So this is a thing now?

[Kage]

Your questioning it implies that there is something wrong or devious in the practice of it.

 

There is none. It's not a thing. It simply is.

 

What -is- a thing is the generosity and kindness of those who simply relinquish their plots to people, whether set up here or elsewhere. That is a thing.

[Devereau]

I think I am more on board with the system of the housing being made iffy on account of SE, and people are acting in accordance. There are a few things you can weigh or think about when making a decision, with a bit of a critical thought to work around the system. 

 

Many people have expressed their distaste with lack of availability between servers, but seeing as they implemented a similar system with weddings, and the changes in housing, it is not something in immenent lines to be fixed. 

 

With how things work, things are quite expensive, but this can benefit you both ways. People are going to pay more for stuff, and the market is going to have more flowing in and out, so the ability to make money is far more bountiful on these servers than it is on a "stable" one. 

 

Unfortunately, when a house is relinquished, it returns to maximum value minus devaluation. It is unfortunate, but the price scale of houses that are small makes them readily accessible by most people. Some people do want to have a way to make some costs back, so their only option is to sell. If someone is selling for more than house cost, such as the example of 12mil, all you can do is decide not to buy it. We must also consider that if you are going to sink 13mil into a small at this point, you also have the option of getting another extra mil or two to buy one of the free devalued mediums available.

 

This is particularly important to note, since chances are, the person selling their small house for a large amount probably wants one of those plots. By selling at a higher price, they are risking missing out on a house that you, the buyer, could wisely purchase first. There are checks and balances to all things, and as a buyer, you have much more power than perhaps you are giving credit for. 

 

If the money is too high, there are people who are kind to simply relinquish. There are also people who just relinquish without telling a soul. I know a few people snatched houses like this. I wouldn't say the sellers are always the majority, because even they are selling with risks involved. 

 

Also, it saves you from having to wake up at an ungodly hour to play the racing game, too. Some people find sleep has no monetary value too high.

[C'kayah Polaali]

My apologies for causing rancor. Please go back to your regular discussions.

[Val]

Your questioning it implies that there is something wrong or devious in the practice of it.

 

There is none. It's not a thing. It simply is.

 

What -is- a thing is the generosity and kindness of those who simply relinquish their plots to people, whether set up here or elsewhere. That is a thing.

 

See, now that actually makes no sense whatsoever. SE's housing system is their thing, and we don't have a lot of direct control over it. The practice of RPC members charging other RPC members to let them be there when they relinquish their house is a thing. It's our thing.

 

You can't look at it and say it simply is, as if we had nothing to do with it. It's part of our culture as RPC members. Part of our identity now. It's our thing because we choose to make it so.

 

I'll totally give you a discount on RP, though, Kage. 50% off my normal rates, because I like you.

 

I think it's as other people have pointed out here, honestly. It's just the way economics works. It's a commodity that is rare and people are willing to pay an expensive price for it. It's not unlike other questionable markets in the world: if no one wanted it, there would be no one paying gil for it and it wouldn't be a thing. The fact that people pay money for it means that it's at least coveted enough by an amount of people to uphold it. If people would stop paying for it, people would stop trying to sell it. 

 

Is there something wrong with it? I don't know. It's not for me to really judge. I just feel it's supply and demand at work.

[Hiro]

Your questioning it implies that there is something wrong or devious in the practice of it.

 

There is none. It's not a thing. It simply is.

 

What -is- a thing is the generosity and kindness of those who simply relinquish their plots to people, whether set up here or elsewhere. That is a thing.

 

See, now that actually makes no sense whatsoever. SE's housing system is their thing, and we don't have a lot of direct control over it. The practice of RPC members charging other RPC members to let them be there when they relinquish their house is a thing. It's our thing.

 

You can't look at it and say it simply is, as if we had nothing to do with it. It's part of our culture as RPC members. Part of our identity now. It's our thing because we choose to make it so.

 

I'll totally give you a discount on RP, though, Kage. 50% off my normal rates, because I like you.

