*sighs at Queues as DPS*

[Lament]

DPS queues are cray, even for earlier dungeons. Tank or healer can land a party in seconds, DPS waits forever. I usually am healing or tanking so what I usually do if I need a dungeon is to ask in /say or /shout before going to Duty Finder, pick up a pair of DPS that have been waiting around, then queue up. This only gave me trouble once, was healing, landed two *very* bad DPS and one who was AFK nearly the whole run and then rolled greed on every single piece of caster gear (that he didn't deserve), which was pretty irritating, but otherwise I generally end up with a couple of really thankful and nice folks that way.

[KitKat]

...then rolled greed on every single piece of caster gear (that he didn't deserve)...

 

If you rolled Need, his Greed roll wouldn't even come up. I think it's commonplace where people just roll Greed on everything just because they'll eventually level another class. At least that's what I do (unless a party member realllly wants something, then I'll pass), but I'm generally queuing from the Dutyfinder LS.

[BlessedSilence]

One of the things we try to do in our Free Company (Unsung Heroes) is pledge that no one be stuck in their story at the whims of the duty finder, and we create complete Free Company parties for pretty much everything multiple times daily .  It's nice to be able to go through new content with friends and those you trust as well... though I realize not everyone has that option .

 

You don't have a Free Company listed in your information...maybe finding a home would help you .

 

My Free Company does this.  Of course, as once of the only "full" healers in the fc, as I am now a White Mage ... they all look at me when a group needs to be made :?

 

Hopefully more players will become more flexible and level a healing class.  Or Squeenix will make more :lol:

---

 

Disagree.  From a healing perspective, if I Repose a mob in a group, the rest immediately aggro on me.  Even if I get to the tank in time, 9 times out of 10, he won't be able to pull them off me fast enough to keep me from dying.  The best thing for me, as a healer, to do is to simply run to the other side of the tank and pray.  Even if I hit Shroud of Saints, if I'm the only person with threat on those adds (and I will be if I'm healing the tank, which I will almost certainly be doing since we're dealing with another pack), it won't matter.  They'll still come straight for me.  And because Regen is a primary mana-saving healing tool, there's an extremely high probability that I'll get threat before anyone else no matter what I do - because I can't click the HoT off another player.  They have to do that themselves, and by the time they do (assuming they even think to do so), it's too late.

 

So honestly, as a WHM, there's not a hell of a lot I can do to control anything in this situation, especially if the tank is already being beaten on (since I can't really stop for 3 seconds to try to get a Repose off that one of the DPS or the tank is going to break almost immediately) and risk the tank dropping.

 

The bulk of the blame is just basically situational awareness.  If you see a patrol approaching, the best thing to do would be to back away.  But the tanking game being as it is, it's hard to watch chat, the area around you, and do your job, so I can't completely blame the tank.

 

Wipes happen.

 

OMG I cannot agree with this enough.  As a CNJ turned WHM I swear I have a bullseye engraved on my forehead.

 

Every dungeon, any adds that pop ALWAYS aggro me and make a beeline.  I could be picking my nose, doing nothing, and wham, 6 mobs on me.  I tell my group before the fight, the adds will aggro me, every time.  I hug my tank like he/she is my lifeline, praying they can get some AoE taunt off to grab the mobs.

 

So don't be so quick to blame the healer.  We have it hard enough chain healing a tank with poop gear while trying to keep ourselves up. :cry:

[LeCard]

 

 

So don't be so quick to blame the healer.  We have it hard enough chain healing a tank with poop gear while trying to keep ourselves up. :cry:

There, There

What you need is a good ACN at your side with a carby. The ACN can command Carby to blow the add away(literally) and step in to heal the healer while the healer keeps the tank alive. I always keep an eye on our healer and I'm generally the first one to try and grab any adds that run after them. (and if it's too crazy I can always summon topaz and have a carby that's real good at stealing hate.)

 

P.S. A good ACN must always remember the pet bar and that they have control over who carby tries to kill and when carby uses their skills. also, if you keep emerald at the healers back you can throw the mob into the tank who can then grab the hate.

