The Axe and am I doing it right?

[Kurt S.]

Now you may be wondering why I'm asking here and not on some other forums. I'm not 100% sure myself but I'm not about to go tackle Coil neither since I hear that's where the best of the best are and they expect you to be the best of the best too. I'll just be the WoD runner that I am yeah...

 

Maybe cuz the time I first tasted endgame content left a bad taste in my mouth when everyone was il100something while I was a i48ish pleb tanking and losing aggro on fucking WP and don't wanna taste that again.

 

Nah, I just want ask a few questions and run a diagnostic on my thought pattern whenever I'm tanking stuff on Kurt. I mean I got him to i105 and I feel great now that I don't get yelled 99% of the time(for losing aggro you nub) especially since they put back ilevel caps. 

 

Suppose I'm not the MT for any given run and delegated to OT. Wooh!

 

-Should I have Defiance on or off? Thing is even if I'm not the MT in a run I still have Defiance on for the crit boost as well maintaining an orange aggro level just in case the MT dies so I know the Aggro can easily shift to me with just an overpower or so. Well you get the question, Defiance on or off? Crit boost or flat DPS? Also Unchained. 

 

-Let's say the MT is a PLD, am I doing it right by simply going Storm's Eye essentially 90% of the time and just keep refreshing Storm's Path(because I think the PLD needs more mitigation) and Fracture or should I just go Storm's Eye 100% of the time because the other two might just waste my TP anyway. 

 

-Should I be asking for goad or just auto-attack until my TP regenerates?

 

-Berserk should be popped when exactly? I mean I pop it when I'm like stupidly low on TP but should I be popping it earlier?

 

Suppose I am the MT because some genius thought it would be smart to put a i105 nub as MT. 

 

-Overpower>Flash>Overpower>Flash>Overpower>Flash>Overpower after I do a Tomahawk to grab the mob that is and sometimes the mob after it. Thoughts? This is under the condition that Infuriate is on CD and I just used a Steel Cyclone prior to the encounter. Question is, am I overpowering too much or am I overpowering too little?

 

-Popping CDs when I'm at like 50% HP or grabbing more than 1 mob group at a time? Or do I just hit those CDs every time they go off CD?

 

-Provoke, do I lob a hawk at the enemy if he's distant or Holmgang his ass to me? On the one hand lobbing birds at it is practical, on the other being scorpion is Kool too. 

 

-Is it practical to slot in a Fracture in between my BB/SP combos just to boost DPS or should I keep my eyes on the prize and keep smacking the thing to keep aggro? 

 

-On the cross class front, Convalescence..do I even need it with all my lifesteal? Not that I have any other cross class to take.

 

-Thrill of Battle, when's a good time to pop it? I usually do mine when I hit like 30%ish HP. 

 

-Berserk should be popped when exactly? I mean I pop it when I'm like stupidly low on TP but should I be popping it earlier?

[Chris Ganale]

I'm by no means a good tank so my advice is probably all out of whack, but as far as multi-tank group content goes, my rule of thumb is if I'm not MT, I just ensure that next to my name in my party list is a little number 1 on the boss's threat, that way if the MT drops he goes to me and I can pick up the slack until either the MT gets him back or it dies (usually the latter). To that end I start an engagement in Defiance, then tick it off once I've gotten a good head of steam above my party. And I'm partially OCD so I never tick it off if I have any Wrath built up until I get to 5 and then use Inner Beast or something. But I would say if you're not MT to not have Defiance on all the time, because the crit boost doesn't really make up for a 20% flat damage cut. If you're in Defiance, use Unchained whenever it's up, basically.

 

As for Storm's Eye/Path, when I'm not MT I usually use those if I don't have to play threat catch-up against my party, though I usually stick to ....names...the green one unless either there are no NIN or other WAR that are keeping up the pink one since you can only have one debuff on at once and it feels like a waste to keep fighting over whose it is. Me I always keep Fracture on no matter what.

 

When it comes to TP, I usually don't find myself in the red on tank anymore, but I don't usually ask for Goad, just because of my own weird sensibilities where it makes me feel like a dick. If one of my friends is the NIN, fuck yeah I'll be like "give me TP, scrub" but otherwise I relax on my actual actions while keeping an eye on maintaining my threat.

 

Me, I don't ever Berserk. But that's what mainly makes me a bad tank.

 

I have to go to work so I don't have time for more, but only use Holmgang if you're about to die. Don't use it as a "Get over here."

[Kellach Woods]

This all depends on the kind of content you're doing.

 

Personally, I don't consider myself an OT when I roll in 24 mans. I'm an EMERGENCY tank (and it is sometimes necessary as last night's ST can attest ). So I do keep Defiance up and try to apply the debuff because PLD -> WAR in most runs I encounter - so you may as well help the things do less damage. It does less DPS overall, but you're not there to do top kek DPS. You're there to pretty much be a backup tank.

 

NINs will apply Dancing Blade so if you have 1 NIN out of 15 DPSes don't bother with Storm's Eye. With Combo it has 10 more Potency than Path but again - we're not there to top kek DPS and overwriting buffs about as stupid as e-peen threat fights.

 

I'll let other people field the questions because I am not a good tank. Except this one.

 

Typically, I'll pop Berserk as often as possible UNLESS I'm OT. Berserk is a surefire way to pull threat. You just do THAT much damage. I'll put Berserk on once the tank's out of possible threatsteal range. You'll learn to gauge that as you run but typically at 50% you can't pull threat from them unless they're that bad, and chances are if they are they will had lost threat a few times to DPS.

[Kurt S.]

So I guess keeping it on almost always is effective then. Oh yeah, Chris, on the subject of Holmgang I only every use when I remember it's there sitting on Kurt's actions list. I mean I like being scorpion but I've only done that once because I panicked and hit that instead of provoke once upon a time. 

 

One quick question, on the subject of Paladins, were to I be put on Emergency Tank duty, which would be more effective for DPS purposes RoH or RB? I mean on the one hand that's like 2GCDs before I attain like 30 points more potency versus one GCD for 30 points less. Say I'm saving on TP, I should probably just stick to RoH regardless right?

