Miqo'te rp community questions!

[Isilme]

 

All opinions here, just discussing.~ There is always a point at which we must step back and say 'lol does it matter that much?' but sometimes it's just fun to discuss.

 

Natch, I'm never gonna blast someone for disagreeing, and I left the true source of Izzy's childhood issues vague specifically to avoid saying "Crossbreed babies are fuxxored". It doesn't really matter (Y'know, as long as it's in reason and you're not a half dragon, half fairy, half goddess half demon princess general warrior knight)

 

But it IS fun to say "Miqohyuroegelefels"

[Folken]

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the races of Eorzea all come from a common ancestory, a la all of the humanoid species in Star Trek canon (humans, vulcans, etc). Lalafel are perhaps a very early divergence and far too genetically removed to even consider cross-breeding with the other races, but the others may be more close.

 

Honestly I find Miqo'te to be a much farther divergence. They have developed significantly different physiological features. Lalafell may be small and rotund. But they do not have extra limbs.

 

If you were to look at the skeletons of all the races, the Miqo'te one would have the most divergences in terms of skull shape (Given their much higher positioned ears) as well as the obvious tail.

 

Still, it's entirely possible they all share a common ancestry, it's just bizarre why Miqo'te would evolve those specific features, and not come with a penchant of other animalistic mammallian features.

 

This is why FFXI's lore was better in this regard lol. BAM everyone was created by deities. The End.

[Naunet]

This is why FFXI's lore was better in this regard lol. BAM everyone was created by deities. The End.

Bleh, but that is SO boring.

[Khaze'to Zhwan]

Something else to consider would be that while the races look more like separate species to us, they're not called that. Different species that are close enough to cross-breed in real life cause what you described sometimes. However, in Eorzea we're described as races, not species. I couldn't tell you what Eorzea's "species" of sentients is, or if it's just a silly translation thing, but I don't think sterility and deformities are probably a problem. I think the only real issue would be from something like a Lalafell trying to carry a Hyur baby. I'd imagine that would not go well if it did happen. >>;;

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the races of Eorzea all come from a common ancestor, a la all of the humanoid species in Star Trek canon (humans, vulcans, etc). Lalafel are perhaps a very early divergence and far too genetically removed to even consider cross-breeding with the other races, but the others may be more close.

I had considered what the base stock was if they all came from one species.  I dislike the term race tbh, I find it a little wishy washy.  Unfortunately the devs have said lala's can breed with the others.  I think we might need to for that genetics do work for say eye/hair colour but a certain unknown magic also plays a role.  Some things are rather difficult to explain and its not like we can actually study it properly.

[Ryanti]

This is why FFXI's lore was better in this regard lol. BAM everyone was created by deities. The End.

 

 

Created by deities because they dun goofed bad future'd the real one, and felt bad. Gotta love random universe-destroying plot twists.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the races of Eorzea all come from a common ancestor, a la all of the humanoid species in Star Trek canon (humans, vulcans, etc). Lalafel are perhaps a very early divergence and far too genetically removed to even consider cross-breeding with the other races, but the others may be more close.

 

That, to me, is believable. Regardless of different features other races may have, we're talking the time span of many, MANY years. It could of happened. Also, divine influence, maybe? Could also be influence of magic. You really can't tell with fantasy worlds, which is why I am basically treating it like other fantasy worlds.

 

I had considered what the base stock was if they all came from one species.  I dislike the term race tbh, I find it a little wishy washy.  Unfortunately the devs have said lala's can breed with the others.  I think we might need to for that genetics do work for say eye/hair colour but a certain unknown magic also plays a role.  Some things are rather difficult to explain and its not like we can actually study it properly.

 

I dislike it too. But it's become the standard.

 

I don't want to imagine a Lala breeding with... any other race. Don't worry, I have a rather deep chasm when it comes to what I can not be horrified with... but holy crap. The biology there is so crazily different that even the fantasy world aspect of it can't unclean my eyes.

 

If you were to ask me what the base race was, it was probably either a totally different race now extinct, or Hyur, or Elezen. Simply because Humans or Elves always seem to be there first.