[LiadansWhisper]

OMG I cannot agree with this enough.  As a CNJ turned WHM I swear I have a bullseye engraved on my forehead.

 

Every dungeon, any adds that pop ALWAYS aggro me and make a beeline.  I could be picking my nose, doing nothing, and wham, 6 mobs on me.  I tell my group before the fight, the adds will aggro me, every time.  I hug my tank like he/she is my lifeline, praying they can get some AoE taunt off to grab the mobs.

 

So don't be so quick to blame the healer.  We have it hard enough chain healing a tank with poop gear while trying to keep ourselves up. :cry:

 

A couple of tips borne from experience as a healer in WoW, Rift, SWTOR, and now FFXIV:

 

1) Pre-cast Stoneskin will not give you threat when it absorbs damage.  So after every pull - every single one! - you need to re-cast Stoneskin on the tank.  If you're like me, you'll cast it on anyone who doesn't already have the debuff, just in case.

 

2) Delay doing any healing at all when at all possible.  This includes Regen.  Sit on your hands and bite your lip until the tank takes enough damage for you to get a fully-effective Cure.  Then go into a healing rotation/priority list.  Mine normally starts with Regen, and then follows up with Cure, weaving in Cure II when I get a proc (or the tank takes a spike).

 

3) Medica will pull everything and anything and generates more threat than Flash.  Avoid, avoid, avoid at all costs!  Unlike Cure, Cure II, and Regen, which build "healer threat" based on effective healing, Medica will generate threat based on both effective and overhealing - on everyone in the party who is in range.  Including pets.  If you have to use it, make sure to have Shroud of Saints ready to pop, and keep an eye on the threat meter.

 

4) Try to position yourself with the tank between you and the mobs.  This isn't always possible, but it's definitely something to try to set up.

 

5) Remember that your primary job as a healer is to keep yourself alive.  I know this sounds backwards, but it's the truth.  You accomplish nothing by being dead.  Even if the tank goes down, there's a possibility the DPS can offtank the rest of the trash or even the boss under the right circumstances.  If you die, mostly likely everyone is going to die in the party.  So watch your health bar and make sure to heal yourself early and often!

 

6) Don't be afraid to stop healing someone who is refusing to follow the strat, or causing trouble in the instance run.  Every now and then you'll find someone who, for whatever reason, just can't play well with others.  They're targeting every mob but the mob the tank tells them to DPS, and thus end up tanking half the trash pack.  You tell them to stand at point A, and they make sure they're out in Bumblefuck Egypt instead.  They're out of range.  They're out of Line of Sight.  You can't heal through walls.  You've told them you can't fucking heal through walls three times.  It doesn't seem to be sinking in.  OKAY.  THIS IS THE POINT WHERE THEY GET NO FURTHER HEALS.

 

Not a Cure.  Not a Cure II.  Not a Regen.  And they probably aren't close enough to get hit with Medica anyway, so none of that, either!  Don't waste your mana trying to heal stupid.  You can't heal stupid.

[Aleister]

OMG I cannot agree with this enough.  As a CNJ turned WHM I swear I have a bullseye engraved on my forehead.

 

Every dungeon, any adds that pop ALWAYS aggro me and make a beeline.  I could be picking my nose, doing nothing, and wham, 6 mobs on me.  I tell my group before the fight, the adds will aggro me, every time.  I hug my tank like he/she is my lifeline, praying they can get some AoE taunt off to grab the mobs.

 

So don't be so quick to blame the healer.  We have it hard enough chain healing a tank with poop gear while trying to keep ourselves up. :cry:

 

A couple of tips borne from experience as a healer in WoW, Rift, SWTOR, and now FFXIV:

 

1) Pre-cast Stoneskin will not give you threat when it absorbs damage.  So after every pull - every single one! - you need to re-cast Stoneskin on the tank.  If you're like me, you'll cast it on anyone who doesn't already have the debuff, just in case.

