On Age

[Verad]

What are the participants here even arguing about at this point?

[Edvyn]

What are the participants here even arguing about at this point?

the law and how it is bad or something

[Ette]

What are the participants here even arguing about at this point?

the law and how it is bad or something

It's like uh. . . Something something open hostility towards laws put in place to protect minors or. . . ??? Lord, I'unno anymore.

[Seriphyn]

I love pedestrian politics!

[ChewableMorphine]

I like to eat glue.

[Faye]

At this point, I have to remind people that being outed as a "child molester" for ERPing is basically an impossible scenario. If the parents find out, it's the kid who gets in trouble. No parent is going to go as far as trying to connect a character name to a real person (something that is, frankly, impossible) when all they need to do is keep the kid off of the game. And possibly ground them from any text-based instant messaging programs entirely for a month or three.

 

Nononono absolutely no, ERPing with a RL minor is very, very illegal in the US, and there are certainly parents who WILL get the authorities involved and pursue legal actions. It is very far from impossible, to the point that I can promise you it has happened before and could easily happen again.

[Coatleque]

I like to eat glue.

 

But we already knew...

[ChewableMorphine]

I like to eat glue.

 

I like to eat glue too

[Zyrusticae]

Nononono absolutely no' date=' ERPing with a RL minor is very, very illegal in the US, and there are certainly parents who WILL get the authorities involved and pursue legal actions. It is very far from impossible, to the point that I can promise you it [i']has[/i] happened before and could easily happen again.

The problem with claims like this is that no one ever actually cites such an event. Until one is produced I will continue to assume it to be standard paranoid hyperbole borne from other, similar-but-not-related events.

 

It's like uh. . . Something something open hostility towards laws put in place to protect minors or. . . ??? Lord, I'unno anymore.

That laws are overbroad, overbearing, and overly harsh and often don't actually serve to protect minors in any sensible fashion, especially because most of the measures are taken after it becomes extremely obvious that something has happened to the child.

 

Remember, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. The justice system is currently set up entirely for the latter, and is very poorly equipped for the former.

[Coatleque]

I would like to point out that I was not advocating for anyone to break the law. The whole point of my post was to examine why someone is actually bothered by this behavior, NOT to question if it should be illegal or otherwise.

 

The fact that a law exists does NOT breed animosity against a behavior. And it is not bred through biology as we've already examined - else nature would have pushed puberty to an older age by now to compensate. The revulsion is instead a learned behavior, and what I was trying to elude to is that the source of this learning should be examined for truth and validity.

 

To say "it is wrong because I feel it is wrong" is a blank statement. It is akin to a parent saying "You will do this because I said so". Accepting it as fact is no different than brainwashing.

[Dat Oni]

I would like to point out that I was not advocating for anyone to break the law. The whole point of my post was to examine why someone is actually bothered by this behavior, NOT to question if it should be illegal or otherwise.

 

I'm afraid I'm with Coatleque in this discussion and frankly, I'm appalled that anyone would take her statements in such a way. Hell, it confuses me, greatly. 

[Arelian Solin]

Nononono absolutely no, ERPing with a RL minor is very, very illegal in the US, and there are certainly parents who WILL get the authorities involved and pursue legal actions. It is very far from impossible, to the point that I can promise you it has happened before and could easily happen again.

The problem with claims like this is that no one ever actually cites such an event. Until one is produced I will continue to assume it to be standard paranoid hyperbole borne from other, similar-but-not-related events.

 

It's like uh. . . Something something open hostility towards laws put in place to protect minors or. . . ??? Lord, I'unno anymore.

That laws are overbroad, overbearing, and overly harsh and often don't actually serve to protect minors in any sensible fashion, especially because most of the measures are taken after it becomes extremely obvious that something has happened to the child.

 

Remember, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. The justice system is currently set up entirely for the latter, and is very poorly equipped for the former.

I'm trying to parse this without being a total asshole and I'm, quite honestly, failing. So here goes.

 

First off, it does happen. I knew a number of people who's parents actively chased off online sexual predators with the threat of legal action if their child was not left alone. Can I cite sources? Absolutely not. Why? Because 9 times out of 10, you aren't going to be privy to the dirty details about how the individuals met or the situation that led directly up to the arrest. 

 

A parent that punishes their child for failing to tell an adult (someone who should, in all circumstances know better) no is a parent that I have a hard time believing is anything other than a minority. I know it's popular to paint most parents in a fairly negative and negligent light, but the overwhelming majority of people I've come into over the duration of my life have been vicious fucking beasts the moment they feel like their child is being threatened, especially by an adult. 

 

 

Secondly, fuck you. The law is not overly harsh in regards to dealing with people that willfully and knowingly take advantage of a minor. I don't care how mature you think you are. A teenager wants nothing more than to be considered an adult and "fit in" and will oftentimes go to great lengths to be seen in a positive light by someone that can vindicate those feelings. It is the adult's responsibility (yes, the legal adult) to not take advantage of a person that is, for all intents and purposes, fairly easy to take advantage of. Maybe it's just me, but I have a hard time imagining a world where someone is willfully flirting with someone under the age of 16-17 without some kind of ulterior motive. Is that to say that you can't have a meaningful friendship with someone that's underage? Absolutely not! But it's also fairly easy to have a friend that you never romantically or sexually advance on in any way.

