Complaint/Rant/Thing: What's with all the aggression lately?

[Cliodhna Eoghan]

Whats a red name mean / do? I wasn't quite sure what it was.

 

it means you kicked in cash to help keep the rpc going or put towards them trying to get new features like a chat box (which in light of the current topic, i'm sure would be even harder to watch over) private teamspeak type chat and some other stuff iirc....i believe there's still a thread in the headlines about it. yep right here :3

[No Longer Exists]

*Peeks out from under his hat*

 

Actually, the red names indicate members that have DONATED to enhance the RPC website because we love it and appreciate it. It is not payment or subscription at all and grants no grandiose privileges. Everything is illustrated in FreelanceWizard's Patreon page about the donation system.

 

 

Cheers!

 

-Black Hat

[ArmachiA]

Red name just means you support the RPC via Patreon. It's in the Headline section on this very forum ;o

 

I don't think reputation is inherently bad, either. It's pretty common on lots of sites now thanks to Reddit. Take away Rep, it's post count. Take away post count, it's join date. The idea that some people may be more important than others is something that will forever be prevalent on forums.

[111]

I think rep points and post counts should go away.

 

There is no benefit to having them, you can always just give someone a PM if you like their post.

 

As much as I like a big number next to my name, I don't think they really add anything positive.

[OttoVann]

Red name just means you support the RPC via Patreon. It's in the Headline section on this very forum ;o

 

I don't think reputation is inherently bad, either. It's pretty common on lots of sites now thanks to Reddit. Take away Rep, it's post count. Take away post count, it's join date. The idea that some people may be more important than others is something that will forever be prevalent on forums.

 

Consider if you remove those three things, was harm done, and was there benefit to be gained? More harm than good, vice versa, etc.

 

If it doesn't hurt, but has upside, why not? Thats all.

[Shizuno]

I'm just going to go ahead and throw my two cents in here, though I suspect my particular view is very much only my own.

 

I also want to preface this by saying I'm not saying anyone is at fault, or that anything is wrong either - just my own experience, and that maybe, as mostly a lurker, myself, it may not just be me that feels this way, but I'm just one of the first to put it to words.

 

I do definitely think people here get ignored. Just go through any thread, and see who gets responded to, quoted, and such. It's even happened several times in this thread, where someone mentions they are used to getting ignored, and then that post just floats away into obscurity.

 

Do I think anyone is at fault? Naw, not at all. It's not unusual for new people in a group to be mostly (or entirely even) ignored, despite others having good intentions. Its just that a friend or acquaintance of theirs said something they feel the need to respond to, and then the other posts get buried. It's an unfortunate and heavily embedded function of the way a forum operates.

 

Now, as for a more personal experience, I can honestly say that I've gotten next to no RP from posting here myself. Its happened occasionally, sure, but my posts tend to fall away and honestly, I don't mind. I don't go out of my way to attract people, I don't bump my posts, etc, so I know I am just as much to blame. However, when I watch my post in the connections forum get upward of 100 views and 2 replies, it's disheartening for sure. That is basically as far as ignoring gets. 

 

However, this isn't me saying I'm hurting for RP. I have regular partners in the game, and get to RP plenty. It's just pointing out that finding RP here isn't as easy as some make it sound, without going out of your way to sell yourself - which tons of people aren't comfortable doing. 

 

BUT! It is worth noting that many people who mostly lurk DO get ignored on the off chance they post - and then after some time they stop coming. I know I did. 

 

And that brings me to the topic at hand. The biggest reason I've stopped coming recently is the lack of actual discussion in the lore threads. I enjoy debates as much as anyone, and reading through some of them have been immensely enjoyable here. But as of late, I have no doubt that the discussions recently just get circular and go no where. It's no longer fun to read, and I learn nothing, with the exception of an occasional post in a thread contributing something, but they get IGNORED because, guess what? They CONTRIBUTED.

 

I don't know. I've become dissillusioned with the RPC recently, and it may just as well be me. But still, this:

 

And that brings me to the topic at hand. The biggest reason I've stopped coming recently is the lack of actual discussion in the lore threads. I enjoy debates as much as anyone, and reading through some of them have been immensely enjoyable here. But as of late, I have no doubt that the discussions recently just get circular and go no where. It's no longer fun to read, and I learn nothing, with the exception of an occasional post in a thread contributing something, but they get IGNORED because, guess what? They CONTRIBUTED.