 

 

My major issue with that mind set is that it basically says:

 

As a very small, minor part of the vast community that is Balmung and Gilgamesh (primarily these two at least) we do not want to conform with the rest of the server as a whole. Be it as a compromise or social protest to the rest of the server, we as an entitled community get to:

 

- Suffer losses that is going against a trend that extends well beyond our small community for the sake of some sort of integrity.

 

- Potentially generate a cliquish belief system that those who do not adhere to this mindset are less in-tune or "for" the community than those who opt for the perceived "good guy/gal" friendly neighbor gesture.

 

I'm not sure what the RPC Communities "thing" is supposed to be but a lot of the direction this seems to be going is dictating some sort of form of ethics on how FC's or private housing owners affiliated with the RPC should behave, as if our community sets the standard for servers, never mind what is going on in the digital economy and state thereof around us.

[C'kayah Polaali]

My apologies for causing rancor. Please go back to your regular discussions.

[Val]

And yet we, as RPers, spend a bunch of our game time in activities that:

 

a) Don't generate gil (unless you're also charging gil for your RP)

b) Are pretty damn boring unless there's at least one other person there RPing with you, also foregoing their gil generation

c) Rely on some concept of community, as they are cooperative enterprises.

 

It's almost as if we feel that there are things more important than gil, mmmm?

 

But the RP community as a whole is INCREDIBLY small. A great deal of RPers know other RPers, or at least know of those RPers through other people. Us not doing it isn't going to do anything for the community. To be honest if I had a plot to sell and someone offered me a bunch of gil for it (unless I knew them well), RPer or non-RPer, I'd sell it. Why not? I only have to gain for it and no one else is paying for my subscription but me. Since the property would belong to myself or my FC, I think it's all fair.

 

In fact, if the FC is selling the plot, I think that's even more incentive for them to sell it. Fill the FC's coffers with the profits to further supply the house that they'll inevitably upgrade to.

[C'kayah Polaali]

My apologies for causing rancor. Please go back to your regular discussions.

[Val]

You, my friend, have to pay full-price for my RP, then.

 

It'll eventually benefit Tylwyth Narah, when we move into our large house...

 

Sounds fine to me! It is, after all, how the economy works 8-)

[Hiro]

And yet we, as RPers, spend a bunch of our game time in activities that:

 

a) Don't generate gil (unless you're also charging gil for your RP)

b) Are pretty damn boring unless there's at least one other person there RPing with you, also foregoing their gil generation

c) Rely on some concept of community, as they are cooperative enterprises.

 

It's almost as if we feel that there are things more important than gil, mmmm?

 

There are certainly things more important than gil, however some people may feel the need or necessity therein to acquire it. The notion of abandoning the option of profit in this scenario largely due to basic RPC community association alienates those people who may have more than RPC ties as well. Their seeking to recoup losses for hard earned gil especially with the three points listed above being relevant in both directions tilts heavily towards something of a loss out of obligation than goodwill.

 

I could understand if your complaint were to avoid people utilizing the RPC to sell their FC or private housing in that manner, and even then if that were the case my own idea would be that as a community we're assisting our own to fulfill their duties to non-community members or friends or simply as an aspect of our community to grow within the confines of our servers state. I don't see how insisting those within the RPC forgo their ability to earn gil and improve their FC/private housing for the sake of outward integrity and protest against the current ethical state of the server economics and/or SE's poorly handled housing market is helpful at all or an improvement to our community in general. In current context it feels like a punishment or stranglehold over those who have the option to push the limits of the gil they make in transition, or that now, as a member of the RPC community we're somehow now being pressured to offer some sort of a hand out or break to others within?

 

Perhaps I haven't stated it clearly here, but right now the underlying tone of what is being considered the RPC's "thing" seems to be taking a route of intrusiveness and policy rather than a community feeling. I've always felt the RPC community was open, helpful, and laid back, I never once thought it would entail how me or my FC should be marketing our assets or what we choose to offer or not offer to the community beyond our good will, open arms, and inclusiveness.

[Delilah Scythewood]

You, my friend, have to pay full-price for my RP, then.

