Do's and Don'ts

[Reth]

Newcomer to RPing Online here, with a bit of beginner's anxiety. With my limited experience I know there are some things that really irritate the common roleplayer, so before I get in character I've been reading up on the Etiquette provided in the help threads posted here, but I was looking for something a bit more personal from the community.

 

What are some of the warning signs that put you off a new characters? What are some of your pet peeves? What should I, as a new player, avoid doing if possible to become respected part of this community? Some examples might be, "Oh great, another female Miqo'te" or "Oh great, another character who was orphaned with a dark mysterious past".

 

And lastly, how do you personally find the balance between creating an interesting character without going full Mary Sue?

 

Thanks, and sorry if threads like this is one of your pet peeves.

[Chill Man]

nuHfVn_cfHU

 

Do what you want. It's your subscription, your RP. As long as you enjoy what you are doing and you aren't being disruptive to others, DO IT.

[Merri]

Do what you want. It's your subscription, your RP. As long as you enjoy what you are doing and you aren't being disruptive to others, DO IT.

 

This, really. Do what you enjoy. Some people will dig certain things, other people might hate them, but at the end of the day you should do something that you enjoy. As long as you're having fun, and enjoying the experience, that's all that really matters.

 

 

And lastly, how do you personally find the balance between creating an interesting character without going full Mary Sue?

 

 

Flaws. Flaws for days. Honestly, I find a character's flaws to be far, far more interesting than what they can do well. Doubly so when they're well layered and come out in ways that, to the unknowing, might seem to be benign actions or traits.

 

My character, for example, has a myriad of flaws that most people won't really be able to pick up on or know about unless they actually know the character to some degree. I have much more fun exploring those than anything related to his martial prowess. He's an adventurer as far as that's concerned, and that's that. His character flaws, on the other hand, dictate so many of his actions in ways most people probably aren't aware.

 

Characters who can strike a balance and bring out those flaws when and where appropriate are always very exciting to me. I like knowing there's some meat behind the character. Something to dig into. Something to make them seem real, and not some fantastical fairy tale hero.

 

An example might be that maybe you have a character who's incredibly brazen. Really cocky, full of himself. Thinks he's the best. In reality, however, he has a great deal of self-esteem issues that drive him to act out in that fashion. He wants people to perceive him in a light that he's unable to see himself in, so he puts on this facade to achieve it in hopes that he might be able to believe it himself. However, maybe people find him to actually be reliable because he puts himself out there. A positive out of his negative.

 

Layer your character as you build them. Don't just think about the positives, or the negatives. Think about both, and how they interact with each other.

[ShoggMommy]

 

And lastly, how do you personally find the balance between creating an interesting character without going full Mary Sue?

 

 

Flaws. Flaws for days. Honestly, I find a character's flaws to be far, far more interesting than what they can do well. Doubly so when they're well layered and come out in ways that, to the unknowing, might seem to be benign actions or traits.

 

My character, for example, has a myriad of flaws that most people won't really be able to pick up on or know about unless they actually know the character to some degree. I have much more fun exploring those than anything related to his martial prowess. He's an adventurer as far as that's concerned, and that's that. His character flaws, on the other hand, dictate so many of his actions in ways most people probably aren't aware.

 

Characters who can strike a balance and bring out those flaws when and where appropriate are always very exciting to me.

 

However, as you've said it needs a balance. Because if you have too many flaws you come off as an attention-seeking sue as well. So basically it comes to the Goldilocks equation. Not too hot, not too cold.

 

And like the others said, OP? Do what you find enjoyable aside from being obnoxious and irritating/trolling others.

[Dravus]

- Think critically. Self moderation is important when one considers that role-play is a group activity. 

 

- Don't immediately discount advice given to you even if you don't agree with it. After all, if multiple unaffiliated individuals are claiming that something isn't working out then there's a high chance that changes need to be made.

 

- Be consistent with your character. Don't make them an adventurer one minute only to then become a criminal the next. Let them evolve naturally!

 

- Don't be afraid to experiment with character concepts and ideas until you find something that works for you. What may seem like a good idea in theory may not be all that fun in practice.