 

is my main point.

 

Oh, and a quick edit: I don't think the post count or rep system really needs to be changed. It can lead to intimidation on some occasion I'm sure, but as long as those people with high rep and post counts remain friendly, welcoming, polite and fun...it really shouldn't make a lick of difference.

[Flashhelix]

Even if rep counts served NO purpose whatsoever, they shouldn't be removed. Something shouldn't be removed just because it doesn't serve a purpose, only if it has a negative impact, and from what I've seen, the claims that rep somehow has a large enough negative impact to warrant removing it are pretty overblown. I don't mean to barnacle anybody's bricks, but it'd be like me saying that people with better avatars are given all the attention over people without them.

[Kellach Woods]

Really?  Our community is so small that everyone knows everyone else, who is hiding those post counts supposed to fool?

Everyone knows everyone else, really?

 

That I have to question. Same with the assumption that everyone's friends here.

I think most of the regular users know who the other regular uses are and recognize a new person without any reference to a post count, yes :-X

 

I personally think we're barking up the wrong tree when it comes to post count/join date/rep. There's maybe a correlation between these things and being ignored, but there's no real causation, I've found. Many have a lower post count than I, but you can bet dollars to donuts that they'd easily get people to comment/interact/whatever else with their stuff compared to me.

 

And while that's an anecdote, I'd wager there's other such anecdotes out there to that completely blow this theory out of the water. Could probably even dig up another example using the Introduction forum but I don't have it in me to quantify it so I won't, but look at the disparity between received posts to each new person.

 

However, my question was more onto actually knowing each other rather than just saying we'd recognize a new person. Let's be real here - how many people actually know each other here? As in, interact fairly often on the forum and out of forum (in-game suffices)? I'd wager not as much as advertised. I can safely say I don't interact with around... 80% of the most well-known posters here. Could be because their characters don't grip me, our storylines never intertwine, etc. (at least for in-game), could be for any sorts of reason. Arguably, apparently some people avoid me like the plague as I've been told (but to quote gmcfosho - "AND I STILL GO HARD.")

 

I'd go right ahead and say that's a far bigger contributor to why there's been increased hostility around the forums and why people out there are hating on 'em. People just don't know each other, don't make an effort to remedy that either, putting the onus on the other person at all times. New, old, same difference. Someone quantified that the amount of posts in the new people forums has dwindled into essentially recruitment posts and scarcely anything, with the worst of it being in the summer of 2014 (coincidentally, around the time I joined - I remember my own thread having a grand total of 4 posts and 2 of them me). That's a problem we can actually do something about. Actually welcoming new people makes it so that, y'know, they know the forum is not only active but wants to see them around.

 

The biggest hurdle is that this problem is a conscious problem - It's not something you can just say "oh let's hide this, show that, be more strict and all will be fine." It's something that has to be worked on every day by every member of this community and the behavior exhibited recently, and I'd even go as far as to say since I joined, shows that this is nigh-impossible.

 

To finish this long-ass rant with a drama-filled, over-sensitive phrase because I totes can : Instead of "being excellent to one another", we have collectively said "fuck you I got mine".

[Melkire]

I do definitely think people here get ignored. Just go through any thread, and see who gets responded to, quoted, and such. It's even happened several times in this thread, where someone mentions they are used to getting ignored, and then that post just floats away into obscurity.

 

In my opinion, the biggest contributing factor to this problem is that, after a while, a lot of these posts start to sound the same, and when so many people starting sounding the same, it just becomes noise. Noise is easier to filter and tune out than to sift through. Case in point, after posting this I glanced upward to see that Kellach had posted while I was typing my own post out. I glanced through it just now and what I see (being honest here, not offensive) is more of the same "nobody wants to help the little guy find more RP" argument that, to me, has become noise that I have to tune out.

 

Why am I tuning it out? Because I don't have the time to dedicate to helping a bunch of new people out with roleplay. I've got one new contact I picked up recently who I'm helping to ease into the game and into RP, and that's already a stretch in that I have trouble getting to them. Copious free time, I do not have (most of my posting and moderating on the RPC is done from work).

