BLM/THM Inquiry

[Oli!]

It's important to note that the separation between mechanics and lore occurs when those that are modeling the assets and coding the functions aren't given the ten years and several terabytes of data-space they would need in order to program-out every single possible application of what the lore says, while simultaneously maintaining some semblance of balance to give players equal footing.

 

You could probably give a THM a sword and have them swing it around like Gandalf while simultaneously shooting fire and magical lasers from it. You could also make a staff-fighting Monk that heals their buddies with Conjury.

 

They're not impossible, we just don't have those things because programming them in wouldn't necessarily make for a balanced / good / timely-released game.

[Warren Castille]

True, and if someone came at that angle with an appropriate level of gravitas and explanation, I don't see it being a problem. Handcuffing people to only using hotbar skills in RP is a bit strange for roleplayers, though.

 

 

Yes, I am aware of the irony that I am the one advocating this.

 

[Ashe]

So if I see someone pull a move out from their class/job that legit doesn't exist, like  /emote casts a move that seems like it came straight out of WoW or another game and flies in the air like a majestic fucking eagle.

....then I get confused xPP

 

How did you feel about Ilberd imbuing his sword with glowy red power and flying through the air in the climax of 2.55?

Hmmmmm....I've been through 2.55 twice now and every time I watch those cutscenes I am already so fucking mad I forget to think about that haha.

The feels never go way, man.

Buuuut...I honestly don't know what to make of that. It's like DRK crap but it's not? Honestly those scenes were mostly for dramatic effect. I think it's possible to channel your aether into stuff...monks that heal with conjury (as Oli! was talking about), aren't impossible. There are cross class stuff and I know people who RP as having skills in more than one "class" ICly.  Monks who can heal are more believable than someone who is a summoner, white mage, and black mage and channels their geometries, elemental stuff and earthly aether through their spear while leaping around like a dragoon while murdering primals >>

 

Quick edit: I've had Ashe channel through another mage's staff while fighting him as a ninja. I don't mind stuff that is BELIEVABLE that is not on your hotbar...but if you're gonna make your character fly you better be able to back that shit up haha

[Warren Castille]

There's precedent for off-hotbar skills, though. There's multi-colored Carbuncles we never got to see before. There's an entire school of sword skills that we don't have access to. Why not 1.0 spells, then? Why not waves of fire, or balls of lightning, or any number of things imagined?

 

If you write it well enough, people won't care what you do with it.

[Ashe]

Apparently you can't quote yourself?

 

"I don't mind stuff that is BELIEVABLE that is not on your hotbar"

 

That is the case and point

[Oli!]

Believability is a subjective concept.

 

On another note, subjectivity is apparently my favorite thing now.

 

The only way to discuss such things is in terms of actual, present "Yes" and "No" gates in the setting that relate to the concept.

[Desu Nee]

Nevermind me, just reading about an age I never experienced to improve my own RP Thaumaturge skills.

[Warren Castille]

Apparently you can't quote yourself?

 

"I don't mind stuff that is BELIEVABLE that is not on your hotbar"

 

That is the case and point

 

"Cast from HP" is a trope. Hell, what's that Vita game that's entirely about sacrificing body parts and things for power and spells? It's not unheard of, so someone doing it here isn't too far of a stretch.

[Oli!]

Casting from HP is on the hotbar anyway, so I'm not entirely sure why we're going down that road.

[Ashe]

I never said anything about casting from Hp. I believe my example was sacrificing your arm to void sent for greater power and then getting some op robot limb and telling everyone about it

[Sounsyy]

It's not as if Square came in and said "This never happened" or anything. The lore panel that commented on it basically agreed that the lore and the mechanics don't mesh, but the lore was still valid. I think. SOUNSYY DO THE THING YOU DO.

 

As was pointed out a couple times in this thread, class mechanics changes do not equate to class lore retcons.

 

From Fernehalwes' own mouth (in regards to renaming Acheron)

As a lover of lore' date=' I hate retconning more than I hate corned beef in my yogurt, but this seemed to be an instance where a grievous wrong needed to be righted, and so here we are.[/quote']

 

I would actually seriously challenge you to present a case where a segment of lore had been officially altered from its 1.0 incarnation. I guarantee that if you found some, the number of instances would pale in comparison to the number of obsessively minute details of the lore they've managed to transfer over from the original version of the game that most people, even 1.0 players, will completely miss.

 

 

For example, in Aleport, to the east of the aetheryte is a Lalafell named Fupepe. When you talk to him, he says this:

Ain’t but one thing ye need to succeed in life' date=' an’ that’s gumption. Had not a gil to me name when I started searchin’ for shells to sell, but look at me now – got me own proper business, an’ I ain’t had to gather shells meself in years![/quote']

 

Seems pretty innocuous right? Well, this is actually a reference to 1.0!

 

Me da brews ale' date=' but drinks more'n he makes. When he ain't sleepin', he's lookin' fer an excuse t' give me a strappin', so I spends me time out here on the beaches, searchin' fer seashells. Bubusha says there's beaches far to the east what're so big, the people livin' on 'em ain't never seen the sea! What I wouldn't give t' see a beach that big. Think of all the seashells there'd be![/quote']

I earn extra coin fer me mum collectin' the sparklies what wash up with the tide. She says they're all gifts from the Navigator' date=' but I know it's really plunder from sunken pirate ships! You a pirate, too? Someday, I wanna leave Aleport and become a pirate--but me mum'd whip me raw if she heard me talkin' like that![/quote']

 

Fupepe became a successful businessman selling seashells because of his childhood friend Bubusha, who, as far as we know, did not survive the Calamity.

