Liberal police state

[Dogberry]

This is not just a website, it's a community, right? Of real people who often invest real time and real emotion into said community.

 

I can't apologize for calling out those in charge of the community for their decisions. Accountability is part of responsibility, right?

 

I myself am not comfortable with the idea that I have to 'watch what I post' here. This place belongs to everyone.

 

Yes, this is why we're so frustrated that you brought real world politics here in a discussion that does need to happen, but in a even-keeled and level-headed way. There is no need for such hyperbolic rhetoric. Responsibility goes both ways, and this is something you need to take responsibility for. Your title was intentionally divisive. Your insistence on making this a for reals political issue is a problem. You've compared us unfavorably to tumblr, but you're the one crying actual oppression.

 

It's not that serious.

 

That said, there is a problem. And problems have scale. Overzealous moderation is not the god damn Khmer Rouge.

[Sailor July]

This is not just a website, it's a community, right? Of real people who often invest real time and real emotion into said community.

 

I can't apologize for calling out those in charge of the community for their decisions. Accountability is part of responsibility, right?

 

I myself am not comfortable with the idea that I have to 'watch what I post' here. This place belongs to everyone.

 

It's totally important to call out those in charge of a community when you feel their decisions are incorrect.  But, there's a difference between calling them out and insulting/baiting them.  One is productive, the other triggers an immediate defensive response.

 

I think you're right to speak up, but I do think you should change the title of the thread.  Just my $0.02.

 

I agree with Liadan. Like I said a moment ago, there's a big difference between mature discussion and jumping to something as serious as a police state (and or baiting). I mentioned a petition for this reason. That way, the community can rally to change something if they feel it's incorrect.

 

Note: I will admit that I definitely have been in communities with a rules that I felt were too strict. But I still followed them. Eventually, they did change.

[Brynhilde]

I sent someone a PM earlier today asking them to maybe just add a sentence or two to their post so it was more than just a GIF. I got a response that made me feel like I was being accused of stealing candy from a baby.

 

I hope you're not referring to our conversation there, Osric. I'll admit that I was upset by the 'Pre-warning Notice' I was given after posting the .gif in the thread I made earlier, but I made sure to put my points across in a reasonable manner.

 

All of that said,

 

1. This isn't a democracy. This is a privately-run website that accepts donations as public contributions to otherwise private funding. If FreelanceWizard decided tomorrow to close this website down, it'd be gone. No, that's not happening (it's sad that I have to clarify this, otherwise some folks would jump to erroneous conclusions, but there you go).

 

To this I would say; who is the website being run for? On a theoretical level, if everyone decided to up and leave right now, what would be the point of it? The RPC isn't a personal project, it's a community.

[Verad]

This is not just a website, it's a community, right? Of real people who often invest real time and real emotion into said community.

 

I can't apologize for calling out those in charge of the community for their decisions. Accountability is part of responsibility, right?

 

I myself am not comfortable with the idea that I have to 'watch what I post' here. This place belongs to everyone.

 

As a member of this community, what on earth makes you think you're speaking for me?

[Melkire]

There's no ban on them.

I think what people are experiencing here is a gap between the rules and the enforcement of the rules.

 

There's no ban on them. 

 

While I don't agree with how this thread was started, and feel the title is prone to baiting, I have to say that the impression I've gotten is that they're absolutely banned.  When images appear (to me) to be "on-topic," they still get warnings.  So the impression I've gotten is no images, because you never know if you're going to get warned or not.

 

I'll provide an example with this post, then.

 

 

^^^ This is not okay. ^^^

 

 

Admittedly, this image comes off as dismissive and inconsiderate, but bear with me for a moment.

 

I feel that what a lot of folks are overlooking here is intent. If you've something of substance to contribute to the discussion, and it's not dismissive or derogatory in a vein that will result in drama, inevitable thread moderation, and thread locking, then you can post it, along with whatever images or videos or such that you like, and expect not to receive a formal warning for it.

 

Now, if you receive a PM to bring the matter to your attention and perhaps even discuss it with you, all without receiving a formal warning, that's one thing. That's workable. I don't consider that heavy-handed. It's opening a dialogue.

 

I don't consider the case the OP brought up heavy-handed either, though there might exist a need for an open dialogue, perhaps a thread, wherein users and staff can communicate. Users ask for clarification and/or make suggestions, staff respond and update as need arises. That would be a constructive thread, one worth having, something positive that isn't... this thread. Hence "overreacting". This site is a forum and a resource for roleplaying. I don't think claiming the sky is falling when it isn't constitutes an appropriate response.