 

- Communicate! It's the key to finding and keeping reliable contacts to interact with.

 

- Don't be afraid to cut away those who are overly negative. Role-play can become very dull if you're interacting with individuals who never have anything positive to say.

[Cliodhna Eoghan]

you don't have to (and generally aren't expected) to have every minor detail of your back-story hammered out first day you log in. be a bit vague and loose with it. it's much easier to change things about a character that's not quite working out if you haven't ic told 20 people you've got that trait or lack of. not saying you need to be all super mysterious either but think of it in terms of meeting someone at a party face to face; you won't tell them all your emotional scars, if you've killed someone, long lost siblings, if you're adopted ect ect, but you may mention you don't like peanut butter if the conversation steers that way. part of the fun of roleplaying is coming to those little details that make your character as you play. ;3

[Nako Vesh]

What are some of your pet peeves?

 

This is very subjective. What bothers someone might be cool to someone else. There's a number of things I see in RP that may make me roll my eyes, but I won't avoid people or put them down over it (in fact they're not even worth mentioning lol). Just keep those OOC lines of communication open. Mention you're new, and I think most people will be forgiving of any etiquette slip ups.

[Nebbs]

There is no one-way, so play what you like, you will always find someone of a similar view.

 

However, if you want a wider set of RP engagements then you have to adopt the lowest common denominator profile, at least the one you show out in open RP. Then, observe how others you are with are RPing and adapt to fit. 

 

Also develop an attitude of not caring so much what others consider do's and don'ts, unless you are directly RPing with them. If you are having fun and not harassing people.. go for it.

 

Also consider how much you are compromising your style to fit in with their style and how much are they likewise compromising theirs. For light engagements this is fine, but if you go on for any length or depth the differences become issues.

 

For a more lengthy piece on RP I'd suggest [The Role Play Handbook]

[C'kayah Polaali]

And lastly, how do you personally find the balance between creating an interesting character without going full Mary Sue?

 

Imagine your character was actually someone else's character. Would you want to RP with them, or would you roll your eyes and go "Christ, no!"?

 

That's how you find the balance.

[Lilia Lia]

The people who say "do what you want" seem to be misunderstanding what you are asking, I think. I get the impression you just want to know what the RP climate is like and what things are generally frowned upon. There are certainly things that are considered bad manners in RP generally speaking, so "do what you want" is a little overly simplistic and people are likely to furrow their brow at you if you do distasteful things on the grounds of "hey, it's my subscription that I'm paying for, I can play a character however I want!"

 

It would be a good rule if RP was a one-player experience, but since it's not, it's good to observe a few general guidelines.

 

As a new player, here's a few ground rules: you are not the Warrior of Light, you are not the Slayer of Primals. You are not an existing anime or video game character transplanted into the FF world from another dimension. Any time you write your character as being "the only one" of something, stop yourself and think about it.

 

For developing a character, my main pet peeve is characters who don't seem to have come from the game world. Take a little time to talk to the NPCs in the towns and get a feel for what the world is like. Read the story while you're playing, even the side quests (maybe especially the side quests) because those will help you understand the world. Making a lore-based character is a very big "do" in my opinion. Your character should feel like they were born and grew up in the FFXIV world. This takes a bit of research, but it can be fun research because a lot of it is in-game.

 

Examples of cliches that bother me? I'll give you a few at the risk of upsetting some of the people in the community.

 

Well, the orphan thing is a good start, generally characters with no parents or dubious parentage strike me as a scapegoat for "it's less work than coming up with a real childhood." There ought to be people in your past, and it can be fun to come up with them. It doesn't even have to be much, but have a hometown, have parents, have a past that continues to be relevant to your character.

 

Something that bothers me personally is when people don't RP their race. I think I'm in the minority on this one, though. There's not much explicitly stated race lore, but there's a lot that you can derive from the story, NPC dialogue, and common sense. Anyone whose race is more than just a cosmetic thing, and particularly people who add in a few things that are "typical of their race," always get brownie points with me. The huge racial diversity of the FFXIV world is just part of the fantasy experience to me and I like thinking of the races as discrete and internally consistent.

