discussion Why FFXIV's rape themes fall monumentally flat

[Faye]

I'm confused. YMMV on whether you think rape and sexual abuse should ever be involved in storytelling and how it should be handled. But the "problem" seems to be that it's here but not.... edgy enough? That women in XIV aren't treated badly enough?

 

"1) Women are institutionally equal to men in the world of FFXIV."

 

As Meishali, ZOMGodzilla, and others have pointed out, there is still sexism in Eorzea. Institutionalized sexism? Maybe not--not in the sense that it's written into laws or that unequal rights are legally granted. But systems can be corrupt in other ways, and institutionalized sexism does not make social sexism and individual sexists disappear. Rape exists outside of sexism. Sexism obviously raises the rates, but even in reality, men are often victims of sexual abuse and rape despite "the patriarchy" (granted that's often because the same sexism applied to women is also harmful for men). There will probably always be sickos looking to get off or to assert their dominance over another person, even in a reality free of sexism.

 

"2) Rape is facilitated by men possessing near-exclusive control of the means to apply physical violence."

 

Not every person in Eorzea is a soldier or an adventurer. Many are physically weak. The male counterparts of each race are all taller and larger than the female, in some instances even the max height female still falling short of a minimum height male (Au Ra obviously being the biggest example of this). They've got more size and muscle on their side (though maybe this doesn't mean anything in the XIV verse where Lalafell are on an even playing field with Roegadyn) so people can still very easily fall prey to physical attacks, not to mention, not every attack need be physical. IRL, most rapes aren't a stranger pouncing you in an alleyway, most are date rapes, and often don't involve physical struggle. Social force is often used instead. Threats to terminate the relationship or release some sort of blackmail or start rumors, threats to kick a woman out and leave her financially unstable without access to her children, general guilt-tripping and tearing someone down until they give in, intimidating a woman into compliance with physical threats that aren't actually (and maybe couldn't be) carried out, etc.

 

"3) FFXIV exists in a historical and social state that is not completely analogous to our own."

 

And in our own world, one in three women experiences some form of sexual or physical abuse in her lifetime. Sometimes carried out by other women. Sometimes with other women willfully turning a blind eye, or even assisting. There are numerous cases of pedophiles and kidnappers with wives and girlfriends who knew, or who even helped them in their crimes. Women can still be complicit in terrible things. It's a nice thought that women should stick together... but shouldn't we all? A woman shouldn't find rape any more abhorrent than a man, and yet there's no question of why a male soldier wouldn't step in or refrain. I wouldn't assume there's no women committing these same crimes against men just because we don't see them--though we do indeed see a hint of it, at the female pirate bar in Limsa Lominsa.

 

"4) The only time gender relations in FFXIV are addressed is with crude allusions to rape."

 

There are numerous male NPC's in the game trying to solicit sex from female NPC's, often with degrading or colorful speech. "Whoreson" and "bastard" are favored insults. Every single sex worker in the game (even the most tame example of the dancers) is a woman.

 

"5) Regardless of fan explanations, the unquestionable and unflinching equality of women in the world of FFXIV (outside of rape) makes the universe so alien to our own that it will be near-impossible to fully comprehend its social dynamics."

 

No.

 

 

 

Thinking that employing rape in a storyline should be off limits, or at least handled in certain ways, is perfectly valid and respectable. But I think it's harmful to a) insist that there is no sexism in Eorzea when there is indeed evidence of it; it's far too reminiscent of people who do the same in real life, and b) perpetuate the stereotype that rape is always a physically violent affair and always the product of men being stronger than women, thus implying even if unintentionally that date rape and the like are "not real rape." And maybe I'm assuming incorrectly, but it seems like that's what's rubbing most people the wrong way rather than the opinions of rape as a story element, as a good chunk of the playerbase I've heard from are wholly against it or want to see it handled in very specific ways.

[Mystery Mitch]

I'm being narcissistically presumptuous in thinking anyone actually wants to see this nonsense, but hey, maybe it's no different from expecting someone to read a wall of text. Anyway, last one, I think.

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xeDnpfv8Jc

 

 

 

I'm not sure I'd call this 'drama', just people sharing opinions on a thread, which is a platform for sharing opinions.

[Nako Vesh]

I'm being narcissistically presumptuous in thinking anyone actually wants to see this nonsense, but hey, maybe it's no different from expecting someone to read a wall of text. Anyway, last one, I think.

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xeDnpfv8Jc

 

 

 

I see you got to my post but didn't respond to anything in it? lol BTW, none of what I said here has been with vitriol. I think I've only approached anything close to vitriol a couple of times on these forums, and it's never been directed at you. With you, I just get a little exasperated, which until recently I thought was entirely intentional. lol Although maybe it is. We may never know.

 

I think you come at these threads from a perspective many here don't share. You seem to revere this Reddit-style "dispassionate debate," and I think a lot of people here reject that fundamentally. Also, you have a history on these forums, and a reputation, as you seem to know. I hope? People see one of your threads and... well, rightfully expect a sensational topic.

 

Semi-off topic, but you talked about assuming everyone on this forum would be left of center, and you seem to include yourself in that? Heh, I must say I assumed from past posts you were far, far right of center. It could just be that I'm leftleftleftleftsuperleft soooo everything seems right leaning to me.

[Altitis Acquired]

I'm not sure what the intention was with this thread...

 

OP posts how he's experienced the theme of "rape" is handled in the game.

 

And then alot of people prove him wrong with posting examples of how it actually is in-game.

 

And yet, OP clings on to his views instead of accepting it, and calls it "drama"...

 

But... why though?

