White Egyptians

[Oli!]

_0VDveYwbuU

 

Not this shit again.

[Dat Oni]

Congratulations, you've now seen the movie without the unnecessary padding and chased romance subplot that will be present in the actual theatrical release.

[LiadansWhisper]

But it has Jaime Lannister!!!!

 

...I thought Egyptians were brown, tho. :dodgy:

[Shoshopu]

ugh, another white Egypt movie

 

At least it's not Yet Another Retelling of the Ten Commandments. While The Prince of Egypt exists there's literally no reason to make another movie about the ten commandments

[LiadansWhisper]

ugh, another white Egypt movie

 

At least it's not Yet Another Retelling of the Ten Commandments. While The Prince of Egypt exists there's literally no reason to make another movie about the ten commandments

 

I love the Prince Of Egypt so much.

 

...sometimes I break into song from the movie.

[Oli!]

While The Prince of Egypt exists there's literally no reason to make another movie about the ten commandments

 

Interesting funfact:

 

Everything is better when animated.

[Ozma]

When I was little I remember looking at the pictures on the bible and used to strongly believed that Jesus was white.

[Seriphyn]

White Egyptians? I thought this thread was going to be about Miqo'te Ishgardians.

 

Trolololol.

[Faye]

[6:46:40 PM] Val:

[6:46:46 PM] Val: welp this could be the shittiest thing ever but I'll watch it

[7:21:01 PM] Destiny (Faye): There are an awful lot of white people in Egypt lol

 

Actual conversation from this evening.

[Lady Whiteraven]

<-- Has degree with a focus on Egyptology. Where do I even begin . . .

[Dravus]

Intriguing. I may keep an eye out for it when it's released - if only to see Nikolaj Coster-Waldau in action.

[Oli!]

<-- Has degree with a focus on Egyptology.  Where do I even begin . . .

 

Tell us about the white people

[Dravus]

I get the impression that the movie is going for the heroic pseudo-mythical angle rather than anything that's historically accurate. Which is perfectly fine - it'll likely do fairly well for itself and as with so many things if someone happens to dislike it they can just avoid going to see it.

[Oli!]

I get the impression that the movie is going for the heroic pseudo-mythical angle rather than anything that's historically accurate. Which is perfectly fine - it'll likely do fairly well for itself and as with so many things if someone happens to dislike it they can just avoid going to see it.

 

So a movie about Norsemen and Vikings punching their way through Valhalla and fighting with Valkyries and riding Hresvelgr with a cast of nothing but black people with Bostonian accents wouldn't be weird to you then.

 

Because that's what this is.

[LiadansWhisper]

But, Oli...it has Jamie Lannister...

 

[Oli!]

But, Oli...it has Jamie Lannister...

 

 

More like Jamie Lameister!!!!!

[LiadansWhisper]

But, Oli...it has Jamie Lannister...

 

 

More like Jamie Lameister!!!!!

 

God you're such a hater!

[Dravus]

I get the impression that the movie is going for the heroic pseudo-mythical angle rather than anything that's historically accurate. Which is perfectly fine - it'll likely do fairly well for itself and as with so many things if someone happens to dislike it they can just avoid going to see it.

 

So a movie about Norsemen and Vikings punching their way through Valhalla and fighting with Valkyries and riding Hresvelgr with a cast of nothing but black people with Bostonian accents wouldn't be weird to you then.

 

Because that's what this is.

 

Would I find that weird? Sure. That's a bit more extreme than what's going on in the trailer for the movie though.

[Oli!]

I get the impression that the movie is going for the heroic pseudo-mythical angle rather than anything that's historically accurate. Which is perfectly fine - it'll likely do fairly well for itself and as with so many things if someone happens to dislike it they can just avoid going to see it.

 

So a movie about Norsemen and Vikings punching their way through Valhalla and fighting with Valkyries and riding Hresvelgr with a cast of nothing but black people with Bostonian accents wouldn't be weird to you then.

 

Because that's what this is.

 

Would I find that weird? Sure. That's a bit more extreme than what's going on in the trailer for the movie though.

 

Not really?

 

I don't see how one is more extreme than the other, they're perfectly parallel examples.

