macros. The ban on them to me reads like a "no fun allowed" rule, when a more sensible rule simply saying "Please do not derail threads with memes. If you want to post a meme, make sure it is relevant" seems like the better option.

 

There's no ban on them.

 

I think what people are experiencing here is a gap between the rules and the enforcement of the rules.

[Kellach Woods]

See, normally, I'd be on your side here. I feel the mods have been heavy handed about image macros. The ban on them to me reads like a "no fun allowed" rule, when a more sensible rule simply saying "Please do not derail threads with memes. If you want to post a meme, make sure it is relevant" seems like the better option.

 

However, please, NEVER compare anything that happens on this site to actual politics. It's never equivalent. It's never thought-provoking. It's never clever.

 

Probably being a reactionary libertarian...guilty as charged. But the RPC is still part of the Internet, which has its own narrative regarding free speech and censorship.

 

I'm not going to expect people to agree with refusing to compartentalize a forum based on playing pretend and the politics of the Internet, but for me, people being able to post what they want falls into the wider topic of self-determination. It is a forum for pretend-players. But those pretend-players are real people, still.

 

And I give tumblr so much shit for taking things so seriously.

 

If all you have is a hammer...

 

...all you need is a sickle for a new outlook on life?

 

Sorry, that's the tamest I can be.

[Kage]

Section 3 - Discussion & Prejudiced Comments

 

•Attempting to undermine moderator actions/decisions.

Appeals to moderator actions go to Freelancewizard by the by, from the user who was "punished" I assume.

[LiadansWhisper]

See, normally, I'd be on your side here. I feel the mods have been heavy handed about image macros. The ban on them to me reads like a "no fun allowed" rule, when a more sensible rule simply saying "Please do not derail threads with memes. If you want to post a meme, make sure it is relevant" seems like the better option.

 

There's no ban on them. 

 

While I don't agree with how this thread was started, and feel the title is prone to baiting, I have to say that the impression I've gotten is that they're absolutely banned.  When images appear (to me) to be "on-topic," they still get warnings.  So the impression I've gotten is no images, because you never know if you're going to get warned or not.

[Seriphyn]

This is not just a website, it's a community, right? Of real people who often invest real time and real emotion into said community.

 

I can't apologize for calling out those in charge of the community for their decisions. Accountability is part of responsibility, right?

 

I myself am not comfortable with the idea that I have to 'watch what I post' here. This place belongs to everyone.

[LiadansWhisper]

This is not just a website, it's a community, right? Of real people who often invest real time and real emotion into said community.

 

I can't apologize for calling out those in charge of the community for their decisions. Accountability is part of responsibility, right?

 

I myself am not comfortable with the idea that I have to 'watch what I post' here. This place belongs to everyone.

 

It's totally important to call out those in charge of a community when you feel their decisions are incorrect.  But, there's a difference between calling them out and insulting/baiting them.  One is productive, the other triggers an immediate defensive response.

 

I think you're right to speak up, but I do think you should change the title of the thread.  Just my $0.02.

[Hammersmith]

Huh.

 

It's almost like this is a private community with pre-set and posted and known rules and not a democracy.

 

Huh.

 

Fancy that.

 

Huh.