How "Easy" Is Magic?

[Sigil.9054]

So, out of context, these are my questions:

 

- What are the factors in learning magic?

- Does it require study?

- Does it require a sort of "attunement" with the magic of the world?

- What kind of components are involved? IE, Vocal, Somatic, Material, Focus, etc.

- Does magic draw energy of some kind from the user?

- Does it vary depending on the kind of magic? If yes, how so?

 

More contextually...

 

My character is currently an archer, and I eventually plan to have them start studying magic (what kind will depend on roleplay). She's very intelligent, and learns things quick. What other obstacles would she have to deal with, and how long would it take for her to learn how to, say, heal a wound or toss a fireball?

 

----------------------------------------------------

 

I noted someone else had a question further on in the thread:

 

I have another question on how other people interpenetrate aether potency. It is flat out said at several points in the MSQ that Eorzea is a land of a lot of trapped aether and quite aetherically rich.

 

Does anyone have any information or theories on how drawing on it are on the other continents? Would disciplines that draw aether from the environment rather than from inside oneself be more difficult to do?

[Melkire]

- What are the factors in learning magic?

 

Depends on the discipline.

 

Generally speaking, conjurers have to learn to commune with nature, thaumaturges have to learn how to manipulate and externalize their own aether, and arcanists give form to their spells through geometries.

 

 

- Does it require study?

 

Yes. Although one may be naturally inclined and/or talented, study is the means by which most disciplines of magic in FFXIV learn and improve upon their control and their capabilities.

 

 

- Does it require a sort of "attunement" with the magic of the world?

 

Conjury and White Magic do. Black Magic does to an extent, as they fuel their spells by ripping aether from the land. Arcanima and the ancient arts on which it was based do not, to my understanding, require any sort of "attunement", although the circumstances that make one capable of summoning faeries or egis do.

 

 

- What kind of components are involved? IE, Vocal, Somatic, Material, Focus, etc.

 

Given the nature of Silence through Final Fantasy, it's implied although never outright stated that some form of vocal incantation might be necessary. That said, this is more a game mechanic than narrative, and nothing in the lore definitively indicates that one has to vocalize to cast.

 

There are, however, some materials required for specific disciplines. Thaumaturges typically construct their rods from bone, using gems for their foci. Conjurers often carry wands or staves, though it's never explicitly said to be required. Arcanists carry quill and parchment with which to ink and thereby depict their geometries.

 

There are workarounds in most of these cases, but these are the standards by which most disciplines find it easiest to cast.

 

 

- Does magic draw energy of some kind from the user?

- Does it vary depending on the kind of magic? If yes, how so?

 

Thaumaturgy and arcanima draw upon the user's own aether, which arguably doubles as their life energy. Conjury borrows the energy from the land, Black Magic steals the energy from the land, and White Magic draws upon an inexplicable source of energy known as Succor that very few have access to.

 

 

EDIT:

 

- What other obstacles would she have to deal with, and how long would it take for her to learn how to, say, heal a wound or toss a fireball?

 

Depends on what sort of obstacles you'd like to weave into her story. As for length of time, that'd depend on two factors:

 

1. How naturally inclined or gifted or talented your character ends up being in a particular discipline.

2. Whether or not they have access to a soul stone. Soul stones are gems that are imprinted with the memories and life experiences of those they once belonged to. They serve as cheat sheets to learning new arts and disciplines, since you can peek into what they knew and/or attune with the soul stone and thereby speed your progress and improvement.

[Aaron]

I see using magic as akin to a workout.

 

The more pushups you do, the stronger you become.

 

The more you attempt to cast a fireball, the quicker you get the thing going.

[LadyRochester]

So, out of context, these are my questions:

 

- What are the factors in learning magic?  

- Does it require study?

- Does it require a sort of "attunement" with the magic of the world?

- What kind of components are involved? IE, Vocal, Somatic, Material, Focus, etc.