 

It's just pointing out that finding RP here isn't as easy as some make it sound, without going out of your way to sell yourself - which tons of people aren't comfortable doing.

 

Which is perfectly fine! If someone isn't comfortable selling themselves, they shouldn't feel obligated to do so.

 

But expecting to find RP here without selling yourself, the way many of us have had to do, is a little like having your cake and eating it too.

[Flickering Ember]

WoW community forums did not have post counts below the avatar and it did not have a reputation system. (Although nowadays you can like individual posts) There were still forum celebrities and circle jerks.

 

Also can we get a new topic for this specifically?

[Delilah Scythewood]

People having a thin-skin is often not the real problem in my experience. Rather, it's other peoples' lack of ability to acknowledge the reasons why their posts have been perceived negatively, furthered by their lack of consideration to clarify their stance while reinforcing a friendly - or at least neutral - tone in such a message.

 

Sometimes people just seem far too concerned with their own voice and the validity of their own opinions to do anything other than default to placing it far above the reactions, thoughts and feelings - spoken or unspoken - of those whom may read it/it was directed at.

This. Hoolllyyyyyy shit this.

 

Now, personally? I get a lot of shit from my boyfriend and some of my close friends (looking at you Ezhara bb~) for playing devil's advocate too much. I do it for everyone. I try to take a step back and think about how the other person might feel even when I have the third party opinions going "DON'T DO IT. FUCK 'EM. GET OUTTA THERE" because I try to treat others as I would like to be treated. One of these being taking the extra minute or two out of my day to propose how things are for the other person's side given what I know or can inference and try to keep it in mind for my responses and decisions in regards towards/about that individual.

 

I know not everyone does this, and even my usually vigilant efforts fall short at times.

 

But it sometimes seems to be what many lack. Putting their own voice above and beyond anyone elses' and unable to take a moment to acknowledge how it might come across to another and even moreso when it's actually addressed to the individual whether in a PM, over the forum, etc. 'Nope, don't see it, sorry' usually being along the general phrasing that I've witnessed.

 

I've seen it a lot in this community though usually in the game in OOC interactions rather then here on the forums though I have spied it here as well.

 

As a last note, enforcing what others have already said before and myself as well:

 

No need to be an asshole.

 

We're all people behind the screen.

 

In relation to the above: If you wouldn't speak to someone a certain way in a face-to-face conversation, why do it on a forum and be surprised if it's not taken well?

[ArmachiA]

To finish this long-ass rant with a drama-filled, over-sensitive phrase because I totes can : Instead of "being excellent to one another", we have collectively said "fuck you I got mine".

 

But expecting to find RP here without selling yourself, the way many of us have had to do, is a little like having your cake and eating it too.

 

I actually agree with both these statements, as contradictory as that may be.

[Iex]

So... I don't think this thread is anywhere near it was started as, though it is quite frankly the most amazing example I have seen of what the thread was about.

 

(This post ignores the attitude issue that may be present.)

 

Though....

 

Honestly, I always thought the purpose of the RPC was to provide an out of game resource for Roleplaying in the game of FFXIV as well as a place for folks to discuss concepts RP thoughts and matters such as that.

 

A tool to establish contacts for RP and help folks with similar interests in RPing connect. I did not think it was supposed to be a place where you build your friendships. I would say media such as Skype, IN game, or other messenger services help you get to know people better because if there is confusion of behavior it can be corrected immediately.

 

I do not believe the RPC is supposed to be telling folks what they can or cannot do with their friends in any matter. It is a neutral ground where things can be discussed (a marketplace if you will.) and not a guiding hand.

 

Friendships do not happen magically. For some socially active people it is easy, and for others it is quite perilous. However, expecting friendship to find you is always going to fail.

 

The same is true with RPing. As a Quicksandite I see generally... 5-20 people normally just STANDING THERE without a single line of RP waiting to be approached, even with "walk up welcome." Some of them naturally are erp alts and some of them are waiting for someone they know.

 

Waiting will get you no where.

