discussion Some Mateus Observations

[Unnamed Mercenary]

Staff were in talk with Momo about the title. Let's all just agree to place nice about what it is now.

 

Also coming out of left field, This : http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=19379

 

I don't know if everyone has seen this, but it is right up there in announcements. I hope the plans are still in motion because I think it is something we need and what I truly want to see. I don't like the idea of us splintering off too much or isolating ourselves too much into separate communities especially now and I think this RPC has done a lot to try and address that, even making improvements. No single rp server is going to be the same and giving new players a 'shopping zone' in the future(when Balmung and Gilgamesh eventually open up) for something that fits them might go a long way to forming a more cohesive community. We may not all be on the same server but at least we are all on the 'same page' *insert pun beating here*

 

[sticks on the staff hat for a moment]

 

Those changes are still planned! We're still waiting for IPS 4.2 because it has some features we really want, like "clubs" and better integration. I plan to then get us the Advanced tags and Prefixes plugin and maybe the Discord plugin because that's a trendy thing right now.

 

Tags and prefixes should make not-Balmung stuff a LOT easier to track. (And we apprently get filtering, but I have to figure that out).

 

Normally, I'd do the wiki upgrades right away, but not stated in that announcement is we'll also be adjusting some server hosting. Depending on if we're rebuilding our server image or if we copy the existing one, there's some backend software that needs to be updated before we can proceed. And then a LOT of converting. Before we do any of that though, there will be more announcements on when a "RPC Final Save" will happen, which will be the data we carry over. Most of the forums here will then go read-only as we get the new stuff ready. (We'll keep discussion things open until the new site's live, then the MyBB instance will be purely read-only so any data that didn't get converted is still accessible).

 

Lots of lifting planned!

 

[removes staff hat]

[Shion]

I was online (but not involved) when the RPM linkshell was having a heated discussion about this earlier today, and as he says foxfirestorm quickly put an end to it, as was right of him to do. Though I haven't seen any of that talk aside from today, but I'm not on either Discord server so I can't comment on those.

 

That said I don't think it's entirely unwarranted for some of the people who were on Mateus from the start to be put off by the influx of players and sudden changes happening to their server. I'm not saying to just let bashing another server go or anything, but do look at it from their perspective: a small tight-knight community, which may have been the reason they chose Mateus in the first place, has suddenly grown so much in the last few weeks. I mean I definitely don't like change, so I can imagine how they feel. Not that it excuses being an ass.

 

It's still a new situation Mateus is going through, there's going to be growing pains. Now those growing pains will need to be actively handled (which they are!) and not just "Oh we'll sit back and let it work itself out", but we all knew, or should've known, that they were coming.

[Erah'sae]

Hey foxfirestorm, speaking of the Mateus discord and what not.  Can you make sure it's not either of the official discord groups that occasionally invites the Balmung RP Event Bot, spams balmung hate at it and then kicks it?  The server name has Mateus RP Hub in it, but I don't know if it's yours or someone spoofing it for giggles.

 

I'm going to probably start blacklisting the internal discord user and server ID's soon and turning over the internal logs to Discord's abuse line, so the problem will solve itself.  But on the off chance things really take off, and I turn it into a multi-server bot, I'd hate to see these... users... cause problems for everyone else.

 

Edit: Just for clarifications: the bot's internal logs store everything by discord's internal ID's (which is how the bot sees the servers anyway, not hte names). There's no way for people to actually successfully spoof anything or get anyone else in trouble with this.

[Koti Nexus]

Hey foxfirestorm, speaking of the Mateus discord and what not.  Can you make sure it's not either of the official discord groups that occasionally invites the Balmung RP Event Bot, spams balmung hate at it and then kicks it?  The server name has Mateus RP Hub in it, but I don't know if it's yours or someone spoofing it for giggles.

 

I'm going to probably start blacklisting the internal discord user and server ID's soon and turning over the internal logs to Discord's abuse line, so the problem will solve itself.  But on the off chance things really take off, and I turn it into a multi-server bot, I'd hate to see these... users... cause problems for everyone else.

 

Edit: Just for clarifications: the bot's internal logs store everything by discord's internal ID's (which is how the bot sees the servers anyway, not hte names).  There's no way for people to actually successfully spoof anything or get anyone else in trouble with this.

 

To be honest I have 0 clue how bots work. The one installed on the RPM was setup by Rhys (one of my mods) but it does simple greets, I know on her HUB she has two bots one that does greets and the other that allows for people to connect their characters to some commands.

