Questions on crime in Ul'dah and other stuff

[WorstRPerEver]

I've been trying to flesh out my character's history and profile a little more, and ran into a few things that I've been meaning to ask about...

 

What's the law enforcement in Ul'dah/Thanalan like? I'm under the impression that the Brass Blades are sort of "in charge" of it, from what I've seen ingame.

 

I have an idea for my character that he's wanted by the Brass Blades for something minor - like pilfering food from shops or emptying tip jars and running like hell. The thing is, I'm not too sure how crime is handled in Eorzea. I'm not sure if it's a "EVERY CRIME IS PUNISHABLE BY DEATH" kind of world, or if crime is handled in the way it was in the Middle Ages, or if it's even handled the same way that it is in modern times.

 

How long has Little Ala Mhigo been around, and might there be any Miqo'te (Seeker, particularly) living near it?

 

Also, how easy is it to travel between the city states? I'm not sure if a penniless errand boy like Jad would be able to use the Aetherite to teleport about or buy passage on an airship.

[Unnamed Mercenary]

I'll try to answer these to the best of my ability and in the order they appear.

 

1. There are 3 forms of "law enforcement" in Ul'dah proper. They each kinda handle different things, and likely all have goals of their own.

• The Sultansworn, who guard the palace and Sultana (and related needs)
  
• The Brass Blades, who are hired mercenaries by the Syndicate
  
• The Immortal Flames, who are basically the army
  

 

2. Ala Mhigo fell to the Garleans about 20 years ago. (15 before 1.0) Little Ala Mhigo was founded by refugees who had nowhere else to go. BIG BOLDY TEXT BECAUSE THIS COMES UP A LOT. You DO NOT have to be a Highlander Hyur to be Ala Mhigan! We have Hellsguard Roegadyn and Miqo'te Seeker of the Sun named NPCs in both 1.0 and 2.0 who are born/raised in Ala Mhigo. Sounsyy can probably link a fancy video or NPC dialogue as proof. I'm at work :

 

3. Most cities have a few methods of travel.

• Airships
  
• Chocobo Porters
  
• Walking (take this with a grain of salt, because I'm sure the maps are supposed to be MUCH BIGGER than what we see in game.
  
• Aetherites: While these used to be "free", costing only anima for use, the Calamity destroyed the old Aetherial network and new aetherites had to be installed. Due to the costs, they now collect a fee for teleportation. As this basically ranges from 50 to 600 gil, it's up to you to decide if your character could afford such travel!
  

[111]

The punishment for crimes seems to vary depending on who you get caught by and what you did.

 

The Flames tend to be rather lenient, and the Brass Blades rather harsh.

 

There also seems to be a formalized system for trials and justice, as well as magistrates. There are illusions to a higher law that everyone has to uphold.

 

Ul'dah has a few famous prisons they keep people in, and I'm sure they also execute people, however I view the primary punishment as fines and forced labor. I play a Brass Blade as my alt, and thats usually what he dishes out.

 

Ul'dah is very money oriented, so it makes sense to me that they'd even try to turn a profit off of law enforcement (Much like the USA <_< >_> )

[Melkire]

Brass Blades are basically the cops.

Immortal Flames are basically the army.

Sultansworn are a strange cross of FBI and Secret Service.

[111]

Brass Blades are basically the cops.

Immortal Flames are basically the army.

Sultansworn are a strange cross of FBI and Secret Service.

 

The Brass Blades are a bit more complicated because they're basically a private army paid to police the city.

 

In other parts of Thanalan and Eorzea they're closer to combat troops.

 

Paying a mercenary combat force to police a large city works about as well as you can imagine (badly).

[WorstRPerEver]

Neat, that clears up the character origin issue I had! 8-)

 

Sounds like the Brass Blades would be the most likely be the ones to deal with thieves in the city. Would it be too far-fetched or unbelievable for someone to be wanted by the Blades, but hiding or otherwise trying to avoid them?

 

Basically I'm not sure how efficient or dedicated they'd be in regards to hunting down relatively unimportant criminals. Would it be the kind of thing where my character wouldn't be able to be anywhere near Ul'dah or Thanalan, or would he only get in trouble if someone recognized him? And if he did get arrested, what might happen?