 

(What does this have to do with RPC)

 

I direct your attention to the event forums. If you are not the type to be good at walk ups, I suggest you GO TO EVERY EVENT YOU CAN. The clique everyone seems to be talking about isn't what folks thinks.

 

It is the clique of being proactive in RP and demonstrating to folks you are eager to RP. Folks will respond to someone wanting to RP if they have seen it isn't going to be a one sided affair.

 

Why don't you see a bunch of the people on the RPC in the Quicksand or outside of events? Because they have a big circle of friends who they RP with, but they attend events which give them a chance to meet new people. People have limited time, and people are within their right to RP with the folks they want to.

 

That being said a bigger presence in game from proactive RPing and attending of public events tends to reflect on folks actually knowing who you are and more likely to be social with you in game and on the forum.

 

It won't be instant.

It won't be quick.

And you may never get the attention of the group you first were aiming for.

 

But... you will end up getting nestled into your own little place that is comfortable and you enjoy yourself.

 

Being proactive on your in fixing 'problems' rather than trying to find things causing them to blame seems to me to be the better route.

[Kellach Woods]

To finish this long-ass rant with a drama-filled, over-sensitive phrase because I totes can : Instead of "being excellent to one another", we have collectively said "fuck you I got mine".

 

But expecting to find RP here without selling yourself, the way many of us have had to do, is a little like having your cake and eating it too.

 

I actually agree with both these statements, as contradictory as that may be.

 

I don't view them as contradictory - They're both sides of the same coin.

 

Melkire is saying new people need to try, I'm saying old people need to try.

[OttoVann]

I told myself I wasn't going to post here anymore, however:

 

 

The same is true with RPing. As a Quicksandite I see generally... 5-20 people normally just STANDING THERE without a single line of RP waiting to be approached, even with "walk up welcome." Some of them naturally are erp alts and some of them are waiting for someone they know.

 

 

Some people who stand around don't have rp/erp intent of any kind and are instead idling to read the rp. To me thats boring and I wont do it, but out of those 20 idlers, 10 are looking for erp hooks, 7 are waiting for someone, hoping for an approach, and 3 are just idling to read everything else and won't rp / do not rp.

 

Ive got a lot of those people in my LS, it happens. Weird but they're happy so w/e.

[Kage]

In relation to the above: If you wouldn't speak to someone a certain way in a face-to-face conversation, why do it on a forum and be surprised if it's not taken well?

To be honest, a lot of people say this or things along this line... But it's quite possible most people actually would and do say the same things to other peoples' faces.

 

^ I don't think Iex and I have -ever- really spoken on the RPC (I think I was completely surprised when I finally read a post from him). But random hugs after seeing each other over and over and over in the same places has given me more cause to actually pursue? or get motivated to meet him in RP..

 

Re: Why I might ignore a post? It may just be the same thing others have said. I'm not the type to quote a bunch of the same posts just to say I agree with them. I'm more likely to respond if there's something that really grabs my interest or i have something to say to it. It's possible that goes for others too.

[Kellach Woods]

 

I glanced through it just now and what I see (being honest here, not offensive) is more of the same "nobody wants to help the little guy find more RP" argument that, to me, has become noise that I have to tune out. 

 

Why am I tuning it out? Because I don't have the time to dedicate to helping a bunch of new people out with roleplay. I've got one new contact I picked up recently who I'm helping to ease into the game and into RP, and that's already a stretch in that I have trouble getting to them. Copious free time, I do not have (most of my posting and moderating on the RPC is done from work).

 

 

Lemme tl;dr my post then :

- Post Count/Rep/Join Date don't seem to be causing problems or at least nothing that can be easily quantified.

- What seems to be causing problems is that nobody gives a shit about one another.

- Maybe if we tried giving a shit about one another the atmosphere would be more positive.

[Iex]

I told myself I wasn't going to post here anymore, however:

 

 

The same is true with RPing. As a Quicksandite I see generally... 5-20 people normally just STANDING THERE without a single line of RP waiting to be approached, even with "walk up welcome." Some of them naturally are erp alts and some of them are waiting for someone they know.

 

 

Some people who stand around don't have rp/erp intent of any kind and are instead idling to read the rp.  To me thats boring and I wont do it, but out of those 20 idlers, 10 are looking for erp hooks, 7 are waiting for someone, hoping for an approach, and 3 are just idling to read everything else and won't rp / do not rp.