 

People with little to no ethnic connection to the culture and location used as the backdrop for the film are cast in the entirety of its important roles and most others, to the point where the actual races that have a tie to that location and mythology have virtually no presence, while speaking with out-of-place accents.

 

That's both this film and the theoretical Black Norsemen film I have presented, to the letter.

[Dravus]

It's also possible that some people are reading into it a little too much. The movie is being created to appeal to a general audience. Has stuff been watered down? Definitely! Though that isn't necessarily a bad thing. Again, it isn't trying to be anything other than an action movie with some loose connections to Egyptian mythology.

 

It's also hard to discuss this sort of thing in-depth because, ultimately, this is a site devoted to FFXIV and role-play. Complex socio-political issues are often tricky to debate because there's a lot of people with different opinions who come from completely different backgrounds and boast conflicting views.

 

There's countless examples of games, books and movies putting a creative spin on existing mythology and historical matters. Sometimes they reflect it as closely as possible. Other times liberties are taken - which, again, isn't necessarily a bad thing.

 

The movie will make some people cringe. Many others, however, will likely enjoy it.

[Oli!]

It's also possible that some people are reading into it a little too much. The movie is being created to appeal to a general audience. Has stuff been watered down? Definitely! Though that isn't necessarily a bad thing. Again, it isn't trying to be anything other than an action movie with some loose connections to Egyptian mythology.

 

It's also hard to discuss this sort of thing in-depth because, ultimately, this is a site devoted to FFXIV and role-play. Complex socio-political issues are often tricky to debate because there's a lot of people with different opinions who come from completely different backgrounds and boast conflicting views.

 

There's countless examples of games, books and movies putting a creative spin on existing mythology and historical matters. Sometimes they reflect it as closely as possible. Other times liberties are taken - which, again, isn't necessarily a bad thing.

 

The movie will make some people cringe. Many others, however, will likely enjoy it.

 

It's not that tricky to debate, because we're actually doing it right now. Are people reading into it too much? That depends on who you ask. However, it's worth noting that the so-called "whitewashing" in Egypt is something that has been going on for decades, and is so effective that people think that this is what people in Egypt actually looked like. In fact, when my mother and her generation were growing up in the 50s and the 60s, they were literally being taught that Egypt was technically part of Europe because it bordered the Mediterranean.

 

So Egypt in particular has a very long history of being forcefully tied to Caucasian Civilization. The more that this is perpetuated, the more people are going to believe it, and the longer that they're going to believe it. So believe it or not, it actually is a serious issue to a great deal of people, especially those that have an ethnic tie to that civilization, or who study it profusely. To put it into perspective, people are being told that the greatest culture in their ethnicity (save for perhaps Mali, though no one really learns about that empire anyway) isn't even theirs. It would be like someone saying for decades that "oh, that Roman empire? Naaaah man, that wasn't a European empire, that was us Native Americans! We built that, dude. Now go home and drink some Ovaltine, bud."

 

To my knowledge, there is no other instance of the repeated erasure of a civilization in such a way, which is why this is an important issue. In fact, it could even be argued that the fact that you saw less of a problem with the "racial replacement" of one culture in a movie than with Egypt in the same circumstance is a testament to exactly how effective this is been (but it may also be confused for a personal attack, so I won't make it). This is something that's not only been done in movies, but in historical documentaries, textbooks, comics, and many, many other things.

 

 

It's a problem. And it's certainly not "watering down."

 

I personally challenge you to find an example of a game, book, or movie putting a creative spin on existing mythology or historical matters that takes extensive liberty with the replacing of a race by another that is not Caucasian. Single-person examples don't count; I want at least half a cast.

 

 

 

As an afterthought, it's also worth noting that more and more movies these days make most of their bank from the International box office, so I'm not sure how much credence the idea of "pandering to a wide audience" really has.

[Hyakki]

<-- Has degree with a focus on Egyptology.  Where do I even begin . . .

 

Tell us about the white people

 

Ptolemaic dynasty????????

Romans????????????????

