Thoughts on the Au Ra?

[Iex]

Honestly... you cannot apply real world science to a land of magic.

 

Furthermore, I know quite a bit of people irl who only go up to the shoulder's of the opposite gender. Variation like that can only have a certain extent of demonstration in a game. In FFXIV (except for Lalafell) even the max height of a female of any race is only a couple inches at best taller than a minimum height of the male counterpart. It is a standard set by the artistic team. The Au Ra are a bit of an extreme example of this but still fall into the standard.

 

As for the physical traits differing from the rest of the races, there actually is less than people seem to think.

 

The head shape actually is quite similar to each other by what limited pictures we have. The female head is slightly more rounded which is more fitting for a shape of the body they have, while the male is slightly more oval to fit the taller build, but both come to a "point" at the chin. It is harder to see on the males because instead of facial hair they have the scales along their chin which gives them the rougher look everyone wishes the females had.  Once again this is present in all races, females have rounder heads while men have more oval or square. If anything the Au Ra are closer together than others because their jaw shape is very similar.

 

The horns: They are different, no denying that, but what is the problem with having different horns for the sexes. Lots of games give gender specific traits, but as for the SIZE. If we were to shrink down the height of the male to the height of the female, I believe that the horns would be proportionally similar in size. However directionally they will be different.

 

The brow: Females have a softer brow than the males. That is once again an artistic standard for every race. While for some of them (elezen and Miqote) (excluding Lalafell because there is relatively zero difference between male and female in comparison to other races) you can give the male a very soft brow, as standard male of all races have a firmer brow.

 

The eyes: Eye style is very, very varied between options, but once again a standard of 'softer and more round eyes' exists for all females. THE EXCEPTION being Roegadyn where it is the inverse. Males have the rounder and somewhat softer eyes, while females have the piercing narrow eyes.

 

The Noses: Noses in general are weird and EXTREMELY varied between the options we see. If anything there is nigh zero dimorphism between the male and female pictured short of the size of height of the bridge of the nose, which is once again present on all races in character creator or not depending on the nose you pick.

 

Ears: I didn't see any ears on Au Ra... just horns.

 

Lip: Going through character creator, once again I noticed a trend: Pale lips for men that are 'flat' and pursed lips with color for women. Now I know you can change lips in the character creator to give men larger lips... but since we are going off 'standards' and the pictures we are given, the lips are actually less dimorphic than the rest of the races.

 

Poses: Yes the poses they provided seem to provide different personalities to the genders.

 

Builds: This is the only truly dimorphic aspect that does not fit perfectly into the present art style, or does it? Look at Roegadyn, Massive Hulking men, but in comparison slender females. In all races, (except Lalafell because zero difference) the females of this particular art style are always more slender and less broad. Even highlander females look petite compared to the male counterparts.

 

So... really the only thing extremely different is the Height and Horns. Likely the issue of dimorphic differences is because both females possess a pale complexion compared to the males of darker color, which gives the feeling of porcelain dolls. However, we all know better. The character creator has zero limitations between make and female skin tones.

[Warren Castille]

science

 

but tumblr taught me these words they can't be wrong

[Aaron]

Everyone knows once you put a quote on a internet picture it's true.

 

Someone say Au Ra are Shiva kids! Quick!

[Oli!]

So... really the only thing extremely different is the Height and Horns.

 

 

Our point of disappointment, now summarized for your viewing pleasure.

[Berrod Armstrong]

Something other than going MNEH.

Yay research with documented results!

[Whittledown]

This just occured to me after a decade of playing MMO's with extreme sexual dimorphism between the males and females.

 

Giant male + Tiny female of the same race can only lead to one reasonable conclusion. Those Giant males have to have genitalia compatibale with a tiny female. So that giant Au Ra dude must have a relatively tiny wang so as to be appropriate to the task of breeding.

 

Huh.

[Naunet]

stuff about dimorphism

 

I'm honestly unsure how you can look at the bodies, posture, features, and faces of the males and females and say that they are similar. o.0 The males are all angles, lanky limbs, sharp features, large and distinctive draconic parts. The females are soft and round with no muscle to speak of, horns that look more like hair ornaments, and barely discernible scales. >_>

[Berrod Armstrong]

This just occured to me after a decade of playing MMO's with extreme sexual dimorphism between the males and females.

 

Giant male + Tiny female of the same race can only lead to one reasonable conclusion.  Those Giant males have to have genitalia compatibale with a tiny female.  So that giant Au Ra dude must have a relatively tiny wang so as to be appropriate to the task of breeding.

 

Huh.