 

Honestly, what do you want. A Minority Report situation? Every single negative behavior can only be addressed after the behavior has come to light. Can we do better in regards to protecting a minor from ever dealing with the situation? Absolutely. Certainly. We can always do better. 

 

All that said, I do agree with Coatleque 100%. It's always worth examining why you think something is reprehensible/unacceptable before you act on that. Especially if you're hoping for other people to go along with your feelings on the matter.

[allgivenover]

lol Here we go again.

 

Watch out guys, the police are coming to arrest you for writing naughty words! Some girl in a video claimed it happened without providing any evidence, so it must be true.

[Arelian Solin]

Also, do people not remember To Catch a Predator? 

 

The people that got arrested during that program did not do anything beyond post lewd messages and messages of a sexual-nature to a minor (or someone they believed was a minor). They didn't have to touch a teenager or child to be prosecuted.

 

WHERE'D THE TOPIC OF THE THREAD GO? WHO KNOWS!

[allgivenover]

Uh.. they showed up at what they thought was a child's house. That's way more than just lewd text messages to an underage person. 

 

Not that the latter is any sort of real problem in the RP community.

[Faye]

If anyone seriously thinks that sending sexual messages to an underaged person isn't illegal, you seriously need to re-examine in the law. Perhaps it's simply that for a while I was pursuing a degree in education, or that I'm dating a fellow with a degree and career in criminal justice, or that for some time I was a moderator on a site where minors ERPing was becoming a serious issue, but it's been drilled into my head that ERPing with minors is a very serious issue and can in fact leave you with fines, jail time, and potentially a permanent sex offender status. As for citing it... I'm not sure what I can do to prove it to anyone who's going to refuse to believe it? I don't spend my time researching court cases and keeping links on hand to cite them. I can tell you that an officer in my FC was a military investigator, and once had a case where a soldier was accused of ERPing with an underaged girl and was discharged for it, though I believe he said that in the end, the girl's parents decided not to press charges. Though, for anyone blindly against believing it and for some reason attacking laws in place to protect minors, I'm sure an anecdote won't be good enough.

[ChewableMorphine]

a soldier was accused of ERPing with an underaged girl and was discharged for it

 

[citation needed]

[Kage]

Jesus fucking christ. I don't think anyone was arguing against making sure that IRL minors were protected from those who may mean them harm.

 

You can stop fucking posting in a thread if you feel like it needs to stop and gtfo instead of derailing it with a bunch of dumbass shit.

 

The -main- issue of this thread are the moments where an RP under-18 character would do things that the RL current societies view as taking advantage of minors. Eorzea is not the real world.

 

If someone has a problem with someone doing stuff that they view that they should not do under-18 they can remove themselves from the RP.

[Alothia]

Guys. Keep the stuff on topic. I'm moving all of the other posts out of here.

[Flashhelix]

You can stop farting posting in a thread if you feel like it needs to stop and gtforko instead of derailing it with a bunch of dumbastrology shitzu.

 

censored for minors

[Alothia]

Alright. Last warning. Please keep this on topic or I'm gonna have to lock it.

[Kage]

Alright. Last warning. Please keep this on topic or I'm gonna have to lock it.

You realize that is what they want?

 

Edit: This is what happens in these threads. People decide to start derailing it and instead of dealing with the derailment, topics just get locked up.

 

On-OFF-topic cause this isn't even what the OP was about: I'm not advocating for sexual predators but reminder that To Catch a Predator also faced harsh criticism for entrapment. Also, based on hearsay, I've read stories of when people reported that they had serious consequences because they went to a -bar- where people who need to be a certain age with certain IDs and only even just started flirting with a minor who was -lying- about their age. The guy's life became messed up over it (also because he didn't have a lawyer and didn't know his rights).

[Hyakki]

The -main- issue of this thread are the moments where an RP under-18 character would do things that the RL current societies view as taking advantage of minors. Eorzea is not the real world.

 

Lore-wise, the laws of the real world might not apply but they do apply to the game as a whole, it would not be allowed in most regions otherwise.

[Alothia]

I do understand that. However, with the way that the conversation has devolved in the past two pages, it looks like the 'conversation' itself is doing that enough as it is. Also, I'd rather inform people that there's the potential for locking before I do it. I'd like to give people the opportunity to change their tone.

 

People need to stop calling each other names, take a step back, and leave this thread alone for a while, IMHO.

 

No good is going to come of people getting into heated debate over a topic like this. Mind you the heated part. Debate is all fine and dandy, as long as we're not calling each other names and such.

 

I'm just gonna watch this for a bit. I suggest if you feel like making a post that might come off as being harsh or insulting, you need to take a step back from the keyboard for a bit.

[Kage]

The -main- issue of this thread are the moments where an RP under-18 character would do things that the RL current societies view as taking advantage of minors. Eorzea is not the real world.

 

Lore-wise, the laws of the real world might not apply but they do apply to the game as a whole, it would not be allowed in most regions otherwise.

 

Shall we start policing alcohol statements and character deaths IC character deaths? This is about players' uncomfortable feelings over what other players are doing with their characters and wanting to make others do their own due diligence.

 

If so worried, stop randomly flirting with people at a bar without talking to them first. When finding out, drop it and run walk away from the RP. It can easily be done ICly or OOCly. "Character dropped his flask in shock, shaking his head vehemently. 'Oh Twelve yer 16?! Ye but a wee lass this stops now.'"

 

There's a difference in this topic where people are approaching people not knowing the characters' age and people knowingly doing so with people who make it clear their character is X age.