 

One more thing is there like a cap for threat or can I throw as many OPs and Flashes, Steel Cyclones as I want and never have to worry about aggro every again?

[Steel Wolf]

I'll speak on my own personal experiences here, particularly for as many WoD runs as I've belted. I'm not sure I'm El Supremo Axe Tanker, but every little bit of info helps, non?

 

MT vs. OT--most of the time I land myself in an OT situation in WoD. Absolutely cool with that. For the most part I do run with Defiance on just in case there's an issue or if I know there's parts of the fight that require me to herd adds, but for some fights I tick Defiance off to help give up more deeps, like against the Five-Headed Dragon, for example. Defiance in OT is largely situational for me, but if there's a fight where one MT and no add herding is needed, then I turn it off.

 

When I do run on Defiance as OT, I alternate between the Path and Eye rotations to keep up the debuffs and deal out a steady run of damage without generating a lot of threat. I've even fired off Inner Beast shots after I hit five Wrath stacks simply for the sake of personal habits as well as offering up a nice, meaty hit. Plus, I personally just enjoy the animation.

 

MT'ing rotation for me generally looks like Tomahawk>Flash>Overpower>Threat rotation>Flash as my starter if I'm facing a single target, or Infuriate>Tomahawk>Steel Cyclone>Flash>Overpower as my starter if facing a group. Cooldowns tend to be, again, a situational thing, but my most abused tend to be, in order of clicking:

• Thrill of Battle
  
• Foresight
  
• Vengeance
  
• Convalescence (usually paired with Bloodbath)
  
• Awareness
  

 

Holmgang and Berserk I hardly ever use unless there's an "Ohshi--" situation. Often I hit the two together if I need to burn things down as fast as possible before I fall over dead...and ideally I'll also have my Convalescence+Bloodbath combo to sort of try and stem the tide.

 

I don't use Unchained very often if at all...which I think is another thing that makes me a bad Rawrior tanker. Overall, though, I think I'm doing reasonably well. I haven't been directly bitched at, so I assume I'm doing something right. Bear in mind, though, that I also don't have a golden Magitek Armor either...so take that as you will.

[Kurt S.]

Wow I feel like an idiot...I forgot Holmgang is my God Mode skill....

[Warren Castille]

I'll answer the more general questions because I'm not a warrior.

 

Defiance: If the fight has no adds, don't bother with Defiance as an off-tank. Should things go pear-shaped and death causes you to be the main tank suddenly, go ahead and pop it. If you're going to be holding adds for any meaningful amount of time, go ahead and pop it, but drop it once they're dead. There's no reason to reduce your damage and increase your HP if you're not taking damage to begin with.

 

Slashing Debuff: There's a lot of debate as to whether the WAR or the NIN should be using the slashing debuff. WAR will have the chance to apply it sooner in a fight due to NIN opening (or should be, elitism plug goes here) with their DoTs, but as long as someone does it it doesn't matter. If there's no NIN because you're doing Trials or something, then yes, debuff that target.

 

Goad: Tricky. If there are other physical DPS in the ground and you're only the OT, it's likelier than they'll need it more than you. If the party comp is just PLD WAR NIN BLM BLM SMN SCH WHM then feel free to ask for it.

 

Berserk: As an Off-Tank, treat Berserk like a DPS cooldown. Hit it as often as possible, try to not let it get clipped by invulnerable phases (Titan jumps, transitions, etc).

 

Defensive Cooldowns: I use mine sooner rather than later due to the effective-HP thing. If you have exactly 10,000 hit points, popping a 20% reduction at full health gives you 12k hp to tool around with. Hitting that same buff with 5,000 health "only" gives you 6k effective HP.

 

Convalescence: It's off-GCD, and it's just icing on top of Defiance's bonus. Use it in conjunction with your "oh shit I'm dying" reflexes.

 

Fracture: Controversial on paper. It'll devour TP, it's only ever a DPS increase if you get the full duration on the DoT and even then, the increase is almost inconsequential (last numbers I looked at showed an increase of 7 DPS over an entire fight). Some swear by it, some never bother, everyone's got their reasons.

 

Overpower: Overpower is too damn good. It outscales Flash by miles due to Berserk buffing it, and with an adequate weapon you might not even need to shuffle in Flash. Overpower > Overpower > Begin weaving your combo amongst targets.

 

Threat: When maintanking, don't put too much stock into your threat lead (doubly true if you're tanking a dungeon or am the sole tank). Yes, you want to be the top threat person, but as long as you're ahead it doesn't matter by how much. Feel free to try and maximize your damage while not dropping hate - WAR is a tank, yes, but they can put out pretty outrageous damage compared to their paladin counterparts.

[Gegenji]

Wow I feel like an idiot...I forgot Holmgang is my God Mode skill....

 

I actually dislike Holmgang compared to Hallowed Ground. I mean, the word is real neat but... all it does is keep you from dropping below one HP while Hallowed straight up prevents all damage for a while. It just... isn't as good a panic button.

 

I say this mostly because I've had more than one Warrior try to do a big trash pull and use Holmgang like Hallowed Ground. So they're being hit by 20 different things and I can't really heal them back up to somewhere safe before it drops and the numerous different beasties polish them off.

 

... Then again, the most recent example of this was a Nexus Warrior who was trying to speedrun an instance with two DPS that had never been there before. And pull bosses before the DPS were close enough to get inside the barrier, blaming them for being too slow. Oh, and tried to tell me how I should've a.) been spamming Adlo, and b.) had Aetherflow stacks ready for him pulling everything past the first spout all at once and not using any cooldowns beyond Holmgang.

 

... I may be a bit bitter.

[Kurt S.]

Wait Hallowed Ground is crossable?

[Gegenji]

Oh, no no no. I'm just comparing skills. And pointing out the difference between the two. I think Holmgang is perfectly fine as a panic button against a singular or small group of enemies where recovery is POSSIBLE from that 1 HP. It is not Hallowed Ground, however, so I'm advocating not treating it like it is.