Don't listen to her, my little Au Ra princess! If Shiva could deal with a Bad Dragon, SO CAN YOU

[Berrod Armstrong]

stuff about dimorphism

 

I'm honestly unsure how you can look at the bodies, posture, features, and faces of the males and females and say that they are similar. o.0 The males are all angles, lanky limbs, sharp features, large and distinctive draconic parts. The females are soft and round with no muscle to speak of, horns that look more like hair ornaments, and barely discernible scales. >_>

If you're unsure then you probably didn't read the post properly. He broke it down element by element and basically demonstrated that it's no more of a big deal than any of the other races.

[Naunet]

Y'know, now that I think about it, I think I would have preferred if the guys had been designed in a way that conformed to the girls. There are no dainty, fragile, non-muscle-bound men in this game. This would have been an excellent opportunity.

 

But nope.

 

If you're unsure then you probably didn't read the post properly. He broke it down element by element and basically demonstrated that it's no more of a big deal than any of the other races.

 

No, I read his post quite thoroughly. And I disagree on pretty much every assertion. They do not look the same. I'll also point out that one of the chief complaints is that "big male/tiny female" is an overplayed design trope, so attempting to point out other races that may conform to it doesn't exactly do the defense much good.

[Berrod Armstrong]

Y'know, now that I think about it, I think I would have preferred if the guys had been designed in a way that conformed to the girls. There are no dainty, fragile, non-muscle-bound men in this game. This would have been an excellent opportunity.

 

But nope.

I would love that! I've been wanting to play a daintyboy for so long -- the closest I could get to that was elezen, but they still have the somewhat muscular male builds. Then again, I think that's a matter of them not having body types for each race outside of their different clans (maybe). 

 

Maybe they'll give us lithe and trembly bunnyboys someday. Until then, I'm pretty happy with what we've got!

 

highlander forever yes good

[Iex]

stuff about dimorphism

 

I'm honestly unsure how you can look at the bodies, posture, features, and faces of the males and females and say that they are similar. o.0 The males are all angles, lanky limbs, sharp features, large and distinctive draconic parts. The females are soft and round with no muscle to speak of, horns that look more like hair ornaments, and barely discernible scales. >_>

http://imgur.com/a/MUEoR#5 Female

http://imgur.com/a/MUEoR#6 Male

 

They possess the exact same location for scales save for the 'facial hair.' The male happens to be showing more skin, and the paler skin makes the color of the scales harder to see.  I am not denying the horn differences, if that is your problem with the race I really can't say anything about it. There IS a horn difference.

 

Honestly, the Au Ra compared to Roegadyn and Highlanders aren't so defined in terms of muscle. The have big arms, but otherwise are rather lithe.

 

My post was mostly to demonstrate that the dimorphic nature of all the races is present due to the art style of FFXIV. They are being true to their art style. What happened was folks assuming that the race was going to be beastly and latching on to it like a vise. No where did the they promise anything but a race unique to FFXIV.

 

The Au Ra fall directly in line with the rest of the races in differences between male and female. (excluding Lalafell cause... I can't even tell the difference short of hair style sometimes).

[Aaron]

This just occured to me after a decade of playing MMO's with extreme sexual dimorphism between the males and females.

 

Giant male + Tiny female of the same race can only lead to one reasonable conclusion.  Those Giant males have to have genitalia compatibale with a tiny female.  So that giant Au Ra dude must have a relatively tiny wang so as to be appropriate to the task of breeding.

 

Huh.

They only need 3 in----

 

Nope.

[Berrod Armstrong]

Y'know, now that I think about it, I think I would have preferred if the guys had been designed in a way that conformed to the girls. There are no dainty, fragile, non-muscle-bound men in this game. This would have been an excellent opportunity.

 

But nope.

 

If you're unsure then you probably didn't read the post properly. He broke it down element by element and basically demonstrated that it's no more of a big deal than any of the other races.

 

No, I read his post quite thoroughly. And I disagree on pretty much every assertion. They do not look the same. I'll also point out that one of the chief complaints is that "big male/tiny female" is an overplayed design trope, so attempting to point out other races that may conform to it doesn't exactly do the defense much good.

Except that he didn't say they look the same, he said that there isn't much of a difference -- and compared what differences there were to the differences seen in the males and females of the other races. As for the big male/tiny female overplayed trope: it's standard, it's part of their art style and it isn't going to change unless someone who wants to change it gets in there and changes it!

[TheLastCandle]

My favorite* example of sexual dimorphism? Lineage II dwarves.

 

 

 

 

 

*By favorite, I mean "Lolwat?"

