Dogberry

But there's no dispute that it's barbed, right?

That's all well and good, but you also made it clear in earlier posts that you would overwrite attributes of the character - finding flaws in their stance in the Lvl 1 Pugilist, even if they were playing a master. Not only is your character responding accordingly, which could be plausible - perhaps they are surprised when the Lvl 1 Pugilist turns out to be a much better fighter than expected - but you, on an OOC level, are responding to the character as if they are weak, eliminating or ignoring traits they may display in RP to the contrary. That is to say, if the Lvl 1 Pugilist responded with a Dragon Kick, would it be fair to say you would either play the Dragon Kick as being necessarily weak because of course a Lvl 1 Pugilist can't do that well, or would you take the more common route of just pretending the character is insane and ignoring the move? This is admittedly a bit of a false dichotomy, because in both cases your reaction has gone beyond your character's and into rewriting reality to fit your character's perceptions. Honestly? I simply don't think anyone at level 1 should be claiming mastery. It makes me not even want to bother with the person. They're clearly playing a different game than I am, the one where they get the instant gratification macho power fantasy based on arbitrary parameters, as opposed to the one I'm playing, the one where I get the delayed gratification macho power fantasy based on arbitrary parameters. Edit: And to actually answer the question... If the Level 1 Pugilist emotes a Dragon Kick, and it hits through the roll off, the Dragon kick hits, and it might even be powerful, but it was bad form. Bad form kicks still hurt.

I have been, and I don't really see how its any different from how I categorized it. You'e worried about the look, and kit of characters representing their role correctly. I really think its entirely unnecessary (which is why I said what I did about a level 1 in starter clothes RPing as if in fancy noble attire). Maybe its just because I am a pen-and-paper and forum RPer at heart. I feel that the avatar should be, at most, a visual-aid for RP when appropriate, but that its the text that is canonical, important, and interesting for RP. If the avatar is useless as a visual aid, I really don't mind, I am more than willing to go along with it, if I'm enjoying the RP. To me, the avatar is a tool, not a limitation. I see far more possibility for fun that way, and wouldn't have it any other way. I know you at least understand that, since you're willing to RP classes that simply don't exist. So I can't fully understand why you apply a different rubric to those that do. To me, they're completely the same. What matters is the RP world, not the game-as-game. I really want to say, again, that I'm not trying to convince you to do otherwise. It really is to each their own, enjoyment of RP is an entirely subjective matter. The only thing I took any exception to, whatsoever, was the suggestion that people who don't want to level a character to RP it, shouldn't bother with MMO RP. See, I'm an avid pen and paper RPer as well, and I think this informs a large part of my RP. In Pen and Paper games, you have a character sheet that defines what your character can and can't do. Likewise, I also see the avatar as a tool. As I've said, it is a puppet. If you can't be bothered to make your puppet look like the thing you want it to be, why should your character have any pull any kind of weight in my RP? One of my favorite pen and paper RPGs, in fact, is called Argyle and Crew, and in the game your character sheet is a sock puppet. You're given two attributes that you can costume onto your sock puppet. So if your character is a wizard, you make a little paper wizard hat and put it on your sock puppet. If your character is also a sherriff, they get a sheriff badge, too. So your sock puppet, who you've put time into by making it look like the best wizard sheriff you can possibly make, gets to be a wizard and a sheriff for the game, and this informs what you can do to affect the story. I see our characters a lot like sock puppets in Argyle and Crew. Someone who looks like a wizard is going to be seen as a wizard regardless of level. They put in the effort to look the part, they get to be the part. Taking it further, a character in higher level gear is wearing something more befitting a master than someone in Plundered gear. So someone in Plundered gear could very well be a master, but he looks like a scrub, and my character will respond accordingly. Edit: I should also add that Forum RP bores me to tears.