[Steel Wolf]

I actually dislike Holmgang compared to Hallowed Ground. I mean, the word is real neat but... all it does is keep you from dropping below one HP while Hallowed straight up prevents all damage for a while. It just... isn't as good a panic button.

 

I'm in the same mental camp. Hallowed is such a nicer little "turtling" skill than Holmgang...which is why Holm is hardly ever touched on my bar.

[Aduu Avagnar]

the Nako'li patented lazy tank method.

Single target mtstyle yo.

Infuriate

Tomahawk

Unchained

Heavy swing

Beserk

Rest of rotation

Repeat Rotation. And /only/ aggro rotation unless you have a decent lead and there are no warriors.

 

Pop beserk when it comes off of cooldown. Macro it so that your healers can be ready with esuna/leeches. 

 

Defensive cooldowns to be used when you see a particularly powerful attack in the cast bar. (Try to combine them with inner beast for that extra mitigation.

 

I wanna be mt aoe aggro

Tomahawk

Unchained (if up. If not, beserk)

Overpower

Beserk (if not used)

Overpower

Repeat down to 500tp

Wait 2/3 ticks As appropriate to ensure you dont go below 500 on next one.

Overpower.

 

The 500 rule is simply one from running dungeons. A reserve for if you aggro patrolling mobs etc.

[Kurt S.]

Well I guess I only ever use Holmgang because I wanna be Scorpion. I don't remember a single time where I've oh wait there was that one time I kinda used it to cheat death and then clutch kill the Cloud of Darkness....man that was a moment of pure panic where I popped everything even though everyone was saying drop it and restart. Popped a good chunk of my cool downs...Thrill of Battle and Bloodbath come to mind then Foresight before I began wailing on it with the BB combo praying to god almighty I finish this then popped my LB....I was rewarded with my WoD chest and it was a good day. 

 

And everyone dropped their pants. 

 

But that was the 2nd time I've had to use Holmgang....I think it was Holmgang...

 

Anyway Holmgang

[Steel Wolf]

Yea, Holmgang is your only panic button and its useful depending on the situation. I think what Gegenji was advocating is that it can't or shouldn't be used the same way as Hallowed. :3

 

Hallowed, for example, I've used as another defensive cooldown when all others have been exhausted and I'm about to eat a really big punch from a giant naked rock dude.

 

Holmgang I used when I was the last one standing during the last boss of WP. I still died, but I VERY NEARLY had the King dead. :<

[Kurt S.]

So it is an "Ohshitohshitohshit" button than a panic button or even something to help mitigate damage. I would guess that HG would have a lower CD than Holm's 3minute one if it could pass off as a Defensive CD? Or did the point fly over my head again?

[Gegenji]

Yea, Holmgang is your only panic button and its useful depending on the situation.  I think what Gegenji was advocating is that it can't or shouldn't be used the same way as Hallowed.   :3

 

That's the gist of it, yes.

 

Hallowed straight up makes you take no damage for its duration. As such, you can be topped off and recover from damage from all sorts of situations before it fades. It's why it's so key for PLD group tanking - pull lots of mobs and just ignore the damage while your AoE hopefully bursts down a chunk of them before they can even get to your HP.

 

Holmgang, on the other hand, still has you taking damage. You just can't go below 1. It's great, as I said, for smaller groups and against bosses as a panic button, because you can be healed through the damage and hopefully back to a safe zone. In massive group pulls? You're going to stay low and then melt once it drops unless something like Benediction or Lustrate is used, I've seen it happen.

 

It has its uses, but it is not Hallowed Ground. When dealing with larger groups, I'd recommend Convalescence+Bloodbath and trying to help your healer with overcoming the damage through self-healing Overpowers. And any other damage reducing cooldowns you have. Don't rely on Holmgang alone to save you.

 

So it is an "Ohshitohshitohshit" button than a panic button or even something to help mitigate damage. I would guess that HG would have a lower CD than Holm's 3minute one if it could pass off as a Defensive CD? Or did the point fly over my head again?

 

Hallowed Ground actually has a longer cooldown, so I rarely use it in my usual defensive-buff rotations (420 seconds, aka 7 minutes - had to look it up, haha), saving it for if the healer's napping on the job or something else really bad happens. You can use it along with Sentinel and them, but I tend to just stick to Rampart and Foresight as my PLD cooldowns for the most part. I'm actually so used to the defensive buff cooldowns at the ready that my own WAR tanking suffers from it - and the fact I'm TERRIBLE at TP management, which I think is the biggest part of playing a WAR well.

 

... Can't really maintain enmity if you don't have the TP to do it.

[Warren Castille]

Holmgang doesn't last as long as Hallowed, and Holmgang doesn't make you actually any easier to heal. Examples:

 

Warrior facepulls 30 enemies. He uses Holmgang on one and spams Overpower, but the healer just can't heal through that much output. Warrior never drops below 1hp for the duration, but as soon as it wear off, Warrior eats dirt.

 

Paladin facepulls 30 enemies. Right before he dies, he pops Hallowed Ground. The healer can heal the paladin to full without worry of him dying, and when it drops the paladin can then hit cooldowns to extend that full HP pool.

[Merri]

I used to main Warrior through BCoB 1 & 2 before swapping to main Ninja for FCoB, but, I figure my knowledge is still relevant here, so I'll throw down what I know. I still play Warrior quite often anyhow. o/

Massive wall of text incoming.

 

If we want to talk real warrior finesse, there's actually an opening rotation and an actual rotation you can follow through with for the most part. In most content, it's fairly irrelevant what you do so long as you hold aggro. The only real places that a proper rotation matters is endgame, and these days, that means FCoB and Savage.

