Jump to content

RP classes that don't exist in game!


Recommended Posts

Arcanist magic is unaspected, it doesn't have black or white properties. Scholar in the game is based off Arcanist (Or, what's probably more accurate, given the lore of the game Arcanist is based off Scholar teachings). If you're playing a character who can switch between White and Black magic at will, you aren't playing a Scholar in FFXIV's lore. And you can say "then I'm something else" but to be that kinda spits in the face of the lore.

 

If you can be whatever you want, then I can be Superman. Why play RP in a universe with boundaries if you just completely disregard the lore to be whatever you want? The fun is the boundaries, not running around doing whatever you want.

 

I'm not saying OP is doing that, however. Blue Mage is a Final Fantasy staple so it's not like she's saying "I want to be Buffy the Vampire Slayer". Blue Mage will probably (maybe...) be around eventually and exists within the parameters of Final Fantasy.

 

I think what she's doing sounds fine, generally, I'm just telling her to be careful. There's a slippery slope between "I'm vaguely Blue Mage" and "My people is the inventor of blue mage and I'm gonna teach EVERYBODY cuz I'm the only one who knows it and here are the RULES."

 

I think the OP isn't crossing that line, I'm just discussing in generalities. I'm personally not comfortable with it, myself.

Link to comment
  • Replies 84
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Arcanist magic is unaspected, it doesn't have black or white properties. Scholar in the game is based off Arcanist (Or, what's probably more accurate, given the lore of the game Arcanist is based off Scholar teachings). If you're playing a character who can switch between White and Black magic at will, you aren't playing a Scholar in FFXIV's lore. And you can say "then I'm something else" but to be that kinda spits in the face of the lore.

 

If you can be whatever you want, then I can be Superman. Why play RP in a universe  with boundaries if you just completely disregard the lore to be whatever you want? The fun is the boundaries, not running around doing whatever you want.

 

I'm not saying OP is doing that, however. Blue Mage is a Final Fantasy staple so it's not like she's saying "I want to be Buffy the Vampire Slayer". Blue Mage will probably (maybe...) be around eventually and exists within the parameters of Final Fantasy.

 

I think what she's doing sounds fine, generally, I'm just telling her to be careful. There's a slippery slope between "I'm vaguely Blue Mage" and "My people is the inventor of blue mage and I'm gonna teach EVERYBODY cuz I'm the only one who knows it and here are the RULES."

 

I think the OP isn't crossing that line, I'm just discussing in generalities. I'm personally not comfortable with it, myself.

 

I thank you for your honest and constructive opinion. This is why I LOVE this community, we can discuss grey area topics without descending into some silly flame war.

 

Please keep this going! Even if you don't agree with it I want to hear all opinions and I'd like to hear of some suggestions for spells also. As many as you are able.

Link to comment

Arcanist magic is unaspected, it doesn't have black or white properties. Scholar in the game is based off Arcanist (Or, what's probably more accurate, given the lore of the game Arcanist is based off Scholar teachings). If you're playing a character who can switch between White and Black magic at will, you aren't playing a Scholar in FFXIV's lore. And you can say "then I'm something else" but to be that kinda spits in the face of the lore.

 

If you can be whatever you want, then I can be Superman. Why play RP in a universe  with boundaries if you just completely disregard the lore to be whatever you want? The fun is the boundaries, not running around doing whatever you want.

 

I'm not saying OP is doing that, however. Blue Mage is a Final Fantasy staple so it's not like she's saying "I want to be Buffy the Vampire Slayer". Blue Mage will probably (maybe...) be around eventually and exists within the parameters of Final Fantasy.

 

I think what she's doing sounds fine, generally, I'm just telling her to be careful. There's a slippery slope between "I'm vaguely Blue Mage" and "My people is the inventor of blue mage and I'm gonna teach EVERYBODY cuz I'm the only one who knows it and here are the RULES."

 

I think the OP isn't crossing that line, I'm just discussing in generalities. I'm personally not comfortable with it, myself.