 

 

Who's talked to Ahldskyf, that Roegadyn milling about near the aetheryte in Limsa?

I'm the hired captain of the Orion. She's a fine vessel' date=' true, but a hired captain can love his ship only as much as a paid bride can love her betrothed. A ship of my own is all I've ever wanted. Was a gil away from buyin' one when the Calamity struck, but how can I complain when so many lost so much more?[/quote']

 

Well, did you know that it was you helping him out in the 1.0 quest "Letting Out Orion's Belt" that got him that ship? He wanted to buy the Orion off of his boss, so he hatches up a cunning plan to sell La Noscean wheat to nobles in Radz-at-Han in Thavnair and tell them that all the other nobles said it was the best tasting wheat ever, even though Radz-at-Han already imports all of their Sunset Wheat from Ul'dah.

 

 

In regards to the guilds and their lore, even though many things have changed (there's no denying that!) there's no evidence presented that negates anything that was originally presented to us in 1.0. Things have changed... because of new leadership, the passage of five years, and a calamitous event, but the lore team has gone to great lengths to show that things in 1.0 didn't just... not happen.

 

Take the original Gladiator storyline for example: the tale of J'moldva the Hellfire Phoenix, the champion for Ala Mhigo fighting to fund the Resistance and keep her people from starvation... versus Greinfarr the Great, Champion of Ul'dah and son to the Syndicate's Fyrgeiss. While 2.0's own class quests never reference the two greatest gladiators in Coliseum history, they both appear in the ARM 50 quest and J'moldva is further referenced in fishing lore:

 

This Ala Mhigan fighting fish has never known defeat, and for this remarkable feat folk have named it for the celebrated gladiator.

 

The High Priest of the Order of Nald'thal Mumuepo appears in Halatali HM and in the moogle quest Prelate and Plot, serving out his sentence as a Noxius. And even though the mechanics of the magic have changed, when you ask the current leaders of the THM Guild about Thaumaturgy, they never mention elements, only death - as Franz points out.

 

As for the Conjurer's Elemental Wheel? Well, in 1.0, the only way we knew how the Elemental Wheel worked was because there were a set of Dusty Tomes in Stillglade Fane titled Essences and Permutations: A Treatise of the Elements. This same tome has now appeared once in 2.0's Greatest Stories Never Told and 3.0's Gubal Library. So clearly the lore team is still bitter about the battle team making them change conjurer abilities.

 

Chapter I - The Six Nativities & Myriad Creation

 

The spark of Lightning ignites when it strikes, and thus Fire is born.

The heat of Fire renders to ash all that it touches, and thus earth is born.

The density of Earth shuns Sun and harbors cold, and thus Ice is born.

The armor of Ice melts away, and thus water is born.

The moistness of Water mists and rises, and thus Wind is born.

The gusts and sighs of Wind gather the clouds, and thus Lightning is born.

 

Chapter II - The Three Conquests, Boundless and Unwavering

 

Earth grounds Lightning.

Water erodes Earth.

Lightning boils Water.

 

Chapter III - The Three Submissions, Timeless and Unending

 

Fire is extinguished by Wind.

Ice is melted by Fire.

Wind is obstructed by Ice.

 

Chapter IV - Dynamic Opposites & the Bifurcation of Polarity

 

The six elements are manifest in all things great and small, and their polarity deriveth from the Astral heavens above and the Umbral depths below.

 

And yes, you needed to know what order the Elements flowed so you could maximize the order in which you put up your Elemental dots and ancient magicks. At this point in time, Elemental resistances were still a thing.

 

 

I could seriously keep pulling up more examples like these. Aerghaemr, Halfstone's Founder. Warburton's missing journal that Minfilia's adopted mother F'lhamin kept all these years because her lover, Niellefresne, was killed over what information it held. Dunstan have a watchpost named in his honor. The fact that Mimidoa remembers your 1.0 journey to silence the "sirens" as part of the BSM questline. The fact that the only reason we know Merlwyb rose to power in 1562 and that Raubahn Aldynn bought the Coliseum from a man named Rychard in 1571 is from 1.0 lore. The fact that the Ascians have been trying to get their hands on Tupismati, or a key like it, since 1.0 beta - and that moment you realize the stone tablet from Seal Rock and Corguvais' horn make up that key.

 

 

 

 

But I'm sleepy. So I'll just say that any player who puts in the effort and research to understanding the background and subtleties of the profession behind the class they wish to RP as (performing the duties of one of the Order of Nald'thal instead of just being a mage who throws fireballs) should not be deterred from doing so. Especially with terrible reasonings such as not everyone played 1.0 or incorrect ones such as alleged lore retcon of the class.

[CrimsonMars]

Apparently you can't quote yourself?  

 

"I don't mind stuff that is BELIEVABLE that is not on your hotbar"

 

That is the case and point

 

"Cast from HP" is a trope. Hell, what's that Vita game that's entirely about sacrificing body parts and things for power and spells? It's not unheard of, so someone doing it here isn't too far of a stretch.

 

Soul Sacrifice.