 

But, yes. It is unable to be studied properly, and is difficult to explain. Best route is to say that it's possible to do with races that 'make sense'. Not the most logical answer, but the best to handle the situation at this point.

[Spiritual Machine]

I don't like the idea of making presumptions about the lore at all. People here seem to be presuming that cross-breeding between the different races is possible and then putting restrictions on which races can cross-breed with which based on further presumptions.

 

None of this seems rooted in science. Just because a species has a common ancestor doesn't mean they can create offspring, and it never has. And it's difficult to say which of FFXIV's races are more "divergent" than others.

 

You just can't introduce rules to the lore that aren't there. If you're going to pretend that cross-breeding is okay, it's all or nothing. It's wrong to hate on Roegadyn/Lalafell half-breeds just because they aren't bending/breaking the lore as "realistically" as you are.

 

And to those saying it's just fantasy and we shouldn't be paying attention to real-world standards for cross-breeding, I think that stance is even more wrong. Both the person who is making up rules and the person who is making up rules based on real-world science are committing the same fallacy. The only difference is that the presumption of the person who uses science is at least able to be reasoned in a discussion about it.

 

Simply making up rules for convenience in the lore with absolutely no basis is very polarizing in a roleplay community where we're all agreeing to accept one canon so that our characters can exist and interact together without conflict. It's a social contract.

 

Until there is an official word on something that isn't covered in the lore, I believe a more polite stance to take is to just not do something that the lore doesn't cover. It's also a more reasonable stance, because the lore could change, and then you'll either have to stick to your guns or retcon months of roleplay.

 

I don't think making lore rules "by community consensus" is wise.

 

 

 

EDIT: So something that sorta bothered me in this thread was that nobody was citing sources for mixed clans or mixed races in the lore or from dev comments. Maybe it's common knowledge, but for someone like me who's still trying to learn about the lore, it sounds like heresay.

 

Luckily, some folks were already discussing the topic in this thread, and someone posted a really helpful source!

 

Can different races crossbreed? 

 

 

Answer: Yes, but it is rare...and often difficult due to cultural differences, etc. which is why you don't see it often. The lore team has informed me that there will be future quests/events that touch on this and other issues, such as love and marriage.

 

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/32685-Questions-related-to-Lore?p=490835&viewfull=1#post490835

 

There's no restrictions mentioned regarding which races can cross-breed (not even with regard to Lalafell, unfortunately), so it looks like open season on that idea. It's probably a trope that should be used sparingly, but it's certainly something to consider.

[Naunet]

Until there is an official word on something that isn't covered in the lore, I believe a more polite stance to take is to just not do something that the lore doesn't cover. It's also a more reasonable stance, because the lore could change, and then you'll either have to stick to your guns or retcon months of roleplay.

 

I don't think making lore rules "by community consensus" is wise.

 

I think this is far too restrictive, as the lore we have is hardly complete. It is perfectly okay to try and reasonably fill in the gaps with a little theorizing. That's not really an unusual thing in RP communities. I highly doubt Squeenix will ever provide lore on the evolutionary history of the species populating the planet, or its geology, or even much about its ecology. There are things that we as roleplayers should feel comfortable speculating on and creating micro-canons for. To tell people that they shouldn't try to fill in gaps means a lot of people may have to RP with gaps in their thought processes, and that's not fair at all.

 

Coming from TERA, where in order to RP properly, you need to more, uhm, cross vast chasms of nothingness rather than fill in a few gaps here and there, I know the value of people able to identify the particular rules a fantasy universe seems to be following and then extrapolating. All believable fictional universes follow consistent rules; if they don't, then they're not constructed properly. It's more than fair to take knowledge and apply it to something to fill a hole that may be missing.

 

I'm talking in rather general terms here, as this is a topic that goes well beyond the idea of half-breeds and bleeds into just about every corner of lore out there.

