PSA: If You Want to Romance RP, Don't Make Your Character A Minor.

[Tiergan]

Just to clarify, I am not talking about mild crushes or sweet little romances between two teenaged characters where it's all fluffy feelings, hand-holding, and nothing very serious happens.

 

I'm talking about romance RP of any sexually charged nature whether or not you actually get around to ERPing. Several friends and I who play underage characters have been approached and pursued for RP of a sexual nature, even when their age is made apparent. (Yes, someone has tried to hit on Leilani Leilai despite the fact that she announced she was just 15 summers and is the shape of a fucking toddler, guys, come on now.) I have also seen younger characters attempt to pursue adults for romance.

 

I want to make people very aware the serious legal consequences sexual RP involving minors IC or OOC (OOC especially) can have. If the person you're RPing with happens to be a minor in real life - congratulations, you just broke the law, even if both of your characters are of age. If you're caught, you can be labeled a sex offender for the rest of your life.

 

[video=youtube]http://youtu.be/gtMBuJkgiNw

 

If the character you are pursing sexual RP with is a IC minor, but OOCly an adult, you're both still possibly breaking laws depending on where you live.

 

You can try to justify it by saying that Eorzea is a different world with a more medieval approach towards who is considered an adult - but let's be honest here in that's just splitting hairs to enable what ultimately is written child-pornography. I know that with characters that are 17, it can also be very easy to rationlise that it's not as bad because they're almost legal and practically adults, but 'practically an adult' is not the same thing as 'an adult'.

 

Edit: Right, how about we just say this - When it comes to two adults and one is RPing a minor, here are some choice quotes from the thread...

 

The problem is that this is a theme that makes many people EXTREMELY uncomfortable, and as a community it is being normalized to the point that people playing underage characters are being regularly exposed to unwanted, unsolicited explicit advances.

 

It's a very complicated issue but what it really boils down to is that we aren't talking about a well-thought out plot exploring coming of age and young sexuality (Which in itself is debatable) portrayed in a realistic manner. We're talking about underage characters being regularly approached and pursued sexually within the community. And people are playing purposefully sexualized minors in a fetishized (Not realistic or literary in any matter) way. Which, I guess if we're okay with that I would ask that these people at least consider that many people are extremely uncomfortable with their underage characters being sexualized.

 

[...]anyone who thinks that so long as the people are legal age, then it is okay to pretend otherwise is so very incredibly wrong.

 

It is unhealthy and enabling of fantasies that are dangerous.

Please do not do it.

 

For some people, Roleplay is just cooperative storytelling and that's great. For others, it is roleplay, which, as PkThunda said, can lead down some dangerous roads.

 

Essentially, its intent.

 

However, I do want to say that, as a person with an underage character, it makes me extremely uncomfortable when players try to enter into a sexual encounter with her. I would totally be okay with a /tell asking me whether or not this was okay, but those never come. It begins like any RP session does, and I'm so exhausted of parsing each line of every RP she's involved with to find out whether or not I should bail, to point where I don't even want to enter into random RP anymore.

 

If you're already embroiled in something like this or have done something like this before, it's okay - everyone makes poor decisions. However, after reading this - you can no longer claim ignorance if you do not exit that kind of RP and end it.

 

In closing: If you're an adult RPing a minor and you want sexually charged RP - age them up.

 

If you're an adult and a character that is a minor tries to approach you for sexually charged RP - just say no.

 

If you're a minor and you're rping period - don't engage in sexually charged RP, you could get someone labeled a sex offender for life. Just don't do it.

[OttoVann]

I remember seeing the video in the other thread about ERP.

[crowmeleon]

Things that shouldn't need to be said but definitely do. 

 

Also, it doesn't matter if you don't know your partner is underage or not. In the eyes of the law it's your responsibility as an adult to ensure the people you're engaging in sexual conduct with are of age. Regardless of whether or not you agree, thems the chops. 

 

Same goes for if you're both of age but writing minors in sexual situations, if one of you does such from an area where it is illegal, you both are culpable. 

 

And overall, I agree that I try my best not to judge, and understand that two consenting adults might engage in this sort of roleplay in private from places where the roleplay is 100% legal. But the degree to which I see this happening from every angle is getting a little bit ridiculous, and is extremely invasive to people who want to roleplay minor characters without worrying about them being subjected to sexual situations.

[Zyrusticae]

Just wanted to say that you really can't expect people to not pursue your character romantically or sexually just because he or she is a Lalafell, especially considering how ridiculously randy Lalafell NPCs are in-game.