I've read the entirety of your posts I've responded to! I just entirely disagree on the idea that RP concepts should be tied to the avatar. I think the FF XIV character is a very very poor construct for RP, and virtually useless for any RP that I'm really interested in partaking in. Whether or not I like a character concept is entirely independent of the class levels, gear, etc. of the character trying to pull it off. Osric's point is entirely different, its based upon knowledge, cohesion with the lore, and plausible suspension of disbelief. I don't really agree with him that class level correlates well to the ability to craft an interesting and believable character (even of that class), I definitely understand where he's coming from. I've just RPed with enough alts, and NPC-alts that I really couldn't care less if the avatar I'm RPing with is even the same race as that of the character. Go back and read the stuff I wrote in posts you didn't respond to and you'll see what I'm trying to say laid out more clearly.

Its not that you said you wouldn't RP with level 1 characters, its that you said level 1 characters should not even bother RPing in this game (though I realize that may be tongue-in-cheek, that's what I'm replying to). You didn't read anything else I wrote beyond that, did you?

Could someone have played a knife fighter prior to the rogue class? A gunfighter prior to the Machinist, a two-handed swordsman prior to the Dark Knight? Could someone dual wield swords, fight with a rapier and dagger, fight with a saber and an open-hand? What about someone that wants to use a blowgun, or a sling? What about a whip or someone specialization in ground-fighting or grappling rather than the pummeling strikes of the traditional pugilist? What about a cat burglar, a forest scout, or chocobo-mounted cavalryman with a lance (but not exactly a lancer in FF terms)? Are these verboten without having a class of appropriate level to back it up? If they're not, then what relevance, really, is the class? I understand the idea of not wanting to invest much energy in RP with someone who you don't feel confident will be worth the investment (and if you find, somehow, that level is a truly important indicator for judging that, then so be it!). But this idea that somehow willing to accept in RP that a character can be more than the stats of their stand-in-avatar, means we should shuffle back to the forum RP hole we crawled out of, is pretty much ridiculous; not to mention that the attitude behind the remark cuts-off an immense amount of potential RP and fun. As a pure hypothetical I'd rather spend all of my time with fun and enjoyable level 1 RPers, than the most accomplished but boring level 60's. In essence, I put fun foremost, have no trouble resorting to my imagination, and really try not to be bothered by anything that is irrelevant to what I'm actually doing. I would much rather spend my time imagining that the starting-gear-clad person is garbed in the fancy outfit of a wealthy nobleman, than trying to pretend that the bore is actually fun to RP with. You really don't have to do the same, but I don't see any reason to go on the offensive against people daring to pretend while role playing. Edit: For that matter, Aya typically stands 4-6" taller than her avatar due to being two inches taller (5' 10") than the maximum Midlander female height, and enjoying wearing high heels. I can't possibly represent this in-game due to the strict limitations of the engine we're given to play in. Should I simply forgo that aspect of her physical characteristics so that no one is challenged to imagine her standing taller than they see in game? How is that, really, any different a case? For all these examples, I say this: The gameplay vs. lore argument is entirely different from level vs. RP. If someone wants to RP a different kind of combat than what is offered, they can level up the closest job and at least make an attempt to look the part of what they're trying to play. A knife-fighter before Rogue could equip knives, because before Rogue, Gladiators had access to knives. People can RP weapons that aren't represented just fine. Dogberry himself has used a pistol in the past, before Machinist, because he was a member of a military organization that uses guns, and fights like an MMA fighter. I can't help but feel that you're putting words in my mouth. When did I say I'd never RP with level 1 characters?

Am I limiting it, though? I certainly won't tell you that you can't play a waitress, or a model. If someone wants to be Eorzea's greatest plumber, shine on you crazy diamond. Those things are outside the scope of the game, though. The game is about high fantasy swords and sorcery, so most people are going to make characters suited for that in order to maximize their story potential. So if you're making a character in line with the scope of the game, why would your power not be in some way, even on a severe sliding scale, tied to their in game avatar?