 

If you can track down where this is coming from or PM me instructions on how to check, I can look into it myself. I have also further thoughts on this, but I'll keep those to private, but please, PM instructions and I'll look into it if I can.

 

That said, I have 0 control or lead on the HUB, I only have control of the RPM and even then... I am probably going to be stepping down sometime in July. Been at this for nearly a year... Kinda tired.

[Eses Fafa]

I suppose this is coming at a point already way too late and I'm sure I missed this somewhere but..why Mateus? The place is already an inhospitable den of toxicity that people usually want to leave. What made people want to try and make it a new RP server?

[Tyndles]

I suppose this is coming at a point already way too late and I'm sure I missed this somewhere but..why Mateus? The place is already an inhospitable den of toxicity that people usually want to leave. What made people want to try and make it a new RP server?

 

That's what most people on this site want. I havent heard anything bad about Mateus, to be honest, though I haven't seen anything bad in my (albeit limited) time there.

[Eses Fafa]

I suppose this is coming at a point already way too late and I'm sure I missed this somewhere but..why Mateus? The place is already an inhospitable den of toxicity that people usually want to leave. What made people want to try and make it a new RP server?

 

That's what most people on this site want.  I havent heard anything bad about Mateus, to be honest, though I haven't seen anything bad in my (albeit limited) time there.

I probably should've said something a lot more verbal about this before but..I can name a lotta friends of mine who came from Mateus to get away from the inhabitants and saw Balmung as just a 'good option' when looking at the server transfer list at the time.

 

This sort of hostility towards people from Balmung isn't surprising to me at all, since if it happened literally any other server, there would be much better treatment. Well..except maybe Moogle or Zodiark..which is primarily French..or Exodus which is filled with e-peen-stroking PvE elitists who ragequit when getting hit by one AoE with a keyboard through the monitor.

 

Anyhow, I'm actually wondering what made Mateus even stand out or seem like a good idea as opposed to more willing servers like Siren, Goblin or Cactuar.

[ArmachiA]

Mateus actually came to us and pitched to us as soon as Balmung was locked down, that spread around and people were comfortable using it as a viable option because it seemed like the server actually wanted Balmung players there. The other servers didn't pitch or say Balmung players were welcome, so they sort of went to the background. That's how these things work really, I remember the HEAVY PITCHING that went into people wanting Besaid (I wanted Rabanastre damnit!)

 

Also YMMV here, I have someone in my guild from Diablo who absolutely hated the community there. Same with Faerie. People have different experiences.

[Eses Fafa]

That's so weird...and very out of nowhere! If any were to take such a role, it'd be Siren, wouldn't it?

[Melkire]

Anyhow, I'm actually wondering what made Mateus even stand out or seem like a good idea as opposed to more willing servers like Siren, Goblin or Cactuar.

 

I haven't been involved in any way, shape, or form so take this with a grain of salt, but from what I've heard it came down to a matter of "advertising in the right place at the right time". Which is not to say that other servers aren't advertising: I've seen ads from both Jenova and Faerie elsewhere (and I know they've threads here on RPC), and they seem to be doing well for themselves. That said, folks from Mateus were quick to take advantage (as they should!) of Balmung's closure.

 

Now, mind you, the RP communities of FFXIV are not the only ones grappling with server closure. Gilgamesh is shuttered as well, and they are more or less the PvE hotspot. The difference with them is that you won't find much success in the way of an organized effort from PvE fans to situate large clusters of themselves on the same server. Word of mouth is how they learn where to go and where NOT to go, and I suspect we'll be seeing the same thing happen with roleplayers. It's saddening to hear of toxicity and tension -- much of it very similar to the early growing pains of the RPC itself with the whole Balmung-Gilgamesh debacle -- but in the end it'll play out such that people will end up where they want to be, with the exception of the now-closed servers.

 

As for other servers... everyone I've ever met from Goblin or Sargatanas via Duty Finder has been a complete sweetheart. But yes, Jenova, Faerie, and Siren are other alternatives to Balmung.

[ArmachiA]

It was really fast, so most of the RP Community had to make a decision where to tell people to go relatively quickly. I can see why most people went with the one that spoke out the loudest, even if Siren and/or Faerie were "better" alternatives.

 

THAT BEING SAID, I hear Mateus is getting a lot of people, and only having Mateus as a fall back will eventually land us with the same problem Balmung has, especially when Transfers and it's incentives will be available for us NA folk. I see no reason why other servers shouldn't gather their folk when transfers become available and come and pitch to the community either. We're going to need other alternatives besides "Mateus or Balmung" especially since it's going to be "Only Mateus" for awhile.