 

The thing with being a tank is it's half knowing your abilities, half knowing the dungeon you're running. Knowing the encounters you're doing. Once you run things enough, you know what abilities the bosses are going to use. You even start to know more or less when they're going to use them, and what you need to use to counteract them. I'll start with rotation things before I get into the finer points of cooldowns, as well as tips and tricks you can do to mix and match certain abilities. For me, Warrior is about doing as much damage as humanly possible while using my cooldowns to mitigate when necessary. Once you reach a certain gear threshold, vitality becomes 100% irrelevant in anything except FCoB and Savage Coil. Your gear will provide more than enough to let you survive anything. That being said, I play my warrior with 30 points into STR, and full STR accessories. This isn't for everyone, though, and my playstyle will differ largely because of it. I do have vitality accessories that I throw on if I'm doing large pulls in dungeons, but, outside of that it's all STR all the time.

 

Under the right conditions, (Potions, food, party buffs, trick attack, etc) you start seeing numbers like this, and well... ...it's just gravy.

 

 

That being said. Warrior opener for bosses. Infuriate before you pull. This is key. Infuriate is an ability you want to get on cooldown and keep on cooldown unless you're undergeared and need to hang onto it as a defensive cooldown. Either way. Infuriate from the start. Run in, pull with tomahawk. I generally close the gap before my GCD is up and immediately go into brutal swing if the boss doesn't need to be stunned later (as it is an off the GCD ability, so you can use it between GCDs.), and then build into heavy swing.

 

Heavy swing generates no stacks of wrath. This is important. Think of it as filler. Part of the finesse of warrior rotation is setting yourself up to maximize offensive uptime during your cooldowns durations.

 

Heavy swing will proc your Skull Sunder / Maim combos. But, before you even think about going into Maim (which should be your first priority), you're going to pop two abilities. The first is Unchained, followed immediately by Berserk. If you hit them both immediately, you can activate them both before your GCD is up. Berserk generates one stack of wrath, so it's important to use unchained beforehand as to not waste that stack.

 

Once that's done, you build into maim, followed internal release and bloodbath in the same GCD, followed by storm's eye. Then you'll swap over into your butcher's block combo, inner beast when that's said and done, rinse repeat alternating butcher's block and storm's eye unless you need path up. With proper skillspeed, think it's around 415 or something, you can fit one extra GCD into your berserk duration which is nice as it lets you get one more butcher's block in. Fracture is, for the most part, an entirely worthless skill as a MT. It's potency is awful with defiance up, and any of your normal combo abilities will usually out parse is by a safe margin. Doubly so when you have berserk and unchained up. The only real time fracture has any use is if you're breaking off from the boss for whatever reason. It's just not worth the GCD. Outside of that, key thing to remember is you can fit about two butcher's block combos in before you need to re-apply maim and storm's eye. I just build the rest of my rotation off that.

 

So, the short version of that is--

 

Infuriate -> Tomahawk -> Brutal Swing -> Heavy Swing -> Unchained -> Berserk -> Maim -> Internal Release -> Bloodbath -> Storm's Eye -> Heavy Swing -> Skull Sunder -> Butcher's Block -> Inner Beast -> Heavy Swing -> Skull Sunder -> Butcher's Block (If your skillspeed is high enough) -> Pacified.

 

I made a quick video here to demonstrate, as that's generally better than a bunch of jumbled words. You can see what I mean by doubling up on the GCD as well.

 

 

Cooldowns. Lots of Warrior Cooldowns feed into eachother, and have great perks when mixed together with certain combos. I'll start by listing off your cooldowns, what you should use them for, and what they can be combo'd into.

 

Vengeance: Vengeance is your best cooldown. It's 30% damage reduction, and it's beast. You also gain a stack of wrath, which means if you're sitting at 4 wrath and pop this, you're now at 5 wrath and can use Inner Beast. Cool stuff. It also deals an attack with a potency of 50 to any enemy that strikes you while it's up. Because of this, Vengeance combos with Bloodbath in an amazing way. If you're doing a large pull and you pop the two together, every attack vengeance makes on your behalf will benefit from bloodbath and return HP to you.

 

Thrill of Battle: Increases your maximum HP by 20%, and heals you for the amount increased. This is a good "Oh shit" button. It also makes any stoneskins cast on you for it's duration 20% stronger, which is nice. This combos well with Convalescence as a cooldown, as you have a bigger HP pool and bigger heals coming in to top it off.

 

Convalescence: Yes, you should have this set. It's a very, very nice cooldown despite not having any inherent damage reduction. It mitigates via healing instead of damage reduction.

 

Foresight: Just a simple boost of your defense (not actual damage reduction, just defense) by 20%. It's nice. Good to toss on if you're taking a healthy bit of damage and need to soften it up some.

Inner Beast: 20% damage reduction, and beast damage to boot. Unless you know a big hit is coming up, it's better to just blow this as soon as you can. In almost all content outside of FCoB and Savage, I just blow it whenever it's up without question.

Holmgang: Best skill ever. So many clutch uses of this. In late endgame, it's actually used to cheese certain mechanics (I'm looking at your Ahk Morn), but for casual play it's basically just a glorified "Oh shit" button. Think you're gonna die? Know you're gonna die? Holmgang. It also has a bunch of little tiny uses. For example, if you need to interrupt an ability a mob is doing and it can be normally interrupted? If you make range it and holmgang, you'll actually pull the mob to you and interrupt it's cast bar. I have a lot of glory stories of Holmgang. Like, when Titan EX was new, I remember a kill where we got him to 1% and he jumped after superbomb. Everyone in my group had died, and I had about 500 HP left. I holmganged one of the bombs before they all exploded, survived his jump, and landed the killing blow. Totally have an entire party who can back me up on that~

 

It's soooo good.

 

AoE pulls? Overpower. Infuriate + Steel Cylcone. Alternate your butcher's block combo on mobs to keep solid aggro on them all. More Steel Cyclone and Overpower. Flash if you're low on MP and it's set.

 

And lastly, to answer some of your questions.

 

-- Provoke puts you one point of enmity above the highest on the mob's threat table. If you provoke something far away, you're going to have to tomahawk it until it reaches you in order to keep aggro on it unless everyone else in your party stops doing what they're doing. Namely your healers. So yes, tomahawk.