[Zyrusticae]

They do not look the same. I'll also point out that one of the chief complaints is that "big male/tiny female" is an overplayed design trope, so attempting to point out other races that may conform to it doesn't exactly do the defense much good.

That's the funny thing, really. If your best defense is 'it's always been this way'! when the WHOLE ARGUMENT is about the fact that it's always been that way, obviously you really need to re-read the whole premise of the argument.

 

The whole "make your own game!" bullshit is sickening, btw. No, I don't HAVE to somehow scrounge up a hundred million dollars and build an entire studio from the ground up to make my own bloody MMORPG JUST FOR THE SAKE OF BETTER CHARACTER VARIETY. Come ON!

 

Crap like that is why I tend to complain about things out of spite. People trying to silence me with the most inane and completely irrelevant arguments that have nothing to do with anything other than trying to shut me up because they don't wanna hear it. If you're going to be contrary then at least present an actual argument instead of just being flippant.

[Flickering Ember]

We don't even know if the Au Ra come from this alleged union so it's just thought exercise since SE decided to give us all pictures and no words.

 

I beat the "realism" drum around here a lot and will continue to do so, but once things clearly become magical it's a lot easier to let go of the argument.

 

...do you think she laid eggs, though?

I HAD AN EXTREMELY VIVID AND MIND-BREAKING MENTAL PICTURE OF THAT -- and then I realized human women squeeze out kids. Suddenly an egg don't seem so bad...

 

 

Except, y'know...maybe it was a clutch of eggs.... O_O

 

...oh gods, why am I doing this to my brains?

It would explain why there are suddenly so many Au Ra coming from the same parents…

[Berrod Armstrong]

They do not look the same. I'll also point out that one of the chief complaints is that "big male/tiny female" is an overplayed design trope, so attempting to point out other races that may conform to it doesn't exactly do the defense much good.

That's the funny thing, really. If your best defense is 'it's always been this way'! when the WHOLE ARGUMENT is about the fact that it's always been that way, obviously you really need to re-read the whole premise of the argument.

 

The whole "make your own game!" bullshit is sickening, btw. No, I don't HAVE to somehow scrounge up a hundred million dollars and build an entire studio from the ground up to make my own bloody MMORPG JUST FOR THE SAKE OF BETTER CHARACTER VARIETY. Come ON!

 

Crap like that is why I tend to complain about things out of spite. People trying to silence me with the most inane and completely irrelevant arguments that have nothing to do with anything other than trying to shut me up because they don't wanna hear it. If you're going to be contrary then at least present an actual argument instead of just being flippant.

No one is silencing anyone. As sickening as it seems, it is the cold hard truth. If change is too happen, the best thing to do is get up and make it. I'll thank you not to insinuate that I'm trying to silence anyone.

[Naunet]

and it isn't going to change unless someone who wants to change it gets in there and changes it!

 

They are perfectly capable of changing it, and they (I suppose this could apply to the industry as a whole, as well) may be convinced to change if enough people speak up about it.

 

I'm with Zyrusticae in that.

 

No one is silencing anyone. As sickening as it seems, it is the cold hard truth. If change is too happen, the best thing to do is get up and make it. I'll thank you not to insinuate that I'm trying to silence anyone.

 

You can't expect us to be capable of pushing into an industry that is likely neither of our specializations. Not everyone is a professional artist, and people who aren't have opinions that matter, too.

[Warren Castille]

So we have someone not giving SE money for the game they're objecting to and the person admitting they're complaining out of spite who want these changes in the SE-approved design.

 

I bid you good luck.

[Havoc Snow]

There are no dainty, fragile, non-muscle-bound men in this game.

My Lalafell alt would like to have a word with you.

 

Edit: Regarding reasons for why Yugiri hid her appearance, and why she thought it might shock people. If you pay attention to the storyline, every Doman she arrived with is a Hyur (All Midlander as far as I saw), and she comes from a continent that is completely dominated by the Garlean Empire, which is also made up entirely of Hyur (assuming that the whole third eye race is just another subrace of Hyur like Midlander and Highlander).

 

Garleans have also demonstrated that they are incredibly Xenophobic with their hatred for Beast Tribes. For all we know they may share an equal hatred for races like the Miqo'te who still share physical traits with animals. With this in mind, perhaps her and her entire race have lived in fear of persecution for a long time now, and expected the same sort of attitude when she arrived in Eorzea.

 

Even if her appearance is not that shocking to us as the players, she never breaks the fourth wall and says "I'm hiding my face because it will shock the player" she is doing it because despite the wide range of races already living in Eorzea, none of them look like her (even if you want to continue arguing she looks like a Hyur with horns).