[Spiritual Machine]

Until there is an official word on something that isn't covered in the lore, I believe a more polite stance to take is to just not do something that the lore doesn't cover. It's also a more reasonable stance, because the lore could change, and then you'll either have to stick to your guns or retcon months of roleplay.

 

I don't think making lore rules "by community consensus" is wise.

 

I think this is far too restrictive, as the lore we have is hardly complete. It is perfectly okay to try and reasonably fill in the gaps with a little theorizing. That's not really an unusual thing in RP communities. I highly doubt Squeenix will ever provide lore on the evolutionary history of the species populating the planet, or its geology, or even much about its ecology. There are things that we as roleplayers should feel comfortable speculating on and creating micro-canons for. To tell people that they shouldn't try to fill in gaps means a lot of people may have to RP with gaps in their thought processes, and that's not fair at all.

 

Coming from TERA, where in order to RP properly, you need to more, uhm, cross vast chasms of nothingness rather than fill in a few gaps here and there, I know the value of people able to identify the particular rules a fantasy universe seems to be following and then extrapolating. All believable fictional universes follow consistent rules; if they don't, then they're not constructed properly. It's more than fair to take knowledge and apply it to something to fill a hole that may be missing.

 

I'm talking in rather general terms here, as this is a topic that goes well beyond the idea of half-breeds and bleeds into just about every corner of lore out there.

You have those things that you make up for your own lore and roleplay that don't influence the world or immersion of other people, such as originating from an isolated tribe, or knowing of an obscure plant or myth, or hailing from an isolated island, or countless other similar examples.

 

Then you have those things that force people to accept your "take" on the lore in order to be able to roleplay with you, such as being a mixed race, or countless other similar examples.

 

There are certain things which are respectful to take liberties on, and certain things that can alienate people. And coming up with continuity via community consensus still serves to isolate members of the roleplay community, potentially. It's not about being restrictive, but about being courteous.

 

And if you're going to make up a rule, such as allowing mixed races, it's even more discourteous to enforce caveats on that rule, such as "no Lalafell/Roegadyn pairs because it doesn't make sense."

 

This isn't our world to make up the rules of. And if we are to make up rules for our sake, we have to be courteous of people who also make up similar rules, because you have no more authority to tell them that they are wrong than I have to tell you that you are wrong.

 

I don't believe an evolutionary history is even necessary in order to justify any of this stuff. If you're going to fill in gaps in the lore, it's best to make things as uncomplicated as possible, especially in the event that the writers of the game contradict your decisions with added content in the future.

 

Anyway, the subject of mixed races and clans is moot, because like I posted before, both of these are confirmed to exist in the lore, with little restriction at all. So you can have Seeker/Keeper mixes and even half-Miqo'tes, within reason.

[allgivenover]

If you're going to fill in gaps in the lore, it's best to make things as uncomplicated as possible, especially in the event that the writers of the game contradict your decisions with added content in the future.

 

This right here. There is a direct correlation between how complex your additions to the lore are and how many questions demand answering to satisfy that complexity. Each answer you provide increases the chance that you will later on be contradicted.

 

When filling in the gaps keep it simple. It'll save yourself, and everyone, a lot of headaches and spare us all the frustration of having to agree on unnecessary consensus. Consider also that we don't have to have all the answers for how things are the way they are in the setting.

[Khaze'to Zhwan]

I can't speak for others but I wasn't discussing this with any aim to enforce a certain set of rules on others.  When I play in a game I like to explore these facets of a game, if it comes to light with some official answers than I will be forced to change and thats hunky dory with with me.  Again its about having a nice discussion and postulating lots of ideas into a big pot rather than THIS IS THE ONLY WAY mentality.  Again I can't speak for others but I don't think that's what this thread has been about.

[FreelanceWizard]

There are certain things which are respectful to take liberties on, and certain things that can alienate people. And coming up with continuity via community consensus still serves to isolate members of the roleplay community, potentially. It's not about being restrictive, but about being courteous.

 

Absolutely.

 

Only a small percentage of RPers are going to ever participate in an RP community site, and of those, some percentage are going to disagree with your take or assert it false as a matter of principle. No matter how logical it may seem to be, someone is going to think it's wrong.