 

-- Overpower is great for large pulls. Butcher's block is better for smaller pulls. That's the short of it, really.

 

-- Fracture is worthless, IMO. It's potency is garbage, doubly so with defiance up. Unless you're peeling off a boss, I wouldn't bother.

 

-- Convalescence, yes. As mentioned earlier, it's one of your better cooldowns.

 

-- Thrill of Battle? When you need it. Gonna die? Great cooldown. Not feeling comfortable with your HP and heals aren't incoming as quickly as you'd like? Pop it.

 

-- Berserk should be used on cooldown. It's too good to let sit idle. If my unchained is off cooldown when berserk is up (Which will happen for your first berserk after your opener) I pop defiance off for it's duration to maximize on it's potential.

 

-- If you aren't main tanking, defiance should be off and you should be wrecking face. 'Nuff said there. I actually turn defiance off when I'm main tanking after my initial berserk + unchained combo, but, that's because I play Warrior as a glorified pseudo-DPS. Haha. If I'm playing with healers I know can handle it, of course.

 

-- I ask for goad because Warrior too stronk. Almost any fight in the game outside of endgame won't see anyone TP starved, so, goad is just kind of a thing.

 

Disclaimer: As mentioned in the post, this is my own personal playstyle. It won't jive well with everyone, but, I love ripping things to shreds on my Warrior. ♥

[Melkire]

WAR here, I can help answer these. Always astonished at how many good PLDs the RPC has compared to good WARs.

 

EDIT: Speaking of, I just got ninja'd by Merri. I hate typing up long responses on my phone, takes forever.

 

Suppose I'm not the MT for any given run and delegated to OT. Wooh!

 

-Should I have Defiance on or off? Thing is even if I'm not the MT in a run I still have Defiance on for the crit boost as well maintaining an orange aggro level just in case the MT dies so I know the Aggro can easily shift to me with just an overpower or so. Well you get the question, Defiance on or off? Crit boost or flat DPS? Also Unchained.

 

"Defiance on or off as an OT" is always a question of:

 

1. Do I need to be ready at any given time to tank the boss via tank swap or tank adds w/ enmity boost from tank stance and Steel Cyclone for snap aggro?

 

2. Optimal DPS is Defiance into Unchained into Berserk into Infuriate so that your DPS penalty is nullified, Berserk is on, and you're still benefitting from increased crit rate from 5 Wrath stacks. That said, this is only an 18s window. At all other times, Defiance Off is more DPS.

 

3. Are you perilously close to ripping hate off the MT? If yes, turn Defiance off.

 

4. Are you going to need the 20% DR from Inner Beast or the healing boost from Defiance at any given time? If yes, leave Defiance on.

 

Don't forget that you do not have to "set it and forget it." You can stance dance during a fight. Just be aware of Wrath stack losses.

 

-Let's say the MT is a PLD' date=' am I doing it right by simply going Storm's Eye essentially 90% of the time and just keep refreshing Storm's Path(because I think the PLD needs more mitigation) and Fracture or should I just go Storm's Eye 100% of the time because the other two might just waste my TP anyway.[/quote']

 

For progression, apply Path first and then Eye. For farming or aggressive phase pushing, apply Eye first and then Path. Always apply both, even when you have a NIN to apply Dancing Edge; their time is better spent on Aeolian Edge.

 

Always Fracture so long as your TP management can handle it between pulls / boss-jumps.

 

-Should I be asking for goad or just auto-attack until my TP regenerates?

 

One benefit of having Berserk on is that each use of IB/SC every 18s or so is one free GCD. This improves TP management quite a bit.

 

Fracture is your most costly weaponskill. If you're losing TP too fast, leave it out of your rotations for a while.

 

You shouldnt need to ask for Goad or Paeon unless you're in a Coil instance that calls for it or you are speedrunning content by Overpower-spamming.

 

-Berserk should be popped when exactly? I mean I pop it when I'm like stupidly low on TP but should I be popping it earlier?

 

There is no reason to hold Berserk until you are low on TP. Berserk does nothing for TP management other than to grant a single Wrath stack.

 

Use Berserk whenever you need either increased DPS or an extra Wrath stack AND you can anticipate being able to afford being Pacified for four seconds (Flash can cover all enmity needs during Pacification).

 

Suppose I am the MT because some genius thought it would be smart to put a i105 nub as MT. 

 

-Overpower>Flash>Overpower>Flash>Overpower>Flash>Overpower after I do a Tomahawk to grab the mob that is and sometimes the mob after it. Thoughts? This is under the condition that Infuriate is on CD and I just used a Steel Cyclone prior to the encounter. Question is, am I overpowering too much or am I overpowering too little?

 

Two to three Overpowers are generally sufficient (add in a Flash if you're antsy) UNLESS you are either hideously outgeared by your DPS or they have godlike AoE DPS skills (or are dumbasses casting Swiftcast-Flare), in which case adjust as necessary.

 

'-Popping CDs when I'm at like 50% HP or grabbing more than 1 mob group at a time? Or do I just hit those CDs every time they go off CD?

 

Bloodbath+Vengeance is your best combo/source for mitigating damage fron mass pulls / multiple mobs / many groups.

 

Depending on the size of the pull and pull frequency, you can either blow all your defensive CDs on a single large pull or cycle through them on many small pulls.

 

DO NOT WAIT UNTIL YOU HAVE DROPPED TO 50% TO POP COOLDOWNS. Your healers will hate you. Exception goes to Holmgang, and in infrequent cases to Thrill of Battle and Second Wind.

 

-Provoke' date=' do I lob a hawk at the enemy if he's distant or Holmgang his ass to me? On the one hand lobbing birds at it is practical, on the other being scorpion is Kool too. [/quote']

 

You will usually need to follow up Provoke with a big hit (combo'd Sunder or combo'd Block, Overpower can work too) to keep your DPS from ripping hate. Tomahawk is rarely enough unless you are using Provoke as an opener on a distant unpulled mob.