 

Carry on.

[Delilah Scythewood]

*gives the biggest and most exuberant possible slow clap of her life*

[crowmeleon]

Just wanted to say that you really can't expect people to not pursue your character romantically or sexually just because he or she is a Lalafell, especially considering how ridiculously randy Lalafell NPCs are in-game.

 

Carry on.

 

That's understandable. But it's also not wrong for people to be uncomfortable with sexual/romantic situations involving lalafel. and we should respect an individual's preferences once they've been made clear. 

 

Also wanted to add that a friend of mine, Ja'ren, brought up the good idea of including "No romance rp" in the search info of characters trying to avoid these situations. I don't know how I feel about those kinds of measures even being necessary but considering it could result in someone having a more comfortable rp experience I think it's worth saying.

[Tiergan]

Just wanted to say that you really can't expect people to not pursue your character romantically or sexually just because he or she is a Lalafell, especially considering how ridiculously randy Lalafell NPCs are in-game.

 

Carry on.

 

I am okay with folks doing romantic/sexual RP with their adult lalafell characters if they want to.

 

It's just UNIMAGINABLY awful when people try to proposition my goddamn 15 year old lalafell who very much acts like a young, derpy kid. Like, the entire point of her character is to be an adorable goofball that is the last thing you ever want to think of when boners are involved.

[Delilah Scythewood]

Just wanted to say that you really can't expect people to not pursue your character romantically or sexually just because he or she is a Lalafell, especially considering how ridiculously randy Lalafell NPCs are in-game.

 

Carry on.

 

That's understandable. But it's also not wrong for people to be uncomfortable with sexual/romantic situations involving lalafel. and we should respect an individual's preferences once they've been made clear. 

 

Also wanted to add that a friend of mine, Ja'ren, brought up the good idea of including "No romance rp" in the search info of characters trying to avoid these situations. I don't know how I feel about those kinds of measures even being necessary but considering it could result in someone having a more comfortable rp experience I think it's worth saying.

I have a friend who has in her search info that her character is asexual. She claims it's been a breeze and no one propositions her, not even OOCly. Though she may also just be lucky.

[Gabineaux]

I can think of a certain linkshell that should see this video. Not that they would give a shit, either way.

 

:roll:

[Erik Mynhier]

Just wanted to say that you really can't expect people to not pursue your character romantically or sexually just because he or she is a Lalafell, especially considering how ridiculously randy Lalafell NPCs are in-game.

 

Carry on.

 

That's understandable. But it's also not wrong for people to be uncomfortable with sexual/romantic situations involving lalafel. and we should respect an individual's preferences once they've been made clear. 

 

Also wanted to add that a friend of mine, Ja'ren, brought up the good idea of including "No romance rp" in the search info of characters trying to avoid these situations. I don't know how I feel about those kinds of measures even being necessary but considering it could result in someone having a more comfortable rp experience I think it's worth saying.

 

Was I the only one that was like "WTFFFFFF?" in the mogmail mission involving the midlander and Miss Quicksand lala?

[crowmeleon]

Just wanted to say that you really can't expect people to not pursue your character romantically or sexually just because he or she is a Lalafell, especially considering how ridiculously randy Lalafell NPCs are in-game.

 

Carry on.

 

That's understandable. But it's also not wrong for people to be uncomfortable with sexual/romantic situations involving lalafel. and we should respect an individual's preferences once they've been made clear. 

 

Also wanted to add that a friend of mine, Ja'ren, brought up the good idea of including "No romance rp" in the search info of characters trying to avoid these situations. I don't know how I feel about those kinds of measures even being necessary but considering it could result in someone having a more comfortable rp experience I think it's worth saying.

 

Was I the only one that was like "WTFFFFFF?" in the mogmail mission involving the midlander and Miss Quicksand lala?

 

No, I won't lie and say I didn't purse my lips when first presented with the situation. But I can't say it's wrong either. Miss Momodi was an adult. Culturally speaking lalafel are seen as adults, even though I myself cannot equate them as such physically speaking, and thus am uncomfortable with being involved with any romantic rp involving them. Not my thing, but as long as minors are not involved I really can't say anything. As long as you're rping an adult capable of consent I can't judge someone who rps romantic or sexual situations with their lalafel characters, you do you and whatnot. 

 

Somewhere someone has a very powerful infatuation with bologna. Now I don't like bologna and the idea of it as an object of sexual fixation both confuses and appalls. But as long as this person doesn't push it on me or anyone else without their consent, they can follow their mystery meat dreams as far as I'm concerned. 