 

People want to feel comfortable and welcomed to go somewhere, it's those RP communities on those servers responsibility to do that. It sucks but it's true. Be loud.

[Eses Fafa]

Anyhow, I'm actually wondering what made Mateus even stand out or seem like a good idea as opposed to more willing servers like Siren, Goblin or Cactuar.

 

I haven't been involved in any way, shape, or form so take this with a grain of salt, but from what I've heard it came down to a matter of "advertising in the right place at the right time". Which is not to say that other servers aren't advertising: I've seen ads from both Jenova and Faerie elsewhere (and I know they've threads here on RPC), and they seem to be doing well for themselves. That said, folks from Mateus were quick to take advantage (as they should!) of Balmung's closure.

 

Now, mind you, the RP communities of FFXIV are not the only ones grappling with server closure. Gilgamesh is shuttered as well, and they are more or less the PvE hotspot. The difference with them is that you won't find much success in the way of an organized effort from PvE fans to situate large clusters of themselves on the same server. Word of mouth is how they learn where to go and where NOT to go, and I suspect we'll be seeing the same thing happen with roleplayers. It's saddening to hear of toxicity and tension -- much of it very similar to the early growing pains of the RPC itself with the whole Balmung-Gilgamesh debacle -- but in the end it'll play out such that people will end up where they want to be, with the exception of the now-closed servers.

 

As for other servers... everyone I've ever met from Goblin or Sargantas via Duty Finder has been a complete sweetheart. But yes, Jenova, Faerie, and Siren are other alternatives to Balmung.

Nah, it's fine. I don't have anything against folks who want to do something for those who prefer not to deal with Balmung. I just find it quite unfortunate that this exact situation occurred. Not just the fact of all this splintering, but that it has to be Mateus of all places.

[ArmachiA]

Though your friends have bad experiences, a lot more people are moving to that server and therefore will change the culture completely. It won't even be recognizable to the Mateus they knew (Which is why some people don't like people the fact people are moving there btw). Give it a chance to find it's identity.

[Mercer]

I suppose this is coming at a point already way too late and I'm sure I missed this somewhere but..why Mateus? The place is already an inhospitable den of toxicity that people usually want to leave. What made people want to try and make it a new RP server?

 

That's what most people on this site want.  I havent heard anything bad about Mateus, to be honest, though I haven't seen anything bad in my (albeit limited) time there.

I probably should've said something a lot more verbal about this before but..I can name a lotta friends of mine who came from Mateus to get away from the inhabitants and saw Balmung as just a 'good option' when looking at the server transfer list at the time.

 

This sort of hostility towards people from Balmung isn't surprising to me at all, since if it happened literally any other server, there would be much better treatment. Well..except maybe Moogle or Zodiark..which is primarily French..or Exodus which is filled with e-peen-stroking PvE elitists who ragequit when getting hit by one AoE with a keyboard through the monitor.

 

Anyhow, I'm actually wondering what made Mateus even stand out or seem like a good idea as opposed to more willing servers like Siren, Goblin or Cactuar.

 

So, from what I've seen in the few threads I've run on the issue, Mateus gained a strong following for 3 reasons:

 

1) It's very small. The current issue facing Balmung/Gilgamesh is wholly a problem of size. I won't go into the full math here, as I've done another post detailing it. In short, Balmung has three times the desired server population that SE wants. Of the servers mentioned here, Sargantanas, Jenova and Cactuar are close to the same population limits (Around 7,500 active player) so if a sizable number of RPers transfered to them, it would put them in the same situation that Balmung/Gilgamesh are in now.

 

Given Mateus is the smallest populated server in the game, it's also nearly gauranteed to be on the free transfer list off of Balmung. There are a lot of incentives for this transfer (Free Gil and a XP bonus that we know of, likely more.)

 

2) Active RP community. When Balmung first closed, Mateus and foxfirestorm specifically really helped advertise Mateus as a viable alternative. That there was already an active and healthy RP population despite it's small server population. This information spread on Reddit and Tumblr as well. Over the first week or two of the closure, other linkshells and free companies on Mateus made their pressence known. 

 

This has lead to the RPM to swell with population over the last three weeks, gaining about 150-200 members with more that are unaware of the linkshell/discord combo. It'll likely continue to grow.

 

3) Housing. Until recently Mateus still had even a large house or two available. Now, there are still Mediums available in Goblet and small housing available in all the wards. Apartments are wildly available. The constant demand for more housing on Balmung makes Mateus look particularly attractive given their very low cost housing and availability.

