Zhavi

Brindle scoffed. "What, th'beatin' didn't work so now ye's gone all chumsy? Ye might well have a ship and a whole net o' lads t'back ye, but that ain't scarin' me. I dusted th'last ones an' I'll dust ye too!" He folded his arms and glared for all he was worth.

Fair point. Maybe I'm just a teensy bit pouty, but I still just feel so disappointed in those quests. They could have done so much to clarify and add to what we already had there, and instead I feel like it was written so that Limsa justified the existence of how special and awesome the rogue's guild is, while cutting down a lot of the stuff that was hinted at. ...maybe I'm throwing a little bit of a tantrum. But I was/am so disappointed! I guess that's why I keep whining about it and feel so strongly (especially in this thread) -- I did try to build more public Limsa rp back before rl stuff made me have to majorly cut back (which is when I discovered that there is plenty of rp there -- it's just mostly hidden or private/LS/FC oriented), and because of that it felt like the rogue stuff cut the knees out from the specific area of Limsa that I was most personally interested in and had built on with a number of other rpers.

^^^^^ Also, I just want to gently point out that what's boring for one person isn't necessarily boring for another. Both Aya and myself (edit - and kellach, for that matter, in his style of writing) make the 'I feel' and 'in my opinion' statements enough to cover that aspect -- in my case, I just feel strongly about it. It's perfectly fine for someone else to think I'm dead wrong, but that's not going to stop me from passionately nerding out and arguing my case! I have nothing against anyone who feels mildly or strongly in the other direction (or even someone who's like 'I don't care, Limsa sucks' ... though that would make me sadpants) Intaki - That's how I'm playing it, but the way I read those quests came across very much 'don't steal from other Limsans, don't kill other Limsans, don't do anything bad to any other Limsans or else you'll be dealt with definitively' -- which is what I don't like when coupled with the 'we enforce 100% of this 100% of the time'. If I completely misread it or misinterpreted it, fine. I had at least one person message me on my return to tell me 'you should probably do the rogue quests, because they contradict the rp you did prior,' which was, in part, why I felt that was indeed the correct interpretation. Am I wrong? It rather seems like Aya got the same read on it that I did -- but you know, different eyes and all that.

Because there are elements of that everywhere. The privateers. The smuggling. The hints of bloody conflict between pirate gangs (Missing Member, for example). The fact that Limsa is a place where a lot of money runs through, and there are still plenty of pirates whose interests fall within their own crew rather than national agenda. The fact that they chose to place the rogue guild in Limsa at all shows that there is still plenty of dirty crap going on underfoot, and enough of it that it needs regulating. The Admiral does have clout, of course! That's why she has the Maelstrom. But when it comes to people trying to make as much of a profit as they can, there are still going to be plenty who are running under the radar doing just that. That is what they essentially killed with the rogues, by doing this weird thing where any Limsan vs Limsan fighting gets nulled. And that is the rp venue that I feel was done in, and partially what continues to make Limsa feel less coherent, and thus less of a place where open player run rp is likely to flourish. I'm not arguing that there is no conflict period in limsa, but that " I feel like they sort of just drove right past a lot of the interesting points of conflict in order to make the rogues the Super Speshul Batman Crew who make sure there's no inter-conflict in the city!" -- by inter-conflict I mean between pirate crews etc. A slim distinction, yeah, but one I'm making anyways. That's why I compared them to batman.