- Does magic draw energy of some kind from the user?

- Does it vary depending on the kind of magic?  If yes, how so?

 

More contextually...

 

My character is currently an archer, and I eventually plan to have them start studying magic (what kind will depend on roleplay).  She's very intelligent, and learns things quick.  What other obstacles would she have to deal with, and how long would it take for her to learn how to, say, heal a wound or toss a fireball?

 

1. There are multiple factors, but perhaps the most important ones are: 

- Aetherial environment: Aether is the energy people in Eorzea use to shape and form magic. It varies on intensity depending on the area you are in. Every living being has aether within them, some more intense than others, so there's a lot of variables in there.

- Character's aetherial pool: This is more about how much energy your character has to spend in the magical arts. This can be your mana pool, but t may extend to their life force under extreme situations.

- Character's education: Obviously, a character is bound to be a better mage if they were educated to be one, this, however, does not mean they can't be self-taught. 

 

2. Does it require study? Magic weaving is more of a skill, so the more you practice/study it, the more you are bound to show talent in the area. A character cannot pick up a tome and three days later be like "LOOK, I CAN SUMMON A CARBUNCLE!" At least not under a realistic time-frame. Basic spells should take a few weeks. if your character is gifted, maybe you can tighten it t a week, but I'd be careful with that.

 

3. Does it require a sort of "attunement" with the magic of the world? Yes and no. If you ant to practice, say, conjury, your character must become attuned to the elementals. But other forms of magic like thaumaturgy and arcamina require your character to at least be able to keep their aether in check. Astrologians must "attune" to constellations. Magic is very volatile in nature, so trying to cast a spell with no prior knowledge out of nowhere is bound to be messy at best.

 

4. What kind of components are involved? IE, Vocal, Somatic, Material, Focus, etc. The lore is extremely flexible regarding this, so I cannot answer it. Some people rp as making it vocal, others as material/somatic/etc. It's up to the roleplayer.

 

5&6. Does magic draw energy of some kind from the user? Does it vary depending on the kind of magic?  If yes, how so? From the official schools of magic (this excludes headcanon and other forms of magic we see in the MSQ, but we can't use OOC.) Magic DOES require to be powered by aether. Arcamina and Thaumaturgy take energy from within the caster (so they directly take from the character's mana pool.) while conjurer's "borrow" energy from the elementals. In other words, the source of energy for Arcamina and Thaumatrgy is "internal", while for Conjury it's "external." 

 

7. What other obstacles would she have to deal with, and how long would it take for her to learn how to, say, heal a wound or toss a fireball? For a relatively small wound/fireball? If your character is REALLY gifted, probably a couple of weeks, you could maybe tighten it to a week. Maaaayyybe. Something a little bigger would probably take at least a month (again, if they are very gifted). If you want to go even BIGGER, then I'd say years. HOWEVER, you could bypass this on a rare occasion if, say, for example, your character is going through an extremely intense situation and the aetherial conditions happen to be just right. Even then, something will probably go wrong.

 

 

 

Magic is very flexible when it comes to lore here, so don't be scared to experient with headcanon, just make sure you know the basic laws of aether and you're golden! Do know that just because magic is flexible does not give someone the right to godmod or be OP. Magic is powerful, but keep it within a mortal's capacity.

 

 

Sorry for the terrible grammar/spelling. Kind of wrote this in a hurry. I have VERY extended research logs regarding magic lore in the game, if you're interested in seeing them, just shoot me a message! I might actually post them in the forums.

[Kaniko Niko]

I've really grown to enjoy Black Mage and thaumaturgy in general.

 

Thaumaturgy is a form of arcane manipulation that allows the practitioner to unleash (his/her) will as deadly manifestations of primal power. The origin of our art can be found in the cumbersome magicks of our ancestors - subsequently focused and refined through their use in the funereal rites of the Order of Nald'thal. Though once used exclusively for the preparation of the dead' date=' these incantations of destruction soon found new purpose on the battlefield. Hm hm hm... "Death," of course, is still very much the central focus of the discipline.[/quote']

 

While the official game data and the above state that thaumaturgy comes from within, it's implied (at least to me) that our inner aether provides the catalyst to start the flow and we start "pushing and pulling" aether from our surroundings in and out of our physical forms.

