[Spoilers] Dark Knights, Am I the Only One?

[Larson]

To those who think emotional power is dumb, remember that you are calling the core theme of a Beserker class dumb. Beserkers are thematically blinded by anger/rage/insanity. They go Hulk and don't look back (until they hurt someone they love). Playing a canon BLK is a great idea because your personal struggles are going to be visceral and powerful battles with your own mind. Being a voidsent? No one cares.

[LiveVoltage]

I thought about this for a bit and being a Dark Knight is actually kind of tragic in itself, since you cant live a normal life anymore. The Darkside urges would make it impossible to live a stable normal life outside of battle because it will constantly urge you to do things like kill, spill blood, etc. The Darkside urges differ on an individual basis from Dark Knight to Dark knight. Some urges are completely unexpected, but a Darkside outside of battle makes a normal life near impossible.

 

I call Sarnai the Ortharian Dark Knight, and the way I play it, I try to stick with the lore representation of it, but with my own twist. Basically, she can sense other Darksides and the void, the sooner being cannon that DRK's can sense each other and the former being added onto that because the Darkside senses malevolent intentions or the dark nature of others, which the void often has these aspects.

 

I also play her as a ritualist that uses blood magic and rituals to enhance her power temporarily, divine things, etc.

 

In short, she plays as if she was a witch archtype, but wearing heavy/light armor and a greatsword.

[Smagon]

This makes me wonder, can a person that fully embraces their negative aspect have a darkside? Let's say someone admits to themselves that they are a killer, they enjoy killing, and they are not going to stop killing anytime soon. For the sake of this example, let's also assume that this man is also able to keep his urges in check until an "appropriate" time. Would this man have a darkside? Is denying the negative aspect of yourself a prerequisite to having a darkside? What kind of person has the capability of of developing a darkside? Is who gets a magical power based on it entirely random or is there a specific "way" that it can develop in anyone?

[LiveVoltage]

In order to gain a Darkside, you need to be exposed to a Fallen Dark knights soulstone or indoctrinated into the Darkside.

 

As seen in the class quests, the WoL is exposed to the soul stone, while Sidguru is an indoctrinated DRK.

[Branson Thorne]

In order to gain a Darkside, you need to be exposed to a Fallen Dark knights soulstone or indoctrinated into the Darkside.

 

As seen in the class quests, the WoL is exposed to the soul stone, while Sidguru is an indoctrinated DRK.

I understand how the soulstones work, but what about the indoctrination.

Is there any info on how it's done?

[Smagon]

In order to gain a Darkside, you need to be exposed to a Fallen Dark knights soulstone or indoctrinated into the Darkside.

 

As seen in the class quests, the WoL is exposed to the soul stone, while Sidguru is an indoctrinated DRK.

There has to be a way for it to naturally occur, otherwise there would have never been a first Dark Knight. Maybe they went into it in the class quests, I don't remember if they did though.

[LiveVoltage]

In order to gain a Darkside, you need to be exposed to a Fallen Dark knights soulstone or indoctrinated into the Darkside.

 

As seen in the class quests, the WoL is exposed to the soul stone, while Sidguru is an indoctrinated DRK.

I understand how the soulstones work, but what about the indoctrination.

Is there any info on how it's done?

There is no example of how its done, but Sidguru was not exposed to a Fallen Knights stone nor was his fellow apprentice when they were training under Sidguru's DRK master. During the period of his childhood when he was adopted to his current age, I believe is the time period in which he was indoctrinated and developed his Darkside.

 

EDIT: Also at Smagon -- The first Dark Knight has self realized his own dark powers and used them to save others. The rest after that are either indoctrinated by a living DRK to their darkside or develop one from picking up a fallen DRK's stone.

[Smagon]

In order to gain a Darkside, you need to be exposed to a Fallen Dark knights soulstone or indoctrinated into the Darkside.

 

As seen in the class quests, the WoL is exposed to the soul stone, while Sidguru is an indoctrinated DRK.

I understand how the soulstones work, but what about the indoctrination.

Is there any info on how it's done?