 

(I'm not good at describing what's going on in my head, sorry if my posts are confusing ._.')

[Chris Ganale]

If it's just petty thievery, I don't imagine they'd care unless he happened to wander in front of them.

[Manari]

And it should be noted that there are several noteworthy cases in the official lore, NPC dialog, and cutscenes that show just how rotten, selfish, and even corrupt the Brass Blades can really be.

 

I RP an alt that is a male Highlander that used to be a member of the Brass Blades that left them after giving a superior minor injuries from trying to force him to do something he didn't want to do. Now he really hates them.

[Unnamed Mercenary]

Neat, that clears up the character origin issue I had! 8-)

 

Sounds like the Brass Blades would be the most likely be the ones to deal with thieves in the city. Would it be too far-fetched or unbelievable for someone to be wanted by the Blades, but hiding or otherwise trying to avoid them?

 

Basically I'm not sure how efficient or dedicated they'd be in regards to hunting down relatively unimportant criminals. Would it be the kind of thing where my character wouldn't be able to be anywhere near Ul'dah or Thanalan, or would he only get in trouble if someone recognized him? And if he did get arrested, what might happen?

 

(I'm not good at describing what's going on in my head, sorry if my posts are confusing ._.')

 

There are many people wanted by the Blades. Definitely plausible.

 

The thing with the Brass Blades is....they like money. You could probably pay them off with enough gil. Or maybe they just won't go after your character because it's not worth the gil per effort? Fun stuff to play around with.

 

Basically, you've got some leeway. If you want your character to be super-wanted in Ul'dah, that's an option that's available. It's also possible your character's bribed a few higher-ranking Blades to pretend your a nobody.

 

--

 

edit/side note: While you'll be fr more likely to find people RPing corrupt Brass Blades here, don't assume all of them are bad! Many are still quite friendly and there are a few who really believe they are helping. The check out Horizon on the Thanalan map for some ideas. (If you started in Ul'dah, you'll encounter them as you quest around).

[111]

Neat, that clears up the character origin issue I had! 8-)

 

Sounds like the Brass Blades would be the most likely be the ones to deal with thieves in the city. Would it be too far-fetched or unbelievable for someone to be wanted by the Blades, but hiding or otherwise trying to avoid them?

 

Basically I'm not sure how efficient or dedicated they'd be in regards to hunting down relatively unimportant criminals. Would it be the kind of thing where my character wouldn't be able to be anywhere near Ul'dah or Thanalan, or would he only get in trouble if someone recognized him? And if he did get arrested, what might happen?

 

(I'm not good at describing what's going on in my head, sorry if my posts are confusing ._.')

 

If you ever need some for a scene, let me know!

 

I have a (very) small Brass Blade linkshell.

[Melkire]

Likewise re: Brass Blades needed for scenes, I've got one (just need to grind to 50 for the outfit grrrrrr).

 

And it should be noted that there are several noteworthy cases in the official lore, NPC dialog, and cutscenes that show just how rotten, selfish, and even corrupt the Brass Blades can really be.

 

I RP an alt that is a male Highlander that used to be a member of the Brass Blades that left them after giving a superior minor injuries from trying to force him to do something he didn't want to do. Now he really hates them.

 

And it should also be noted that there are several cases, particularly in the Ul'dah starter quests, of hardworking, loyal, "for the good of the people" Brass Blades who are not rotten, selfish, or corrupt. Fufulupa and Leofric are notable in this regard.

[111]

Likewise re: Brass Blades needed for scenes, I've got one (just need to grind to 50 for the outfit grrrrrr).

 

And it should be noted that there are several noteworthy cases in the official lore, NPC dialog, and cutscenes that show just how rotten, selfish, and even corrupt the Brass Blades can really be.

 

I RP an alt that is a male Highlander that used to be a member of the Brass Blades that left them after giving a superior minor injuries from trying to force him to do something he didn't want to do. Now he really hates them.

 

And it should also be noted that there are several cases, particularly in the Ul'dah starter quests, of hardworking, loyal, "for the good of the people" Brass Blades who are not rotten, selfish, or corrupt. Fufulupa and Leofric are notable in this regard.