Yes. If you're a level 1 Pugilist, in my eyes, your character is a level 1 Pugilist. To me, metagaming and godmoding is claiming your character has abilities it clearly doesn't have. If you can't be bothered to level up a job to at least a level where you can pull off a look that fits the job beyond "freshly made character", then I don't see why my character should recognize the skills yours claims to have. If you're going to RP a character and not level them, why even subscribe to the game? You'd probably be a lot better suited doing forum RP. Gaia Online is over there, bro. Emphasis mine. If I misjudged and you did not see the second part of that question, then we've been going along different paths here. I interpreted inspect as "taking a look at", not "right click and examine".

Emphasis mine. You seem to think I'm going to check someone's profile to judge them but I don't see how what I said could give you that impression.

Understandable. But how much power would attribute to this thug? Purely based on level, he wouldn't have much at all. Yet, if - RP-wise - he has spent his entire life fighting and struggling and in constant conflict, he could have quite a bit. Not just in physical power, but in combat experience from all the brawls he's gotten into. So, say your character is walking down the street after a nice night at the pub, and this thug accosts you. Would you write him off because of the level difference? Keep in mind, you - as the player - have no idea of this rich and storied history this guy has created. All you see is a shirtless level one Highlander Pugilist in his starting gear pants and his weathered hora. And he's emoting that he's trying to mug you. My practical answer to this would be for Dogberry to assume the guy's just some cream puff, and then settle the fight with dice. If Dogberry loses, he loses. The truth is, unskilled fighters beating skilled ones isn't unheard of. In the case of a loss, Dog's ego is bruised, and he gets salty over a lucky punch. If he wins, he can then go on to critique the guy's fighting style.

Can you show me where I said this?

Supplementary question. Let's say they add enough vanity gear that you can make a level 1 character look like a Flame Sergeant. Preordering the next expansion gives you a set of dye-able Sergeant-looking gear that is all level 1. Said working mom does this and dresses up her level 1 swordswoman - wearing that gear and her starting sword. Would she be considered any less than if she had leveled to 20 and gotten the "proper" Flame Sergeant gear? Or, alternately, someone decides to play a Highlander refugee street-brawler who runs around in shorts and sandals looking for a good fight. He can easily looks the part he is trying to RP - a streetwise, underhanded fist-fighting thug - even at level one. He even goes so far as to portrays his Weathered Hora as being a set of knuckles he's been using for years and have worn down to the point that they look weathered - since he can't afford to replace them and they have sentimental value. Would he be considered "too fresh" to be taken as a weathered brawler with years of combat under his (possibly made of rope) belt? Another fantastic question. I suppose this comes from my penchant for RPing actual game content. If I met this character in Ul'dah, and they came across as an authority figure, I would most definitely treat them as such. That ends when they leave the city and they are et by a 'bon. That would likely lead to snarky remarks about how they'll make anyone a Flame Sergeant these days oo-rah hooray Maelstrom. In the second instance, it's entirely possible to play a streetwise, underhanded fist-fighting thug at level 1. Characters lead lives before we create them, and if that's been his life so far, it's fine, people can spend years in mediocrity and obscurity before they make their major break. Level 1 for me represents the first break from mediocrity. The point at which your character first shows a spark for greatness, and it can happen at any point in someone's life. You can claim years of experience, but not mastery. I have years of experience playing the guitar, and I can shred reasonably well but I am by no means a master on the level of Yngwie Malmsteen. If I lived in an guitar-based MMO, I would say the moment I make a breakthrough in my playing from "hobbyist" to "amateur" would be the point at which I hit level 1.

If the character uses weathered hora to portray that their character is humble, and uses simple weapons, go ahead and use them. But if your character is using weathered hora because they literally can't equip anything else, then I don't feel your character can claim status as a legend. I interpret Level 1 as the point where your character devotes their life to a certain thing. They are the novice that has taken their first serious steps toward mastery. Everyone starts out making that decision. They will devote their life to mastery of the sword, or they're going to become a great fisherman. If you are skilled in something, and see a novice attempt the thing you're skilled in, you can immediately tell they are a novice. To make a character and role play mastery of a thing is truly godmoding. Emoting isn't just the be-all-end-all of RP for me, I guess. I consider my character something like a puppet, and characterization for puppetry goes a lot farther than sticking your hand in a sock and moving your hands. You can do what you like with your $15, but don't presume upon my $15. And to answer your question, I know nothing about you OOC, let alone, IC, so you could probably come up in any kind of gear you wanted, claiming to be anything at all, and my character could have no real reason to doubt you, even if you were claiming to be a bard and your character was actually a paladin or something. But, what's that thing where you use OOC knowledge to gain something over on another character called? I think it's called... metagaming?