 

Going along with this, a big annoyance for me is IC fantasia, especially when it comes with big detailed justifications. The reason this annoys me is because it undermines the significance of race, "I was a Roegadyn but now I'm an Elezen woman because a wizard cast a spell on me" etc etc. It also tends to be something that doesn't naturally grow out of the character but is a reflection of an OOC desire to arbitrarily change their appearance because they no longer want to have kitty ears. A lesser evil here is retconning, in my opinion, but I generally don't like when people use fantasia on their characters.

 

As for creating an interesting character without being a Mary Sue, I think that stems from basing a character in their past and their future motivations. Flaws can make your character interesting, and they can also add a lot of levity to RP if you play them up at your own character's expense. You run the risk of creating conflict, but as a friend of mine once said, "conflict is the center of good RP."

 

Glad for the question and I hope it helps you understand the community a little better. Welcome!

[Hammersmith]

Lot of good info in this thread.  Use it.

 

One I didn't see mentioned, and a personal thing that twists my ear and pisses me off more often than not:

 

Make sure your char has a reason to interact, get involved, and step out.

 

Mr. Broods McDarksalot in the corner isn't going to get into any fun if they never step into and interact with people.  Sad shy girl isn't going to have anything happen if they never leave their table and never talk.  If either of them do, it's a thin soup of a story since they'll go back to Dark and/or Quiet waiting for the next plot point to come to them instead of getting involved in them.

 

IN short: You're RPing in a group environment.  Have reasons, twists, flaws, merits, and other personality things that make sure you interact with the group.

 

Otherwise you're background colour and making everyone else do the work of bringing RP to you, instead of making a collective story.

 

People who get mad about never getting RP and then mention their char is a super secret ninja who never reveals their location or speaks to people outside of their extensive NPC organization that no one knows about kind of piss me off.

[Addison]

These are all really good points. As another person who is new to the community I just wanted to say thanks for the thread and thanks for the answers.

[111]

Lot of good info in this thread.  Use it.

 

One I didn't see mentioned, and a personal thing that twists my ear and pisses me off more often than not:

 

Make sure your char has a reason to interact, get involved, and step out.

 

Mr. Broods McDarksalot in the corner isn't going to get into any fun if they never step into and interact with people.  Sad shy girl isn't going to have anything happen if they never leave their table and never talk.  If either of them do, it's a thin soup of a story since they'll go back to Dark and/or Quiet waiting for the next plot point to come to them instead of getting involved in them.

 

IN short: You're RPing in a group environment.  Have reasons, twists, flaws, merits, and other personality things that make sure you interact with the group.

 

Otherwise you're background colour and making everyone else do the work of bringing RP to you, instead of making a collective story.

 

People who get mad about never getting RP and then mention their char is a super secret ninja who never reveals their location or speaks to people outside of their extensive NPC organization that no one knows about kind of piss me off.

 

Very true.

 

Art imitates life. You can make a shy or non-outgoing character but just like real life they're going to spend most of their time alone.

 

You kind of have to make your character outgoing in at least some way, or have a hook you can bother people about. Either that or you have to already know a group of people ready to integrate hidey mcshy pants, your miqo'te rogue.

 

A good way to start is to just have some issue or problem your character wants to solve, and it requires other people to help them with. For example, Evangeline wanted to overthrow the government of Ul'dah. Not a realistic goal, but it gave her a reason to walk up to strangers and thrust revolutionary pamphlets into their hands.

[Mercurias]

What are some of the warning signs that put you off a new characters?

 

As far as "warning signs" go, the main one I think of is a character immediately showing genuine romantic interest in mine right off the bat. Not flirting or flirty behavior, but deep, longing glances and acting like a soul mate or something. I'm a little jittery about romance RP in general because of drama that can follow, so if your character immediately tries to initiate that before they know one another, that's not going to get a good reaction from me.