 

I love to learn about the world of Eorzea, and so many awesome people on here knows about all this stuff and can provide sources on the info. I think it's amazing that there are people who are willing to dedicate their time on this and educate those, such as me, who don't know these things, but are willing to learn and find it interesting and fascinating.

 

So why wave it off, just because it doesn't coincide what you initially thought was right?

It's alright to admit that you were wrong and change your point of view.

 

We're here to discuss topics and learn from them, right?

[Orlog]

I'm being narcissistically presumptuous in thinking anyone actually wants to see this nonsense, but hey, maybe it's no different from expecting someone to read a wall of text. Anyway, last one, I think.

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xeDnpfv8Jc

 

 

Hi there! I'm just kind of passively watching this thread, but something came up that got me kind of curious: Why make a post about something if you're only expecting to find an echo chamber/have people give you a gold star (via rep points) for having like minded opinions?

 

I thought the point in a lot of these discussions were to hear different view points? That this was the main draw for communicating with people?

[Grott]

I'm being narcissistically presumptuous in thinking anyone actually wants to see this nonsense, but hey, maybe it's no different from expecting someone to read a wall of text. Anyway, last one, I think.

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xeDnpfv8Jc

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm just... I'm confused af here.

 

First, I just have to get one thing out of the way. This is going way off-topic admittedly (I'll get back on topic soon), but around 2:40, "Would it help if I say I'm not in the military?" 

 

So, whoever said "Don't shout about e-rape in uniform, especially while driving, and put it on youtube" (paraphrasing) is absolutely right, and I know you've gone to the briefings about things you don't say in uniform on the internet, and it's mostly just everything. Also, it wouldn't help if you say you're not in the military, because you had the gall to film in uniform with your name tag showing, [removed by moderator]. I'd recognize the ABUs and the cheap $9 BX haircut from a mile away. You also filmed your troll reaction vid in your general issue sand t-shirt. So you're either in the military, or, even more frustrating, you're just roleplaying the life of someone who's in the military IRL  (and going to work in an Air Force uniform as you stated at the beginning of your second video...?), which afaik is illegal. Also, get off ffxiv-roleplayers.com at work. Seriously, it'd take about 15 minutes for me to use some clues from your GPS and your surroundings in that video to find out what base you work on. This is highly unprofessional. You're not the only military member that RPs in FFXIV and I will call you out on it. Don't record in uniform.

 

Now that that's out of the way:

 

Your entire argument is insulting because you're blaming Square Enix for "using rape to make their game more edgy" when you just made a video where you admit (ugh. In uniform.) that you started a thread about rape to get free gold stars from the RPC because they'd naturally agree with you that rape is bad. How do you not think that's worse? 

 

This thread is either an obvious troll, or disgustingly misguided.

 

Please leave.

[LiadansWhisper]

In seriousness, Kale, you need to pull those videos down. Your name, rank, and branch of the military being out on the internet is a bad idea.

[Seriphyn]

Right, so, pulled the videos since they're not worth the drama they unintentionally created. Nonetheless, feel free to PM me the AFI that governs those videos, because it's not at all uncommon to make videos as such, especially ones based around humour. But yeah, stolen valour armchair activists I suppose?

 

Honestly, honestly surprised how this went down, but my mistake.

[LiadansWhisper]

Right, so, pulled the videos since they're not worth the drama they unintentionally created. Nonetheless, feel free to PM me the AFI that governs those videos, because it's not at all uncommon to make videos as such, especially ones based around humour. But yeah, stolen valour armchair activists I suppose?

 

Honestly, honestly surprised how this went down, but my mistake.

 

Stolen valor? What?

 

Serious question, what the hell have you been smoking?

[Nako Vesh]

... especially ones based around humour. 

 

Alright, so you were trolling. Muh bad for giving the benefit of the doubt! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Seriphyn]

Right, so, pulled the videos since they're not worth the drama they unintentionally created. Nonetheless, feel free to PM me the AFI that governs those videos, because it's not at all uncommon to make videos as such, especially ones based around humour. But yeah, stolen valour armchair activists I suppose?

 

Honestly, honestly surprised how this went down, but my mistake.

 

Stolen valor?  What?

 

Serious question, what the hell have you been smoking?

 

Read the post by Uther.

 

... especially ones based around humour. 

 

Alright, so you were trolling. Muh bad for giving the benefit of the doubt! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

No, talking about videos on social media by service members that are about military humour. Nothing to do with mine.

[Grott]

Right, so, pulled the videos since they're not worth the drama they unintentionally created. Nonetheless, feel free to PM me the AFI that governs those videos, because it's not at all uncommon to make videos as such, especially ones based around humour. But yeah, stolen valour armchair activists I suppose?

 

Honestly, honestly surprised how this went down, but my mistake.

 

 

As long as you took it down, I don't care what you call me. I'm not going to derail this entire conversation to tell you how the military works. Look up the AFI yourself. Idk why you're relying on a vaguely implied military-affiliated stranger from the internet to tell you what is and isn't in regs.

 

But back on topic:

 

So we've discovered through some weird means that this entire thread was an excuse to shower yourself in rep points and then, later, an admitted troll. I'm no mod, but I don't think rape is really a great hot-button issue to milk for rep points or humor, even in a fictional setting. Reading back through the posts, a few people seemed to have personal reactions to this. So maybe in the future, let's keep our forum posts free of that kind of "humor." 

 

Assuming you were joking in a weird way about the echo chamber or the "this is for humor" line, I'll leave the thread and let the conversation continue, but I think everyone's pretty tired of this.

[Teadrinker]

/modhat

 

This thread has run it's course.

/modhat