Havoc Snow

I think honestly at this point everyone in here is just arguing in a bloody circle, so the only thing I have left to say on the matter before I stop checking this thread is simply this: A.) If you don't like the new race, then you are completely unaffected by the addition of it because (presumably) you are happy with what you have and will just stick with it. B.) For those of us who do like the new race, we are overjoyed because for some of us it offers an option we will enjoy much more than the currently available options, and for others it offers a new opportunity to play something else not previously available. C.) If you are unhappy with all available options already existing, and also don't like the current race... why the hell are you playing this game? In short, if you are fine with you have but don't like the Au Ra, then just don't play them. If you are excited for the Au Ra, then sweet I look forward to joining all my new lizard brothers and sisters in 3.0! If you don't like anything, new or old, maybe it's time to find a new game?

Even if a few hundred people all voiced their dislike for the race, that is still barely a fraction of the total number of people who either like the race and haven't spoken up, like the race and have spoken up, or just don't give a shit enough to comment one way or the other.

I just want it to look like they actually are of the same race. I mean, we've got roe/lala height difference between the two. I think this is a massive, massive over exaggeration. Is there a height difference? Yes, no one can deny that. But the difference isn't so extreme that they look completely different. I think people are just trying to make big ol' mountains out of tiny little mole hills here.

Just for my own amusement, I checked the official forums. This post got 19 upvotes (not including my own, for obvious reasons ): This post immediately following it has 17 upvotes: And of course, note that upvotes require less effort than actually making a post and that they do a fairly decent job of showing the general opinions of the lurkers. Also note that the thread is 36 pages whereas the Astrologist thread is 10 pages, the Machinist thread is 14 pages and both are largely devoid of negative feedback, mostly praise and declarations of excitement mixed in with speculation. At least for Western players, the Au Ra are getting a very mixed reaction. I want a muscle slider. WHERE'S MY BLOODY MUSCLE SLIDER?! D: FFXIV reportedly has more than 2 million subscribers world wide, and your best argument to show to me that there is more than just a vocal minority of people who don't like them is to show me a few posts that have less than 0.001% of the total user base showing their dislike?

This is a really poor argument. Look, most every other feature of the expansion is pretty much getting universal praise wherever you look. It's only the Au Ra who are getting much in the way of criticism, and that says something. Not only that, it's in such sheer volume that it is pretty much impossible to avoid. The official forums are going to be chock-full of negativity, yes, but this isn't necessarily the case for the entire rest of the Internet. Say what you want, I still think you're wrong on this one. Just because a vocal few are angry and protesting it does not mean that the majority of the playerbase are either excited about it or just don't care.

I don't know that I necessarily agree with this. I think beauty is subjective no matter what culture you are in. I'm sure there are probably at least a few people in Japan who find Roegadyn women beautiful, which is probably the best example of a woman with a rugged appearance we have in FFXIV. I'm willing to bet there are probably a lot more people who find Hyur or Miqo'te a lot more attractive (and thus more appealing to play) than there are people who would want an Argonian or something like that, in either the West or the East. You have to keep in mind that FFXIV is a multination game, it has to appeal to the beauty standards of not just it's home country of Japan, but also Northern America, France, Germany, the UK, Australia, and China (I may be missing a few places, so forgive me if I have). Beauty can be incredibly different in all of these places, but ultimately using typical beauty standards that are common worldwide (such as with the Hyur and Miqo'te) is a safe bet. People tend to be far less critical of what Male characters look like in video games because it's incredibly difficult to go wrong with them. If male characters almost all look the same, or fit into certain stereotypes or follow certain societal standards nobody really gives a shit. If the same thing happens with Female character models people lose their freaking minds over it. In short, it's not really lazy on SEs part. They made the race exactly how they wanted it to look, based on the concept art (which is usually done looooong in advance before renders and ingame models start getting done). What they did do though was play it safe, make a race they knew would appeal to the larger portion of their demographic, which at the end of the day while you can object to it, you can't fault them for it. They are a business after all, and the bottom line is they want to and need to make money on their product, which meant making Dragon Waifus instead of Argonians.