There is no example of how its done, but Sidguru was not exposed to a Fallen Knights stone nor was his fellow apprentice when they were training under Sidguru's DRK master. During the period of his childhood when he was adopted to his current age, I believe is the time period in which he was indoctrinated and developed his Darkside.

 

EDIT: Also at Smagon -- The first Dark Knight has self realized his own dark powers and used them to save others. The rest after that are either indoctrinated by a living DRK to their darkside or develop one from picking up a fallen DRK's stone.

 

I don't know, it doesn't make sense that only one guy ever would be able to do that without outside help. Sure, maybe a fresh Dark Knight wouldn't exactly know what to do or how to do it but I don't think it would bar him from developing those powers entirely. But I could be wrong. Like I said, I do not remember the class quests all too well.

[LiveVoltage]

@Smagon

 

Its just holes in the world lore. Nobody is really sure how the first DRK got his power, just that DRK's after him were either indoctrinated into their Darkside or developed one from a stone.

[John Spiegel]

*didn't read past OP*

 

Way before DRK was even announced the emotion-powered means was pretty much the way I went about John Spiegel as being Void-powered didn't really make sense imo. He's always been an outcast with even those he's close to and whatnot, he doesn't dick with the details, he just goes about life.

 

So you're not alone, OP.

 

Though I'm quite pleased a lot of folks are just normies with big swords. It's realistic, too. Just like we would see pirates use guns, knives, swords or axes, we too can see a standard fighter use various sorts of weapons without having the edgyness behind it!

[Savarah]

This may have been mentioned by someone prior (there's a bunch on this topic, and I'm glad to see that), but I took the DRK skillset and armor and what have you, replaced the edgy darkness with elements instead.

 

Now I know many people won't like that, and might consider it lore-breaking, but it's not like my character runs around casting fireballs at people with her greatsword. It works very well with her narrative, and she rarely reveals anything elemental to anyone. He clan knows about it, and that's pretty much it.

[Xydane Vale]

This topic right here - why haven't I noticed it before?

 

I absolutely love everyone's take on DRK. I must say, the DRK quests have been very emotional and awesome at the same time. When I first started playing FFXIV, I had always wanted Xydane (and his NPC brother Marcus) to go the DRK route. I was familiar of Dark Knights in past Final Fantasy games so I was slowly (yet carefully) having my character and his brother make their way towards this path. Though Heavensward didn't exist at the time upon initial release of the game, I had very little to work with.

 

For a little background information, the life of Xydane and Marcus started as a typical happy childhood with loving family and friends. Due to war and the everyday horrors of reality, the brothers lost everything and were the only survivors of their town. Forced to leave at a very young age, the brothers traveled and stumbled upon Ishgard nearly dead.

 

New friends became family and the brothers believed they were given a second chance at life but as they grew older and days became years in Ishgard, they were wrong. Once more, reality took over and loved ones die.

 

The will to protect loved ones and people, the drive to become stronger, the constant defeat of thinking "I was not strong enough to save him/her" would eventually drive one mad.

 

This ultimately became the path in which I can lead the brothers into becoming DRK. Their lust for strength and power - the drive and motivation to become the strongest weapon in order to never let anyone die again - would only lead to tragic, insanity, and ruin. Of course, the many paths of DRK can be dark and gritty or perhaps one of redemption and justice.

 

For those interested, the stories: "In Search of Melodies in Ruin" and "The Vale Brothers" tells of their current path to madness.

 

Now what I made interesting for readers and other RPers is that in the story "In Search of Melodies in Ruin", you can see that something happened to the brothers after they fell off the cliff, disappearing from Ishgard for months, and only to find out that they have traveled back home as Dark Knights. What happened to them? How did they discover this power? What there someone who was an influence?

[kharnlol]

There has to be a way for it to naturally occur, otherwise there would have never been a first Dark Knight. Maybe they went into it in the class quests, I don't remember if they did though.