 

 

When these points came to light last month, that had a great effect on the RP community. Many made alts or transferred over to Mateus to check it out, and that got reflected back on the polls that Leggerless and I ran between Tumblr and the RPC respectivelly. It ended up in a landslide both time toward Mateus.

 

I've since checked it out myself, and I've enjoyed it. Yes there are a few bad eggs specifically, I won't name names because that's just bad form. I have a feeling that we're sharing the same handful of people being outright pricks. Feel free to DM me if this is something you want to talk about in private.

 

Anyhow, that's how Mateus got so much attention. Is it deserved? I think it is for a variety of reasons. I think the biggest hook is that there is a growing community of Balmung and new players, creating a much more diverse population than earlier with plenty of room to grow. It's not something Balmung has enjoyed... really ever.

[Erah'sae]

That's so weird...and very out of nowhere! If any were to take such a role, it'd be Siren, wouldn't it?

 

There was a big push by a few people early based on polls that existed for less then 48 hours after the lock down announcement.  And a lot of shouting at other opinions that amounted to "if you're not with us, you shouldn't say anything."  

 

There are a lot of other communities that exist out there on somewhat more populated servers where an influx won't cause near as much disruption as it would on Mataes.

[Mercer]

That's so weird...and very out of nowhere! If any were to take such a role, it'd be Siren, wouldn't it?

 

There was a big push by a few people early based on polls that existed for less then 48 hours after the lock down announcement.  And a lot of shouting at other opinions that amounted to "if you're not with us, you shouldn't say anything."  

 

There are a lot of other communities that exist out there on somewhat more populated servers where an influx won't cause near as much disruption as it would on Mataes.

 

Indeed, there was a lot of drama that first week. It was... a lot of late nights arguing that having alternative RP servers is good instead of waiting around on if Balmung should even unlock.

 

Anyhow, yes there are other communities out there and they should get as much attention as possible. It's always been my goal to try and get as much information as possible for people to make an educated decision on their server of choice. 

 

One of the things that makes Mateus appealing is also why the move is so disruptive, server size. Before the lockdown Mateus had a small but passionate RP community. The size of it has tripled, by my estimates. The RPM discord/Linkshell is getting ready to go into it's third linkshell to handle the amount of people willing to join. And... it's made things disruptive to the older community. 

 

Mateus as it was is unlikely to return at this point. It's gotten so much attention and so many new players. Even if half of them would leave, that still leaves a sizable population that have acclimated. And once free transfers/incentives open up? Well Mateus is guaranteed to see a whiplash of population one way or another.

[ArmachiA]

I think the disruption is a good thing though. The reason why smaller rp servers have such a bad rap is because if there's even a little drama it spreads through the community like wild fire and... there's really no where else to turn. The community is small, you either rp with those people you dislike or get off the server. Ain't like that on Balmung.

 

When 2.0 hit, all the "old guard" on Balmung were basically swallowed up by the new people who stampeded into the server. There were WAY more of them then there were of us and within MONTHS the entire server's culture changed. There were no such thing as smaller server wide events anymore. I remember the first official RP event (Which I think Kylin ran?) had at least a hundred people who showed up. The line that was formed will be forever ingrained in my memory. RP was no longer quiet, it was everywhere and it was loud and proud. No one could control that many people who people basically shifted into their own pockets of community. The growing pains weren't so bad though, the old guard kept doing what they did and the new players either joined or formed their own bubble. It sounds scary, but it really isn't. You'll have people who want to be part of the "RPM" and you'll have people who want to go their own way, just like on Balmung.

[Erah'sae]

 

 

If you can track down where this is coming from or PM me instructions on how to check, I can look into it myself. I have also further thoughts on this, but I'll keep those to private, but please, PM instructions and I'll look into it if I can.

 

That said, I have 0 control or lead on the HUB, I only have control of the RPM and even then... I am probably going to be stepping down sometime in July. Been at this for nearly a year... Kinda tired.

 

I'll let you know if it happens again.  To check the logs on who does what (inviting things, changing others names, etc) you can go to Server Settings -> Audit Log.  There'd be something like "such an such invited Balmung RP Event Bot".  It's also got a list of when people forced nickname changes, mess with channel names, and the like.  Discords come a long way on the auditing side, it's kinda awesome.

 

Really for now the bot has no place on non-Balmung discords until it has multi-server support added, so if it's there, feel free to kick it.  If I get multi server support in, there'll probably be a variation of the bot with a different less-server centric name.  (Or I might spawn more server specific bots just to be able to better allocate bandwith / processing time)

 

I feel you for the exhaustion of managing a community.  I did that for -far- too long in too many other places.  It's a thankless job and a royal pain in the backside, but it's a necessary evil.  Someone has to do it for a community to thrive.

