[split] Garlemald's Presence in Othard and Relation to the Roman Empire

[V'aleera]

1.0 had some quests about Garlean indoctrination of conquered nations.

[K'nahli]

Speaking more toward the Xaela under Garlean rule, my personal speculation is that the Othard steppes and mountains are likely "controlled" by the Garlean Empire in the same way the American West was "controlled" by the federal government: they said they controlled it, they had fancy papers saying they controlled it, and most foreign nations respected their control of it... but they really had no actual control over most of it.

 

This was pretty much my belief too when a friend brought up the issue of Garlean control over Othard to me today.

[111]

1.0 had some quests about Garlean indoctrination of conquered nations.

 

Ah, any details? Like they go to a school and learn that Garlemald is the best?

 

Or they get zapped by a mind control gun?

[V'aleera]

There's a video somewhere around here with the cutscenes. Basically the children get taken away and taught to be good citizens, or something to that effect.

[111]

There's a video somewhere around here with the cutscenes. Basically the children get taken away and taught to be good citizens, or something to that effect.

 

Ah, so soft indoctrination, the carrot, not the stick.

 

The Razings are the stick.

 

Doesn't strike me as particularly nefarious. It's not just beastmen that can summon primals, educating people that primals are bad, and that they shouldn't pray to them or summon them. It's hard to get adults to change, but they at least get the next generation.

[LiadansWhisper]

 

 

 

I don't think they're really indoctrinated. I'm not sure where that is ever stated by someone who is not biased. I'm sure plenty of people sign up for adventure, pay, and a cool uniform and laser gun.

 

If I recall no Garlean we speak to seems particularly indoctrinated, besides believing firmly in the cause of the Empire. There is a moogle mail quest with a Garlean deserter, and he never talks about being brainwashed (to my memory).

 

Believe it's from the...I forget the number, but Nael's legion.  They were actively brainwashing/indoctrinating their recruits, including children.

[LiadansWhisper]

There's a video somewhere around here with the cutscenes. Basically the children get taken away and taught to be good citizens, or something to that effect.

 

Ah, so soft indoctrination, the carrot, not the stick.

 

The Razings are the stick.

 

Doesn't strike me as particularly nefarious. It's not just beastmen that can summon primals, educating people that primals are bad, and that they shouldn't pray to them or summon them. It's hard to get adults to change, but they at least get the next generation.

 

Eh.  Ehhhhh.

 

It's really analogous to the "schools" that Native American children were forcibly sent to.

 

I think we can agree those were not okay.

[111]

Well I mean, how else do you get them to stop summoning Primals?

 

You either kill them or change them.

[Kamome]

In terms of historical example of course I feel the Roman slavery system is analogous, but for me a closer similarity would actually be the Japanese occupation of Korea and Taiwan in the first half of 20th century. For those not familiar with this period of Asian history many Koreans and Taiwanese took Japanese names, fought in war, worked in mines and became absorbed into Japanese culture. 

 

It is a very fascinating period in history (my college master thesis hahaha) maybe it will intrigue you too in terms of Garlemald connection:

 

https://books.google.com/books?id=JNNoCPffEssC&pg=PA98&lpg=PA98&dq=japanese+doka+assimilation+policy&source=bl&ots=RSQdbVt6B7&sig=CuUzbNz2EY4ykXF-ar63G_OPMew&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCQQ6AEwA2oVChMIkeCzhIrKxgIVQp2ICh2IDQ8W#v=onepage&q=japanese%20doka%20assimilation%20policy&f=false

 

As you can see the French also had a similar policy of cultural assimilation that you can see to this day in Africa and in Vietnam before the revolution.

 

It always reminded me of this reading the lore on Doma because Japanese cultural assimilation program was called "Doka"

[V'aleera]

Well I mean, how else do you get them to stop summoning Primals?

 

You either kill them or change them.

Then again, neither of those options seem to have been working terribly well.

[111]

Well I mean, how else do you get them to stop summoning Primals?

 

You either kill them or change them.

Then again, neither of those options seem to have been working terribly well.

 

Well, clearly more magitech super weapons are the answer then.

 

It always works out so well for them.