 

Another thing is walking up and instantly attempting to metagame completing an action successfully on my character. If you say "Jim-bob walks up to where Soren is sitting at the bar, grabs him by the hair, and slams his face into the bar repeatedly until his body goes slack and he stops breathing" then you're on my blacklist for godmoding. Always give your actions a chance to fail unless you talk to the other player in advance and know what they'd like.

 

What are some of your pet peeves?

 

I personally don't like it when someone turns an interaction into a "Who could win in a fight?" dialogue or begins making random accusations in order to start a fight. There are a lot of ways to get a reaction out of a room without instantly turning on the aggression, especially because the kind of characters who start this tend to be the ones who like to play physically dominating sorts who are just out to beat someone down.

 

I also prefer the erp/makeout RP be taken to tells, please.

 

As a personal note, and others are -absolutely and justifiably- not going to get an argument if they disagree with me on this (so put the knives down), I tend not to like a lot of paragraph posting in busy or fast-paced RP. They take a long time to compose and a lot of folks are speeding through conversations. In forum RP I like the longer paragraph format for rich and vivid writing, but in-game I follow the maxim "Brevity is wit". It helps communication flows a little faster, and big text walls don't hammer chat boxes and make it harder to find posts. 

 

What should I, as a new player, avoid doing if possible to become respected part of this community?

 

To be frank, you shouldn't be aiming to becoming a venerable part of the community. Just be a -part- of the community. 99% of the 'cool' or 'popular' or 'respected' posters here don't seem to be doing anything for name recognition. They're just trying to contribute and make the community as a whole better. Sounsy is a lore god, for example. nobody asked Sounsy to start it. S/he just started gathering lore and posting to help people out.

 

Just participate and try to make things better. Respect will come based on what you do. 

 

And personally, I'll respect you a lot more if you stay clear of forum drama. >.>

 

And lastly, how do you personally find the balance between creating an interesting character without going full Mary Sue?

 

A Mary Sue character is really kind of an idealized character who might be an author insert and can carry implications of wish fulfilment. 

 

In other words, a Mary Sue character tends to be often close to perfect and gathers people who love them.

 

To me? Perfect is boring.

 

My main character is a catboy with the absolute worst personal skills imaginable. Half of the good things he does end up being soured by the words that come out of his mouth, and he almost prefers it that way because he's afraid of getting too close to people. It someone put duct tape over his mouth, he would actually probably end up being a heck of a lot more likeable as a person. What makes him interesting, at least to me, is that struggle between obviously caring about people's well being and acting like a giant dick.

 

The end result can sort of be seen by what Sato's recently deceased (RIP Ellion) FC leader wrote about him in his will"

 

 "M'sato, you are probably the biggest asshole to have ever graced Eorzean soil when you were torn from the womb of that mother that had to have cussed the gods you came to be. Don't ever change. Well... maybe change your attitude. But you have good qualities, and if the existence of this will is any testament worth its salt at all, it is that you have a follow-through no one else can match.

 

 

The important thing isn't how perfect your character is. It's who your character is. How they act, what they struggle with, what makes them hurt, what makes them cry, what makes them laugh or turns them on and how they cope with all of it as well as how they touch the lives of those around them.

 

Perfect is limiting. Make enemies, then make up with them. Screw up. Fall down and have trouble getting up again. Lose when everyone expects you to win, and win when everyone expects you to lose. 

 

Have fun with it. It's your character.

[Reth]

Thanks for the great responses all, both for the words of encouragement and the honest answers, it has given me a lot to think about and the talk about flaws helped me flesh out a whole new depth to my character's backstory that I have in mind.

 

I was toying with the idea of having a Miqo'te male, who was raised by Hyur (for reasons I'll save as my character's secret for now), who has potential to explore some self identity development. His adoptive parents are alive and well, but he was left behind as a babe by his genetic parents for a very miqo'te-culture specific reason, so I'm going to try my best to be accurate to his miqo'te genetics and lore while embracing some awkwardly adopted Hyur mannerisms, including a Hyur-given name. I'm hoping I can pull this off without appearing cringe-worthy, and as per all of your advice, subtlety. Beyond his backstory, I think I will let his personality develop naturally as I meet new people.