 

Astral Fire and Umbral Ice.

 

Just, uh... Don't abuse it. Unless you really, really hate your internal organs.

[Roda]

I've really grown to enjoy Black Mage and thaumaturgy in general.

 

Thaumaturgy is a form of arcane manipulation that allows the practitioner to unleash (his/her) will as deadly manifestations of primal power. The origin of our art can be found in the cumbersome magicks of our ancestors - subsequently focused and refined through their use in the funereal rites of the Order of Nald'thal. Though once used exclusively for the preparation of the dead, these incantations of destruction soon found new purpose on the battlefield. Hm hm hm... "Death," of course, is still very much the central focus of the discipline.

 

While the official game data and the above state that thaumaturgy comes from within, it's implied (at least to me) that our inner aether provides the catalyst to start the flow and we start "pushing and pulling" aether from our surroundings in and out of our physical forms.

 

Astral Fire and Umbral Ice.

 

Just, uh... Don't abuse it. Unless you really, really hate your internal organs.

Glad to see someone shares my headcanon for the give and take of thaumaturgy. '3'

[Sigil.9054]

Thank you for your responses thus far! So far it's looking like Thaumaturge and Arcanist would be the most appropriate paths for my character, given her personality. I'll also happily roleplay her taking weeks to learn the basics. ^^

[OttoVann]

AS easy as you want it to be for YOUR character.

[Sigil.9054]

AS easy as you want it to be for YOUR character.

 

I suppose I'm to thank you for reminding me that it's my character, and I can do as I please.

 

But since I'm posting a thread requesting the input of my fellow roleplayers, one should infer that I at least marginally care about what they have to say on the matter. The manner in which I choose to play my character takes into consideration the ideas of the community in which I choose to include myself.

[OttoVann]

AS easy as you want it to be for YOUR character.

 

I suppose I'm to thank you for reminding me that it's my character, and I can do as I please.

 

But since I'm posting a thread requesting the input of my fellow roleplayers, one should infer that I at least marginally care about what they have to say on the matter. The manner in which I choose to play my character takes into consideration the ideas of the community in which I choose to include myself.

 

Dont forget to infer that despite this website being based and great, its a minority on Balmung and its opinions are as such as well. Balmung is huge, this place isn't. Don't pigeon hole yourself into fitting in here above all else when you ignore a majority of the unseen RP server.

[Marisa]

Now what I don't understand, is that I was told pretty summarily by my Linkshell that Magitek healing is impossible. But for why? It does such a great many things, one would think emulating cure or Physick would be a trivial task. Especially since, wouldn't you be able to reproduce arcanist magick with a computer and a printer? I mean, aren't they literally just drawing shapes and equations for their spells?

[FreelanceWizard]

Now what I don't understand, is that I was told pretty summarily by my Linkshell that Magitek healing is impossible. But for why? It does such a great many things, one would think emulating cure or Physick would be a trivial task. Especially since, wouldn't you be able to reproduce arcanist magick with a computer and a printer? I mean, aren't they literally just drawing shapes and equations for their spells?

 

Arcanima's a bit more complicated than that. The geometries act as a focus and conduct aether, which is why they're typically drawn in specialized inks for the purpose. You could perhaps reproduce the geometries with a computer and a printer, but without the will to channel aether through them, they'd just be pretty pictures.

 

As for magitek healing, given that Garlean mobs employ "healing spells," I'm not sure why someone would assert that magitek healing is impossible. I don't recall ever seeing lore indicating that's the case. While the healing we see from Medicus mobs could be conscripts who can use magic, it could also be from magitek devices, which seem to be able to do a wide variety of things.