 

2) Delay doing any healing at all when at all possible.  This includes Regen.  Sit on your hands and bite your lip until the tank takes enough damage for you to get a fully-effective Cure.  Then go into a healing rotation/priority list.  Mine normally starts with Regen, and then follows up with Cure, weaving in Cure II when I get a proc (or the tank takes a spike).

 

3) Medica will pull everything and anything and generates more threat than Flash.  Avoid, avoid, avoid at all costs!  Unlike Cure, Cure II, and Regen, which build "healer threat" based on effective healing, Medica will generate threat based on both effective and overhealing - on everyone in the party who is in range.  Including pets.  If you have to use it, make sure to have Shroud of Saints ready to pop, and keep an eye on the threat meter.

 

4) Try to position yourself with the tank between you and the mobs.  This isn't always possible, but it's definitely something to try to set up.

 

5) Remember that your primary job as a healer is to keep yourself alive.  I know this sounds backwards, but it's the truth.  You accomplish nothing by being dead.  Even if the tank goes down, there's a possibility the DPS can offtank the rest of the trash or even the boss under the right circumstances.  If you die, mostly likely everyone is going to die in the party.  So watch your health bar and make sure to heal yourself early and often!

 

6) Don't be afraid to stop healing someone who is refusing to follow the strat, or causing trouble in the instance run.  Every now and then you'll find someone who, for whatever reason, just can't play well with others.  They're targeting every mob but the mob the tank tells them to DPS, and thus end up tanking half the trash pack.  You tell them to stand at point A, and they make sure they're out in Bumblefuck Egypt instead.  They're out of range.  They're out of Line of Sight.  You can't heal through walls.  You've told them you can't fucking heal through walls three times.  It doesn't seem to be sinking in.  OKAY.  THIS IS THE POINT WHERE THEY GET NO FURTHER HEALS.

 

Not a Cure.  Not a Cure II.  Not a Regen.  And they probably aren't close enough to get hit with Medica anyway, so none of that, either!  Don't waste your mana trying to heal stupid.  You can't heal stupid.

I like this healer.. Canz I make you pocket heals? Or can I be pocket tankz?

[LiadansWhisper]

I like this healer.. Canz I make you pocket heals? Or can I be pocket tankz?

 

LOL Sure!  

 

Just bear in mind that I'm currently raiding the new tier in WoW as well, so my evenings Sun-Thurs are booked from 6pm CST to 10pm CST.  For horrible, terrible DEATH.

 

I should have gotten a picture of the giant flaming steel wheel running over my corpse earlier.  :dodgy:

 

Edit:

 

 

Not a picture of flaming wheels, BUT! >.>

 

 

Yes, this is my life at the moment! lol

 

[Aleister]

I like this healer.. Canz I make you pocket heals? Or can I be pocket tankz?

 

LOL Sure!  

 

Just bear in mind that I'm currently raiding the new tier in WoW as well, so my evenings Sun-Thurs are booked from 6pm CST to 10pm CST.  For horrible, terrible DEATH.

 

I should have gotten a picture of the giant flaming steel wheel running over my corpse earlier.  :dodgy:

 

Edit:

 

 

Not a picture of flaming wheels, BUT! >.>

 

 

 

Looks awesome! I quit WoW when Deathwing was released.. O_< Didn't like the game after that

[Myxie Tryxle]

Because I could want to, and I know playing DPS will have a longer queue. But when that queue goes past the norm as to what a DPS is (as I posted originally) I decided to say something about it. I don't mind waiting 15 - 35 minutes for DPS, but when that nearly stretches into a two hour mark, something isn't right.

 

Part of the problem with the primal fights for story progression is that there's little to no reward to going back and running it again. The only reward a repeat player gets from Ifrit mechanics wise is 2000 experience and 200 gil, and those only if there's a person who hasn't done the fight before and needs it for story progression. This means that only folks who are leveling tank or conjurer (not even scholar in the case of Ifrit) as their primary story class will appear in the DF queue and probably just the one time they need it in order to progress their story, versus the overwhelming majority of folks leveling DD through the story.