I agree with Aya. I also feel that it just doesn't make sense. I do not mind the idea of a more secretive policing force who operate alongside the law rather than directly beneath it (shit happens in real life too), but the way it was implemented and the breadth of it (we're everywhere and know everything!) makes Limsa feel more like a two-dimensional caricature of a setting than a richly developed and complex balance of forces (as, I feel, Ul'dah does). I'm not saying Limsa should be a repeat of Ul'dah, or even Gridania, but as Aya said I feel like they sort of just drove right past a lot of the interesting points of conflict in order to make the rogues the Super Speshul Batman Crew who make sure there's no inter-conflict in the city! I echo Aya's sentiments about too potent and too righteous. You have plenty of that in Ul'dah! I think there's way more room for the rogue's guild to have been struggling to protect the image of Limsa as Merlwyb had sold it, doing the unasked for tasks that she can't do and fighting an uphill battle in the process, succeeding by the narrowest of margins thanks to their superior tactics and information gathering. Instead we got 'what?! Limsans don't fight each other! That's mean and unfriendly and we won't tolerate it! We'll police the entire city so it doesn't happen! And it doesn't! Ever!' Which, I just... that's the sort of thing I'd expect from the comic relief character. It makes me sad to see that in Limsa.

and the people who associated Limsa with criminals ONLY didn't understand Limsa at all either unless you forego the entirety of the blacksmiths/armorers/culinarians/arcanists and farmers of Middle La Noscea. Were there people who associated Limsa with criminals only? If so, I never ran into any of them! I do, however, know of plenty of people who chose to focus on the criminal element (and its interaction/friction with the legitimate business and reformed collective) -- but interest in that shaky balance between a city trying to be honest/reformed and the undercurrents of criminals trying to continue the status quo was, for some of us, greatly dampened by what I feel is very poor writing. I'm sure some people like it, but I feel it did not help make Limsa more cohesive or interesting as a city-state. It just made it feel more piecemeal to me.

I'm willing to be (in)voluntary indentured servitude is a thing, too. Little bit easier to pass off as legal if someone is just "working off" a debt. Forcibly.

Jesus, our characters could be sisters. ... if you're willing to give me a shot (I seem to continually have issues with being reliable), I would love to brainstorm with you.

Yeah everything in Ul'dah is very iconic. When my Brass Blade walks around and hassles people, there is no shared background that is needed, everyone knows what the blades are, everyone knows they're usually jerks, and everyone has an idea of how to act around them. I have no idea how the yellowjackets work, besides 'they're guards!' Perhaps thats just because people know more about Ul'dah? But I think as others have said ,Ul'dah certainly gets more story than the other 2 cities. Back when Melodia was trying to put together player run Yellowjackets, and Dogberry was putting together the linkshell for Limsa security, there was some digging around for lore. The general gist I got out of it was that, guess what, there isn't a whole lot said about it. The jackets were a splinter off the Maelstrom, and besides some generic corruption there just was nothing like what you got for the brass blades and sultansworn. Limsa was built as the rogue's haven against the world, where the idea was reformed pirates and privateers butting heads with the organized/civilized former pirates. It's a clusterfuck of teeny tiny bursts of information (like the ladies of the Missing Member) that don't really have connections to other bits of information. That's why I had to pretty much make up my own npcs and groups when I made Zhi. Besides the yellowjackets as general guards and some basic how-to on pirate set up, there wasn't really anything big enough to hold on to. And the rogues just made it so much worse, imo.

*steals* I think the issue with Limsa in terms of big open rp viability tends to be that it is piecemeal. You don't have as dominating of factions and politics as you have in Ul'dah, meaning that besides "pirates, lol" you have to headcanon a lot of stuff. That means that people rp in their groups, because so much of the rp is dependent on how any given person decides to rp it -- unless you're just using Limsa as a setting for private stuff. Ul'dah gives just enough concrete information to allow players to take over and develop. Limsa, most of the time, doesn't give enough. Yeah, that's exciting, and the bare-bones setting is interesting, but that makes it difficult to attract the spontaneous player-run open rp you see in Ul'dah.

I generally pretend the rogues are too small and insular a group to affect the majority of Limsan dealings. I just can't. They ruined most of what made Limsa fun for me, so I work around them and in spite of them.