[Marisa]

 

 

Arcanima's a bit more complicated than that. The geometries act as a focus and conduct aether, which is why they're typically drawn in specialized inks for the purpose. You could perhaps reproduce the geometries with a computer and a printer, but without the will to channel aether through them, they'd just be pretty pictures.

 

As for magitek healing, given that Garlean mobs employ "healing spells," I'm not sure why someone would assert that magitek healing is impossible. I don't recall ever seeing lore indicating that's the case. While the healing we see from Medicus mobs could be conscripts who can use magic, it could also be from magitek devices, which seem to be able to do a wide variety of things.

 

I thought that seemed silly! Especially since conjury staves are supposed to be made from special trees or whatnot, yet the ironworks healing staff is very clearly a magitek device. I was told it was a lore oversight for the sake of the gear theme, but I think it's quite literally magitek healing technology!

[FreelanceWizard]

Given that the Allagan sets are clearly not natural, and that the Ironworks set is reverse-engineered from data in Allagan tomestones, I think it's safe to say there's more ways to build instruments to channel aether than Eorzeans fully understand. Sure, the average carpenter may only know how to make a wood staff for focusing aether, but that doesn't exclude magitek and Allagan approaches.

 

Also, conjury isn't the only way to heal. Thaumaturges used to be able to do so in 1.0 (their inability to do so now is a lore vs. mechanics mismatch), arcanists can heal, and alchemists can as well (through potions).

 

So, I personally don't see any reason why magitek couldn't be used to heal directly, or that a magitek device couldn't act as an aether focus. We know from HW that considerable advances are being made in merging aether with machines -- the practice now known as machinistry.

[Roda]

Also, conjury isn't the only way to heal. Thaumaturges used to be able to do so in 1.0 (their inability to do so now is a lore vs. mechanics mismatch), arcanists can heal, and alchemists can as well (through potions).

Lore vs mechanics, smore vs slechanics.

As a blackmage I just healed through half a Titan fight before the tank flew off the edge and I think that should count for something! >:T

[Thorgar]

AS easy as you want it to be for YOUR character.

 

I suppose I'm to thank you for reminding me that it's my character, and I can do as I please.

 

But since I'm posting a thread requesting the input of my fellow roleplayers, one should infer that I at least marginally care about what they have to say on the matter.  The manner in which I choose to play my character takes into consideration the ideas of the community in which I choose to include myself.

i read your response and the smart arse in me has to say "we use silly string for all summonings and poptarts as rune tablets... trust me" =^.^=

 

on a somewhat more on topic reply;  When you look at magic through the lens of Theoretical Physics, magic is simply the act of manipulating energy with energy. you start with the base form wave (your personal energy/chi/bio-electric/bio-em) you pass it through a medium (wand/rod/crystal/etc) to which it phase shifts taking on similar properties.  Once in-sync you manipulate that energy field by applying "pressure" and effectively creating eddies and currents in a stable field then control the resulting cascade failure into its desired form (fireball/cure/tax-audit). 

 

Learning to use that energy would be like learning to flap your ears, easy to conceptualize harder to do. however once you learn to do that base task (flapping your ears or summon fire) it becomes easier to do.  Most learned forms of magic require a medium.  i say require but what i mean is they are taught to use the medium to find the pattern they need to sync with which causes them to become dependent on using said medium.  Basically its not required but without it casting magic becomes significantly harder for your average energy manipulator.  For most they could not do it with out the aid of the medium, and later casting spells add to that dependency by giving them additional mediums for more grandiose energy manipulations.

 

not sure if this will help, but fun food for ideas.

[DreamedReality]

I have another question on how other people interpenetrate aether potency. It is flat out said at several points in the MSQ that Eorzea is a land of a lot of trapped aether and quite aetherically rich.

 

Does anyone have any information or theories on how drawing on it are on the other continents? Would disciplines that draw aether from the environment rather than from inside oneself be more difficult to do?