 

-Is it practical to slot in a Fracture in between my BB/SP combos just to boost DPS or should I keep my eyes on the prize and keep smacking the thing to keep aggro?

 

As MT, aggro, mitigation, and TP take priority. Slot in Fracture when feasible. In current endgame content, with Defiance on, Fracture is so shitty that its not worth it.

 

-On the cross class front' date=' Convalescence..do I even need it with all my lifesteal? Not that I have any other cross class to take.[/quote']

 

Convalescence is an ABSOLUTE MUST on ALL TANKS. It is for your healers, it is not for you. It doesn't affect your lifesteal effects.

 

-Thrill of Battle' date=' when's a good time to pop it? I usually do mine when I hit like 30%ish HP.[/quote']

 

Uses vary. Pop as a self-heal. Pop when full HP to mitigate big hits (Meteor, Ravensbeak, etc.). Pop it to increase your max HP pool so your healers have more room to heal you w/o overhealing.

 

-Berserk should be popped when exactly? I mean I pop it when I'm like stupidly low on TP but should I be popping it earlier?

 

Answer is the same as it is for OT. Remember that more damage = more enmity generated as a result of multipliers.

 

Holmgang doesn't last as long as Hallowed, and Holmgang doesn't make you actually any easier to heal. Examples:

 

Warrior facepulls 30 enemies. He uses Holmgang on one and spams Overpower, but the healer just can't heal through that much output. Warrior never drops below 1hp for the duration, but as soon as it wear off, Warrior eats dirt.

 

Paladin facepulls 30 enemies. Right before he dies, he pops Hallowed Ground. The healer can heal the paladin to full without worry of him dying, and when it drops the paladin can then hit cooldowns to extend that full HP pool.

 

PLDs pop HG, get healed to full, and then resume cycling CDs.

 

Holmgang is different. Holmgang isnt "Im invincible," it's "I'm inevitably going to dip below 1 hp pretty soon so let me have Convalescence and IB and Veng and Thrill and SW and whatever CDs I have available ready to pop so that I can make it super easy for my healer to pick me back up at the penultimate moment before Holmgang expires."

 

The difference between Hallowed Ground and Holmgang is the essence of the difference between PLD and WAR.

 

PLD is about mitigating as much damage as possible whenever possible.

 

WAR is about never dipping below 1 hp, mitigating BIG hits in small bursts, and then healing it all back. WAR is The Berserker. For the young ones, WAR is Tryndamere.

 

EDIT: And as mentioned, Holmgang is more than just a survival tool. Clutch interrupt. Also CC. Also knockback prevention.

[Sounsyy]

[align=center][/align]

 

Merri and I have very similar views on how to play WAR, so at the risk of just repeating everything he's already said, I'll try to cover various other rotation bits. Though similar, Merri and I do have a different opening rotation, so try both and see which you prefer!? I consider myself a career WAR, having played the class from T1 (back when people said WAR couldn't hack MTing Coil pre-2.1) to T13, and in every content that wasn't Coil. So I would like to emphasize at the start that I consider this way of playing WAR the more optimal and efficient way, but that is not to say it is for everyone. You can get on just fine playing your WAR like it's a PLD (most people do), but you just aren't getting the full potential out of your job.

 

 

Like Merri said, know your abilities, know your dungeon, and know how your stats work. I consider these the three keys to pushing the envelope as a tank. Merri's done a pretty good job of going over your abilities individually, so I thought I'd suggest some good ability combinations as well as what I cross-class.

 

 

Personal Cross-Class:

 

Convalescence - Increases the potency of healing spells used on you by 20%. This, stacked with Defiance, gives you 40% extra healing recovery, which is amazing! This is a must have skill that I usually reserve for big pulls or impending heavy damage in raids.

 

Provoke - Another must have! Places you at +1 Enmity above the highest enmity of another player. This is a catch-up skill. While you can use it to rip enmity back, know that you absolutely must follow this ability up with either a tomahawk (ranged) or a Butcher's Block (close) if you want to keep said hate lead. Otherwise, you're just turning the mob.

 

Awareness - I consider this essential, though a lot of people don't. For 25s you will not suffer any critical hits. While this is not always a major concern for a tank, there are a few applications where this ability shines. In dungeons, you'll want to use this during big pulls. This guarantees that your HP falls at a steady, constant rate and will not divebomb suddenly due to a crit. During raids as an OT you will want to save this for high-powered adds that will try to wreck your face while your MT is also getting his/her face wrecked by boss. This lessens strain on healers and makes sure your HP doesn't plummet suddenly, drawing both heals away from the MT. In FCOB especially, suffering a crit hit can mean losing an upwards of 4k HP, which is not something your healers want to see an OT doing while MT is also taking damage.

 

Internal Release - Free +10% Crit Hit Rate for 15s! This is incredibly nice for WAR during Berserk for those really high numbers that make tanks and dps wet themselves with fear and envy.

 

Second Wind / Featherfoot - Second Wind I use for Raid settings. I prefer Featherfoot for Dungeon content. Second Wind (on a STR WAR) actually has a pretty decent return - 1100 regular or 1800 crit I've seen. So not bad if you need to bounce your HP back when you aren't your healer's priority heal or when your healers are DPSing you can cover your damage fairly easily with Second Wind and Inner Beast combo. Featherfoot I use during dungeon so as to prevent multiple hits during Big Pulls.

 

 

Honorable Cross-Class Mentions:

Flash - A lot of people use this. I do not, though I have nothing against people who do. This ability is realistically for burning your MP pool instead of your TP pool when trying to maintain AoE aggro. Though, in my experience, its effects and range are lackluster and as a STR WAR, I rarely lose any mob that I've Overpowered twice. Be sure to always follow up your Overpowers with Butcher's Block rotations during smaller pulls like Merri said.

