Can I go to Ishgard right after purchasing Heavensward? Yoshida says "No".

[Blue]

UPDATE: check http://gyazo.com/ed62d177c244475b02a7fc084ae81dbf

 

Can I go to Ishgard right after purchasing Heavensward?

In order to access Ishgard, you will first need to complete the main scenario quest "Before the Dawn," which will be implemented in FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn Patch 2.55.

 

Can someone please point me an MMO who before now has released an expansion which required full clearance of the base game to even let you see its areas or unlock its jobs and was successful (making an assumption here, clues and images were shown where it seems that at least two of the jobs are based inside Ishgard).?

 

I've only played FFXI, I admit, so I'm ignorant in fact of MMOs out of that (and for this, please bear with me, I'm not one of those who think XIV=XI, but it's the only other MMO I have played, so it's the only one I can make comparisons with). But never has ever FFXI locked an expansion's access to its non-endgame areas such as cities or places where jobs are unlocked behind a lv75-must have, or a City-Missions-Completion requirement (Edit: Apparently Rise of the Zilart did in terms of storyline, but again, the open regions and jobs were not gated behind it). If I wanted to be a Blue Mage, all I needed was to be level 30 and to buy the Aht Urhgan expansion. There. And with some stealth I could even explore the Aht Urhgan areas, notoriously crawling with things that'd chew on my lv30 body in one go because, obviously, the expansion was made with high level players in mind, but not gated and restricting new players like me, or people who do not really feel like doing one hundred quests on every character and every alt like a zombie.

 

I did not expect to be allowed to fly or do side-quests or anything, but as I know a lot of people plan to move their RP there, I cannot help but feel pushed away a little, and I really wanted to do the MSQ as a gun job, so I've been holding back for that too. I like the MSQ (I RP it, as some of you may or may not remember), and to feel pressed on rushing through it just for the sake of even just seeing Ishgard and be with the other roleplayers makes me feel sad. Plus, a RL friend of mine is going to finally join the game, just for DRK (he loves DRK, always been it in FFXI and didn't come to XIV because it wasn't there), and I don't quite know how to explain that maybe he'll have to do all patches before he can even see it. I hope I'm wrong on this, but I think the statement I've quoted is safe enough to assume that at the very least, newcomers will not get to explore Ishgard.

 

Sorry, I really needed to steam this off. I just... I just don't get it. I don't want to have access to the Ishgard's Scenario without first becoming a Blade of Light, but at least let me through the freaking gate :frustrated:...!

[Chris Ganale]

I want to say TOR did that with Hutt Cartel expansion. But my main was already 50 and had cleared main story anyway.

[Spethah]

Welcome to "This game has an actual story and making you skip it will present confusion and spoilers". 

 

I'm happy this is being done. I hate people that skip pretty key content because "WOW NEW STUFF YEAH". This game has an actual story and one that progresses over time, unlike WoW where it's kinda to the side and the game is much more focused on the "oooh levels and raids and rolling pandas!". When we look at FFXIV's story, Ishgard doesn't want anything to do with you UNTIL 2.4 to which there's a sudden waver from them. 2.5 is making the wave bigger and I'm going to guess that 2.55 is where Ishgard caves in and actually lets us "Warrior's of Light" to enter. Without that waver, Ishgurrdurr said "get out". 

 

"But Rayyyy SE can just used a skip button!" - To which I say "well if the new kids want to be really confused over a rather interesting and different story then go right ahead. Don't go crying to squeenix when you find its not a good idea". Sadly SE (which is a Japanese company who heavily values story to the point of making Lightning Returns a 8 hour movie it was for me okay dont hate) won't do that because of said confusion. 

 

 

Again, I'm happy this is being done. 

 

 

As for games that did it and were successful, TOR did it and was quite successful. Then again I and a good umber of people were at 50 already when it came out so I just sat there and waited. 

[Nirri]

I'm happy this is being done. I hate people that skip pretty key content because "WOW NEW STUFF YEAH". This game has an actual story and one that progresses over time, unlike WoW where it's kinda to the side and the game is much more focused on the "oooh levels and raids and rolling pandas!". When we look at FFXIV's story, Ishgard doesn't want anything to do with you UNTIL 2.4 to which there's a sudden waver from them. 2.5 is making the wave bigger and I'm going to guess that 2.55 is where Ishgard caves in and actually lets us "Warrior's of Light" to enter. Without that waver, Ishgurrdurr said "get out".