 

Now, might it be alright if I lock this thread and immediately open a new one in the vein of the aforementioned Clarification thread for folks to discuss the rules by asking questions/making suggestions? Or would folks rather this thread not be locked and discussion allowed to continue in a matter that I, personally, think won't amount to much more?

 

^^^ This is okay. ^^^

[Goodfellow]

All of that said,

 

1. This isn't a democracy. This is a privately-run website that accepts donations as public contributions to otherwise private funding. If FreelanceWizard decided tomorrow to close this website down, it'd be gone. No, that's not happening (it's sad that I have to clarify this, otherwise some folks would jump to erroneous conclusions, but there you go).

 

Not exactly how I was going to word it, but close.  Whatever your political inclinations, be you a libertarian, neo-conservative, liberal, theocrat, anarchist, communist, fascist, monarchist, etc., etc. ad infinitum, this is not a social/governmental issue.  The government is not infringing on your right to post memes just as the government is not infringing on this website's right to set its own house rules.

 

Being incediary and/or bringing personal politics into is also not going to help anyone make their case because it is not a political issue and trying to make it one comes across as something of a desperate defense and a little lacking in discernment.

 

I stay out of these threads as a rule, as my history will attest, but people have been making some mighty high mountains out of molehills lately and it's starting to get under my skin.

[Hammersmith]

 

I can't apologize for calling out those in charge of the community for their decisions. Accountability is part of responsibility, right?

 

I myself am not comfortable with the idea that I have to 'watch what I post' here. This place belongs to everyone.

 

Also this is a flat "I want free reign to do whatever I want on other people's time and resources regardless of their interest" which infringes on the purpose and place of a private community with a given purpose.

 

It's incredibly arrogant and self centered.

 

You probably need to reexamine why you're here in the first place.

[Kage]

I personally am quite happy that I don't have to deal with gifs meme orimages that are not contributive of a topic. I made a post on tumblr to this effect before the policy reclarification that a few number had responded, saying that before the policy change many wanted to leave, myself included. It included many other posts where people said "yah I avoided RPC for these and such reasons"

 

I have not seen a similar sentiment since the policy reclarification but I could be wrong.

[Brynhilde]

I personally am quite happy that I don't have to deal with gifs meme orimages that are not contributive of a topic. I made a post on tumblr to this effect before the policy reclarification that a few number had responded, saying that before the policy change many wanted to leave, myself included. It included many other posts where people said "yah I avoided RPC for these and such reasons"

 

I have not seen a similar sentiment since the policy reclarification but I could be wrong.

 

I know people who have left the RPC permanently because of the general air of hostility which is permitted to linger, and not because of .gif use. Among these people and including myself, the 'anti-image-and-no-text -post' rule is seen as a treatment for the symptoms and not the disease.

[Melkire]

I sent someone a PM earlier today asking them to maybe just add a sentence or two to their post so it was more than just a GIF. I got a response that made me feel like I was being accused of stealing candy from a baby.

 

I hope you're not referring to our conversation there, Osric. I'll admit that I was upset by the 'Pre-warning Notice' I was given after posting the .gif in the thread I made earlier, but I made sure to put my points across in a reasonable manner.

You did, and I was thankful for that. It was a dialogue, and that dialogue was important enough that I shrugged off that initial feeling, forwarded your response as requested, and came back to ask what I felt was an important question. Your edit made me a little, though, since there was no need to remove the GIF.

 

Apologies if I offended in any way.

 

All of that said,

 

1. This isn't a democracy. This is a privately-run website that accepts donations as public contributions to otherwise private funding. If FreelanceWizard decided tomorrow to close this website down, it'd be gone. No, that's not happening (it's sad that I have to clarify this, otherwise some folks would jump to erroneous conclusions, but there you go).

 

To this I would say; who is the website being run for? On a theoretical level, if everyone decided to up and leave right now, what would be the point of it? The RPC isn't a personal project, it's a community.

 

I was calling attention to the fact that comparisons to real world politics are inherently flawed. Dogberry beat me to that point since I was taking so long to post (posting from the work place can be so slow at times; writing in bursts, blargh).

[Dogberry]

Osric, you still have not addressed that every time a macro has been posted in a non-meme thread, but was relevant to the material in the thread, a warning has been issued. It is this kind of moderating that frustrates me, because these posts are not against the rules, yet warnings are being issued. Of course, you may be interpreting the rules different from me. Maybe there needs to be a bit more oversight here.