 

Actually puts me in a strange position roleplay wise when it comes to a character employing dancers of all different races. IC lore-wise there's really no reason why a lalafel wouldn't be a part of that troupe. But OOC I just am not comfortable portraying it which leaves me at a loss. I skirt around the issue best I can, though.

 

[Tiergan]

I don't really want this to get derailed by whether or not it is acceptable for people to RP out romances with lalafell characters, because what Faolan mentioned is absolutely on point.

 

If people are adults and RPing adult lalafell characters, they can RP whatever they want as two consenting adults. It may not be to your tastes, it's not really anyone's business but theirs.

 

Also: Damnit Faolan, we talked about my bologna fetish. It was supposed to be a secret. ;A;.

[Roswyn]

The fact that this even needed to be said or addressed is just.... :frustrated:

 

[allgivenover]

It's probably not in my best interest to post this, as I risk the attention of some misguided social justice warrior or the wrath of the thought police, but I can't help but comment.

Disclaimer: I am not endorsing ERP involving children.

 

First of all, if the written portrayal of minors in sexually charged situations is child pornography, then I can walk into any bookstore in the continental United States and buy child pornography right now, legally.

 

Here's a few living authors that are child pornographers by this ridiculous definition:

 

George R.R. Martin

Anne Bishop

Anne Rice

Neal Stephenson

Patrick Rothfuss

Brent Weeks

Steven King

 

And these are just the few that I've recalled and read in the short moments I've spent typing this post. There are doubtless, countless others.

 

The idea that a written portrayal can be categorized this way is completely ridiculous, and suggestions that you could get in trouble simply by ERPing it with another consenting adult is flat out ludicrous - though ERPIng with a minor could certainly get you in trouble, that's not what I'm addressing here.

 

Secondly, let's check age of consent and what constitutes a minor for legal definitions. In the US it's almost universally 18 aside from a few cases where it's 16 or there are allowances for those close in age. For our friends in England, it's 16. In Iceland, 14 (I think?). My point in bringing this up is that age of consent is completely arbitrary and varies from place to place. Is everyone in Iceland a monster? What about England? They violate our well established idea that the magic number 18 is somehow indicative of a person's ability to handle sex, and that anyone that goes under this number is automatically a monster. Is the entire nation of England populated by child molester enablers?

 

Third, Eorzea is a pre-industrialized place. I doubt they even have notions like age of consent. Don't mistake me as endorsing these activities, but even in the real world ideas like "teenager" and "adolescence" are modern notions. In Eorzea, unless you are educated and living in the city, it's very likely that no one cares how old you are after puberty. Fortunately for them, Square Enix is smart enough to avoid defining anyone's age to avoid upsetting the delicate sensibilities of modern culture (seriously how old are ANY of the characters?)

 

Finally, and this is a sort of a broader topic but it's related and endlessly amusing for me, the vast majority of RPers are usually fine with participating in the following types of RP (especially when their character is the target, who doesn't love playing a victim now and then?):

 

Torture.

Kidnapping.

Murder.

Mutilation.

Theft.

Rape (so so very common in back-story).

Violent conflict resolution.

 

But violate some arbitrary number and idea about age of consent? Suddenly you are crossing the line. I'm not saying go out and have a fun time ERPing with underage characters, I'm just saying it's silly to draw the line here after everything else the average RPer is ok with. Are there people out there that are only doing this sort of thing to get their rocks off? Of course, and you'd rightfully avoid them. But are there people who are using this to tell a compelling story? Probably not very often, but it's possible. I don't consider anything off limits in my writing, and as my roleplaying is largely an extension of that I don't consider anything in roleplay off limits.

[Zyrusticae]

I suppose at this point I have to mention that there is a huge difference between roleplaying fictional minors and ERPing with actual minors, and you have absolutely no way of telling when you're doing the latter unless the person tells you specifically that he or she is a minor.

 

Obviously if you are aware that the person is a minor then you are probably safer refraining from engaging in any ERP with them if you're concerned about spillover into RL. However, there is absolutely nothing wrong with engaging in ERP with minor characters that also happen to be postpubescent (prepubescent minors are another matter, and the presence of both Lalafells and Padjal complicate that considerably). If you find it icky when people approach your character for it, well, that's on you.