 

It'll eventually benefit Tylwyth Narah, when we move into our large house...

I've already challenged Kenthy that if and when you guys move into a large if she can make it not look so empty like some of the other mansions. #challengeaccepted

[ArmachiA]

If they;d give us more than 200 slots maybe the mansions wouldn't look so empty *grumbles forever*

[Kage]

If they;d give us more than 200 slots maybe the mansions wouldn't look so empty *grumbles forever*

 

... I need a house decorator ; ;

[Ilwe'ran]

See, now that actually makes no sense whatsoever. SE's housing system is their thing, and we don't have a lot of direct control over it. The practice of RPC members charging other RPC members to let them be there when they relinquish their house is a thing. It's our thing.

 

You can't look at it and say it simply is, as if we had nothing to do with it. It's part of our culture as RPC members. Part of our identity now. It's our thing because we choose to make it so.

 

I disagree completely. Wanting to impose your point of view to others for of a reason or another is a really bad thing that would only end to cause problem and to divide the really small community we are. How that ? Well, I'll just show you what would happen if we were to adopt the "As we are on RPC, we have to not sell our plot to other RPC members" rule.

 

 

• This decision will be taken but not everybody will agree -> First division of the RP community.
  
• Some would sell their plots without telling to others or without even knowing such a rule exist -> Those people will be considered as pariah and probably rejected by a part of the community.
  
• It will be seen as an offence to not offer the plot for free at the community -> Rejection / Pariah.
  
• Some people will probably begin to play the police, denouncing those selling their plots for gils.
  
• The pariah will be probably known as "the one who sold his plot" which will limitate their possibilities to integrate the community.

There is absolutly no reason at all to set anything as a rule. A rule like this is extremely toxic as it imposes some behaviors / point of view and will, in any case, divide the population.

 

Fortunatly, you are free to do what you want with your belongings and it's not because it's made out of pixels that it should suddenly not having any value. As I said before, I disagree with those using the other people to make money out of them. I think it's normal to deal with the system as it and to sell your plot whole or a part of what you paid and I think it's not normal to introduce a rule which will divide the community between the good people who give their plot and the bad ones who sell it. 'Cause, lets be serious a minute, it's not because you sell your plot that you're a despicable person.

[C'kayah Polaali]

My apologies for causing rancor. Please go back to your regular discussions.

[Kage]

I've stated quite a few times that I don't think anyone is a despicable person for wanting to sell access to buy their plots, nor am I suggesting that we have to choose a unified front here, or agree to rules. I do find it interesting how vehement some of the arguments are, though. That's telling.

....

But, like I said before, I'm not interested in rules, or in forcing my views on anyone else. I was merely concerned about what I saw as an unfortunate thing, and wondered if this is something that we should all accept. It appears my question has been answered in the affirmative: This is a thing now.

But you are doing almost exactly that, if even it is the act. You have made the judgment that the act is wrong when in fact it is what it is. There is no right or wrong to this situation.

 

The only wrong that can be extrapolated is when someone full on asks for 7-10mil for a small plot. I saw someone selling a small plot in the Mist just today for 7.5mil. My reaction was to scoff because the very idea of someone actually purchasing a plot for that price is absurd. No one here is saying that anyone will be paying the seller more than the original's plot worth. The seller is not purely benefiting from it.

 

You may not be outright stating that you're not judging anyone but you're definitely judging their actions. But yes you are right, no one else really thinks it's a bad thing. People who have done generous things will still continue to do generous things. That is a thing and always has been. Just because they do not does not mean their actions are wrong or bad. Or even anything to make a thread about.

 

I mean I bought an FC and then sold it and the plot. What did I sell it for? 2mil. If i sold my current house I'd probably sell it for the lowest the plots devalue to. Will I give it up for free? Depends. On many factors. Is it easy for an FC of X amount of people to make more gil than a single person? Depends on many factors but it's usually a "yes". So do I think that it's easier for an FC to just eat the costs as an act of generosity for fellow RP FCs? Definitely. Do I expect individuals to act the same? I think it's a boon if so. Do I have a judgment on any other action of the sale? The only judgment I have is when you sell a small plot for 7mil+ and a person still needs to buy the plot. But if a person is desperate or in my mind insane enough to do so, that is on them.