 

This thread has given me a lot of motivation, so I will hopefully see some of you in game on Balmung soon. I've leveled myself up high enough to wear an in-character appropriate outfit.

 

I like how this discussion has developed, so any more input is welcome.

[Lilia Lia]

Thanks for the great responses all, both for the words of encouragement and the honest answers, it has given me a lot to think about and the talk about flaws helped me flesh out a whole new depth to my character's backstory that I have in mind.

 

I was toying with the idea of having a Miqo'te male, who was raised by Hyur (for reasons I'll save as my character's secret for now), who has potential to explore some self identity development. His adoptive parents are alive and well, but he was left behind as a babe by his genetic parents for a very miqo'te-culture specific reason, so I'm going to try my best to be accurate to his miqo'te genetics and lore while embracing some awkwardly adopted Hyur mannerisms, including a Hyur-given name. I'm hoping I can pull this off without appearing cringe-worthy, and as per all of your advice, subtlety. Beyond his backstory, I think I will let his personality develop naturally as I meet new people.

 

This thread has given me a lot of motivation, so I will hopefully see some of you in game on Balmung soon. I've leveled myself up high enough to wear an in-character appropriate outfit.

 

I like how this discussion has developed, so any more input is welcome.

 

At the risk of upsetting you (since you're at this early stage), I should point out that "miqo'te adopted by hyur parents" is actually really common in the RP community for some bizarre reason.  It seems to be a way of escaping the practical difficulty of wanting to play a miqo'te character while paying some minimal lipservice to the lore limitations of their race (and maybe also of naming them Steve Johnson instead of whatever weird lore name).  But seriously, "miqo'te adopted by hyur parents" are like, everywhere... so that might raise some eyebrows.

 

Though in defense of the "adopted by Hyurs" trope, we do have at least one Hyur in the MSQ lore who adopted a lalafell.

 

I'm not trying to rain on your parade, I just know that I'd want someone to bring it to my attention if I was developing a concept and it ended up being really commonplace.  The natural inclination in developing your character is to give them distinctive qualities that deepen them or make them interesting, but when the distinctive traits you give them are overplayed, then that takes a bit of the intrigue out of it.

 

Anyways, I feel like I'm saying too much at this point. Do whatever your heart tells you to.

 

If you want to create a miqo'te and avoid cliches, then this thread might be a good read:

 

http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=5887

[Reth]

Lilia Lia, (Sorry I'm having some real problems with the formatting of this forum, quotes are working really strangely for me)

 

This is -exactly- the kind of thing I wanted to know before I made a fool out of myself, and I can easily adjust my character accordingly - since that factor of the character was not overly important and I can work out something else.

 

Thank you very much for your honesty.

[Lilia Lia]

Lilia Lia, (Sorry I'm having some real problems with the formatting of this forum, quotes are working really strangely for me)

 

This is -exactly- the kind of thing I wanted to know before I made a fool out of myself, and I can easily adjust my character accordingly - since that factor of the character was not overly important and I can work out something else.

 

Thank you very much for your honesty.

 

My pleasure.  I'm glad it was well received and helpful.

[V'aleera]

Given the examples we have in lore, I don't see cross race adoption as being terribly problematic or exceptionally uncommon.

[Melkire]

Given the examples we have in lore, I don't see cross race adoption as being terribly problematic or exceptionally uncommon.

 

There are also quite a few noticeable adoptions present in the Gold Saucer. Off the top of my head, there's at least one case of a Roegadyn father adopting Hyuran children.

[OttoVann]

DO NOT get overly concerned about Mary Sue status. I have seen people, myself included, twist themselves into pieces over this. The RPC has a deeply ingrained obsession with no one being too terribly special or interesting - and theres nothing wrong with it - but you can go too far with it as well. Do not forget the RPC is by no means a large, or majority population for Balmung. What is said here can not be assumed to just apply to the server at large, not even close. Don't worry about fitting in here nearly as much as writing up shit you and your rp partners enjoy.