 

The first Dark Knight didn't have the power of darkness starting out. If he did, it's not explicitly stated. Dark Knights were first formed in their philosophy of being able to risk everything they had without consequence: To uphold justice at any cost, which is a more gruesomely necessary outlook to being a knight or paladin of your oaths. This being what literally dubs them as a dark knight, which sparked the first one taking it as a title of his trade. The result of being able to hold belief/emotions so passionate to uphold your duty is what sparks the darkness within you.

 

"Recall the story of the first, who was that rarest of knights--one who held his vows sancrosanct and strove ever to walk in the Fury's grace.

 

This man good and true did what no one else had the courage to do. He passed judgment on a vile beast who had used his position in the clergy to commit unspeakable crimes.

 

To wit, he cut down the clergyman before the eyes of gods and men, ensuring that the bastard would never harm another child of the Brume again.

 

The Holy See could not abide by such an action, of course. He was detained and delivered unto the Tribunal. Though he won his freedom through trial by combat, he was later stripped of his titles and denounced for his deeds.

 

But rather than lament his poor fortune, he embraced it. If they would condemn him as a dark knight, then he would take it as a title. He forsook the trappings of his past life, including his sigil and the shield which bore it. In its place, he came to wield something far more potent: a power born of the abyss which lies at the heart of us all. A darkness which can grant us great strength...at a price.

 

I once thought I understood this power. But then I met a band of singing moogles, and...well, I wouldn't say I'm conflicted. I'm rather certain that I have a great understanding of the darkness within than some furry little shites. Still, I...I'm not quite sure what to think."

 

Then there's the contrary of Fray's, who is much more vague:

 

"Well, well, don't you look the part. Ready to harness the darkness within to set the wrong things right. Now, bear in mind that while the darkness gives you strength, that strength comes at cost. That is but one sacrifice, though─and justice demands many. Say a man─a venerable, untouchable man─harms a child in unspeakable ways. He strides through the Hoplon, secure in the knowledge that he is beyond punishment. But for one who cuts down that vile beast as he flaunts his freedom, who knows how many others will suffer? Such was the dilemma faced by a goodly knight long ago. He knew that he would be stripped of his titles and denounced for the deed. The threshold we refuse to cross is a line we drew for ourselves. We fear the consequences, and people suffer for our indecision. Everyone who held that crystal came to conquer that fear, and became who they wanted to be. That knight was the first. Will you be the next? Think on that while we look into the commotion down below."

 

Sidurgu's creed, which he utters if you walk by him during the Moogle Fetch Quest you're sent upon is: "Strength is Pain, Strength is Suffering, Strength is Sacrifice." This could very well be assumed, if it wasn't explicitly implied, to be an indoctrinated Dark Knight's code. However, it seems too oddly specific in regards to what Dark Knights are capable of in regards to their motivation. Logically, it might be this creed that spawned the first dark knight's darkside. Those three things being a staple in what garners their power. It's not explicitly confirmed, if it was, we wouldn't have this conversation. But, given the trend Final Fantasy has with older Dark Knights and the ones in this game, it wouldn't be surprising if that's what harnessed the abyss for atleast the first knight to do so. That's the price they must all pay to uphold their oaths. 

 

*Lore Sources:

- Sidurgu's NPC, located in the Forgotten Knight, Ishgard.

- Lv. 30, Ishgardian Justice

- Lv. 58, The Flame in the Abyss

[Coatleque]

Coatleque is right on that edge now. So close to tipping over. If she does snap, I don't know if it would be Dark Knight as much as just fallen paladin. If there is such a thing in this setting. Her weariness at being taken advantage of is starting to trump her desire to protect others.

[-no longer matters-]

Coatleque is right on that edge now.  So close to tipping over.  If she does snap, I don't know if it would be Dark Knight as much as just fallen paladin.  If there is such a thing in this setting.  Her weariness at being taken advantage of is starting to trump her desire to protect others.

Depends is it 

a.)I am sick of these rules, I want to bring justice my way?

 

Or is it, 

b.) There's a Darkness taking hold I can't fight it?

 

If A.) she's a Dark Knight, if B.) It's your own thing you can call a fallen Paladin I suppose.