 

Arcanist magic /is/ unaspected, correct. But you're still letting the class restrictions dictate what the person/character themselves can and can't do. Why a person can't dabble a little in that of Arcanist and also in that of black magic, I still don't quite understand =)

Link to comment

in theory you can be somebody who knows Conjury and Thaumaturgy (White and Black magic is a different monster, since with white magic you need to be able to access the Succor and the Elementals are currently being bitchy about that and Black magic is the void? I'm not 100% on BLM lore here) but in FFXIV you wouldn't be a SCHOLAR. I'm talking about the jobs themselves, not just "some guy who wields a sword" (Which ironically is the name of things in Japanese. "Gladiator" is actually just "Sword User" in Japanese so I believe that was their intent to be vague). She wants to be a BLUE MAGE not some vague mage in the corner, meaning you need specific context for BLUE MAGE.

 

There's a difference between saying your a Sword User and saying your a Paladin. We're talking about very specific, Final Fantasy jobs within the FFXIV lore. Which have their own abilities, their own training regimens, and their own lore that deserve to be respected.

Link to comment

in theory you can be somebody who knows Conjury and Thaumaturgy (White and Black magic is a different monster, since with white magic you need to be able to access the Succor and the Elementals are currently being bitchy about that and Black magic is the void? I'm not 100% on BLM lore here) but in FFXIV you wouldn't be a SCHOLAR. I'm talking about the jobs themselves, not just "some guy who wields a sword" (Which ironically is the name of things in Japanese. "Gladiator" is actually just "Sword User" in Japanese so I believe that was their intent to be vague). She wants to be a BLUE MAGE not some vague mage in the corner, meaning you need specific context for BLUE MAGE.

 

There's a difference between saying your a Sword User and saying your a Paladin. We're talking about very specific, Final Fantasy jobs within the FFXIV lore. Which have their own abilities, their own training regimens, and their own lore that deserve to be respected.

 

Well yes, in that context then there would be a definite limitation. However, those jobs themselves are only limited to the crystals given if I'm not mistaken. None of my characters are the main character/group, so they'd never be able to receive one of those.

 

But I believe Yangh is simply trying to ascertain whether or not the idea of RPing Blue Mage-like skills is feasible and accepted. Same goes for those that RP Dark Knight and Ninjas and other things. The job is just a name/class title that is given to game restrictions.

Link to comment

 

 

 

But you're still letting the game and its mechanics dictate what you can and can't do, if I'm reading correctly. Why can't a "scholar" use white and black magic? Just because the class itself in the game is unable to do so doesn't mean that they can't. One could argue that some scholar spells are even black magic oriented, such as their drain ability and a couple of others.

 

Lorewise, the reason a "Scholar" can't use both white and black magic is that White Magic is being sat on by a pack of Elementals that say, "Nope."  Additionally, in this game, White and Black Magic are portrayed as anathema to each other.  Trying to use both, even without the monitoring that the Elementals are doing of Succor (that's White Magic), would probably make you explode.  They come from completely different places (in terms of how they work), require completely different motivations to invoke, and seem to behave like oil and water.

Link to comment

Lorewise, the reason a "Scholar" can't use both white and black magic is that White Magic is being sat on by a pack of Elementals that say, "Nope."  Additionally, in this game, White and Black Magic are portrayed as anathema to each other.  Trying to use both, even without the monitoring that the Elementals are doing of Succor (that's White Magic), would probably make you explode.  They come from completely different places (in terms of how they work), require completely different motivations to invoke, and seem to behave like oil and water.

 

I totally get that! Perhaps I should have used restorative magic rather than the phrase "white magic." I understand that White comes from the elementals and that there are certain things in place keeping people from using it. But the point is still rather constantly being missed that in game mechanics =/= RP, which is what I've been trying to get at :P

Link to comment

I'm not talking about game mechanics at all though? Not once have I mentioned the mechanics of a class/job. I've only mentioned the LORE of a job. Those are two very different things. Lore != MEchanics. Lore is the construct on which the universe is built. It's why even though mechanically you can spam Holy in Mor Dhona, LORE WISE you can't even have access to the spell. At all.