 

That said, whenever I see someone looking for help with Ifrit in Intermission or one of my other linkshells, I offer my healing services if I'm not RPing or already in a dungeon, and many others do as well. Two hour queues for a necessary story instance that takes five minutes is totally ridiculous. The quality of the gameplay experience is generally higher as well if you go with people you're likely to see often in game, because folks listen and are open to direction.

 

I'd suggest joining Balmung's Finest and/or Intermission as a resource for finding groups as well as making friends and finding roleplay in game. That's how I ended up in a few of Nel's Dungeon Raid tutorial videos, and it's been a lot of fun.

[Rakoh]

I agree with her on this...

 

Also.. Not trying to sound mean or anything but why is there a thread for this? :l Dps queues have always been like this in any mmo with a 'duty finder'. Just gotta befriend a tank or healer and ask them/join them when they do stuff.. Saves the hassle with dealing with annoying derpy randoms.

 

Edit: Also I'm a Warrior tank and if you need a queue for any dungeon 1-50 (Except AK.. I tend only to do that annoying place with people I know a bit, sorry.) Hit me up and if I'm not busy or anything I most likely will not decline your request for help. I <3 the Titan fight btw.. Just saiyan.

 

Hey you still need to help me through AK you know!

[Aleister]

I agree with her on this...

 

Also.. Not trying to sound mean or anything but why is there a thread for this? :l Dps queues have always been like this in any mmo with a 'duty finder'. Just gotta befriend a tank or healer and ask them/join them when they do stuff.. Saves the hassle with dealing with annoying derpy randoms.

 

Edit: Also I'm a Warrior tank and if you need a queue for any dungeon 1-50 (Except AK.. I tend only to do that annoying place with people I know a bit, sorry.) Hit me up and if I'm not busy or anything I most likely will not decline your request for help. I <3 the Titan fight btw.. Just saiyan.

 

Hey you still need to help me through AK you know!

YES YES YES WIDDLE REIKO. Got me a healer like Koko and get Chance and we'll do it! >:l Cause apparently EVEN HEALERS can derp as we saw with that random one..

[Lament]

...then rolled greed on every single piece of caster gear (that he didn't deserve)...

 

If you rolled Need, his Greed roll wouldn't even come up. I think it's commonplace where people just roll Greed on everything just because they'll eventually level another class. At least that's what I do (unless a party member realllly wants something, then I'll pass), but I'm generally queuing from the Dutyfinder LS.

 

Hurp. I meant Need, yes. In my defense, it was early in the morning! ...Not in my defense, I should've been asleep.

[Quuyn]

Question. I play a healer but recently I've been wanting to start as a DPS because I want it to be easier to farm mob drops for crafting. Now, I'm leaning towards Summoner because I'm sitting on high level Conj and a level 15 Arcanist.

 

Essentially I'm lazy! SO DPSers, I was wondering how Summoner's damage was. And is it worth it to level it, or should I start from scratch with something like a Lancer?

[LiadansWhisper]

Question. I play a healer but recently I've been wanting to start as a DPS because I want it to be easier to farm mob drops for crafting. Now, I'm leaning towards Summoner because I'm sitting on high level Conj and a level 15 Arcanist.

 

Essentially I'm lazy! SO DPSers, I was wondering how Summoner's damage was. And is it worth it to level it, or should I start from scratch with something like a Lancer?

 

They don't really have any burst, it's all DoTS from what I understand.  And I don't believe they have a true "AoE" until level 40 I think?

 

Why don't you just farm mobs using Holy?!

[Korin]

Question. I play a healer but recently I've been wanting to start as a DPS because I want it to be easier to farm mob drops for crafting. Now, I'm leaning towards Summoner because I'm sitting on high level Conj and a level 15 Arcanist.

 

Essentially I'm lazy! SO DPSers, I was wondering how Summoner's damage was. And is it worth it to level it, or should I start from scratch with something like a Lancer?

 

Lancers are fabulous. I'm really enjoying it myself despite the fact I have no idea what I'm doing! It's all a matter of personal preference, though - I've tried conjurer and archer for the sake of a ranged DPS class and I'm not enjoying it as much as I'd hoped. That said, I'm on the ps3 and kiting as an archer just looks...a bit silly.