 

That said, there's nothing saying you can't make IC assertions in grey areas where the assertion, if true OOC, would force all others to conform. Our two "Magic" threads on metaphysics are a great example of this, where any or all of those theories could be true, and that's a basis for IC discussion. I can see, based on this thread, a table of scientifically-minded Eorzeans kicking back with snifters of Ul'dahn brandy and cigars and chatting about the unfortunate evolutionary error that produced the miqo'te. That's the good kind of speculation in grey areas. Just don't claim the assertion is true OOC, and everything is good.

[Aysun]

Anyway, the subject of mixed races and clans is moot, because like I posted before, both of these are confirmed to exist in the lore, with little restriction at all. So you can have Seeker/Keeper mixes and even half-Miqo'tes, within reason.

 

Yes, we are aware of that. What we were discussing is what would happen when they do mix because while SE says that it can and does happen, we don't see any blatantly "mixed" races. We were discussing what the physical characteristics of a half-breed would be. The consensus we were coming to is important as many people have decided to play a half-breed, and thus far in game NPCs indicate that there is not a 'mix' of races going on, rather they still appear as Hyur OR Miqo'te not Hyurqo'te, if you get me.

 

While I'd love to just say 'don't do it because we don't know' that is unrealistic. People are going to do what they want to do. It's good to discuss and come to some conclusions based on what we see in game, even if we don't have SE spelling it out for us.

[Spiritual Machine]

Anyway, the subject of mixed races and clans is moot, because like I posted before, both of these are confirmed to exist in the lore, with little restriction at all. So you can have Seeker/Keeper mixes and even half-Miqo'tes, within reason.

 

Yes, we are aware of that. What we were discussing is what would happen when they do mix because while SE says that it can and does happen, we don't see any blatantly "mixed" races. We were discussing what the physical characteristics of a half-breed would be. The consensus we were coming to is important as many people have decided to play a half-breed, and thus far in game NPCs indicate that there is not a 'mix' of races going on, rather they still appear as Hyur OR Miqo'te not Hyurqo'te, if you get me.

 

While I'd love to just say 'don't do it because we don't know' that is unrealistic. People are going to do what they want to do. It's good to discuss and come to some conclusions based on what we see in game, even if we don't have SE spelling it out for us.

Not everyone in the thread seemed aware of it. Honestly it seemed like there were a few conversations going on, and mixed race wasn't even the original topic. I could be mistaken, though.

 

It doesn't seem necessary to say, in the case of what a half-breed would simply look like, "don't do it because we don't know." In the case of appearances, we'll rarely perfectly recreate our character concepts in-game, as the customization options will always be more limited than we'd like them to be. The fact that the concept is possible seems good enough to at least attempt to recreate it.

 

It might not be realistic to come to only one conclusion, in my opinion. There are a lot of ways the characteristics of two parents could come together. I'm not discouraging the discussion at all, though! I'm saying that there are probably a lot of ways to make a "Hyurqo'te" that could be just as different from each other as the parent races are--a whole spectrum of mutts with pointy Hyur ears and stunted tails and what have you!

 

At least until SE spells it out for us, I suppose. But imagined physical characteristics are easy to retcon anyway.

[Nnejo]

And here I was just exploring mixed clan breeding lol. More importantly with the Miqo'te race who are physically very similar in some aspects It seems we are onto a whole other thing here entirely.

[Aysun]

Not everyone in the thread seemed aware of it. Honestly it seemed like there were a few conversations going on, and mixed race wasn't even the original topic. I could be mistaken, though.

 

It doesn't seem necessary to say, in the case of what a half-breed would simply look like, "don't do it because we don't know." In the case of appearances, we'll rarely perfectly recreate our character concepts in-game, as the customization options will always be more limited than we'd like them to be. The fact that the concept is possible seems good enough to at least attempt to recreate it.