 

The OP was saying she wanted to make lore about Blue Mage based on the already available information we have on Blue Mage in other FF games. I was telling her to be wary because that lore could be way off when the actually job comes out (Like Scholar in FFXI and Scholar in FFXIV are two very different jobs spell wise and Lore wise [Mechanically SCH could also be a healer in FFXI so mechanically not too different]). What if Blue Mage comes out and you don't absorb spells from monsters? They just already learned from animals and mimicked the spells? Stuff like that. Sure she could say she still absorbs spells but in FFXIV she wouldn't be a Blue Mage, lore wise.

 

Summoner really is the best example of this, because if it would have came out later we would have had many RPers with full sized Primals as their minions, only to learn later that (Lore wise) you only get access to a piece of the primals power in the form of Egi's.

Link to comment

 

 

 

I totally get that! Perhaps I should have used restorative magic rather than the phrase "white magic." I understand that White comes from the elementals and that there are certain things in place keeping people from using it. But the point is still rather constantly being missed that in game mechanics =/= RP, which is what I've been trying to get at :P

 

I get that.  But, there are also Lore reasons (that are reflected in game mechanics, in some places) that back up what I'm saying.

 

Truth is, you can call your character whatever you want.  I can call myself an Awakened Mage.  You can claim to be Ironman.  And that is, ultimately, totally up to you and me.  The player is the ultimate arbiter of what they are playing.

 

That doesn't mean Lore would back it up.  But you can play whatever you want, and I'll be the first person to go, "More power to ya, bro."  I just might avoid the character in question. :-P

 

To me, a bigger concern is that when we're dealing with classes for which we have very little or almost no lore on, we may very well be setting ourselves up for a serious issue later on down the line.  A lot of people assumed that Scholar in FFXIV would be like Scholar in FFXI, and they're basically not the same at all.  What happens if, a year down the road in the expansion, they introduce one of those non-available classes and the Lore is completely and utterly opposed to everything you've been playing?  I mean, how do you even reconcile that?

 

That would be my big question.  I'm of the mind that if you're gonna do something that's not currently in game (or not entirely spelled out in Lore), you should keep it on the down low.  Try to mimic what is in game as much as possible, and I personally wouldn't have that character ever tell another person what they are (unless there were some really extenuating circumstances).  That's just me, but I am not entirely sure of the point to coming up with rules here when they could just as easily get tossed into Pluto in the next few months.

Link to comment

I'd like to reel this back slightly. I should point out i'm not looking to create any lore to make this idea work. I'm simply combining a scimitar, gems that are basically unaspected crystals and using those crystals to cast a spell.

 

We've seen in FF14 many things can be done using crystals such as summoning primals, cooking, crafting. All manner of things. While it is blue mage theme it is NOT blue mage, it is VERY far from it.

 

So I decided that the power lies witht he sword NOT the wielder. That way once Blue mage drops? I can throw that sword away and pursuit the job itself.

 

No retcon required!

 

Thoughts?

Link to comment

I'd like to reel this back slightly. I should point out i'm not looking to create any lore to make this idea work. I'm simply combining a scimitar, gems that are basically unaspected crystals and using those crystals to cast a spell.

 

We've seen in FF14 many things can be done using crystals such as summoning primals, cooking, crafting. All manner of things. While it is blue mage theme it is NOT blue mage, it is VERY far from it.

 

So I decided that the power lies witht he sword NOT the wielder. That way once Blue mage drops? I can throw that sword away and pursuit the job itself.

 

No retcon required!

 

Thoughts?

 

You can seriously do whatever you want with your character.  You do not need my - or anyone else's - approval to play your character.

Link to comment

I'd like to reel this back slightly. I should point out i'm not looking to create any lore to make this idea work. I'm simply combining a scimitar, gems that are basically unaspected crystals and using those crystals to cast a spell.

 

We've seen in FF14 many things can be done using crystals such as summoning primals, cooking, crafting. All manner of things. While it is blue mage theme it is NOT blue mage, it is VERY far from it.

 

So I decided that the power lies witht he sword NOT the wielder. That way once Blue mage drops? I can throw that sword away and pursuit the job itself.

 

No retcon required!

 

Thoughts?