 

^^ This and that!

[Havoc Snow]

It wouldn't make sense for them to open the gates to every tom, dick, and harry right off the bat, then for you to go through the MSQ and them to repeatedly tell you that you're not allowed in during the lvl 30-40 questline in Coerthas, or any of the content involving the Templars from 2.4 and 2.5 where they basically say "we like you, but you're not allowed inside."

[Blue]

Welcome to "This game has an actual story and making you skip it will present confusion and spoilers". 

 

I'm happy this is being done. I hate people that skip pretty key content because "WOW NEW STUFF YEAH". This game has an actual story and one that progresses over time, unlike WoW where it's kinda to the side and the game is much more focused on the "oooh levels and raids and rolling pandas!". When we look at FFXIV's story, Ishgard doesn't want anything to do with you UNTIL 2.4 to which there's a sudden waver from them. 2.5 is making the wave bigger and I'm going to guess that 2.55 is where Ishgard caves in and actually lets us "Warrior's of Light" to enter. Without that waver, Ishgurrdurr said "get out". 

 

"But Rayyyy SE can just used a skip button!" - To which I say "well if the new kids want to be really confused over a rather interesting and different story then go right ahead. Don't go crying to squeenix when you find its not a good idea". Sadly SE (which is a Japanese company who heavily values story to the point of making Lightning Returns a 8 hour movie it was for me okay dont hate) won't do that because of said confusion. 

 

 

Again, I'm happy this is being done. 

 

 

As for games that did it and were successful, TOR did it and was quite successful. Then again I and a good umber of people were at 50 already when it came out so I just sat there and waited. 

 

It's not that I wanted to skip it. It's more than I've always wanted a gun job in XIV, and for that I've holded back on doing the MSQ, planning to do it as a gunner when it'd be released. In FFXI, I wanted to go through the main scenario (city missions) as a Blue Mage, so I've bought the expansion, got in Aht Urhgan, unlocked BLU, and then went back to do the city missions.

 

I'm just not used to expansions being branches of the previous version of the game rather than things of their own.

[Chris Ganale]

It is true that I want to do MSQ with both Yuuna and Ghost as gunners because those are their primary combat arms fields, but dammit, if I'm not able to... /sigh I'll just put up with it.

[Marisa]

World of Warcraft (aka the mmo by which all mmos are compared) often did this. You had to be a specific level and complete lengthy quest lines to access Dalaran or the Shrines in Panderia.   

 

Granted, they weren't super strict about it. There were some workarounds you could use, such as having a warlock summon you there, or getting a mage to make a portal for you. But the only natural way to get there was through questing.

[Maril]

I have two alts at 50 that needs to do /all/ of it.. Granted I have 3 months but that's a soulcrushing amount of hours. I also have to gear both of them up so they can even do the stuff the MSQ requires So its not just completion hour, its also hours put into farming gear on characters I have no desire to progress in PvE, because they're there for RP and nothing else. 

 

I get the game is alt hostile but geeeez. That's just OTT.

[Havoc Snow]

I'm just not used to expansions being branches of the previous version of the game rather than things of their own.

 

This is how most games treat expansions, considering the very word "expansion" essentially means to expand on the source. Take Wrath of the Lich King from WoW as an example, if you wanted to play a Death Knight you had to have a character already at lvl 50+ to be able to make a brand new character that was a Death Knight. TERA is another example, if you wanted to play a Reaper you needed to have a character at around lvl 50 (I don't remember the exact level) to unlock the option to make a new character as a Reaper.

 

With FFXIV it's not that much different, and for all we know the NPCs to unlock the new Jobs are not located in Ishgard, they haven't released any details on this so far so as far as we know they may just have a requirement like "must have at least one class at lvl 30 to unlock any of the new Jobs" and the NPCs are located in Dragonhead or something.

 

I get the game is alt hostile but geeeez. That's jut OTT.