So because the character is wearing weathered horas he's going to see things wrong with his body mechanics. Not just assume, nor think he sees, but literally you're going to assign wrong factors to the other characters mechanics because you know that that is a level 1 weapon and you've Inspected his level to be low? There are names for that kind of behavior in RP. They're metagaming and godmoding. The journey can be roleplayed without game mechanics. Yes. If you're a level 1 Pugilist, in my eyes, your character is a level 1 Pugilist. To me, metagaming and godmoding is claiming your character has abilities it clearly doesn't have. If you can't be bothered to level up a job to at least a level where you can pull off a look that fits the job beyond "freshly made character", then I don't see why my character should recognize the skills yours claims to have. If you're going to RP a character and not level them, why even subscribe to the game? You'd probably be a lot better suited doing forum RP. Gaia Online is over there, bro. I'd like to present a question I'm honestly curious about given this statement, Dogberry: at what level would they have to reach to pull off that "not fresh" look? Again, I'd like to use the busy working mom example - someone who only has enough time for an hour or two to hang our with her friends who all RP in FFXIV. She wants to RP a skilled swordswoman, let's say a Sergeant in the Flames or something. At what point would she lose the "freshly made character" stigma and be honestly considered as the character she would like to play in that short window of time she has to play it? It's a unique situation, certainly, but I'm just curious where your opinion stands on it. This is a fantastic question. Can the character equip gear that would be practical for a skilled swordsman to wear? It doesn't take a whole lot of levelling to achieve that look. So the character claims to be a Flame Sergeant. Can the character equip the Flame Sergeant set? That's only what, level 20 gear? It's entirely believable for a level 20 character in Flame Sergeant gear to be a skilled swordsman, and be taken seriously in character. I don't think "skilled swordsman" is an outrageous claim for a character of that level and gear. "Legendary swordsman" would be pushing it. But if you're not even willing to level up your flame sergeant character to that level, don't start barking orders in my ear like your Gunnery Sergeant Hartman.

So because the character is wearing weathered horas he's going to see things wrong with his body mechanics. Not just assume, nor think he sees, but literally you're going to assign wrong factors to the other characters mechanics because you know that that is a level 1 weapon and you've Inspected his level to be low? There are names for that kind of behavior in RP. They're metagaming and godmoding. The journey can be roleplayed without game mechanics. Yes. If you're a level 1 Pugilist, in my eyes, your character is a level 1 Pugilist. To me, metagaming and godmoding is claiming your character has abilities it clearly doesn't have. If you can't be bothered to level up a job to at least a level where you can pull off a look that fits the job beyond "freshly made character", then I don't see why my character should recognize the skills yours claims to have. If you're going to RP a character and not level them, why even subscribe to the game? You'd probably be a lot better suited doing forum RP. Gaia Online is over there, bro.

I tend to play out The Journey. Dogberry started out as J. Random Bareknuckle Boxer in pit fights so mickey mouse he couldn't even hack it in The Bloodsands. He trained, and now he's a world class fist fighter. By no means a kung-fu master, but on par with someone on the professional boxing/MMA circuit for sure. He did the same with the spear, going from a Limsa Lominsan whaler, to a bonafide polearm facewrecker. I didn't just start out with Dogberry claiming to be Eorzea's Muhammad Ali. I was more interested in playing out his rise from a nobody to something more. The time I spent putting effort into the character was the time my character spent training in an 80's movie style montage kind of way. Maybe I'm a giant jerk, but if you're a lowbie pugilist pulling the Ali shtick, the in character response from Dogberry will be to see all of that bravado as foolish bluster, and when you hit Z to pull out your Weathered Horas, he's going to see a thousand things wrong with your body mechanics.