 

It might not be realistic to come to only one conclusion, in my opinion. There are a lot of ways the characteristics of two parents could come together. I'm not discouraging the discussion at all, though! I'm saying that there are probably a lot of ways to make a "Hyurqo'te" that could be just as different from each other as the parent races are--a whole spectrum of mutts with pointy Hyur ears and stunted tails and what have you!

 

At least until SE spells it out for us, I suppose. But imagined physical characteristics are easy to retcon anyway.

 

Yea, those variations of mutts just don't exist in the NPCs that we see, so I am happy to accept it as support for the theory of one race being expressed at a time. Otherwise stuff'd get soooo messyyy.. :dazed: The visual purity of the races are maintained, even though SE says cross-breeding is possible and happens, albeit rarely.

[Spiritual Machine]

Not everyone in the thread seemed aware of it. Honestly it seemed like there were a few conversations going on, and mixed race wasn't even the original topic. I could be mistaken, though.

 

It doesn't seem necessary to say, in the case of what a half-breed would simply look like, "don't do it because we don't know." In the case of appearances, we'll rarely perfectly recreate our character concepts in-game, as the customization options will always be more limited than we'd like them to be. The fact that the concept is possible seems good enough to at least attempt to recreate it.

 

It might not be realistic to come to only one conclusion, in my opinion. There are a lot of ways the characteristics of two parents could come together. I'm not discouraging the discussion at all, though! I'm saying that there are probably a lot of ways to make a "Hyurqo'te" that could be just as different from each other as the parent races are--a whole spectrum of mutts with pointy Hyur ears and stunted tails and what have you!

 

At least until SE spells it out for us, I suppose. But imagined physical characteristics are easy to retcon anyway.

 

Yea, those variations of mutts just don't exist in the NPCs that we see, so I am happy to accept it as support for the theory of one race being expressed at a time. Otherwise stuff'd get soooo messyyy.. :dazed: The visual purity of the races are maintained, even though SE says cross-breeding is possible and happens, albeit rarely.

I can also vibe with this idea. It does make things easier in terms of creating a character. Also, I've always been of the opinion that the less you have to describe about your character's appearance in addition to what people can physically see, the less complicated things get for everyone.

 

I always had a hard time remembering the little details that were written in Flag-RSP but not conveyed on characters in World of Warcraft, like those people playing heavily-tattooed/pierced/modified elves and such.

 

And here I was just exploring mixed clan breeding lol. More importantly with the Miqo'te race who are physically very similar in some aspects It seems we are onto a whole other thing here entirely.

You know, I think this'd be pretty easy actually. They're not only really similar, but they have skin color spectrums that overlap. I've made some pretty Seeker-like Keepers, and vice-versa to an extent.

 

Qualities like tail length, heterochromia, and face paint can also subtly suggest certain clan backgrounds.

[C'io Behkt]

There are also some fantasy/science-fiction universes in which cross-breeding occurs, but the offspring is always 100% the mother's species.

[Allyssae]

Forgive me for reviving this thread and forgive me if these questions have been answered before. I've been wondering about a few things since I decided to go for Miqo'te. (Seeker) I've decided to play a nunh, mostly because my friend and I were thinking about what to play and she recommended Nunh, partially because we don't know if name changing will be available and I'd be forever stuck being a Tia if not.

 

I've read up on the lore from what I can find, but here are my concerns:

 

1. What is their homeland? Do they even have a homeland? I'm having difficulties trying to think of a background story for my male character, because I don't know where he could be from.

 

2. What is the general idea of a Miqo'te's job? Being a hunter for coin seems an easy choice, but being in a tribe and all (mostly), what are they attracted to job wise?

 

Which brings me to the next question.

 

3. If they (as a nunh, which my character is) travel to places, be it for their job, adventure, or way of living, will he bring all his females? Since a tribe can have multiple nunh, I'd expect that one nunh has his own 10-50 females that don't go with other nunh... Or am I wrong here? This blends into the next question.

 

4. Are females loyal? Will they stick to their own nunh, or will they also consider others within the same tribe? And if they do, will the one nunh confront the other nunh for mating with his female?