 

Also, the master of the most oiled lever in thanalan.

 

The myth, the man, the legend.

 

Captain Longhaft.

[Manari]

 

Also, the master of the most oiled lever in thanalan.

 

The myth, the man, the legend.

 

Captain Longhaft.

 

 

Truly, a man after my alt's own heart. Captain Longhaft is an inspiration to young men the realm over.

[Hammersmith]

Ul"dah's brass blades tend to work like the Roman Vigiles, a paramilitary force maintained by private interests.  Much like the Vigiles, who were privately owned slaves who expanded into hired and privately funded police and firefighters, the Brass blades are privately operated watchmen.

 

They look for petty thievery, and other lesser crimes like public drunkeness and brawls.  Larger things like sedition, murder, and other "high" crimes are probably handled by the Immortal Flames who are "official" and as such are required to represent and protect the city for more high profile problems.  

 

Meanwhile the Brass Blades keep the rich rich, the poor where they can, and Ul'dah and it's various outposts from burning down.  They're not true public servants, but they do the day to day from guard duty at outposts to pick pocket chasing in Thanalan. 

 

However, given Ul'dah's status, they often get called to handle things that are a larger and more immediate and mercurial threat to civic order.  Riots, uprisings, disaster control (Like say: Fire), are also probably handled by the Brass Blades as WELL as the Immortal Flames.

 

As for courts, There's famous prisoners in Ul'Dah, but I don't suspect petty theives and the like are actually locked up.  To draw from the Romans and Greeks: Prisons were a waste of real estate and resources.  Long term imprisonment cost money, and LOTS of it, and there's no private prison network in Ul'Dah like there is in the US to print money from that. (Yet).  Which means most people are probably turned to hard labor, given harsh fines, or told to fight in the bloodsands for redemption when they break the law and get caught (Key word, get caught).  There's evidence of courts for this, but it also means that smaller more civic disputes are handled privately until they blow up large enough to attract the Blade's attention and to drag the parties involved to a magistrate.  This probably means the bad blood involved has caused some sort of larger civic unrest or disaster, in which case, everyone that's getting hauled in is probably getting hosed because the court probably wants it's pound of flesh as well now. (Discounting the fine ul'dah traditions of bribery and favours owed, which is probably in full force in the legal system)

[WorstRPerEver]

Or maybe they just won't go after your character because it's not worth the gil per effort? Fun stuff to play around with.

That's what I had in mind! Though it wouldn't stop Jad from fearing the Brass Blades and hiding from them. Better safe than sorry, after all.

 

Thanks for the help and such, everyone!

 

A scene with some Blades would be awesome, but I'm not sure how to go about it. Would I need to plan how things would go? I'm unfamiliar with the RP scene here and I don't know what people expect in terms of scenes or RP. Still trying to acclimate...

[Erik Mynhier]

And it should also be noted that there are several cases, particularly in the Ul'dah starter quests, of hardworking, loyal, "for the good of the people" Brass Blades who are not rotten, selfish, or corrupt. Fufulupa and Leofric are notable in this regard.

 

You will also note there are Blade npcs placed in Ul'dah and Mor Dhona post-2.5 that (without spoiling anything) have dialog that denotes them as "good cops".

[111]

Ul"dah's brass blades tend to work like the Roman Vigiles, a paramilitary force maintained by private interests.  Much like the Vigiles, who were privately owned slaves who expanded into hired and privately funded police and firefighters, the Brass blades are privately operated watchmen.

 

They look for petty thievery, and other lesser crimes like public drunkeness and brawls.  Larger things like sedition, murder, and other "high" crimes are probably handled by the Immortal Flames who are "official" and as such are required to represent and protect the city for more high profile problems.  

 

Meanwhile the Brass Blades keep the rich rich, the poor where they can, and Ul'dah and it's various outposts from burning down.  They're not true public servants, but they do the day to day from guard duty at outposts to pick pocket chasing in Thanalan. 