 

Not only is the game fairly alt hostile, it's also not very accommodating when it comes to RPers, which considering there is no official RP server or community is understandable to a degree. They build things from a design perspective, not in a way that makes things easily accessible and convenient for RPers.

[Erik Mynhier]

I have two alts at 50 that needs to do /all/ of it.. Granted I have 3 months but that's a soulcrushing amount of hours. I also have to gear both of them up so they can even do the stuff the MSQ requires So its not just completion hour, its also hours put into farming gear on characters I have no desire to progress in PvE, because they're there for RP and nothing else. 

 

I get the game is alt hostile but geeeez. That's jut OTT.

 

This is why I dont play alt.

[Maril]

I have two alts at 50 that needs to do /all/ of it.. Granted I have 3 months but that's a soulcrushing amount of hours. I also have to gear both of them up so they can even do the stuff the MSQ requires So its not just completion hour, its also hours put into farming gear on characters I have no desire to progress in PvE, because they're there for RP and nothing else. 

 

I get the game is alt hostile but geeeez. That's jut OTT.

 

This is why I dont play alt.

I usually do not, but of all games this is the one where my brain decided to spark a dormant case of altitis to life >.

[Erik Mynhier]

I have two alts at 50 that needs to do /all/ of it.. Granted I have 3 months but that's a soulcrushing amount of hours. I also have to gear both of them up so they can even do the stuff the MSQ requires So its not just completion hour, its also hours put into farming gear on characters I have no desire to progress in PvE, because they're there for RP and nothing else. 

 

I get the game is alt hostile but geeeez. That's jut OTT.

 

This is why I dont play alt.

I usually do not, but of all games this is the one where my brain decided to spark a dormant case of altitis to life >.<

 

I feel you, im temped from time to time, but erik takes so much energy and effort. Also the idea of having to do the whole damn msq and all the damn updates makes me want to jump off the top of the Naval.

[Warren Castille]

FFXI's Chains of Promathia. That is all.

[Arelian Solin]

My primary problems with this are many, honestly.

 

1) New players and people that plain haven't done the MSQ up to 2.55 will have a lot of post-50 content to chew through and they'll likely be well above level 50 by the time they get to Heavensward content. It seems a little counter-intuitive to design content that's meant to be done at level 50 but you're physically unable to access it until level 51+ as a new player.

 

2) SE is going to have to really, really incentivize doing outdated content if they expect queue times for group-related thing to remain remotely acceptable. It'd be one thing if most of that was considered "optional" but doing stuff like the Keeper of the Lake and the HM primals is going to be a treat unless the roulette's are:

• Pruned down to only include necessary things (like the story roulette is now, but expanded slightly).
  
• Highly incentivized more than the current story roulette is. 
  

3) It just seems silly to me to totally lock people out of what sounds like it'll be a new hub area until they reach a certain threshold. Let people go and see why they bought the expansion immediately, even if they can't take any quests or anything. I can understand locking the story content behind a gate, to a degree. You need context to really care. But locking the main new city? Why?

 

Of course, that's all assuming that the quest they mentioned is only completable after finishing the rest of the story up. It could very well be a gigantic catch-up/flash back quest that basically just gets you up to speed after you've hit level 50.

 

FFXI's Chains of Promathia. That is all.

I don't remember if CoP required you to clear RotZ first. All I really remember are shitty level caps that required you to keep ALL OF YOUR GEAR FOREVER.

[Ha'uruh Nunh]

How do you eat a chocobo?  One bite at a time.  Just do the missions.  Skip the cutscenes if you don't care about them.  If you skip cutscenes and just grind from checkpoint to checkpoint, they actually go quite fast.

[Dat Oni]

How do you eat a chocobo?  One bite at a time. 

 

You-

 

You monster.

 

[Warren Castille]

FFXI's Chains of Promathia. That is all.

I don't remember if CoP required you to clear RotZ first. All I really remember are shitty level caps that required you to keep ALL OF YOUR GEAR FOREVER.

 

Buying CoP didn't give you access to anything except the balls-hard fights required to access the new zones, the new city, the new story and everything that wasn't jobs. Zilart required you to complete everything to unlock Sky. Aht Urghan was different in that regard, opening a lot from the door, but there is a precedent for buying an SE MMO and having it be an empty box save for a pile of IOU: Patch Content notes.