[Gaspard]

quite so. I believe that garlemald is described as aetherically depleted, as its been farmed till kingdom come for ceruleum. Its also known that areas where many have died are also aetherically charged.

 

alas, there's  a chance that some forms of magic might be rendered useless on garlemald/garlean lands. 

 

beyond that however, I've little memory and would rather sounds the sounsyy signal

[Unnamed Mercenary]

The Vegas fanfest had a small story about why Eorzea (and the rest of Aldenard is so aether-rich). I wish I could find the exact text, but the general tale was that once, all the continents were together. The other continents we bigger and bullied Aldenard, and became jealous of its gifts, moving away. The story was about how the continents split apart and why there's distance between them. Because the flow of the aetherstream is at Silvertear Lake, Aldenard naturally has the highest concentration of aether. The other continents are further away, which lessens the flow.

[Hammersmith]

I'm going under the assumption that everything "magic" still works on the existing "Aether manipulation makes things happen".  Which means the wiggle room you have is how you get magic to fuck around under your command.  

 

With that in mind, the School of Practice I have worked up for a later thing.  It's close to Bardic, but it's a lot more primitive and a lot less 'pretty'.

 

 

- What are the factors in learning magic? 

Heart and soul and a good memory.  Can't sing a song if you don't know the words or don't believe the words.

 

- Does it require study?

A good amount, since you have to know the words and how to sing along, but all of that's for nothing if you can't hold a tune and scream the right word.  Some people just aren't cut out for it.  Some people are nothing BUT one giant song waiting to be sung and they're pretty well fit for it.

 

 

You either 'get' it or you don't, after study.  Bad students of it tend to say the wrong word at the wrong time for the wrong reason with the wrong emotion and end up dead in very unique ways.

- Does it require a sort of "attunement" with the magic of the world?

Yes and no.  Everything's got a word behind it.  Trick is knowing it.  Trick is finding them.  Trick is knowing how to use them.  It's barely even magic, it's more putting a lever into things and forcing them to move a certain way under the force of whatever you put into the word, using your force of emotion as the lever.  It's one part Word, one part Emotional investment driving it and if you have both of them, it's enough to cause some change.

 

- What kind of components are involved? IE, Vocal, Somatic, Material, Focus, etc.

It's somatic.  It's song and word and curse and shout and scream and lul and lilt and poetic joy.  It's word and voice and heart.  You don't need components to do it, but you can only manipulate existant things so it doesn't work in a vacuum.  It's also doesn't have a lot of words for catastrophic, unnatural things, so the song can't drop a moon or teleport someone, or raise the dead.

 

It CAN coax all the heat out of the front of your skull and give you a brain freeze from hell.  It -can- pull all the flame and heat in a room into one point and then release it in one quick, ugly, violent flash-bang blast.  If you're feeling really adventurous you could try calling lightning, assuming you knew the right name for the right kind in the right place, but lightning's kind of notorious for being indiscriminate once it's unleashed.  You could pull chunks of shrapnel out of something, you could draw poison out assuming you knew the "word" for the poison.

 

Thing is: All of this takes the Words.  Not a lot of them are known, they're kept secret by practitioners, and used as a kind of currency between people who do this kind of thing.  Secrets kept are powerful, even if they're small.  Assuming you can match the kind of emotion the word wants to function, you can do a lot with it, but doing it right means knowing the words and how to use them. That's so intense most practitioners only work in a certain 'facet' of the language.

 

- Does magic draw energy of some kind from the user?

It's using their emotion as the leverage to "shape" aether, and the word they're speaking specify where that lever gets applied.  How they speak, how intense they feel, and how purely, dictates how it works.  If you're missing the heart, the song, or the word, the entire thing collapses and tends to target a part of you with it, by force, 

Needless to say people who know this sort of school don't use it just for 'kicks'.  No one wants their brain getting catapulted out of their ear at mach 2.  No one wants to have their bones turn to liquid or their eyes into rocks.