 

Ive got a lot of those people in my LS, it happens.  Weird but they're happy so w/e.

 

I... am not sure what you mean by that.

 

You just restated what I said. I don't think the people who are reading things and happy about that are the ones feeling slighted by folks not being social/rping with them.

[OttoVann]

I told myself I wasn't going to post here anymore, however:

 

 

The same is true with RPing. As a Quicksandite I see generally... 5-20 people normally just STANDING THERE without a single line of RP waiting to be approached, even with "walk up welcome." Some of them naturally are erp alts and some of them are waiting for someone they know.

 

 

Some people who stand around don't have rp/erp intent of any kind and are instead idling to read the rp.  To me thats boring and I wont do it, but out of those 20 idlers, 10 are looking for erp hooks, 7 are waiting for someone, hoping for an approach, and 3 are just idling to read everything else and won't rp / do not rp.

 

Ive got a lot of those people in my LS, it happens.  Weird but they're happy so w/e.

 

I... am not sure what you mean by that.

 

You just restated what I said. I don't think the people who are reading things and happy about that are the ones feeling slighted by folks not being social/rping with them.

 

I was saying there's a third type of Quicksand person who just stands around. Not everyone is hoping for approach for whatever they want.

[Delilah Scythewood]

In relation to the above: If you wouldn't speak to someone a certain way in a face-to-face conversation, why do it on a forum and be surprised if it's not taken well?

To be honest, a lot of people say this or things along this line... But it's quite possible most people actually would and do say the same things to other peoples' faces.

 

^ I don't think Iex and I have -ever- really spoken on the RPC (I think I was completely surprised when I finally read a post from him). But random hugs after seeing each other over and over and over in the same places has given me more cause to actually pursue? or get motivated to meet him in RP..

 

Re: Why I might ignore a post? It may just be the same thing others have said. I'm not the type to quote a bunch of the same posts just to say I agree with them. I'm more likely to respond if there's something that really grabs my interest or i have something to say to it. It's possible that goes for others too.

I'll quote if it's something I agree with or to directly respond to it and I try to add more substance if I can

 

And yeah. I'm sure some do. But I've also seen quite a few who don't and then get huffy when they see others don't care much for it.

[No Longer Exists]

I will no longer be participating in this discussion. Not because I am ignoring the issue, but because I am disappointed with the bend it has now taken.

 

I am ashamed of some of the people who have posted in these last few pages. Honestly ashamed, as an RPer, as a member of this community, and as a human being. You've taken it too far.

 

There is a line between radicalism and pushing your viewpoint on other people. This thread, in my opinion, has escalated so quickly to that level with posts that repeat the exact same mantra, over and over again ad nauseum and it has begun to feel less like constructive criticism and a call to action but more like picketing until we get what we want.

 

Earlier today, I put a thread in "Making Connections" with a silly name that had nothing to do with the topic INTENTIONALLY to see what would happen and if anyone was actually looking. I promised that anyone who posted there would be responded to within 24 hours and RP would happen. The individuals who have been lobbying for "newbie interaction" made no attempt to post in it nor (I would guess) did they look. I received nearly 10 responses from other members of the community though and we've made plans to get together to RP.

 

My Rep is currently 25ish, not very high. My post count is also not very high. My RP attempt in Town Hall was largely observed but ignored. 

 

I FEEL that certain individuals in this thread should be ashamed of themselves.

 

That is all.

[Dravus]

I've never been a huge fan of the whole idea of 'thick skin/thin skin'. In my experience it usually ends up going down a rather unpleasant path. On one hand you have overly sensitive individuals who push for every perceived slight against them to be punished severely which can lead to excessive censorship and on the other hand you have people who expect others to 'toughen up' so that they can essentially continue acting like jerks.

 

So something more in the middle is ideal but I think for the most part we're already there - we just need less people kicking up a fuss/making it personal whenever they perceive that there's somebody out to get them.

 

Personally speaking I have no issue with anybody on this site. I post in these threads because I enjoy a good debate and I like to help improve things through dialogue. I'm also not a very subtle person and so I tend raise awareness of potential issues that others may not feel comfortable bringing up.