[allgivenover]

There's a video somewhere around here with the cutscenes. Basically the children get taken away and taught to be good citizens, or something to that effect.

 

Ah, so soft indoctrination, the carrot, not the stick.

 

The Razings are the stick.

 

Doesn't strike me as particularly nefarious. It's not just beastmen that can summon primals, educating people that primals are bad, and that they shouldn't pray to them or summon them. It's hard to get adults to change, but they at least get the next generation.

 

Eh.  Ehhhhh.

 

It's really analogous to the "schools" that Native American children were forcibly sent to.

 

I think we can agree those were not okay.

 

That's hardly enough reason to revolt! /s

[LiadansWhisper]

Well I mean, how else do you get them to stop summoning Primals?

 

You either kill them or change them.

 

I'm pretty sure that the Hyur, Elezen, etc, weren't the ones summoning Primals.

 

The Garleans just exterminate Beast Tribes outright.

[111]

Well I mean, how else do you get them to stop summoning Primals?

 

You either kill them or change them.

 

I'm pretty sure that the Hyur, Elezen, etc, weren't the ones summoning Primals.

 

The Garleans just exterminate Beast Tribes outright.

 

They can and they have though. The Beast tribes just seem to be more likely to do it.

[LiadansWhisper]

 

 

They can and they have though. The Beast tribes just seem to be more likely to do it.

 

As far as we know, they didn't in Ala Mhigo, yet that is where you find the children being brainwashed and the conscripted recruits being forced to kill a person every day to numb them to the horror of killing.

 

I mean, I know you really like the Garlean Empire, but let's be reasonable.  :dodgy:

[111]

 

 

They can and they have though. The Beast tribes just seem to be more likely to do it.

 

As far as we know, they didn't in Ala Mhigo, yet that is where you find the children being brainwashed and the conscripted recruits being forced to kill a person every day to numb them to the horror of killing.

 

I mean, I know you really like the Garlean Empire, but let's be reasonable.  :dodgy:

 

Where is it shown they have to kill a person a day?

 

Also remember, apparently primals are literally destroying the world. Any price, regardless of how high, is cheap compared to world destruction.

[LiadansWhisper]

 

 

 

Where is it shown they have to kill a person a day?

 

Also remember, apparently primals are literally destroying the world. Any price, regardless of how high, is cheap compared to world destruction.

 

It's in the 1.0 quest.  If we're lucky, Sounsyy can swoop in with a link, but there is information from those quests about how conscripted recruits were brainwashed and forced to kill a person every day to numb them to the horror of killing.

 

Also, sorry, the "ends justify the means" doesn't really fly with me.    You cannot justify atrocities as far as I'm concerned.  Just isn't gonna work.

 

Edited to Add: Not to mention the fact that the Garleans practiced genocide against the Beast Tribes actually caused them to summon Primals with increasing desperation in some cases, whereas if they'd been left alone they might never have done so.

[Melkire]

It's in the 1.0 quest.  If we're lucky, Sounsyy can swoop in with a link, but there is information from those quests about how conscripted recruits were brainwashed and forced to kill a person every day to numb them to the horror of killing.

 

If I recall, this procedure was specific to the legion of Nael Van Darnus, as opposed to every other legion of the Empire. Was similar to decimation, if I recall correctly. Someone else will have to source that for you.

[Unnamed Mercenary]

It's in the 1.0 quest.  If we're lucky, Sounsyy can swoop in with a link, but there is information from those quests about how conscripted recruits were brainwashed and forced to kill a person every day to numb them to the horror of killing.

 

If I recall, this procedure was specific to the legion of Nael Van Darnus, as opposed to every other legion of the Empire. Was similar to decimation, if I recall correctly. Someone else will have to source that for you.

 

^This. ONLY Nael Van Darnus had such a rule. I remember Gaius being rather friendly in 1.0. He wanted Eorzea to join willingly. Nael decided if Garlemald couldn't have Eorzea, he'd drop a fucking moon on it instead.

[Chris Ganale]

That guy in the postmoogle quest? The Garlean deserter that lives in Wineport jungles? That guy is fucked in the head, and you don't get that assed up just from seeing some awful shit. That kind of mind-fuckery, to the point where he acts like his brains are essentially scrambled eggs, comes from actual mind-fuckery.