[C'kayah Polaali]

My apologies for causing rancor. Please go back to your regular discussions.

[Warren Castille]

I'm judging the culture we've developed here. I'm not judging any individual.

 

Well, let's be honest. I'm not judging any individual publicly. We all judge people privately.

 

I'm not sure it's accurate to say "our" or "we" or "us" when people have been selling FCs and houses since they were a thing. PF sees "Selling rank 8 FC w/ house" regularly enough that it's not entirely fair to call it an RPC thing.

 

Edit: I found a reddit link trying to sell a house in February. When did housing come out again...?

 

Here's another reddit thread discussing how to sell houses from five months ago.

[C'kayah Polaali]

My apologies for causing rancor. Please go back to your regular discussions.

[Warren Castille]

I'm not sure if it's just me or what, but there's a definite tone in your language and phrasing that makes it feel pretty clear you're thumbing your nose at anyone considering this to be acceptable. My bringing up Reddit IS curious, if only because I don't care at all for the website iota one and googling "selling a house ffxiv" brought up those pages in about 0.000001 seconds.

 

You keep trying to make this about the RPC. It isn't about the RPC.

[Kage]

From the tone and language, it's clear that what he wants and expects us to say is that RPC members should only ever relinquish the land [personal plots] for free especially for a fellow RPC member.

 

Otherwise, it's part of a bad culture.

[Gegenji]

All I can say is I hope that SE implements a way for an owner to directly sell their house to someone or get some sort of recoup for relinquishing their hold on the plot. I'm bad enough at getting cash monies in MMOs as it is, and having to save up for effectively twice the value or more is quite daunting for me. I just want a place I can decorate and make my own (or Chachan's own, in this case).

 

... Maybe I can find a nice going rate on a cardboard box in Pearl Lane.

 

(Or finally get the kid in a FC so he can have his own room and decorate that.)

[Kage]

All I can say is I hope that SE implements a way for an owner to directly sell their house to someone or get some sort of recoup for relinquishing their hold on the plot. I'm bad enough at getting cash monies in MMOs as it is, and having to save up for effectively twice the value or more is quite daunting for me. I just want a place I can decorate and make my own (or Chachan's own, in this case).

 

... Maybe I can find a nice going rate on a cardboard box in Pearl Lane.

 

(Or finally get the kid in a FC so he can have his own room and decorate that.)

I don't know if you want the whole house deal, but the personal rooms are 300k iirc which you may get by joining an FC with your Balmung friends!!

 

Otherwise, I'm sorry I don't have a small plot for you T_T

[Warren Castille]

From the tone and language, it's clear that what he wants and expects us to say is that RPC members should only ever relinquish the land [personal plots] for free especially for a fellow RPC member.

 

Otherwise, it's part of a bad culture.

 

Then he should just own his opinion and state it. This pussyfooting double-think culture nonsense is transparent and hostile.

[Gegenji]

All I can say is I hope that SE implements a way for an owner to directly sell their house to someone or get some sort of recoup for relinquishing their hold on the plot. I'm bad enough at getting cash monies in MMOs as it is, and having to save up for effectively twice the value or more is quite daunting for me. I just want a place I can decorate and make my own (or Chachan's own, in this case).

 

... Maybe I can find a nice going rate on a cardboard box in Pearl Lane.

 

(Or finally get the kid in a FC so he can have his own room and decorate that.)

I don't know if you want the whole house deal, but the personal rooms are 300k iirc which you may get by joining an FC with your Balmung friends!!

 

Otherwise, I'm sorry I don't have a small plot for you T_T

 

Haha, yeah, I'll probably end up trying to join Coral (with all the cool kids like his best buddy Ms. Hat) and get myself a personal room. Then I'll spend even less time actually leveling the characters and doing more dress-up and room decorating.

 

I don't know what I'd do with a full house, really.