Well, that, and the fact they are alot taller and alot more muscular than the females. So are Roegadyn, what's your point? Also in response to posting a few comments and reviews from across the internet. Pretty much have to agree with what Kage said, people who are unhappy are much more vocal than people who are not. Notice how only the first few pages of this thread had anything positive to say about the race and than the last 15 or so pages have been people arguing and being negative? Would you dare to try and say that the handful of people in this thread responding speak for the entirety of the RPC or the FFXIV community as a whole?

Given the major theme of the expansion is "Dragons" it is entirely unlikely they are anything but Dragonkin, or at least have an appearance inspired by Dragons. That being said, I don't honestly think that the Males look anymore "fierce" than the Females do. The biggest differences are of course the much larger horns and the fact that the Males have that sort of bearded-dragon thing going on in place of having facial hair. Considering it is supposed to replace the aesthetics of having a beard, I can understand why they didn't give it to the females as well. It would be like adding the mutton chops/goatee option that the Miqo'te Males have to the Miqo'te Females. Other than this I suppose the only thing that makes the Males more fierce looking than Females is that the Males seem to have a permanent look of being pissed off.

They've shown a few models with two different horn types and two different colors so far, so I'm really REALLY hoping they have the option to pick between a few different types similar to say the Elezen ear type picker, and then color them independently of our hair/skin color. Would also really appreciate a tail length slider similar to the Miqo'te.

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if there was only as much explanation for their appearance as there was for any other race. After all there is no explanation for why Miqo'te resemble cats, so why would they need to explain why Au Ra look like dragons, other than the fact that SE felt it was fitting to add a new dragon-type race to the very Dragon themed expansion? I think hoping/expecting some sort of elaborate and detailed lore explanation comes from our own small niche of players and out our desire to understand the hows and whys of the world we play and RP in. It goes back to the whole Dragoon debate that was going on about a week ago and people discussing how Dragoons can jump so high, it's not explained... it just is, because that's the theme of the class. So I won't be at all surprised if Heavensward comes out and we get a few paragraphs describing the race as more or less "a race of scaled people that come from Othard" and that is all.

My Lalafell alt would like to have a word with you. Edit: Regarding reasons for why Yugiri hid her appearance, and why she thought it might shock people. If you pay attention to the storyline, every Doman she arrived with is a Hyur (All Midlander as far as I saw), and she comes from a continent that is completely dominated by the Garlean Empire, which is also made up entirely of Hyur (assuming that the whole third eye race is just another subrace of Hyur like Midlander and Highlander). Garleans have also demonstrated that they are incredibly Xenophobic with their hatred for Beast Tribes. For all we know they may share an equal hatred for races like the Miqo'te who still share physical traits with animals. With this in mind, perhaps her and her entire race have lived in fear of persecution for a long time now, and expected the same sort of attitude when she arrived in Eorzea. Even if her appearance is not that shocking to us as the players, she never breaks the fourth wall and says "I'm hiding my face because it will shock the player" she is doing it because despite the wide range of races already living in Eorzea, none of them look like her (even if you want to continue arguing she looks like a Hyur with horns). She's also a Ninja and her role in the story so far has been to remain hidden, observe our enemies, and not draw attention to herself. It goes without saying that a Dragon Girl, especially when she is the only Dragon Girl, would draw a shit ton of attention to themselves. In short, I don't think it has anything to do with hiding from Ishgard, I am almost certain she had no knowledge of Ishgard before coming to Eorzea, she also makes an appearance at the Snowcloak entrance if I remember correctly and the freaking Templars don't even bat an eye at the scaled tail or horn protrusions from her hood. If she was so worried about Ishgard finding out who or what she was, she would have never set foot in Coerthas. On top of this, there is absolutely no mention of Shiva ever having kids. That is a very VERY important detail that either the Heretics, or Ishgard would have been all over. A race of Dragons who could potentially blend in with your people and slip through your defenses would have been on their #1 to kill list, an with all the information they have already on Saint Shiva it's hard to believe they weren't aware that she apparently gave birth to enough dragonkin to sire an entire race, or that there were dragon orgies going on on the other side. It all becomes incredibly hard to believe. No, I am much more likely to believe that the Au Ra are just another race that existed outside of Eorzea migrating to it now, after all it's pretty much the same thing that happened with literally every other race.