 

From what I've seen, this is pretty much the best way to do it. Have it be through the sword and should the class ever actually release down the road, you'll be able to adjust accordingly. Artifacts of power/whatever are pretty much always out there, and I don't see there's any reason to say this one in particular couldn't =)

Link to comment

I've said it before, I don't necessarily see anything wrong with the idea, but lore does come with the territory. Where did that sword come from? Scimitars aren't thing in FFXIV currently, so you'd have to explain it. The use of crystals in order to make it work, where did you learn that? You said your clan, well how did your clan learn of this technique? You're building lore automatically. Arabic isn't an Eorzean language, where did that come from? Before you know it you have an entire lore base around a class that you aren't sure will be what you envisioned.

 

I like the fact you're willing to drop it in order to learn Blue Mage once it comes out. Depending on lore, you can always say your clan learned a bastardized version of Blue Mage and when it actually is released into the game you decide to learn the "correct" one. But that would really only work depending on lore.

 

I do agree with Liadan, I wouldn't go running your mouth about it ICly, only telling a select few, because it can easily spiral into your character suddenly being a trainer for all these Blue Mages or becoming the inventor of Blue Mage or something. There should probably be a reason to keep it quiet anyway - be it Garleans or whatever.

Link to comment

SE has come in and said Thief wouldn't work lore wise so they changed it to rogue

They specifically avoid using the term thief. I believe Thief WILL be added into the game later on as a job and that a Rogue and thief are too very different things. So someone roleplaying as a thief is perfectly entitled to do so. Regardless thief is not just a class, anyone who wants to steal stuff could be a thief. So just calling yourself a thief is not really something foreign to the FFXIV world as it is in all worlds.

I've quoted some things that are mainly off-topic... But as ArmachiA said, Square specifically said that Rogue IS Thief but they cannot use the term is because of lore.

 

But I think there is something different from saying one is a thief and then saying that some one is a Thief (if it had been termed that way). Just as saying, aether crystals or what not allow someone to cast generic mob spells is different from someone being a Blue Mage.

 

However, I think ArmachiA does have good points about the fact that you are generally building some lore about how your character is able to use the scimitar and its crystals. Although, I'm not sure what is meant about Scimitars not being a thing because... I thought they were? Brass Blades use them and the Aeolian Scimitar exists in the Relic Reborn quest?

Link to comment

I've said it before, I don't necessarily see anything wrong with the idea, but lore does come with the territory. Where did that sword come from? Scimitars aren't thing in FFXIV currently, so you'd have to explain it. The use of crystals in order to make it work, where did you learn that? You said your clan, well how did your clan learn of this technique? You're building lore automatically. Arabic isn't an Eorzean language, where did that come from? Before you know it you have an entire lore base around a class that you aren't sure will be what you envisioned.

 

I like the fact you're willing to drop it in order to learn Blue Mage once it comes out. Depending on lore, you can always say your clan learned a bastardized version of Blue Mage and when it actually is released into the game you decide to learn the "correct" one. But that would really only work depending on lore.

 

I do agree with Liadan, I wouldn't go running your mouth about it ICly, only telling a select few, because it can easily spiral into your character suddenly being a trainer for all these Blue Mages or becoming the inventor of Blue Mage or something. There should probably be a reason to keep it quiet anyway - be it Garleans or whatever.

 

Couldn't agree more with this post. I tread a very fine line that's for certain. Lore specific to my charatcer is exactly that, it only effects my character and it adds a much need sprinkle of different to those around me (How many people do you see speaking in different languages anymore?).

 

The sword itself is infact a very old one and it is infact from her Clan from a very long time ago when they were less secretive. Its another tool used for killing just like her martial assassination arts.

 

I'm not going to be an inventor of anything, the sword is EVERYTHING. If someone takes that sword? THEY can use its power providing they attune those crystals will skills from scratch (Different for every user).

 

Does this make any sort of sense or am I babbling >.<

 

 

[EDIT] - Scimitar's do exsist in FF14... they're just not called Scimitar's. For example, Aldis' sword, The sword of Nald IS a Scimitar.