 

However, given Ul'dah's status, they often get called to handle things that are a larger and more immediate and mercurial threat to civic order.  Riots, uprisings, disaster control (Like say: Fire), are also probably handled by the Brass Blades as WELL as the Immortal Flames.

 

As for courts, There's famous prisoners in Ul'Dah, but I don't suspect petty theives and the like are actually locked up.  To draw from the Romans and Greeks: Prisons were a waste of real estate and resources.  Long term imprisonment cost money, and LOTS of it, and there's no private prison network in Ul'Dah like there is in the US to print money from that. (Yet).  Which means most people are probably turned to hard labor, given harsh fines, or told to fight in the bloodsands for redemption when they break the law and get caught (Key word, get caught).  There's evidence of courts for this, but it also means that smaller more civic disputes are handled privately until they blow up large enough to attract the Blade's attention and to drag the parties involved to a magistrate.  This probably means the bad blood involved has caused some sort of larger civic unrest or disaster, in which case, everyone that's getting hauled in is probably getting hosed because the court probably wants it's pound of flesh as well now. (Discounting the fine ul'dah traditions of bribery and favours owed, which is probably in full force in the legal system)

 

The Brass Blades are an international Mercenary army as well.

 

They're far more than just a sort of paramilitary unit. I would argue them more as a military unit that is doing policing, rather than a policing unit that has grown large.

 

They can be seen all over Eorzea, something you don't see of the similar yellowjackets or wood wailers. Ul'dah is just one of their many clients... lolorito is making bank.

[Hammersmith]

Ul"dah's brass blades tend to work like the Roman Vigiles, a paramilitary force maintained by private interests.  Much like the Vigiles, who were privately owned slaves who expanded into hired and privately funded police and firefighters, the Brass blades are privately operated watchmen.

 

They look for petty thievery, and other lesser crimes like public drunkeness and brawls.  Larger things like sedition, murder, and other "high" crimes are probably handled by the Immortal Flames who are "official" and as such are required to represent and protect the city for more high profile problems.  

 

Meanwhile the Brass Blades keep the rich rich, the poor where they can, and Ul'dah and it's various outposts from burning down.  They're not true public servants, but they do the day to day from guard duty at outposts to pick pocket chasing in Thanalan. 

 

However, given Ul'dah's status, they often get called to handle things that are a larger and more immediate and mercurial threat to civic order.  Riots, uprisings, disaster control (Like say: Fire), are also probably handled by the Brass Blades as WELL as the Immortal Flames.

 

As for courts, There's famous prisoners in Ul'Dah, but I don't suspect petty theives and the like are actually locked up.  To draw from the Romans and Greeks: Prisons were a waste of real estate and resources.  Long term imprisonment cost money, and LOTS of it, and there's no private prison network in Ul'Dah like there is in the US to print money from that. (Yet).  Which means most people are probably turned to hard labor, given harsh fines, or told to fight in the bloodsands for redemption when they break the law and get caught (Key word, get caught).  There's evidence of courts for this, but it also means that smaller more civic disputes are handled privately until they blow up large enough to attract the Blade's attention and to drag the parties involved to a magistrate.  This probably means the bad blood involved has caused some sort of larger civic unrest or disaster, in which case, everyone that's getting hauled in is probably getting hosed because the court probably wants it's pound of flesh as well now. (Discounting the fine ul'dah traditions of bribery and favours owed, which is probably in full force in the legal system)

 

The Brass Blades are an international Mercenary army as well.

 

They're far more than just a sort of paramilitary unit. I would argue them more as a military unit that is doing policing, rather than a policing unit that has grown large.

 

They can be seen all over Eorzea, something you don't see of the similar yellowjackets or wood wailers. Ul'dah is just one of their many clients... lolorito is making bank.

 

Paramilitary is anything that isn't officially under a nation state's armed forces.  I know the term tends to describe vigilates and millitia these days but it technically applies to anyone raising an army that isn't part and parcel and controlled directly by a nation's leadership.

 

Unless a Syndicate member's personal military holdings can/are counted as part of Ul'Dah's overall structure (Judging by how the Blades don't operate just in Ul'Dah and work directly for other nations interest), they're technically just a very fancy (And very powerful) paramilitary unit.