 

Now I'm not so naive as to believe that there's absolutely no bad blood between specific individuals on this site. I don't think I've ever been in a role-playing community that didn't have rivalries at play beneath the surface ranging form the mild to the extreme.

 

I do, however, appreciate it when people take their concerns to PM to try and discuss things outside of the public eye (which risks others fanning the flames of an already sensitive conversation) so my appreciation goes out to those who have done that!

[Melkire]

Lemme tl;dr my post then :

- Post Count/Rep/Join Date don't seem to be causing problems or at least nothing that can be easily quantified.

- What seems to be causing problems is that nobody gives a shit about one another.

- Maybe if we tried giving a shit about one another the atmosphere would be more positive.

 

Thank you for tl;dr, it helps a lot (no sarcasm, I'm being sincere; tone is difficult on the internet). If I might be a bit forward, I'd like to ask: who doesn't care about who?

 

I can tell you that (relatively) new folks who are vocal are heard (EDIT: even if not acted upon, "heard" is different than "addressed"). You and Graeham, for example, are two folks who immediately spring to mind, folks that don't feel like they're being fairly treated. I can only speak for myself, but what I can say is this:

 

I've seen Graeham all of once in-game, and it was while I was bunnyhopping around Revenant's Toll looking at my gear trying to decide what I wanted to upgrade. He was at the Mail Moogle or something. I don't think I've ever seen you, Kellach, in-game. If you've ever been in my vicinity, I must've missed you due to some distraction. As someone who seems to be on when you folks aren't, or else is busy when you folks are on, is there something more I should be doing? Should I have sent Graeham a /tell going, "would you like to RP sometime?" Should I have sent you a PM here asking the same? I've mentioned before that I don't really have the time to spare, but if it's really on me, I'd like to know.

 

And if it isn't on me, who is it on? Is it on Warren, who I only ever usually see roleplaying during the Grindstone, and during those times he's really busy officiating and managing a few dozen different conversations at once? Is it on FreelanceWizard (who, by the by, I have never roleplayed with despite wishing to, with the exception of a single passing during a Gus Pumpkinweed event), who perhaps might be on when you two are also on but when I'm not? Is it on Sounsyy, whose schedule and availability I'm not even remotely familiar with? Is it on Random Free Company Member #473?

 

The claim that many a roleplayer has or may have adopted the "screw you I got mine" attitude might have some basis to it, but I'm really curious to know who is expected to address this concern when the folks who claim to care don't have the time and the folks who claim to have the time don't care.

 

EDIT:

 

And then there are folks like Black Hat. :<

[Dravus]

I actually role-play fairly frequently but I can understand why it may be difficult for people to stumble across my character naturally. Aside from me being in a completely different time-zone to many members of this community I tend to prefer to head out into the wider game world and avoid lingering in the Quicksand or attending busy events simply because my personal preference is more towards interacting with one or two individuals at a time.

 

Another issue I've found is that I'll spy someone who has an intriguing character, get in touch with them and then either time-zones prove to be an issue, they don't get back to me or they end up defaulting to the Quicksand/houses as their 'go to' area for role-play.

 

Now obviously nobody is obligated to interact with anybody else but I do think it'd be pretty sweet if we saw more role-play seeping outside of the usual haunts. My character doesn't particularly like Ul'dah but I have him travel there from time to time because it's a great way to try and network. At the moment I've got a pretty intriguing plot going with a friend that took Graeham to Coerthas for the first time in his life - which has proven to be pretty fun!

[Kellach Woods]

(snip)

 

I just wanted to tag you because that's not what I'm talking about hence the snipping.

 

I'm just talking about the forums, where snark rules supreme and outright hostility is tolerated (though IIRC all the mods chimed in to say that'll change which is good!) when I say "people just don't give a shit about one another". I'm still tackling the issue brought up in that the forums have grown more hostile lately and that's not good for anyone, new, old or fish.

 

The new/old thing was used as an example - The reason I mention my own examples is because they're the examples I know and am familiar with even though they're not really relevant because I feel like I need to preface the fact that I GET RP GUISE every single time I make a post.