[Arelian Solin]

FFXI's Chains of Promathia. That is all.

I don't remember if CoP required you to clear RotZ first. All I really remember are shitty level caps that required you to keep ALL OF YOUR GEAR FOREVER.

 

Buying CoP didn't give you access to anything except the balls-hard fights required to access the new zones, the new city, the new story and everything that wasn't jobs. Zilart required you to complete everything to unlock Sky. Aht Urghan was different in that regard, opening a lot from the door, but there is a precedent for buying an SE MMO and having it be an empty box save for a pile of IOU: Patch Content notes.

I do think there's a difference between buying the expac and immediately having access to the new content, be it in the form of stupidly hard fights, even if I look back on Promyvion's fondly for how cool they were, in some way as opposed to buying the expac and having access to literally nothing until you clear what is basically all of the content from the base game.

 

My main concern is really the group content, though. That's gonna be a massive pain in the ass to get through unless they really give people a reason to go back and do it or they somehow let you solo it (which they've talked about).

[Zyrusticae]

1) New players and people that plain haven't done the MSQ up to 2.55 will have a lot of post-50 content to chew through and they'll likely be well above level 50 by the time they get to Heavensward content. It seems a little counter-intuitive to design content that's meant to be done at level 50 but you're physically unable to access it until level 51+ as a new player.

Concerning the bolded... I'm confused by what you're saying here. Are you talking about the expansion content (which is definitely level 51+ content right off the bat) or talking about the patch 2.x series content? The former case is obviously incorrect, but even the latter case makes no sense to me, because you're gated by ilvl anyway and having access to level 51+ gear should only make those ilvl gates easier to reach... right?

 

 

2) SE is going to have to really, really incentivize doing outdated content if they expect queue times for group-related thing to remain remotely acceptable. It'd be one thing if most of that was considered "optional" but doing stuff like the Keeper of the Lake and the HM primals is going to be a treat unless the roulette's are:

• Pruned down to only include necessary things (like the story roulette is now, but expanded slightly).
  
• Highly incentivized more than the current story roulette is. 
  

The main story roulette only gives (now-worthless) soldiery tomes and it still sees tons of action to this day. Not sure what you're worried about here. If anything, I'd be more concerned about the low-level roulette which has always been a bit slow and will likely only be even slower post-Heavensward (especially if they follow through on the new jobs NOT starting at level 1).

 

At any rate, there's going to be TONS of returning players plowing through that old content simultaneously, so this is really only a concern months after Heavensward's release.

 

3) It just seems silly to me to totally lock people out of what sounds like it'll be a new hub area until they reach a certain threshold. Let people go and see why they bought the expansion immediately, even if they can't take any quests or anything. I can understand locking the story content behind a gate, to a degree. You need context to really care. But locking the main new city? Why?

 

Of course, that's all assuming that the quest they mentioned is only completable after finishing the rest of the story up. It could very well be a gigantic catch-up/flash back quest that basically just gets you up to speed after you've hit level 50.

Oh, I can agree with that. Not being able to enter Ishgard at all is a bit much, but then again, the story event that allows us access to it is supposed to be a momentous event, and if you haven't reached that point in the story and yet still have access to it... it's a bit jarring, isn't it?

 

This is just one of those things... gameplay and story separation might be preferable here, but frankly I can see the call going either way, and they chose to emphasize the story side of the equation. That's all there is to it.

[Berrod Armstrong]

You've got three and a half months, if you get started now, you'll be done in time.

[Arelian Solin]

1) New players and people that plain haven't done the MSQ up to 2.55 will have a lot of post-50 content to chew through and they'll likely be well above level 50 by the time they get to Heavensward content. It seems a little counter-intuitive to design content that's meant to be done at level 50 but you're physically unable to access it until level 51+ as a new player.

Concerning the bolded... I'm confused by what you're saying here. Are you talking about the expansion content (which is definitely level 51+ content right off the bat) or talking about the patch 2.x series content? The former case is obviously incorrect, but even the latter case makes no sense to me, because you're gated by ilvl anyway and having access to level 51+ gear should only make those ilvl gates easier to reach... right?