Link to comment

Although, I'm not sure what is meant about Scimitars not being a thing because... I thought they were? Brass Blades use them and the Aeolian Scimitar exists in the Relic Reborn quest?

 

Let me clarify that one because that IS a mechanics issue. Currently, we're assuming the weapon for Blue Mage is going to be "Scimitar" which doesn't exist beyond being called "Swords" for Paladins to use. It's possible later on they'll retcon all the Scimitars models out (They are doing that with Daggers in 2.3 in prep for NIN) but honestly we don't really know what the weapon will be. It's a good chance it's Scimitar though, they haven't changed the weapon of any class as far as I know (SMN doesn't count it doesn't have an iconic weapon)

Link to comment

That's a fair trade off I feel. I don't mind calling a Scimitar shaped sword a sword but I will describe as a scimitar-like sword with a curved blade adorned with 8 distinct jewels of varying colour and a strange foreign script engraved at the flat of the blade.

 

Is that fair?

Link to comment

I think it's safe to call it a Scimitar, since it's most LIKELY going to be the weapon for Blue Mages. On the very very very off chance that it's not, it's not a huge ass retcon.

 

As a side note, just sometimes... I hate the "What your weapon is, is what you are" deal. What are they gonna do if RDM is a thing? Rapiers? THESE ARE ALL SWORDS SE YOU AIN'T FOOLIN ANYONE.

Link to comment

Ohhh so what it is, is that Scimitar is something iconic for Blue Mages in FF history but in-game currently it's just another type of sword that sword users wield.

 

Which is similar to how there are regular thieves and well... THIEFs?

 

Most of what I would consider Blue Mage stuff is from Strago and FF6 so the "iconics of Jobs/Classes" sorta go over my head. ... never actually was good at FF3 or 5 >.>;

Link to comment

Right. There are theives and then there is the job THIEF (Which as a guildy always complains, should really be called TREASURE HUNTER) and most jobs in the Final Fantasy library have "iconic" weapons where if they weren't used as the equippable weapon for that class, a bunch of FF nerds would probably fall over and die (Blue Mage - Scimitar, Red Mage - Rapier, Scholar - Big ol Book, etc etc)

Link to comment

Ohhh so what it is, is that Scimitar is something iconic for Blue Mages in FF history but in-game currently it's just another type of sword that sword users wield.

 

Which is similar to how there are regular thieves and well... THIEFs?

 

Most of what I would consider Blue Mage stuff is from Strago and FF6 so the "iconics of Jobs/Classes" sorta go over my head. ... never actually was good at FF3 or 5 >.>;

Pretty much. Scimitars were iconic to the Blue Mage in FF11. Which is where a lot of us draw our fondness of the class itself. (It was so awesome!!!)

Link to comment

I would also have mentioned Tactics Advanced but those were just >.> Gugh.

 

I just know of Strago (FF6), Enemy Skill Materia, Quina?(FF9) and that in TA, they had swords (sabers really? or rather, just some type of straight-blade). So I didn't realize that Scimitars were the thing until... today @_@;

Link to comment

I would also have mentioned Tactics Advanced but those were just >.> Gugh.

 

I just know of Strago (FF6), Enemy Skill Materia, Quina?(FF9) and that in TA, they had swords (sabers really? or rather, just some type of straight-blade). So I didn't realize that Scimitars were the thing until... today @_@;

 *legasp*!

 

I love Scimitar's!! xD

Link to comment

FFXI did a lot to change the landscape of how people see the jobs, really. In FFXI Blue Mages HAD SCIMITARS and it just became -the- thing. It really only had to do with the lore they put out (Aht Urgan was their version of Arabian Nights and Blue Mages came out of that expansion) but it became pretty iconic because of it. Beastmaster also got the same treatment, with it's one handed axe. I actually has a friend RAGE because WAR got AXES then worry and fret over whether BST would have the one handed axe if it ever got put into the game (I don't know why WAR had two handed axes in FFXI). Because of the way MMO's are, FFXI forced a certain aesthetic for each class that kind of made a set look.

 

(This isn't true of all classes obviously - BLM, WHM, RDM always looked the same since FF1)

Link to comment

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...