 

She's also a Ninja and her role in the story so far has been to remain hidden, observe our enemies, and not draw attention to herself. It goes without saying that a Dragon Girl, especially when she is the only Dragon Girl, would draw a shit ton of attention to themselves.

 

In short, I don't think it has anything to do with hiding from Ishgard, I am almost certain she had no knowledge of Ishgard before coming to Eorzea, she also makes an appearance at the Snowcloak entrance if I remember correctly and the freaking Templars don't even bat an eye at the scaled tail or horn protrusions from her hood. If she was so worried about Ishgard finding out who or what she was, she would have never set foot in Coerthas.

 

On top of this, there is absolutely no mention of Shiva ever having kids. That is a very VERY important detail that either the Heretics, or Ishgard would have been all over. A race of Dragons who could potentially blend in with your people and slip through your defenses would have been on their #1 to kill list, an with all the information they have already on Saint Shiva it's hard to believe they weren't aware that she apparently gave birth to enough dragonkin to sire an entire race, or that there were dragon orgies going on on the other side. It all becomes incredibly hard to believe.

 

No, I am much more likely to believe that the Au Ra are just another race that existed outside of Eorzea migrating to it now, after all it's pretty much the same thing that happened with literally every other race.

[Berrod Armstrong]

So we have someone not giving SE money for the game they're objecting to and the person admitting they're complaining out of spite who want these changes in the SE-approved design.

 

I bid you good luck.

[Flickering Ember]

Eh, I find questioning why someone is not making their own games to be like questioning why someone is roleplaying [insert the most popular fantasy race in a MMO here]. A person roleplays a miqo'te, or a human, or a blood elf because they want to and shouldn't have to be drilled for doing so. At the same time, those of us who chose different career paths shouldn't need to be told that if we want to see change then we have to make a career change.

 

It's an issue that needs to be met halfway on. Better representation of minorities is a hot topic in gaming right now. On one hand, developers should try to be inclusive. (Despite my complaints against Au Ra, SE has so far been inclusive with the inclusion of female highlanders and roegadyn + gay marriage) On the other hand, it is also true that we need to be the change we want to see and part of that is getting more minorities into career fields where they might be low.

 

If you're my age, late 20's, then it's probably too late to say "hey, go be a game developer if you want to see change". A lot of us at this age have already gone to school and chosen our career paths. In a country where college can put you into a debt comparable to a house mortgage, it's not very practical. I see it as kind of a lost cause for the 20-something gamer. But for the young kid/high schooler, encouraging them to become game developers is a lot more practical.

 

In the end, we need a more diverse pool of game developers, but for those of us who missed the chance or like our current career fields, we got to support what we want to see in gaming in different ways.

[Aya]

No one is silencing anyone. As sickening as it seems, it is the cold hard truth. If change is too happen, the best thing to do is get up and make it. I'll thank you not to insinuate that I'm trying to silence anyone.

Okay.. I don't follow this argument at all.  You're not allowed to criticise anything unless you're prepared to make it yourself?

 

Don't complain about hardware unless you're ready to go into the semi-conductor business?

 

Don't complain about a car unless you're ready to go into the automobile business?

 

Don't complain about cruddy airlines unless you're ready to start your own?

 

Don't complain about the weather unless you're prepared to create your own universe?

[Berrod Armstrong]

No one is silencing anyone. As sickening as it seems, it is the cold hard truth. If change is too happen, the best thing to do is get up and make it. I'll thank you not to insinuate that I'm trying to silence anyone.

Okay.. I don't follow this argument at all.  You're not allowed to criticise anything unless you're prepared to make it yourself?

 

Don't complain about hardware unless you're ready to go into the semi-conductor business?

 

Don't complain about a car unless you're ready to go into the automobile business?

 

Don't complain about cruddy airlines unless you're ready to start your own?

 

Don't complain about the weather unless you're prepared to create your own universe?

In the very post you quoted I said that I was not silencing anyone. I had said, in my post before that, that if change is wanted, the best thing one can do is get up, get in there and change it. 

 

I will not have my words twisted on account of knee-jerk indignation. I know people expect snide responses and mean replies to those sorts of things, but I just said something that is true. 

 

 

We can complain. Hell, I bitch up a storm about enough myself. However. Change will not come without meaningful initiative. It's not easy, and sometimes people have to leave it to those who come after to pick up where they left off. I'm speaking from experience on that one, too.

 

Otherwise, things are just going to stay the same for us to complain about some more.