 

Don't be afraid to go off the beaten path, don't be afraid to ignore lore either if it makes for way more interesting RP. This games lore is objectively bad, and sometimes tossing it do to your own thing or do bend something makes things so much more enjoyable. You learn by doing, so go ahead and start rping and make your mistakes. I make mistakes everyday, even an hour ago I did with a writing project I'm working on with Ottos IC wives. Learn by doing.

[Merri]

Adoption isn't at all a stretch in Eorzea. Their views on a lot of subjects are actually very modern. Adoption isn't taboo. Gay relationships aren't frowned upon. Inter-racial relationships are, for the most part, accepted (there are some exceptions to this). As has been stated, it's also very evident in-game that adoption happens quite often.

 

I personally think going the Hyur route is absolutely fine. Even if it's been done before, that doesn't mean you can't, or you shouldn't if you actually want to. Make it your own, give it a unique spin. Do what you want to do, ultimately. There are some things that are taboo in the community, but honestly, something like that is so benign that I have a hard time believing people would actually give you grief for it.

 

No matter what type of character you make, there's going to be some person that doesn't like it, or doesn't agree with it, but the best you can do is agree to disagree with those people and simply avoid roleplaying with them. It doesn't have to be a bad experience. However, you shouldn't let those people dictate where you take your character or what you do with them, because for as many people that might not like an idea, there could be just as many that do like it.

 

As Otto has mentioned, the people here on the RPC are also just a small fraction of what exists in-game. From my experience, most people won't really care about the specifics of your character so long as you play them well, appropriately, and the experience is enjoyable. There's some obvious exceptions, but those are, well, obvious. (The "I'm a demon fairy princess who's the best at everything" kind of obvious.)

 

Another thing to keep in mind is your character will grow. They'll change, either by your own hand or events that unfold in-character. The character I play now is honestly pretty different from the man he was when I started playing him five years ago. Backstory only goes so far with your character, and getting hung up on perfecting it can stunt their growth. It should simply be there as a reference to why they might act the way they do, and not something that dictates 100% of their actions 100% of the time. :>

[Lilia Lia]

Just to clarify, I wasn't saying "miqo'te adopted by hyurs" was implausible from a lore perspective, I was just saying it's a bit tired.  Having a destroyed hometown and swearing revenge isn't implausible either.

[OttoVann]

Otto adopted Ridley, his orphaned/exiled 18 year old battle-secretary. After she worked for him for a long time they got close in a father/daughter sort of way so he eventually asked her if she would like to be legally adopted and keep her name but become an heiress with all the rights, privileges, and authorities that would be implied from joining a Monetarist's family. She's got a signet ring and can speak in Otto's place should he need it and stuff.

 

 

Its way different from what everyone else is talking about adoption though because Ridley is now 20, and Otto is only 30. So yeah...definitely unusual but it was and is a good story. She's also a midlander and Otto is highlander, so it's staying within the same 'race'.

 

 

It was good, close, and endearing RP. Adoption is sweet. I guess I'm biased when I don't see how it's tired. Do a lot of people have adoption backgrounds?

[Dravus]

Just to clarify, I wasn't saying "miqo'te adopted by hyurs" was implausible from a lore perspective, I was just saying it's a bit tired.  Having a destroyed hometown and swearing revenge isn't implausible either.

 

Mm. I don't think it's a bad thing to desire more role-players to take their character's race into greater consideration. It's a little disheartening when one's favoured race(s) end up being portrayed in the majority of cases as little more than humans with different shaped ears - which is essentially what they become when all ties with their culture/racial traits are cut away.

 

It becomes even more potentially problematic when it becomes the norm rather than the exception to the rule - but I've since made my peace with it since quite a few role-players are keen to take it a step further by guzzling down fantasia to have their character transform into a completely different race. Which in turn lets them embrace all the perks and none of the drawbacks - as will likely be the case with the soon to be influx of Au Ra.

 

Then there's the 'controversial' aspect of miqo'te life that many claim to find off-putting. I see a lot of people complaining that they loathe the Nunh/Tia system and how the females are expected to breed but oddly enough I don't see the same complaints aimed at the matriarchal themes associated with Keepers or the fact that a large portion of non-tribal female miqo'te are portrayed as courtesans/wenches...