[Erah'sae]

I think the disruption is a good thing though. The reason why smaller rp servers have such a bad rap is because if there's even a little drama it spreads through the community like wild fire and... there's really no where else to turn. The community is small, you either rp with those people you dislike or get off the server. Ain't like that on Balmung.

 

You're not wrong.   

 

Beyond the drama there are some benefits to the small town style RP community.  It's easier to become a more significant part of said community.  You can really get a 'Cheers' esque feel to it where 'everyone knows your name'.  I think some of the conflict might be that people fear, losing that?  Also there is probably some fear that the current 'movers and shakers' are just going to get swallowed up by an external influx that already has some ties to each other?  I don't know.

 

There's a lot to be said in both directions for both the Balmung and the Mateus community styles.  It'll be interesting to watch how things shake out in either case.

[Eses Fafa]

I really hope it does change for the better. I hope people find what they're looking for and that there won't be a negative backlash to either communities. I certainly hope the voices of the hateful within Mateus are drowned out by the progressive and something good comes of this. I just won't be surprised if it comes tumbling down. I'll make myself an alt on there and bear and grin through the leveling process so I can see what's what myself.

[Mercer]

I really hope it does change for the better. I hope people find what they're looking for and that there won't be a negative backlash to either communities. I certainly hope the voices of the hateful within Mateus are drowned out by the progressive and something good comes of this. I just won't be surprised if it comes tumbling down. I'll make myself an alt on there and bear and grin through the leveling process so I can see what's what myself.

 

Well, if you're joining up make sure to join with the RPM to be connected with a growing, supportive community.

 

Roleplay Mateus

[Kage]

That's so weird...and very out of nowhere! If any were to take such a role, it'd be Siren, wouldn't it?

 

There was a big push by a few people early based on polls that existed for less then 48 hours after the lock down announcement.  And a lot of shouting at other opinions that amounted to "if you're not with us, you shouldn't say anything."  

 

There are a lot of other communities that exist out there on somewhat more populated servers where an influx won't cause near as much disruption as it would on Mataes.

Basically, in the early discussions just after the Server Restrictions on Character Creation and Transfers was announced, there was a big noticeable push on this forum that spread to the Official Forums and somewhat to reddit. I never saw anyone spread anything on Tumblr about Mateus as the vocal group was focused here.

 

There's a couple reasons why it may seem like an oversight but it's basically the right time and the visibility. It's a historical fact that there are plenty of people who have minor/major/whatever grievances towards Balmung and/or ffxiv-roleplayers.com. People from the small communities/servers felt drowned out by Balmung posts etc and never dug the heels in or didn't care to (happy with the smaller communities etc). So if people didn't make a push to see the problem that was rearing its ugly head... well opportunity knocked and Mateus answered the door.

[Kylin]

That's so weird...and very out of nowhere! If any were to take such a role, it'd be Siren, wouldn't it?

 

I'm not sure why people assume Siren is a good choice. I've been there, and it's a wasteland for RP. During the debates, not one person tried to sell it. I gave it a sole scathing review and not one native from there attempted to rebuke it at any point. They have an OOC linkshell, yes. They have a website, yes. But only like 5 people or so actually RP there from my experience. Every event is from the same 2-3 people. Their discord chat is dead (I'm still in it now and chatter is practically non-existent aside from a random hello, then another hello like two days later...). It was most definitely not the better choice. Also, all of their houses were sold when I was there. Their general non-RP population is a bit larger. There's no guarantee they'll get the server transfer benefit.

 

Edit: In general, Siren doesn't seem to have the passion to grow any larger RP-wise than it already is...

[Kage]

Adamantoise - 5500

Balmung - 18500

Cactuar - 8750

Coeurl - 4500

Faerie - 8000

Gilgamesh - 15000

Goblin - 3500

Jenova - 6500

Mateus - 2500

Midgardsomr - 6000

Sargatanas - 8500

Siren - 5000

Zalera - 3500

(Rough estimates etc)

 

Most likely candidates for 'designated' server to get bonuses are: Goblin, Mateus, and Zalera.

Siren is not too likely. Sargatanas for sure will not get it. Jenova may not either cause it's close to that 7k = highly congested.

[ArmachiA]

Cactuar is full. I couldn't even imagine trying to shove RPers on that server, it's almost at 9k.