 

Though I suspect Mediterranean white does not count as white in this argument. (also not really relevant to the movie's setting, that trailer was a hot mess)

 

People with little to no ethnic connection to the culture and location used as the backdrop for the film are cast in the entirety of its important roles and most others, to the point where the actual races that have a tie to that location and mythology have virtually no presence, while speaking with out-of-place accents.

 

That's both this film and the theoretical Black Norsemen film I have presented, to the letter.

 

The best you'll get is Egyptian nationals speaking Egyptian Arabic which is no more accurate to the film's setting than white actors speaking English. (Not that there's much of a setting. The plot seems to have little to nothing to do with ancient Egyptian mythology. The only thing "Egyptian" about the film is the aesthetic, but even that is an inaccurate mashup of time periods and artistic liberties)

 

Did you hate The Odyssey for having a non-Greek cast that spoke with British accents? If so, I will fight you :ahriman:

 

Ultimately, I don't know what's going on it's 2 am and I've been up well over 24 hours. I'm in agreement that the movie's pretty awful (especially the gratuitous abuse of cgi). If you want accuracy, go watch a documentary, read books or build a time machine or something idfk.

 

EDIT: edits galore I'm gone now, have fun Oli.

[Oli!]

 

 

Ptolemaic dynasty????????

Romans????????????????

 

...Were not from Denmark or Scotland, and also looked nothing like the people in this movie from the art we have, historically. They actually hated the guts of those groups and thought they were a bunch of savages.

 

Not to mention that as I said, these people have little to no connection to the mythology of the film; even if it were set during the rule of the first group or the occupation of the second, it must be noted that these people would not have been present in such large numbers as to entirely supplant the existing population to the point where there are no colored people. So I can't buy this as an explanation.

 

And that's all without touching the fact that these people are playing the gods of this culture. A culture of colored people.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The best you'll get is Egyptian nationals speaking Egyptian Arabic which is no more accurate to the film's setting than white actors speaking English.

 

Did you hate The Odyssey for having a non-Greek cast that spoke with British accents? If so, I will fight you :ahriman:

 

The best I'll get is a cast of people that are of the approximate race, visually (they don't even have to be, just at least make them look like it), that existed in that region at that time. What they looked like is not some sort of mystery, as there is plenty of sculpture and artwork that gives us a good idea; they were people of all skin-tones.

 

There's also like a billion adaptations of the Odyssey so I have no idea which one you mean (though I also haven't seen any, so I guess it doesn't matter). I'd also argue that Greece and its culture doesn't have nearly as much of a problem with cultural supplanting as Egypt does.

[Hyakki]

There's also like a billion adaptations of the Odyssey so I have no idea which one you mean (though I also haven't seen any, so I guess it doesn't matter). I'd also argue that Greece and its culture doesn't have nearly as much of a problem with cultural supplanting as Egypt does.

 

The 1997 film with Armand Assante. It's very good and apparently the go-to film for substitute teacher days 8-).

 

Also I went back and added onto my original post because I don't like to multi post when it's just tiny additions. The short of it is, you can change the cast and the film would still be awful. Become a producer and give us the historically-accurate film we deserve.

[Oli!]

There's also like a billion adaptations of the Odyssey so I have no idea which one you mean (though I also haven't seen any, so I guess it doesn't matter). I'd also argue that Greece and its culture doesn't have nearly as much of a problem with cultural supplanting as Egypt does.

 

The 1997 film with Armand Assante. It's very good and apparently the go-to film for substitute teacher days 8-).

 

Also I went back and added onto my original post because I don't like to multi post when it's just tiny additions. The short of it is, you can change the cast and the film would still be awful. Become a producer and give us the historically-accurate film we deserve.

 

It doesn't even have to be historically accurate, I just want people that are billed to be from a place / culture to look like they are from that place and / or belong to that culture. I don't really care about the actual history, and I think the aesthetic actually looks great. It's just that the cast they chose does a disservice by perpetuating a widely believed and damaging inaccuracy about this culture.

 

Also, it's more than just the aesthetic and the names used; Set vs. Horus for the Throne of Everything is an actual Egyptian myth, complete with eye-gouging. This movie is comparable to a retelling of the Odyssey, in fact.