 

5. Love. Do Miqo'te fall in love? Can they favour one female over the rest? Maybe one that always sticks with the nunh, even when he leaves for a mission/job/etc. while the females stay behind? Would it be possible to have that one female to go with him everywhere because he actually loves her and trusts her the most of all of them?

 

Any answers on this?

 

Thanks!

[FreelanceWizard]

1. What is their homeland? Do they even have a homeland? I'm having difficulties trying to think of a background story for my male character, because I don't know where he could be from.

 

Miqo'te can be found all over Eorzea, but Seekers are most commonly found around on La Noscea and in the Sagolii Desert near Ul'dah. Keepers are typically found around the Shroud and in Gridania.

 

2. What is the general idea of a Miqo'te's job? Being a hunter for coin seems an easy choice, but being in a tribe and all (mostly), what are they attracted to job wise?

 

Whatever you like, really. Seekers are more physically adept of the two clans, but Keepers are known (I wouldn't say renowed, though: perhaps reviled) around Gridania as skilled hunters. In their traditional cultures, miqo'te are hunter-gatherers, but many have adapted to city-state life or more a modern, agrarian lifestyle.

 

3. If they (as a nunh, which my character is) travel to places, be it for their job, adventure, or way of living, will he bring all his females? Since a tribe can have multiple nunh, I'd expect that one nunh has his own 10-50 females that don't go with other nunh... Or am I wrong here? This blends into the next question.

 

Nunh have territories in which they're the breeding male (and only rarely the leader, though control of sexual access can produce a fair amount of "soft power," depending on how you want to write your background). It's unlikely a nunh would leave his tribe, as in his absence, any tia could assert the position. A nunh is only nunh so long as he can survive challenges from tia. If he's not there, he can't very well defend the position.

 

That said, there's nothing saying that a territory can't be mobile, or in a city-state, or what have you. Traditions often adapt to changing times.

 

4. Are females loyal? Will they stick to their own nunh, or will they also consider others within the same tribe? And if they do, will the one nunh confront the other nunh for mating with his female?

 

I'd say that depends on the miqo'te in question. All "true" nunh have proved themselves to be apex warrior of their territory, worth breeding with; a miqo'te could easily justify bedding any of them as a way to strengthen their tribe as a whole. How a nunh deals with other nunh "touching his stuff" depends on the character in question, but since male miqo'te tend to be fairly territorial, I imagine the response would be bloody in many cases.

 

Culturally, a miqo'te female in a territory is only supposed to breed with the nunh of that territory. Going outside of that would be an insult to him (she's basically saying he's not good enough) and to the tia of the tribe (they're not strong enough to defeat someone who's not worth the woman's time).

 

5. Love. Do Miqo'te fall in love? Can they favour one female over the rest? Maybe one that always sticks with the nunh, even when he leaves for a mission/job/etc. while the females stay behind? Would it be possible to have that one female to go with him everywhere because he actually loves her and trusts her the most of all of them?

 

Maybe. Miqo'te mating seems to be fairly practical, so love probably doesn't play a big role, but individuals are, of course, individual. That said, if a nunh regularly favors one female over the others, there's likely to be some social side effects ranging from increased discontent and jealousy to rebellion. Depending on how dark you want to go with it, that could be a key story element involving violence and other more unpleasant things.

[Allyssae]

Thank you very much for your answers! You cleared up a lot of stuff for me! <3

[Sizina]

I play as a Miqo'te! I suppose, for now I must play on a server other than Gilgamesh since I can't get into it. Too popular hehe... Would anyone be interested in starting an adventure with me on another server?... I uhh could use some friends in this new world. (Listening to the FFIX soundtrack)

[Vinter]

I'd say you should consider making a Tia character instead, as they have much more freedom since they're not tied to their duties as a breeding male.

It might be difficult to keep coming up with reasons for why a Nunh would be out and about going on adventures and stuff when he should be busy making kittens and strengthening the tribe.

 

If you're really set on your character being a Nunh though, I suggest you really think it through, so your reasons doesn't come off as half baked.