 

From what I gather summoners aren't that great for burst damage. I'm told you all just spread diseases...and then wait.

 

Of course I might be slightly biased towards lancer what with it being my main. I've levelled a bit of pugilist too, that's also quite fun - I guess in the end it boils down to whether you want to play melee or ranged.

 

Just my opinion on that, though! I'm really quite bad on the DPS side of things (who am I kidding, i'm bad at all of it ;__; ) but I figured i'll throw what I've learned and/or heard of so far at you. c:

[Oroban]

Now that I dropped Titan (Thank you thank you, Liadin), I'm actually going to pick up Gladiator tomorrow after work to level up and tank a bit. It's especially crucial because I actually DID have a bad (well, more uninformed, though I tried to explain the boss tricks) tank today in Brayflox. We kept wiping because "Take the dragon out of the poison" kept registering as "Move yourself out, but let the dragon keep regenerating." My soul hurt, but we kept at it and got the hang of it.

[Quuyn]

Why don't you just farm mobs using Holy?!

 

Hrnnngh -Switches to Red Chakra- I CAN DO THIS.

 

 

But yeah, chucking rocks at things even with Cleric stance is horribly tedious and takes ages. And Dots might actually be perfect if I can just insta cast all over like 5 things and watch them die.

 

Considering I'm looking for this purely to farm mobs, as I don't have any intention of using it in raids unless, of course they need me to. (Who am I kidding I'll be RPing.) SO I think Summoner might be perfect... Minus the tacky outfit. -Huffs-

[LiadansWhisper]

Why don't you just farm mobs using Holy?!

 

Hrnnngh -Switches to Red Chakra- I CAN DO THIS.

 

 

But yeah, chucking rocks at things even with Cleric stance is horribly tedious and takes ages. And Dots might actually be perfect if I can just insta cast all over like 5 things and watch them die.

 

Considering I'm looking for this purely to farm mobs, as I don't have any intention of using it in raids unless, of course they need me to. (Who am I kidding I'll be RPing.) SO I think Summoner might be perfect... Minus the tacky outfit. -Huffs-

 

ACTUALLY...that's exactly what I was doing tonight on Garrosh.  

 

But I digress - I mean using the Holy spell.  Huge AoE, stun effect, pretty, and does a ton of damage!

[Jove]

Why don't you just farm mobs using Holy?!

 

Hrnnngh -Switches to Red Chakra- I CAN DO THIS.

 

 

But yeah, chucking rocks at things even with Cleric stance is horribly tedious and takes ages. And Dots might actually be perfect if I can just insta cast all over like 5 things and watch them die.

 

Considering I'm looking for this purely to farm mobs, as I don't have any intention of using it in raids unless, of course they need me to. (Who am I kidding I'll be RPing.) SO I think Summoner might be perfect... Minus the tacky outfit. -Huffs-

 

To be honest that's petty much level 24 Arcanist for me so far, I almost get a sadistic pleasure out of it. Send in the pet to tank, mob attacks pet, apply DoTs, just watch as the mob's health falls all the way down, usually dying before any of the DoTs finish.

 

But with pet control and pet healing, emnity management, you can easily take on a few mobs at a time, cast the DoTs and sit back. It's pretty damn relaxed, even if a mob takes you by surprise, you've got a mini tank there to distract them.

 

I can't imagine Summoner being that different, just meaner pets and deadlier DoTs. I believe also at around level 40, there's a spell that spreads your DoTs from a target to surrounding enemies?

[Oroban]

I decided to level up Gladiator a bit...and, well, it's pretty fun! I'm currently level 16 and just tanked my first Sastasha party before I decided that 5am was a good bedtime. First time tank and a first time healer, and we handled it pretty easily. Now I just need to repeat tomorrow to get the full plundered plate set...

[LeCard]

Why don't you just farm mobs using Holy?!

 

Hrnnngh -Switches to Red Chakra- I CAN DO THIS.