 

Full disclosure: I engaged in ERP all the way back when I was... fuck it, I don't even remember, maybe 12? 13? To my knowledge absolutely no one has gotten in trouble for it and most people I engaged with didn't even realize I was a minor because I didn't tell them. You're fighting a losing battle if you're concerned about this sort of thing because you are entirely dependent on the word of your partner and if that's a major concern for you, you're better off not engaging in anything resembling ERP at all. Which is silly, mind you. Very silly.

 

I am okay with folks doing romantic/sexual RP with their adult lalafell characters if they want to.

 

It's just UNIMAGINABLY awful when people try to proposition my goddamn 15 year old lalafell who very much acts like a young, derpy kid. Like, the entire point of her character is to be an adorable goofball that is the last thing you ever want to think of when boners are involved.

With regards to the bolded, that's actually (unfortunately) a fairly common fetish so you really shouldn't be surprised at that at all. If you're not interested in it personally you should be making it clear that you're not interested in it, possibly by putting a message in your search info.

[Faye]

 

Full disclosure: I engaged in ERP all the way back when I was... fuck it, I don't even remember, maybe 12? 13? To my knowledge absolutely no one has gotten in trouble for it and most people I engaged with didn't even realize I was a minor because I didn't tell them. You're fighting a losing battle if you're concerned about this sort of thing because you are entirely dependent on the word of your partner and if that's a major concern for you, you're better off not engaging in anything resembling ERP at all. Which is silly, mind you. Very silly.

 

Nononononono. I can agree that ERPing characters who are minors (post-pubescent, of course) is fine if all parties involved aren't put off by it. But OOC minors participating in RP is a huuuuuuuuuuuge no-no. Sure, chances are that if it happens, nothing awful will happen to either party. But that's certainly not always the case. Sexual contact with a minor is a very serious crime. It can get you labelled as a sex offender--which never goes away, and prevent you from living in certain areas, working in certain careers, etc. That should be a major concern. You could argue that you aren't tainting some innocent mind if you're ERPing with a 17-year-old who very obviously already knows what sex is, but even if you can write that off, you're still putting yourself out for the risk of serious trouble.

 

THAT IS EVERYTHING TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT.

 

ERPing with a minor, in the eyes of the law, is no different than having sex with a minor. You can say "But, officer, she said she was a 20-year-old catgirl!" or, "But, officer, it wasn't sexual for me at all, it was fiction, it was character development!" but law enforcement won't give one single fuck. And if you think ERPing with minors has never gotten anyone in trouble, you're wrong. A single example: an officer in my FC was actually a military investigator and once had to look into a case of someone (who, predictably, was discharged) ERPing with a minor.

[Tiergan]

I am going to elaborate on the whole RPing as a minor when you're an adult thing later when I have more time, but I just wanted to second what Faye said.

 

Just because you or people you know didn't have anything bad happen to them when ERPing with a minor, doesn't mean serious consequences haven't happened to others. It's not smart to make light of it or say that you shouldn't bother being concerned about it even if the minor can be a huge douche and lie about their age just so they can ERP.

[crowmeleon]

I understand where you're coming from, I really do. But the problem is is that the fetishization of underage characters is being normalized and pushed on people who are not comfortable with that. "Are there people out there that are only doing this sort of thing to get their rocks off? Of course, and you'd rightfully avoid them." Is EXACTLY what we're talking about. I DO get that the subject is a valid topic in terms of literary exploration. But that is not what is happening here. And I also understand that realistically speaking, these interactions will always exist to some degree. But are we really going to say that people playing underage characters "should be making it clear that you're not interested in it, possibly by putting a message in your search info."  ? After all "that's actually (unfortunately) a fairly common fetish so you really shouldn't be surprised at that at all".

 

It's a very complicated issue but what it really boils down to is that we aren't talking about a well-thought out plot exploring coming of age and young sexuality (Which in itself is debatable) portrayed in a realistic manner. We're talking about underage characters being regularly approached and pursued sexually within the community. And people are playing purposefully sexualized minors in a fetishized (Not realistic or literary in any matter) way. Which, I guess if we're okay with that I would ask that these people at least consider that many people are extremely uncomfortable with their underage characters being sexualized.

[Mae]

It doesn't matter if your supposed 15-year-old partner is from Iceland, if you're in the US and over 18(for argument's sake, most US states are 18), you could risk trouble by US authorities if the US authorities investigated you.

 

If you're a minor engaging in ERP, if you refrain from telling your 18+ partner, you can still get them in trouble if your parents find out and decide to press charges. And even if you lied to your partner and told them that you were old enough, if your parents have a good enough lawyer you still risk getting your partner branded as a sex offender.