Nope, I already bought a fantasia potion in preparation for changing when the expac comes out. I absolutely love everything about them (appearance wise) so far. I also have a friend who literally bought the game yesterday because I showed her the pics of the Au Ra.

Wanted to thank Erik for putting this together, and thank everyone for coming and making it full of life and great times. I didn't get a chance to RP with as many people as I would have liked due to a bit of RL drama that I had to deal with, but the few people I did get to meet and RP with was a lot of fun.

You can feel however you please as that is not something anyone should allow themselves to get worked up over, but don't expect not to be found unfair for blaming the devs for doing something "wrong"(calling them lazy implies it) and not be called upon by people who find your unfair comments.... well, unfair. After all, it is an arbitrary and direct criticism of the devs taken from 0 known facts about why the chose the design they did... and an indirect criticism towards those who really like how the class turned out. Call it petty if you wish but there is a significant difference between "feeling" something was lazily designed and "declaring" it to be the case. I'd argue that even "feeling" such would be a prejudicially, misplaced concept but this, to me, is really feeling increasingly redundant as something to debate over because, as you said, it's largely irrelevant to the topic at hand. (Again Ashren, I apologise if I am misrepresenting your opinion from earlier). Nope, what you've said so far in this post and the last pretty much sums up the point that I was trying to make. Just because you disagree with a design choice does not make it lazy, lazy implies little work, thought, or effort went into the design, and for those of us who actually enjoy the design calling it lazy instead of just saying you don't like it or you feel it is lazy (as you said there being a difference between feeling and declaring) feels somewhat condescending. I suppose the best term here is "phrasing," it is like going to an art gallery. Person A thinks the art looks amazing and says so. Person B thinks the art is shit and declares that it is shit. Rather than the person who enjoys it feeling there is merely a difference in opinion, they feel like their own opinion is being attacked.

Did we see an in-game model? Or did we only see the concept art.

I seriously could not agree with this statement more.

10/10 would not play this. 10/10 will play the Au Ra we got.

It's not anyone's opinion I am calling bullshit, as I said you're entitled to not like them, but how would you feel if I said I didn't like your character's history compared to mine and that made your story intrinsically lazy? It's an accusatory term, and one not fitting for what I think you (or others) are trying to convey. The race isn't lazily designed, it just doesn't fit your liking. I also personally feel that this whole argument about sexual dimorphism is the stupidest thing I've read in this community since that time someone came on here to accuse everyone who played a Lalafell of being a pedophile because of Momodi's dialogue.

Here is the problem, no matter how much you want to say that the Au Ra are just with horns and scales, they aren't. That is just your own personal bias because you don't like the end result that was released, and that is fine. SE can't please everyone, and not everyone is going to like everything. I personally dislike Roegadyn and would never play one, but I'd also never say that they were lazy design because they're just Hyur with bigger muscles and larger size. If nothing else, it is very obvious that the models for their faces are vastly different from those of the Miqo'te and Hyur (Midlander), and the only difference as far as effort and detail go between the Male and Female are that the Males have scales on their face (which was likely intended to replace or represent facial hair). Sitting here and trying to say that their design is lazy is just plain bullshit, and I have no expectations that you will admit to that so don't bother trying to justify yourself to me. The fact of that is this, the people coming in here to complain about the race are just unhappy that they didn't get what they wanted. If you don't like the race that is entirely your right not to, but don't sit here and try to say that the race is shit or lazy or whatever else just because it doesn't fit what YOU wanted. The race is fine how it is, some will like it, some won't. The same can be said for literally every other race in the game.

It being foreshadowed only makes it even more disappointing. Pretty much this. That SE's laziness was predictable doesn't disqualify dissatisfaction. How does something not suiting your personal tastes = SE being lazy?