 

Mantra - Again, some people seem to like the 5% increased cure potency, but I do not. When compared to Convalescence's 20%, 5% is very disappointing, even if it does go out to the whole party, there's 1) very few times I'm stacked close enough to the party to catch my group with the buff 2) usually only me taking damage 3) plenty of other jobs can cross-class Mantra for better effect, like BRD or DRG.

 

 

Abilities, Rotations, What to Use When:

 

Big Pulls:

Vengeance + Bloodbath + Overpower = success. Vengeance increases your mitigation by 30% plus deals 50 potency damage to attackers. Combine this with bloodbath, and you'll actually heal for a fraction every time you're smacked. Overpower though is where your true self-healing comes in. Say you have 10 mobs beating you. You overpower and hit all 10 mobs for 400-500 dmg because you're a STR WAR. Bloodbath takes 25% of that damage dealt and converts it to HP. Meaning, you just healed 100-125 HP x10 = 1000-1250 HP per Overpower every ~3 seconds. That's an extra physick going off every 3 seconds, on top of the AoE damage it deals and massive hate gain, all the while Vengeance is keeping you from taking an overabundant amount of damage, which makes healers happy.

 

Featherfoot + Awareness = the gambler's mitigation. I also like to use this on big pulls when Bloodbath + Vengeance is down. Aka the next pull. This combo isn't as effective at damage mitigation as the first, but it still does its job at not allowing your HP to suddenly nosedive. Featherfoot is actually really good about dodging multiple trash mob attacks. So of the 10 mobs, maybe only 7 or 8 of them will actually hit me, and none of those hits will be critical. Where possible, do try to mix in Inner Beast for some mitigation to help your healers out.

 

Holmgang. A very tricky ability to use, but when used well can make or break a party or raid. As has already been expressed, Holmgang's primary use is to prevent your HP from dropping below 1. It certainly does not make you invincible and it certainly doesn't make it easier on your healers, but what it does do is stop you from dying at the wrong moment. It gives that extra moment for Benediction. It lets you eat something extremely powerful without fear of dying. It gives 4 more seconds for the party to down that last 1% on the boss, or for Healers to slow raise the other. It can also be used as a CC interrupt ability as was pointed out a couple times already. Max range your Holmgang and pop it, and the mob will be pulled towards you, interrupting their cast. Very useful for when Brutal Swing is on cooldown because you instinctively use it as part of your dps rotation.

 

Boss Pulls, Hunt Mobs, MTing Raids:

Like I said before, my opening combo is a little different from Merri's, since I lack his skill speed but is essentially the same. I start with a normal Butcher's Block combo, then follow up with Maim and Storm's Eye to slow build my Wrath instead of popping it with Infuriate.

 

Note: Off-GCD abilities in parenthesis. Indicates should weave these abilities in between GCD.

 

Tomahawk > Heavy Swing (Brutal Swing) > Skull Sunder > Butcher's Block >

Heavy Swing (Bloodbath) > Maim (STR X-Pot) > Storm's Eye (Berserk) (Unchained) >

Heavy Swing (Infuriate) (Internal Release) > Skull Sunder > Butcher's Block >

Heavy Swing > Skull Sunder (Brutal Swing) > Butcher's Block > Fracture* > Inner Beast

<> Heavy Swing > Maim > Storm's Path > etc.

 

*I slot Fracture here because it is fully buffed and only then because it fits into the combo well. Outside of this combo, do not use Fracture with Defiance up. It is a waste of TP and the damage is so incredibly not worth it. Even off Defiance it's kinda meh, so only use it on a boss that you're going to not be attacking for a bit because as OT you're dealing with adds or mechanics. I never use it as MT outside this combo.

 

This combo guarantees I get two Butcher's Block combos in my Berserk rotation by prepping Storm's Eye debuff beforehand. Though not as quick as Merri's combo, this one allows me to pop Infuriate and Internal Release into the actual Berserk window for an extra 20% Critical Hit Rate on top of the minimal amount I get from gear. (ie. usually 10-12% from gear + buffs = 30-32%) I end the combo with a supercharged Fracture and Inner Beast, before all buffs drop off. Follow this up with a Storm's Path combo to reduce boss' damage and reinstate Maim, then alternate Butcher's Block and Storm's Path combos until you're ready to prep Berserk rotation again.

 

A similar rotation can be used immediately as an OT for burst opener. Simply substitute Butcher's Block combos for Storm's Eye or Storm's Path and then drop Defiance as soon as you are Pacified.

 

Heavy Swing > Maim > Storm's Path >

Heavy Swing > Maim (STR X-Pot) > Storm's Eye (Berserk) (Unchained) >

Heavy Swing (Infuriate) (Internal Release) > Maim > Storm's Path >

Heavy Swing > Maim > Storm's Eye > Fracture > Inner Beast

<> (Defiance off)

 

DPS Rotation:

With a PLD MT in the group, I just rotate Storm's Eye and Storm's Path combos back and forth.

With a WAR MT in the group, I rotate Storm's Eye and Butcher's Block combos back and forth off Defiance. That way MT can rotate Butcher's Block and Storm's Path combos. MT maintains hate and handles his own damage mitigation and OT deals his highest potency weaponskills and handles damage buffs. Both WARs win.

 

Other than that, buffs are really... when you feel you need them. I am very generous with my buffing on WAR. I pop Foresight whenever it's up really, unless I'm taking magical damage or I already have Vengeance up. Unless I'm prepping for Berserk rotation, I use my Wrath stacks on Inner Beast almost as soon as it's up, provided I'm taking damage. For some weaker HP adds like AK-HM with the plant walls or in SV-HM with the spawning puks, I use Steel Cyclone to just nom them all. Internal Release will pop up long before Berserk and Unchained are up again, so I just pop it once as soon as it's up again for free Critical Hit Rate during my normal comboing.

 

 

Stats:

Usually a sore topic for folk and causes some debate on what is "optimal" but I have my views and you can take them or leave them.