 

Which holds up what we know about them, and keeps the Vigiles comparison pretty apt. They're a professional unit, just not one that represents Ul'Dah when things go wrong (or right) in their operations.(Though, obviously, Ul'Dah can hold them accountable for the multiple instances of bribery, corruption, and lazyness that several side quests demonstrate the blades take/engage in during the course of their contracted duties TO the state.)

[Coatleque]

Us Sultansworn, on the other hand, don't care about the gil. We'll just crack anyone's head who misbehaves in front of us.

[111]

Ul"dah's brass blades tend to work like the Roman Vigiles, a paramilitary force maintained by private interests.  Much like the Vigiles, who were privately owned slaves who expanded into hired and privately funded police and firefighters, the Brass blades are privately operated watchmen.

 

They look for petty thievery, and other lesser crimes like public drunkeness and brawls.  Larger things like sedition, murder, and other "high" crimes are probably handled by the Immortal Flames who are "official" and as such are required to represent and protect the city for more high profile problems.  

 

Meanwhile the Brass Blades keep the rich rich, the poor where they can, and Ul'dah and it's various outposts from burning down.  They're not true public servants, but they do the day to day from guard duty at outposts to pick pocket chasing in Thanalan. 

 

However, given Ul'dah's status, they often get called to handle things that are a larger and more immediate and mercurial threat to civic order.  Riots, uprisings, disaster control (Like say: Fire), are also probably handled by the Brass Blades as WELL as the Immortal Flames.

 

As for courts, There's famous prisoners in Ul'Dah, but I don't suspect petty theives and the like are actually locked up.  To draw from the Romans and Greeks: Prisons were a waste of real estate and resources.  Long term imprisonment cost money, and LOTS of it, and there's no private prison network in Ul'Dah like there is in the US to print money from that. (Yet).  Which means most people are probably turned to hard labor, given harsh fines, or told to fight in the bloodsands for redemption when they break the law and get caught (Key word, get caught).  There's evidence of courts for this, but it also means that smaller more civic disputes are handled privately until they blow up large enough to attract the Blade's attention and to drag the parties involved to a magistrate.  This probably means the bad blood involved has caused some sort of larger civic unrest or disaster, in which case, everyone that's getting hauled in is probably getting hosed because the court probably wants it's pound of flesh as well now. (Discounting the fine ul'dah traditions of bribery and favours owed, which is probably in full force in the legal system)

 

The Brass Blades are an international Mercenary army as well.

 

They're far more than just a sort of paramilitary unit. I would argue them more as a military unit that is doing policing, rather than a policing unit that has grown large.

 

They can be seen all over Eorzea, something you don't see of the similar yellowjackets or wood wailers. Ul'dah is just one of their many clients... lolorito is making bank.

 

Paramilitary is anything that isn't officially under a nation state's armed forces.  I know the term tends to describe vigilates and millitia these days but it technically applies to anyone raising an army that isn't part and parcel and controlled directly by a nation's leadership.

 

Unless a Syndicate member's personal military holdings can/are counted as part of Ul'Dah's overall structure (Judging by how the Blades don't operate just in Ul'Dah and work directly for other nations interest), they're technically just a very fancy (And very powerful) paramilitary unit.

 

Which holds up what we know about them, and keeps the Vigiles comparison pretty apt. They're a professional unit, just not one that represents Ul'Dah when things go wrong (or right) in their operations.(Though, obviously, Ul'Dah can hold them accountable for the multiple instances of bribery, corruption, and lazyness that several side quests demonstrate the blades take/engage in during the course of their contracted duties TO the state.)

 

I don't really think Paramilitary is a good word to use in premodern times. I don't think they're counted as paramilitary if they're organized outside the state. If a mercenary army has its own commanders, funds, and independent goals outside of any one specific state, it's not really a paramilitary force. On the wikipedia page for example you see lots of examples, but mercenaries are not one.

 

The Landsknechts a paramilitary force? The Swiss Pikemen? German Hussars? Though I admit this is a bit out of scope of this topic.