 

 

I..I'm doing something interesting with Gwen,

 

don't want to get to much into it publicly until I/we get more lore (Only revealing it to a very small group of trusted friends ICly), because a lot of it is based off of interpretation of lore we have... Sadly it is Head Canon based off those interpretations though at the moment at least.

 

[Aaron]

Coatleque is right on that edge now.  So close to tipping over.  If she does snap, I don't know if it would be Dark Knight as much as just fallen paladin.  If there is such a thing in this setting.  Her weariness at being taken advantage of is starting to trump her desire to protect others.

Get that Faux PLD sword that glows red and go Dark Paladin if you wanna be a fallen Paladin lol.

 

I'm joking. But seriously i wish the DRK weapon looked like the PLD one. Not some retardedly bent club.

[Warren Castille]

Fray's tutelage aside, there is nothing specifically that says Dark Knights must have a Dark Side and go through everything verbatim the Warrior of Light does. It's reasonable enough to simply be someone taking a more violent approach to justice than the law allows without having to overcome inner darkness. The title is used to describe the things people do with the power, not the people who necessarily wield it, and there's no way anyone can convince me that it's only possible to kill corrupt clergymen with My Chemical Romance on repeat in the background.

[mongi291]

Coatleque is right on that edge now.  So close to tipping over.  If she does snap, I don't know if it would be Dark Knight as much as just fallen paladin.  If there is such a thing in this setting.  Her weariness at being taken advantage of is starting to trump her desire to protect others.

Get that Faux PLD sword that glows red and go Dark Paladin if you wanna be a fallen Paladin lol.

 

I'm joking. But seriously i wish the DRK weapon looked like the PLD one. Not some retardedly bent club.

I wish we'd get more DRK weapons like the Ul'dahn/Gridanian/Lominsan Claymore, the Balisarde, ecc... but more ornated.

There's the Adamantite Zweihander, but it's a flamberge. I hate those.

[FallenFedora]

Honestly I'm in the same boat you are - As I understood from the introduction quest associated with the class, the DRK derives his/her power from their inner-self. They pull from their own hate, suffering, and other negative emotions in such a way that they physically manifest themselves. I'm also of the thought that these emotions (given I also think DRK's are gifted -and- cursed) can literally consume them and swallow them up. (though to a much more violent result than the WAR demonstrated with their 'inner beast' bit)

 

Via Reddit:

Soroth23 Wrote:

So, I have a level 50 warrior and now a level 54 Dark Knight, and ive noticed that there are similarities in the lore of Dark Knights and Warriors. They both use their inner turmoils to fuel their power when fighting, the rage of the inner beast and the darkness within ones soul. hey both use these powers to protect those they care about and their allies. They use these powers knowing full well that if they lose control of it, it can be very challenging if not impossible for them to return from the abyss. I think this is really cool, and a really nice contrast to Paladins.

 

This is all of course subject to interpretation on the player's part, of course and this being my own. Stroud is, medicated because he's incapable of managing the 'darkside' on his own; My own idea is that it causes excruciating pain and lends itself to a descent into dementia (he develops extremist tendencies in keeping with the emotional instability) due to how far he's gone 'to the other side'. (tapped his own inner-hate and negative emotions.) but that's also because I prefer to have several negative qualities to my own characters rather than one overall badass or average joe.

 

I also have a friend whole plays it off as a split-personality of sorts, where they are just rendered numb and indifferent rather than emotionally engrossed in their power. I honestly think there's several ways one could go about portraying a DRK.

[kharnlol]

Fray's tutelage aside, there is nothing specifically that says Dark Knights must have a Dark Side and go through everything verbatim the Warrior of Light does. It's reasonable enough to simply be someone taking a more violent approach to justice than the law allows without having to overcome inner darkness. The title is used to describe the things people do with the power, not the people who necessarily wield it, and there's no way anyone can convince me that it's only possible to kill corrupt clergymen with My Chemical Romance on repeat in the background.

 

This is one of the most important things to take from what I posted as well.