 

 

But yeah, chucking rocks at things even with Cleric stance is horribly tedious and takes ages. And Dots might actually be perfect if I can just insta cast all over like 5 things and watch them die.

 

Considering I'm looking for this purely to farm mobs, as I don't have any intention of using it in raids unless, of course they need me to. (Who am I kidding I'll be RPing.) SO I think Summoner might be perfect... Minus the tacky outfit. -Huffs-

 

To be honest that's petty much level 24 Arcanist for me so far, I almost get a sadistic pleasure out of it. Send in the pet to tank, mob attacks pet, apply DoTs, just watch as the mob's health falls all the way down, usually dying before any of the DoTs finish.

 

But with pet control and pet healing, emnity management, you can easily take on a few mobs at a time, cast the DoTs and sit back. It's pretty damn relaxed, even if a mob takes you by surprise, you've got a mini tank there to distract them.

 

I can't imagine Summoner being that different, just meaner pets and deadlier DoTs. I believe also at around level 40, there's a spell that spreads your DoTs from a target to surrounding enemies?

The ACN spell that spreads the love is the Level 30 class quest skill. You have to be under Aetherflow and it uses one Aetherflow with each cast(meaning a possible 2 casts off one cast of Aetherflow.) However, since it consumes you Aetherflow you lose a cast of the absobtion spell for everytime you cast the spreading skill.

[Oroban]

I'm starting to get why people don't like to tank as much as DPS, honestly. It's like watching kindergarteners at day care half the time. I'm only tough enough to do the first three dungeons (Well, I'm high enough tank level to DO Halitali, just no confidence I'd survive it) and all I see all day erry day is DD characters deciding that they're gonna poke whatever they want, whether or not I firmly have its focus. Oddly enough, I'm still having tons of fun. Most of the time.

/Masochist?

Anyway yes, here's one more person who'll take some of your queue time down, until I lose hope!

[Dravus]

I enjoy tanking, but it tends to be pretty hit and miss. Sometimes I'll stumble across a brilliant group of players that are experienced or simply willing to listen to feedback and learn how to defeat a particular boss that they're struggling with. I actually enjoy the latter type of group more, since it feels a lot more satisfying when the last boss finally falls to the ground.

 

However, I have absolutely no patience for players that...well, have no patience! I loathe it when I'm trying to look out for the party and another player - usually a DPS, though I've had a couple of healers do it as well - runs ahead and pulls enemies before I have a chance to mark targets and gain their undivided attention. Even if the culprit doesn't die the situation feels rather messy and I've seen groups break apart with insults thrown my way for being a 'bad tank' even though I've done nothing wrong.

 

I suspect situations such as the scenario I described are one of the reasons as to why so many players end up avoiding tanking or healing altogether. I'm certainly not perfect and make my own fair share of stupid mistakes whilst tanking, but I do my best to own up and apologise to the other members of my party when it happens. I'm getting a little tired of players expecting a dungeon run forged through the duty finder to go flawlessly and with absolutely no mistakes made. Even at the highest level of raiding - and I speak from experience since I did a lot of high end raiding back in WoW - wipes happen. It's better to strive to identify and remedy the problem after laughing it off instead of raging and quitting the moment one player makes a mistake.

[Oroban]

Now that I've been on both sides, I'm still hesitant to throw around the 'bad tank' label, but honestly, SOME tanks just aren't so great...like I had a tank in Brayflox's Longstop who just never dodged dragon breath, or lured Aiatar off of the poison, and then complained that we DD characters just weren't doing enough damage. While the boss was regenning.

[Dravus]

Now that I've been on both sides, I'm still hesitant to throw around the 'bad tank' label, but honestly, SOME tanks just aren't so great...like I had a tank in Brayflox's Longstop who just never dodged dragon breath, or lured Aiatar off of the poison, and then complained that we DD characters just weren't doing enough damage. While the boss was regenning.

 

I think some players are just willingly ignorant to the idea that something they are doing might be the reason the rest of the party is failing at their tasks in turn. As a general rule I tend to give each player I come across three chances to consider feedback before I write them off as a lost cause.