 

STR > VIT > ACC to cap > Determination (DTR) > Critical Hit Rate (CHR)

 

I do not use Parry or Skill Speed outside of what is slotted on my gear that can't be helped. If you do choose to favor Skill Speed, I'd recommend capping out at 415~ish like Merri does for the sole purpose of adding an additional WS into Berserk combo. As my rotation varries from Merri's I, personally, don't feel the need for any Skill Speed in my setup.

 

You can read my Dissertation on the Shortcomings of Parry here.

 

Essentially, STR provides a massive amount of damage, enmity, self-healing, and parry mitigation all on its own. Making it your best stat honestly. VIT increases your HP by 14.5 every 1 VIT. When you do the math... it's really disheartening. Once you get to a certain Item Level (I usually recommend i100+) VIT becomes completely useless as you'll get all the HP you could ever need outside of Coil content from your left-side body gear. As an i126 DPS WAR, I run about 9k HP with Defiance up, which is more than enough HP for most all content in the game. The point of HP is to act as a buffer and make sure you don't die before your healers can heal you. Unless your healers are dead or asleep, anything above 7.5-8k HP should be enough for that. Don't forget that your self-healing can go a long ways as well and that's one of the perks STR WARs can enjoy over their VIT WAR cousins.

 

As for Determination versus Critical Hit Rate, focus Determination as it ups your base damage, while Critical Hit Rate just increases the chance of multiplying your base damage x1.5. While striking a Crit during your Berserk rotation is really gratifying, when you need crits, you can rely on Internal Release + Infuriate for +20%, a number which is near-impossible to achieve with gear. So prioritize Determination where possible, and Critical Hit Rate on everything else. This will usually leave you with about 10-12% base CHR from gear. This is why, on PLD, I do not recommend CHR, because they do not have Internal Release or Infuriate to further boost this number, so most PLDs will end up with a 10-15% CHR and have wasted all their itemization focusing CHR and not upping their base damage with DTR.

 

 

 

Suppose I'm not the MT for any given run and delegated to OT. Wooh!

 

-Should I have Defiance on or off?

 

Depends entirely on the fight and if you actually have OT duties other than wrecking face. If no, (ie: ST, WoD, Garuda HM, pretty much all of SCOB if you use two tanks) then turn Defiance off and wreck face. Again, if you have WAR MT, I alternate Butcher's Block and Storm's Eye to maximize my DPS output. If I have a PLD, I lose a little DPS to maintain Storm's Eye and Storm's Path for the benefit of the MT. If however you have imminent Tank Swaps or are needed to soak damage/tank adds/soak mechanics like T10, then I would recommend remaining in Defiance and maintaining Storm's Eye and Storm's Path so as not to draw too much aggro. Maintain second on the hate list if you desire, but it's not really important as you'll get there next tank swap. Your MT should hopefully not be dying.

 

-Should I be asking for goad or just auto-attack until my TP regenerates?

 

If Goad is available to me, I ask for it, definitely. Because TP is one of WARs biggest pits.

 

-Overpower>Flash>Overpower>Flash>Overpower>Flash>Overpower after I do a Tomahawk to grab the mob that is and sometimes the mob after it. Thoughts? This is under the condition that Infuriate is on CD and I just used a Steel Cyclone prior to the encounter. Question is, am I overpowering too much or am I overpowering too little?

 

Wayyy too much. Most times, you'll only need to Overpower 2-3x max to have more than solid hate on all mobs present. If you have an i130 BLM who loves opening with Flare... well... you may need more. But honestly, that doesn't happen that often and Overpower is well... overpowered. For small groups only hit it once for AoE hate then swap to Butcher's Block combo. For BLMs in the party, I hit it twice for good measure before going into Butcher's Block. Anything more than that and you're really just wasting TP for your next pull. Steel Cyclone pretty much acts like a stronger Overpower, so if you have that, pop it, and then really just go into your combo unless you have a Big Pull and you want to keep Overpowering for self heals.

 

-Thrill of Battle, when's a good time to pop it? I usually do mine when I hit like 30%ish HP. 

 

Seriously, Thrill of Battle is one of my favorite buffs. I have two applications for it. The first is in a Raid setting, where I'm about to eat a "Tank Buster" mechanic like Revelation, Auk Morn, Flatten, Second Head, Critical Rip, double Wicked Wheel, Mountain Buster, etc. Tank Busters are generally moves that have a risk of one-shotting you, and are truthfully the only time VIT becomes useful in preventing said attacks from succeeding. WAR can get away with not stacking a lot of VIT still because of careful timing of Thrill of Battle, giving you the amount of HP you would of had if you had VIT accessories equipped, but still maintaining all your juicy STR-iness.

 

The second use, is recovering from said Tank Busters... or just recovering HP in general. A free 20% HP heal is great! It's like your own personal Lustrate. In dungeons where Tank Busters are pretty much non-existant, can save this to help heal yourself during bosses (where your healer may or may not have died) or can pop during a Big Pull after the initial wave of damage. That way it acts as a heal and an HP increase.

 

There's a third, very situational use for Thrill of Battle in BCOB T4 when tanking rooks. Make sure you're at full health, pop Thrill of Battle, stand in front of the Rook's Pox ability and laugh maniacally. For those that don't know, Pox reduces your max HP to whatever HP you have when it is finished casting. So, if you drop to 4k HP and then get hit by Pox, your max HP is now 4k for the duration. HOWEVER, it also works in reverse. If you pop Thrill of Battle and then get hit by Pox, your HP will remain 20% higher until the Pox debuff wears off, long after Thrill of Battle has fallen off. Say hello to 14k HP as DPS WAR for almost the entirety of Phase 5 of T4.

 

-Berserk should be popped when exactly?

 

Pop Berserk whenever it's off cooldown honestly. It's pretty great skill. You can pop it once in between Unchained for a little extra damage or just save it until your Unchained is up again. The only time I caution using it is when you know there's mechanics incoming that you're going to need to deal with, like a Tank Swap. You don't want to be pacified when trying to pull hate off another tank. It won't be pretty. A lot of people make Pacification Warning macros and you can do that if you desire.