[Smagon]

So what I'm getting out of this (and a few other threads) is that the dark side was a unique thing that only happened to the first dark knight. Maybe it was genetics or something but whatever the case, no one else would be able to naturally develop a dark side and would have to pull it out manually via soul stone or being taught by another dark knight. On top of that, the dark knight style of magic would be unique to Eorzea and would not be seen anywhere else in the world because the only way to gain those powers is to be taught by another dark knight, and to be taught you would have to join their order of batmen, which would likely root you in Ishgard and the surrounding areas.

 

Just trying to clarify for my own sake so I know if some retconning needs to be done on my part.

[-no longer matters-]

So what I'm getting out of this (and a few other threads) is that the dark side was a unique thing that only happened to the first dark knight. Maybe it was genetics or something but whatever the case, no one else would be able to naturally develop a dark side and would have to pull it out manually via soul stone or being taught by another dark knight. On top of that, the dark knight style of magic would be unique to Eorzea and would not be seen anywhere else in the world because the only way to gain those powers is to be taught by another dark knight, and to be taught you would have to join their order of batmen, which would likely root you in Ishgard and the surrounding areas.

 

Just trying to clarify for my own sake so I know if some retconning needs to be done on my part.

Unless you get self taught by the crystal which is essentially what happens in the class quests 30-50.

 

 

Fray is your Darkside animating a corpse.

 

That said you'd probably have to have a metric ton of aether like the WoL to do that, also who says you can't give the finger to the order and leave after your training?

[kharnlol]

So what I'm getting out of this (and a few other threads) is that the dark side was a unique thing that only happened to the first dark knight. Maybe it was genetics or something but whatever the case, no one else would be able to naturally develop a dark side and would have to pull it out manually via soul stone or being taught by another dark knight. On top of that, the dark knight style of magic would be unique to Eorzea and would not be seen anywhere else in the world because the only way to gain those powers is to be taught by another dark knight, and to be taught you would have to join their order of batmen, which would likely root you in Ishgard and the surrounding areas.

 

Just trying to clarify for my own sake so I know if some retconning needs to be done on my part.

 

The first DRK didn't initially have it. Darkness (The Abyss) is inside of everyone, Fray says this himself. It's Dark Knights that apply themselves (or have a soul crystal) that can harness the darkness within. It's not genetics. It's aether. This form of Dark Knights is unique to Ishgard as far as Eorzeans know, but there's nothing explicitly stating it couldn't have existed anywhere else, because being a dark knight is a philosophy that incites the power, not a 'literal' class unless you can actually channel the abyss.

 

However, yes, to be taught you'd have to learn from an Ishgardian that is one, loot a crystal from a dead body, or be so into being a knight that you go full murder-batman (I guess that'd be the Punisher) that you develop the power of your own accord while being fucked in the process.

 

I'm sure there are other ways, but it takes creativity and a lot of strict attentiveness to the lore that is presented until more comes out (probably with the zodiac questline.)

[PhantasticPanda]

I wouldn't say it was genetics or unique to the first dark knight. Remember that Dark Knight is simply a title since a dark knight just refers to a knight without allegiance or affiliation to a noble house or such. Think of it like Free Paladins. Though it appears that Dark Knight now extends to those taught the same art as the first dark knight was.

 

I mean, every branch of magic starts somewhere right? And there's off-shoots of them as well. It just needs the appropriate introspection, meditation, and one's ability to manipulate/use the aether that naturally occurs in the world. I find Dark Knight magic similar (but not the same) to Thaumaturgy. Both uses the same basic principle of channeling one's internal aether then shaping it into a desired form though a dark knight's magic appears to be shaped by and formed to and by one's emotions. It just so happens that the first master originated from Ishgard (but when? Ishgard is 1000 years old) and that type of magic slowly became more widespread (though still secretive due to its destructive and questionable nature. Akin to how black magic is kept within a secret order of mages.).

[Smagon]

To clarify, yeah that's what I was talking about. The style of magic rather than the dark knight title. I wasn't really sure what to call it so I just called it by the class name.