So the Scions shouldn't be taken seriously because of the clothes they wear? The scions shouldn't be taken seriously regardless of the clothes they wear.

It doesn't count for everything, but I'm going to be more inclined to have Dogberry take the boasts of a level 50 in Dreadwyrm more seriously than a level 15 in Plundered set.

Considering for a short period, Dogberry was suspected of being tempered by Leviathan, even going so far as to declare himself Lord of the Whorl in a fit of aetherial madness, I'm going to have to say Leviathan. In a way, Dogberry reveres Leviathan more than the Twelve. He has seen and touched Leviathan, which is more than he can say for Llymlaen. Leviathan has had a major impact on his life in a way the Twelve have not. An argument could be made that Dogberry's obsession has been a form of worship all this time.

Stormwind and Rhianna - You two come as a matched set. You are my partners in crime. Playing FFXIV with you two has been a blast. We've been through a lot, raiding, RP, pretty much everything this game can throw at us, we've tackled together, and it has been such a rewarding experience. This plot we pulled off has been crazy, and you both deserve credit for how awesome you have been, and continue to be. We are nakama. Our kokoros doki doki as one uguuuuu~ Menelwen - Thank you for all of your help over the last year. You've been an absolute joy to play with. You've done so much for us, and I hope we have been able to give in kind. Menelwen's angle was one of my favorite aspects of this plot. You killed it. You've proven a great friend, and I absolutely love RPing with you. Which we should do more of, BTW. Vash - Do you even post here anymore? Well, anyway, I love the dynamic between Vash and Dogberry, and the end of this plot has really fleshed out a lot between our characters. Vash is infuriating and yet likable at the same time, which is something that it hard for a lot of people to RP. Xenedra - It's been what, nine years since Canta Per Me? I can't believe it. You've been a joy to RP with over these years, and our many escapades are legendary, at least in my mind. From Bahamut attacking Jeuno, to the Alternate Timeline, The Ghost Whale, and The Great Escape, it's been a complete blast. Castus - You seriously have the craziest stories, but beyond that, I like how Dogberry and Castus play off each other. Still more, I think Iskierka and Castus probably have the better dynamic, both being devoted voidsent exterminators. I'm looking forward to helping you get the new FC off the ground. Bryn - Our RP has impacted Dogberry profoundly. The chemistry between Bryn and Dog is palpable, and you bring it to life so well. From the actual RP, to sharing songs on youtube in our off time, I'm always delighted and deeply amused at the things you come up with. To all above, and many more unnamed - More than RP partners, I consider you all true and valued friends.

GATHER ROUND CHILDREN LET ME TELL YOU A STORY I have an Amazon Prime account! It's convenient, most of the time, and it lets me watch the pilot for The Man In The High Castle over and over and over. So I ordered Heavensward on Amazon thinking "Oh yeah, prime members probably get stuff first, blah blah blah ONE CLICK PREORDER THAT SHIT!" So I waited for my early access code. And I waited. And then learned that the policy was that early access codes were not going to be sent until closer to today. So this morning, I wake up at 5 o'clock and enter my code. It's invalid. Perplexed, I do some fiddling around with things. Find out that the code they gave me registers me for the Heavensward itself. Cool! Got that out of the way! But it doesn't get me into early access. Amazon hasn't sent those codes out yet. So I looked up some MORE stuff and found that I can get fox urine - yes, bonafide, genuine fox urine, delivered to my house TODAY by 9 p.m. this evening. WHAT A DEAL! AMAZON PRIME IS AWESOME! I can order FOX URINE right now and get it today. I can pre-order a game and fail to get an email.

Dogberry would be the stoner skater/surfer. Jeff Spicoli all the way. [video=youtube]

DAMMIT FOX THAT'S NOT A BARREL ROLL THAT'S AN AILERON ROLL GO BACK TO FLIGHT SCHOOL

My preferred airbiker gang anthem: [video=youtube]

I'm gonna join The Buddy Club.