[111]

That guy in the postmoogle quest? The Garlean deserter that lives in Wineport jungles? That guy is fucked in the head, and you don't get that assed up just from seeing some awful shit. That kind of mind-fuckery, to the point where he acts like his brains are essentially scrambled eggs, comes from actual mind-fuckery.

 

As a war veteran, and friend to many who went through far worse than I did, you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

At all.

 

Edit: Just to be clear, I don't mean that as an insult. War can fundamentally break people's minds, to the point of showing the same symptoms as physical trauma. If you've never known anyone who has had to go through it though, you wouldn't know. (People are quick to thank veterans, but less quick to remember them after they do so, or fund the care they need)

[LiadansWhisper]

It's in the 1.0 quest.  If we're lucky, Sounsyy can swoop in with a link, but there is information from those quests about how conscripted recruits were brainwashed and forced to kill a person every day to numb them to the horror of killing.

 

If I recall, this procedure was specific to the legion of Nael Van Darnus, as opposed to every other legion of the Empire. Was similar to decimation, if I recall correctly. Someone else will have to source that for you.

 

^This. ONLY Nael Van Darnus had such a rule. I remember Gaius being rather friendly in 1.0. He wanted Eorzea to join willingly. Nael decided if Garlemald couldn't have Eorzea, he'd drop a fucking moon on it instead.

 

Yeah I thought I'd mentioned that earlier.  That it may have been specific to JUST his legion, but I wasn't entirely sure.

 

On the other hand, apparently Gaius got on the crazy train right after, but that could just be poor writing.  After the WHM questline, I'm willing to allow for that.

[Unnamed Mercenary]

It's in the 1.0 quest.  If we're lucky, Sounsyy can swoop in with a link, but there is information from those quests about how conscripted recruits were brainwashed and forced to kill a person every day to numb them to the horror of killing.

 

If I recall, this procedure was specific to the legion of Nael Van Darnus, as opposed to every other legion of the Empire. Was similar to decimation, if I recall correctly. Someone else will have to source that for you.

 

^This. ONLY Nael Van Darnus had such a rule. I remember Gaius being rather friendly in 1.0. He wanted Eorzea to join willingly. Nael decided if Garlemald couldn't have Eorzea, he'd drop a fucking moon on it instead.

 

Yeah I thought I'd mentioned that earlier.  That it may have been specific to JUST his legion, but I wasn't entirely sure.

 

On the other hand, apparently Gaius got on the crazy train right after, but that could just be poor writing.  After the WHM questline, I'm willing to allow for that.

 

Gaius fell to Ascian temptation. He was pretty reasonable until Ultima Weapon. ...so bad 2.0 writing got him killed.

[Tiergan]

I missed a buttload of conversation while traveling. i haven't managed to read the entirety of this thread yet as I'm not feeling too hot, but I guess what I was trying to solve in all of my lore-digging was WHY the Xaela would suddenly be leaving enmasse now if they were already controlled by the Garleans for some time now.

 

I thought perhaps my two Au Ra left after hearing of the Doman escape to Eorzea, but if everything's pretty much business as usual in Othard except for the fact that there's Garlean soldiers wandering around -- I couldn't really figure out why my Au Ra would ever leave.

 

One of them is a poop merchant so I could just say he deicded to expand the poop-selling business into Eorzea, but the other is just some young scrappy kid from the Olkund Tribe who probably wouldn't have left his tribe unless there were some pretty tough circumstances going on.

[TheLastCandle]

The lore really does seem to imply that, aside from Doma itself, it really is kind of "business as usual" in Othard. Like Tiergan, finding a reason for my Xaela alt to leave his ancestral lands is something I've struggled with greatly. He's of the Iriq tribe, being the son of a Borlaaq warrioress who, according to clan traditions, left him to be taken in by the Iriq. I thought of working in a sort of side-story in which he's searching for his mother, but on second thought I decided that in a clan culture where this sort of thing is common practice, there would probably be little reason for him to do so.

 

Ultimately, I have yet to RP this character openly, so I may change him to one of the clans more likely to travel to Eorzea. Like the Kha or the decimated Hotgo.