[Seriphyn]

I don't really think Paramilitary is a good word to use in premodern times. I don't think they're counted as paramilitary if they're organized outside the state. If a mercenary army has its own commanders, funds, and independent goals outside of any one specific state, it's not really a paramilitary force. On the wikipedia page for example you see lots of examples, but mercenaries are not one.

 

The Landsknechts a paramilitary force? The Swiss Pikemen? German Hussars? Though I admit this is a bit out of scope of this topic.

 

Yes, people are using a lot of anachronistic terms in this thread. Historically there were no such distinctions. The world of Eorzea does not have the very formal administrative structure that modern nation-states have.

 

• The Sultansworn are royal guard/knightly order with fealty to the Ul'dahn monarch.
  
• The Immortal Flames are a standing army with a formal structure answerable to the Flame General.
  
• The Brass Blades are a mercenary order paid by Ul'dahn interests to keep the peace.
  

 

That is it, really! There is no 'military', 'paramilitary', or 'law enforcement' in the contemporary sense.

[Hammersmith]

I don't really think Paramilitary is a good word to use in premodern times. I don't think they're counted as paramilitary if they're organized outside the state. If a mercenary army has its own commanders, funds, and independent goals outside of any one specific state, it's not really a paramilitary force. On the wikipedia page for example you see lots of examples, but mercenaries are not one.

 

The Landsknechts a paramilitary force? The Swiss Pikemen? German Hussars? Though I admit this is a bit out of scope of this topic.

 

Yes, people are using a lot of anachronistic terms in this thread. Historically there were no such distinctions. The world of Eorzea does not have the very formal administrative structure that modern nation-states have.

 

• The Sultansworn are royal guard/knightly order with fealty to the Ul'dahn monarch.
  
• The Immortal Flames are a standing army with a formal structure answerable to the Flame General.
  
• The Brass Blades are a mercenary order paid by Ul'dahn interests to keep the peace.
  

 

That is it, really! There is no 'military', 'paramilitary', or 'law enforcement' in the contemporary sense.

 

Yeah, this was why I kept comparing them to the Roman civic stuff, because they had a similar setup of "Royal guard" "Army" "Those mooks who keep the city from burning down when someone puts too much wine in the fountains"

[Michikyou]

I've found that most people ignore the fact there even is a form of policing in city states - just because there is no character representation. Im very surprised its done but then again - I guess its all up to personal preference. I've given up multiple times playing a Brass Blade just due to the fact that many adventurers just theatened to beat the living snot out of him for trying to enforce the law.

 

"I'm sorry, but kidnapping is Illeal, and the discussion of such is questionable to your alibi."

*gets attacked in quicksand*

"I'll call for backup!"

[111]

I've found that most people ignore the fact there even is a form of policing in city states - just because there is no character representation. Im very surprised its done but then again - I guess its all up to personal preference. I've given up multiple times playing a Brass Blade just due to the fact that many adventurers just theatened to beat the living snot out of him for trying to enforce the law.

 

"I'm sorry, but kidnapping is Illeal, and the discussion of such is questionable to your alibi."

*gets attacked in quicksand*

"I'll call for backup!"

 

I have found the trick is to talk to them OOC, and make sure they're cool with the idea of them getting hauled off or chased away.

 

If they want to beat up my brass blade just to be cool I stay away, unless we have some sort of prior arrangement.

[Melkire]

I've found that most people ignore the fact there even is a form of policing in city states - just because there is no character representation. Im very surprised its done but then again - I guess its all up to personal preference. I've given up multiple times playing a Brass Blade just due to the fact that many adventurers just theatened to beat the living snot out of him for trying to enforce the law.

 

"I'm sorry, but kidnapping is Illeal, and the discussion of such is questionable to your alibi."

*gets attacked in quicksand*

"I'll call for backup!"

 

Had something similar happen several weeks ago. Highlander male took offense to my little lalafell lass' banter (she may have insulted the size of his... ahem) and hoisted her up by the hair. Cue a challenge to a duel outside the Quicksand. Cue /random rolls and OoC communication in tells and it made for a very fun spectacle. Had a crowd of maybe a dozen watching? Was certainly entertaining.

 

But yes, roleplaying authority can be troublesome at times. We've had a number of topics on that alone over the past few months, years, etc.