The man's face had just enough time to start to contort from surprise to alarm before Zhi bowled between him and the woman he'd been -- well, no harm if she helped herself to the pile of clothing, offering naught but a cheeky grin and a slammed door in her wake. A shriek rose up behind her, high and feminine and indignant, and Zhi stored away the memory of their bodies for another time. Meanwhile, she had a hat to jam over her head, a man's shirt and a skirt that didn't quite go together but would do in a pinch. She stripped and dressed as she walked down the hall, leaving one very confused (and sore, given her elbow to his nose) cabinboy in her wake. Seven doors down, she tried a room and found it locked. Out came the pins, sweat starting to bead on her brow, and she attacked the lock with the vigor of the damned. The mechanisms were heavy, causing her to waste precious seconds. And even after that, there was a bolt to wrestle with and -- Nald'thal, tip it damn you -- she wrenched the door open, slipped inside, and slammed it behind her. Three people had seen her. Two would recognize the clothing she wore presently, and as for the rest, she balled it up and shoved it into a barrel. Her eyes adjusted quickly to the darkness -- she was in some sort of storage room -- and she went straight to the shuttered window. She drew back the shutters, and found the window sealed. Outside the thick, warped glass, she could see the heavy mooring chain she'd intended to crawl down. "Fuck, fuck," she hissed, banging her fist once, twice against the glass. She wasn't going to break it. She cast around, and started in on one of the closed barrels. Something in here would help her escape. She just had to find it first.

Shoulders hunched against the possibility of a fist or worse, Brindle turned his face away from the rag and clenched his teeth together. Through them, he hissed, "ye ain't tryin' t'help, an' gods'll strike ye flat afore I tell ye nothin'."

If you want to do something, do it. Organize it, cultivate it, and be there. That's all you really need besides time and patience. There are numerous people who rp in La Noscea and Limsa -- they just don't make it a point to talk about it on the RPC. If you want to tap into that, you're going to have to contact them and arrange for there to be more rp out in the open. It's far from impossible, you just need to dedicate time to it.

Bruises atop bruises. It hurt in that pinched-up way that made focusing on anything difficult, the least of which was walking and the worst of which was the roegadyn who currently had a good grip on him. Brindle didn't care much about the pain, but the worry gnawing at his insides he could've done without. "Who?" Not his best act, aye, but he wasn't about to cave without trying.

Character Fear? Commitment. How do they cope? She doesn't. She isn't even aware it is a fear; she thinks of herself as being practical and wise to the ways of the world. How do people respond to their fear? Usually negatively. She's selfish and unreliable and smells bad as part of her quest to keep people from using her. Do you think one day they could be cured of there fear? Not in any real way. She's damaged in a way that doesn't really lend itself to happy endings.

He was moving forward, until he wasn't. With the fear of getting caught fresh on his mind, Brindle lifted his arms and dropped his weight, slipping out of the shirt the big roe was holding. Escape. His weight was on the balls of his feet, and without thinking he dove left, between the legs of another patron. The angle was poor, and he misjudged the gap. Alcohol splashed down on him, and he spend several precious seconds kicking himself free, ignoring the outrage the owner of the drink was pouring down on him. He got his feet under him, dodging the cuff the man aimed at him, and chanced a look back. It was a mistake. He caught a faceful of chair and went down hard.

Caught flatfooted, as Zhi'd say, but it didn't take Brindle long to react. He slipped off the stool, bounced off another patron clamoring for booze, and reeled away from the stranger. In a few seconds, he'd only gone a few fulms, and it just wasn't good enough. Still, he had to try, even in the too-packed crowd.

Creativity, consistency, and the kindness that has been shown to me. Added bonus for the kickass writers who come and stick around.

When someone repeatedly misses dialogue, actions, or expressions to the point of not responding to what my character is doing in their replies, even after a gentle nudge towards what I've posted. Eventually it feels like they don't really want to rp with you, just a reflection of themselves. It's super super rare (and everyone misses something time to time), but when it happens I get twitchy.