 

 

2) SE is going to have to really, really incentivize doing outdated content if they expect queue times for group-related thing to remain remotely acceptable. It'd be one thing if most of that was considered "optional" but doing stuff like the Keeper of the Lake and the HM primals is going to be a treat unless the roulette's are:

• Pruned down to only include necessary things (like the story roulette is now, but expanded slightly).
  
• Highly incentivized more than the current story roulette is. 
  

The main story roulette only gives (now-worthless) soldiery tomes and it still sees tons of action to this day. Not sure what you're worried about here. If anything, I'd be more concerned about the low-level roulette which has always been a bit slow and will likely only be even slower post-Heavensward (especially if they follow through on the new jobs NOT starting at level 1).

 

At any rate, there's going to be TONS of returning players plowing through that old content simultaneously, so this is really only a concern months after Heavensward's release.

 

3) It just seems silly to me to totally lock people out of what sounds like it'll be a new hub area until they reach a certain threshold. Let people go and see why they bought the expansion immediately, even if they can't take any quests or anything. I can understand locking the story content behind a gate, to a degree. You need context to really care. But locking the main new city? Why?

 

Of course, that's all assuming that the quest they mentioned is only completable after finishing the rest of the story up. It could very well be a gigantic catch-up/flash back quest that basically just gets you up to speed after you've hit level 50.

Oh, I can agree with that. Not being able to enter Ishgard at all is a bit much, but then again, the story event that allows us access to it is supposed to be a momentous event, and if you haven't reached that point in the story and yet still have access to it... it's a bit jarring, isn't it?

 

This is just one of those things... gameplay and story separation might be preferable here, but frankly I can see the call going either way, and they chose to emphasize the story side of the equation. That's all there is to it.

 

To address the points in order:

 

1) I worded it strangely, perhaps. But it's sort of like, uh. We'll all be entering Ishgard/Heavensward content at level 50 because the 2.xx storylines didn't award any exp due to them being level-cap only. It's hard to imagine that they'll continue to award no exp, so people that are doing the 2.xx storyline after Heavensward is released will be above level 50 when they can enter Ishgard. It just seems strange to me, really.

 

2) A concern is still a concern, even if it's only applicable months after the expac drops. I have no doubt that they've some system in mind to address the issue as they've been fairly spot-on for it.

 

Though I'm hesitant to call soldiery tomes useless. I know plenty of people that want the tomes for Relic books and i100 weapons and fishing the story roulette is a good way to get first-clear bonuses. So it's likely a problem that can fix itself as long as Tomestones aren't locked for the first two weeks like they hinted. Still, a concern is a concern.

 

They've already spoken about reorganizing the roulettes to begin with, so we'll see. As of right now, however, it's a little inducing.

 

3) I'm not sure if I can necessarily agree with getting into Ishgard being some momentous event that's supposed to be "special" if only because we don't know why we'll be getting access as of yet. It's entirely possible they've just opened the goddamn floodgates because shit's gotten extremely real and they need all the help they can get. SPECULATION.

 

I'm still not terribly happy about it, especially if they lock the new jobs within Ishgard. Though I have a hard time thinking they'll put everything in there to begin with. Seems like a great way to give some serious congestion issues.

[Kurt S.]

I have roughly 3 months to get Effie to level 50, then gear her with at least i90 gear....same with Nah...and Keil. Then I'll bring Kurt through the MSQ. I've only just met Teledji and Yugiri, I still have a number of content to chew through right? A Zenith would be sufficient for it right?

 

Ah well I'll savor my journey to 50 on Effie. Let everyone turn Ishgard into lag central and all.

 

Granted, I got Nah to 50 in the space of less than a week.

 

Also, Keil is practically the only one of my characters who'll probably end up in Ishgard due to his personal storyline, assuming I can make it work. I'm not really sure if Nako will bring his errand boy/girl along neither. It could be Kurt'll be left behind to hold the fort while the boss goes on an adventure T_T

[Kismet]

We have a little over three and a half months until the expansion hits... Is that not enough time to get the MSQ done for most people?

[TheLastCandle]

We have a little over three and a half months until the expansion hits... Is that not enough time to get the MSQ done for most people?

 

Playing quite casually, it took me a little over a month to get through the MSQ as my alt, for what it's worth.