 

 

Don't say the wrong words.  Don't say them if you don't mean it.

 

- Does it vary depending on the kind of magic? If yes, how so?

 

 

I think there's a billion different ways to shape aether, shape the effect, and to what degree of power, so definitely.

[DreamedReality]

quite so. I believe that garlemald is described as aetherically depleted, as its been farmed till kingdom come for ceruleum. Its also known that areas where many have died are also aetherically charged.

 

alas, there's  a chance that some forms of magic might be rendered useless on garlemald/garlean lands. 

 

beyond that however, I've little memory and would rather sounds the sounsyy signal

 

Ahhh thank you! And good to know about Garlemald.

 

The Vegas fanfest had a small story about why Eorzea (and the rest of Aldenard is so aether-rich). I wish I could find the exact text, but the general tale was that once, all the continents were together. The other continents we bigger and bullied Aldenard, and became jealous of its gifts, moving away. The story was about how the continents split apart and why there's distance between them. Because the flow of the aetherstream is at Silvertear Lake, Aldenard naturally has the highest concentration of aether. The other continents are further away, which lessens the flow.

 

Ohhh I did a few searches but didn't find the story. Thanks for the synopsis!

 If anyone does know where to read this at in it's entirety I'd love to read!

[Sounsyy]

The Vegas fanfest had a small story about why Eorzea (and the rest of Aldenard is so aether-rich). I wish I could find the exact text, but the general tale was that once, all the continents were together. The other continents we bigger and bullied Aldenard, and became jealous of its gifts, moving away. The story was about how the continents split apart and why there's distance between them. Because the flow of the aetherstream is at Silvertear Lake, Aldenard naturally has the highest concentration of aether. The other continents are further away, which lessens the flow.

 

Ohhh I did a few searches but didn't find the story. Thanks for the synopsis!

 If anyone does know where to read this at in it's entirety I'd love to read!

 

Las Vegas Fan Festival

(@27:01)

 

The continents - We all know about Aldenard, and then we have Ilsabard where the Garlean Empire is, and then in the Far East you have Othard. These names actually have this kinda cool history to them.

 

The legend that's told in Eorzea is that Aldenard, Ilsabard, and Othard were three brothers that were really tight and always wanted to stay together. They made a pact that they would never be apart and they would always stay together. Until, Ilsabard and Othard saw that Aldenard had all this cool stuff and was hoarding all of the resources, the beautiful land, etc. So they decided to betray him and they moved away and left Aldenard all alone.

 

What happened next was the Twelve saw this wrong that was done by Ilsabard and Othard to the third brother. So the gods decided to bless only Aldenard and not bless the other two. And that's why you have the land blessed by the gods. And that's why Ilsabard and Othard are separated. It's a pretty cool way to explain plate tectonics.

[Aduu Avagnar]

- Does it require a sort of "attunement" with the magic of the world?

Yes and no.  Everything's got a word behind it.  Trick is knowing it.  Trick is finding them.  Trick is knowing how to use them.  It's barely even magic, it's more putting a lever into things and forcing them to move a certain way under the force of whatever you put into the word, using your force of emotion as the lever.  It's one part Word, one part Emotional investment driving it and if you have both of them, it's enough to cause some change.

Only one question, is Muad'dib a killing word?

[Gaspard]

He who controls the spice

[Hammersmith]

- Does it require a sort of "attunement" with the magic of the world?

Yes and no.  Everything's got a word behind it.  Trick is knowing it.  Trick is finding them.  Trick is knowing how to use them.  It's barely even magic, it's more putting a lever into things and forcing them to move a certain way under the force of whatever you put into the word, using your force of emotion as the lever.  It's one part Word, one part Emotional investment driving it and if you have both of them, it's enough to cause some change.

Only one question, is Muad'dib a killing word?

 

If it wasn't before it is now.