 

As for the "only the character is a Minor" thing... it depends on so many things. Laws in the country wanting to prosecute, the explicitness of the act in question, the medium used. Big-name writers have both editors and legal teams that keep them from crossing lines, but even still some books are banned from sale (by county/town law) because they're too explicit. For example, the town I grew up in, only recently could the bookstore and public library put "Clan of the Cave Bear" on the shelves because of laws, but the rest of the Earth's Children series has been available since their original releases.

-- Random factoid I discovered on the internet: some "dating sim" games and "hentai comics" feature characters that are under 18; in their country of origin they're legal but in order for these items to be sold to other countries, localization teams change dialogues and bios to make the characters fit the regions they're selling to so consumers don't run afoul of child pornography laws.

 

Really, in the end, the whole topic is going to depend on lawyers. And if a lawyer can get a man a $3,000,000 settlement from an RV dealership because the dealership failed to inform the man that cruise control is not auto-pilot, and the man crashed his RV when he got up from behind the wheel in traffic on the highway to make a pot of coffee... yeah.

[allgivenover]

Doubtless, fetishizing is happening and shouldn't be, but this is something that really has nothing to do with RP at all. It's just a problem imported from the outside world.

 

My two points of disagreement is the idea that consenting adults could get in trouble for written portrayal, and that if there's any possibility that sexually charged RP can happen that you should age your character to whatever age your local government has deemed acceptable. That's needless and ridiculous.

[allgivenover]

As for the "only the character is a Minor" thing... it depends on so many things. Laws in the country wanting to prosecute, the explicitness of the act in question, the medium used. Big-name writers have both editors and legal teams that keep them from crossing lines

 

-- Random factoid I discovered on the internet: some "dating sim" games and "hentai comics" feature characters that are under 18; in their country of origin they're legal but in order for these items to be sold to other countries, localization teams change dialogues and bios to make the characters fit the regions they're selling to so consumers don't run afoul of child pornography laws.

 

No, they really don't in the United States at least. We have this thing called the first ammendment that criminalizing this would violate.

 

As for your random fact, it's because virtual images have since been criminalized, but not written words, no one is talking about images here.

[Tiergan]

Crowmelon pretty much covered all the things I wanted to say.

 

I am not a prude by any means. I'm as perverted and dirty-minded as they come, but I honestly feel really irritated that I apparently shouldn't be surprised by people propositioning my 15-year old, toddler-shaped innocent girl character for sex by adult-characters and actually have to stick a "No ERP" tag in my search because it's a common fetish.

 

There's a reason why we look down on a guy if he's 30 years old and propositioning a 15 year old girl - it's because there is something extremely unhealthy and dangerous about that dynamic. Even if the 30-year old guy, by some miracle, actually has good positive intentions and wants to pursue the relationship the right way (is there even a 'right way' really?), there is still so much potential for it to go horribly wrong and lead to him taking advantage of the child or doing really terrible, damaging things.

 

All of this stuff rarely, if ever, gets addressed in RP where characters that are minors are trying to engage in ERP. It's all heavily fetishized. If that floats your boat - great, but perhaps folks shouldn't be foisting their fetishes onto other people without their consent.

[PkThunda]

As someone who has clients wanting age-play: anyone who thinks that so long as the people are legal age, then it is okay to pretend otherwise is so very incredibly wrong.

 

It is unhealthy and enabling of fantasies that are dangerous.

Please do not do it.

[Tiergan]

It is unhealthy and enabling of fantasies that are dangerous.

 

This.

 

I know it's just harmless RP. I know allgivenover mentioned stuff like violence, kidnapping, murder, rape, etc that we let slide - but these are all things we inherently know are wrong and terrible. People RPing out their fetishes of sexual RP with minors don't necessarily view their RP as doing something 'wrong' or at the very least, don't often RP it as something inherently wrong. It is normalizing and enabling something that, to be frank, is a pretty big problem in the world already.

[allgivenover]

I think the sort of people that would do it to satisfy a fetish desire probably are not even reading this topic. They don't care about the merit of their RP, they are satisfying a fantasy.

 

Like I said, I'm not defending pointless ERP that involves characters under 18. I'm only saying that the idea that two consenting adults writing out text can be criminalized for it is ridiculous and the idea that it's completely untouchable because some individuals are imposing themselves on others is a little misguided and would lead to witchhunts.