Given the tribe descriptions, the devs didn't just pull from Mongolian (or hell, even central eurasian) nomadic practices. Some of the descriptions make me think there's African, far eastern Russian, and maybe even some Central American influences going on. So, don't fret that you don't know a ton about Mongolian culture -- I honestly don't get the vibe that the devs meant for the Xaela to be a carbon copy of what it means to be a Mongolian pastoral nomad -- hell, some of the descriptions in there even directly contradict how steppe nomads actually work! (looking at you, vegetarian tribe) Some nomad basics are this: they're tough. They're usually very welcoming of outsiders (it is a HUGE thing for many nomad cultures to properly treat guests. Even if those guests are strangers, they are welcomed in, given the best food, and the best place to sleep), typically self sufficient, if they are pastoral nomads they generally have a well-rounded knowledge of animal husbandry, they have deep spiritual beliefs (though that's not exclusive to nomads), they typically carry more than one type of weapon, and if pastoral nomads of horses they are masterful riders. Many pastoral nomads also don't really treat their animals like pets -- while they deeply respect and honor their animals, except for the occasional especially beloved animal, their animals are not part of their families. If you want to include some Mongolian flavor, their three most manly sports are wrestling, horse racing, and archery. They tend to carry their wealth in useful things (such as embroidered deels (which the game does not have and I do not believe the xaela wear), headdresses, gers, or other useful things -- nomads do not have unnecessary stuff), and from what undergrad/grad papers I've read from those staying with modern pastoral nomadic families, tend to be a gregarious people. And from my professors who have done work with russian pastoral nomads, it's the same. They're generally an upbeat, mischievous bunch (though, don't take that to mean all the time -- they're still people, and people are all different from each other). f you want to take some tidbits from digs of ancient peoples such as the Scythians, warriors are at the top of the pecking order when it comes to reverence. Horses are symbolic of wealth. Weed was used at funeral rites. They had short range and long range bows, as well as different types of arrows (which is true of ancient Mongolians as well). The men spent long, long chunks of time away from home, and in some cases the women would marry male slaves (though this is something that should be taken with a grain of salt). Slavery was very common, both in taking slaves from other tribes, and from outside cultures. They weren't above being bribed with luxury goods, and only the rich would have such otherwise useless goods. Felt was (and is) a common type of cloth. They wore bright colors, particularly yellow, blue, and red. Also throat singing and the horse-head fiddle. And if you want some music, Altai Hangai: If you want some art, Mongol Zurag is great due to its focus on Mongolian culture. B. Sharav is one of the masters of this style - But, honestly, do what you enjoy. The devs have made sure with the family tidbits that there is no one right way when it comes to xaela.

Did get that! Which makes the fact that I can't get the password recovery e-mail even more frustrating. It looks like they might not even be open on weekends =| Okay, so to check to see if they've gotten to it, click the link at the bottom that leads to 'cancel ticket'. If you get this: Then the email is on its way. For reference, I submitted a ticket on a sunday and got an email response on a wednesday (which in turn directed me to phone and chat).

Did you get an automated 'we received your ticket' email? If not, do a thorough spam folder check. Your only other options are phone and that horrid chat queue.

Thank you all so much. I read these to my mom and she broke down crying. More than any of us, she blames herself the most. We're taking action, but due to state law it doesn't look like a whole lot will happen. We'll see. It's just so fucked up. I've never seen my parents cry so much in my life. There's been a lot going on for them (even more than my own issues and shit), and this pretty much was the cherry on top of the fuck-you cake. So, thank you. It means more than you know. I know this is a gaming forum, and it feels like a little bit of oversharing to me, but somehow in the sharing with people for a moment it makes it a little less awful. My dad is generally not an emotive man, but with the vet and officer telling him just how badly she suffered, and him telling me, it was like I was seeing a little piece of him dying inside. Heart wrenching quote of the day from my 4 year old niece: "Well, I know she's dead, but I really miss her a lot."

Oh I'm so sorry that is not only devastating but you must feel awful about the "if only". I don't see how it could just die like that but that's not the point *hugs* Vet finished the necropsy. She had apparently been on her side suffering for a long time, very dehydrated (bladder was completely empty and dry). So it was hot and she had no water. Her heart and lungs eventually gave out. Horrible, horrible way to go. He told us it was completely preventable. If she'd been given water and a cool place, she would be fine.