I don't understand how anyone who has paid even an ounce of attention to the storyline could have been at all surprised by the size/body type of the Au Ra females. Yugiri has been in the game since, what, 2.1 or 2.2? We all knew she was going to be the new race, so it wasn't like it was a big surprise when it was announced. The only speculation was whether she had ears or horns (which we now know were horns), and just by looking at her you could easily see that her size is roughly between the average Miqo'te Female and the average Midlander Female, making them rather petite and slender in frame. Anyone who expected Roegadyn Females with horns needs to get their head out of their ass and pay more attention, at BEST we would have just got both genders being tiny. I'd much rather have it this way.

Yeah, I thought about that side of it, but generally when it comes to that sort of thing, the counter-argument would be pointing to all the games that buckle down and do that anyway. Which are quite numerous, really. Add into that fact that there are increasing numbers of dev-tools that are capable of reformatting geometry based on character models (yes, those exist), and the technical limitations shrink as well. I think it's more of an aesthetic choice as opposed to a technical design one. No game comes to mind that had beast races that didn't have them from the start. TESO for example had the Khajit and Argonian from the start, EQ same deal, WoW as well. All of these games had the luxury of starting development for armor with the idea that they needed to develop different sets of gear for different body types and what have you. It is a lot different when you take a game where all races use the same exact models and then add in a race that now uses an entirely different model, because you have to then spend extra man hours to redesign old gear sets. While it's likely part of the decision is aesthetics like you said, I think the root of the decision and ultimately the main reason is technology and time required. WoW's Worgen had body structures that were vastly different from anything else that was playable / wore a lot of armor at the time. That definitely counts as something that was added since the start of the game, and a similar argument could be made for the Pandaren. In a similar vein, EQ had the Froglok, which despite existing earlier on, only became playable (and thus required lots of armor to be made and reformatted for them) after a patch later on in the game's life. Although one could still make the argument that these games had the general idea that there might be more beast races, I think that that pre-planning is easily balanced by the fact that a lot of the tools that could be used to smooth the process along did not exist, and everything had to be done manually anyway. While I agree that Worgen are very different body type than the other races in the game, if you go look at any Worgen wearing armor you will notice that WoW pretty much just didn't design armor for the body parts that were different, essentially making it so Worgen never wear visible boots because they don't want to design paw shaped versions, and most of the helmets are just stretched over their head in the same way they do it for the Tauren. Same thing goes for the Draenei.

Have a friend that has been trying to get into Balmung for the last few days and it's never open. Anyone know when is a good time to start checking?

Yeah, I thought about that side of it, but generally when it comes to that sort of thing, the counter-argument would be pointing to all the games that buckle down and do that anyway. Which are quite numerous, really. Add into that fact that there are increasing numbers of dev-tools that are capable of reformatting geometry based on character models (yes, those exist), and the technical limitations shrink as well. I think it's more of an aesthetic choice as opposed to a technical design one. No game comes to mind that had beast races that didn't have them from the start. TESO for example had the Khajit and Argonian from the start, EQ same deal, WoW as well. All of these games had the luxury of starting development for armor with the idea that they needed to develop different sets of gear for different body types and what have you. It is a lot different when you take a game where all races use the same exact models and then add in a race that now uses an entirely different model, because you have to then spend extra man hours to redesign old gear sets. While it's likely part of the decision is aesthetics like you said, I think the root of the decision and ultimately the main reason is technology and time required. Edit: Side note, I've noticed from the artwork and renders that they don't really have any visible ears. I'm wondering how they'll have earrings displayed, like if their have earrings somehow attached to their horns or something.

Doesn't seem like they are going to have facial hair, instead it looks more like they will have facial scales. Edit: Also wanted to point out that SE hasn't released any lore details on them yet, so anything you see or read at this point is entirely speculation and fan theorycrafting. Them being the children of Shiva and Dragons isn't canon yet, and seems a bit farfetched. The only thing they have said is that they are from Ilsabard. While it is possible that they could be the children of Dragons and Shiva (or just the children of Dragons and Hyur perhaps) that were exiled or fled from Eorzea initially, I think it's far more likely they are just another race that exists in another part of the world that come to Eorzea with the rest of the Doma refugees (like Yugiri) to escape the Empire.