 

In heated threads, this kind of moderation is valuable, and I thank you for the work you do there. In small, non-dramatic threads, this kind of moderation comes across as boredom and an eager adherence to a possibly poorly worded rule.

 

That said, I really worry any locking of this thread could be interpreted as mods sweeping a problem under the rug. This isn't the thread for this topic we want, but this is the thread for the topic we have.

[Kage]

I personally am quite happy that I don't have to deal with gifs meme orimages that are not contributive of a topic. I made a post on tumblr to this effect before the policy reclarification that a few number had responded, saying that before the policy change many wanted to leave, myself included. It included many other posts where people said "yah I avoided RPC for these and such reasons"

 

I have not seen a similar sentiment since the policy reclarification but I could be wrong.

 

I know people who have left the RPC permanently because of the general air of hostility which is permitted to linger, and not because of .gif use. Among these people and including myself, the 'anti-image-and-no-text -post' rule is seen as a treatment for the symptoms and not the disease.

I was posting on my cell phone so I apologize if you misunderstood, but the images were not the sole reason for the feeling of hostility but what were contributing to (but not limited to) what I saw as toxic behavior.

 

Edit: I'm still waiting for osric's meme post to be warned in the roast thread > :3

[Mercer]

This is not just a website, it's a community, right? Of real people who often invest real time and real emotion into said community.

 

I can't apologize for calling out those in charge of the community for their decisions. Accountability is part of responsibility, right?

 

I myself am not comfortable with the idea that I have to 'watch what I post' here. This place belongs to everyone.

 

Maybe I've forgotten what this site is intended for. Oh, that's right, the RP-C is a website that was privately founded to foster the growth of roleplay in a dying game. It was used to survive the year of downtime and support the growth of new RPers joining the coalition.

 

The goal of the website is to foster positive RP growth in the game. It's not a website used to bash other people, trash on lore, trash on how people play nor is it a place that is supposed to harbor negativity. Yet that is what it has been becoming thanks to people that prefer to dig in their heels on their views and bash other people on how they play.

 

This isn't a place where people do whatever they want, it has a focused goal for the community. A goal that has been necessary for RP to survive through the growing pains this game has gone through.

 

People need to get off their high horses and remember that this is supposed to be a team of players working together to enjoy the game.

[Kellach Woods]

I know people who have left the RPC permanently because of the general air of hostility which is permitted to linger, and not because of .gif use. Among these people and including myself, the 'anti-image-and-no-text -post' rule is seen as a treatment for the symptoms and not the disease.

 

It's far easier to be a dismissive asshole who has no consideration for others' enjoyment of the community in .gif form than in text form. Mostly because typing takes time, and requires thought, and thought has this sneaky little way of actually thinking about what you're typing.

 

An image? Click on image, drop the link, hit the post button, collect snark. Takes 5 seconds.

 

All of the rules are essentially a codified version, with consequences, of checking yourself before you wreck yourself.

[Melkire]

Osric, you still have not addressed that every time a macro has been posted in a non-meme thread, but was relevant to the material in the thread, a warning has been issued.

 

This is not the case.

 

http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=11586&pid=182218#pid182218

 

http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=11670&pid=183814#pid183814

 

Two recent examples.

 

 

It is this kind of moderating that frustrates me, because these posts are not against the rules, yet warnings are being issued. Of course, you may be interpreting the rules different from me. Maybe there needs to be a bit more oversight here.

 

In heated threads, this kind of moderation is valuable, and I thank you for the work you do there. In small, non-dramatic threads, this kind of moderation comes across as boredom and an eager adherence to a possibly poorly worded rule.

 

That said, I really worry any locking of this thread could be interpreted as mods sweeping a problem under the rug. This isn't the thread for this topic we want, but this is the thread for the topic we have.

 

Which is why I just suggested (and I think it was missed because people are posting so fast and/or skimming the discussion) that perhaps a thread for "Questions, Clarifications, and Suggestions Re: Rules" is called for.

 

If the rule is poorly warded and action has been taken on account of it, then we'll take feedback, adjust, and keep moving forward. Apologies if the case that seems to be bothering you went down a road I never intended (which is precisely WHY I PM'd Bryn as I did, didn't make a mod note, didn't edit, didn't issue a warning... just opened a dialogue).

[Flashhelix]

The goal of the website is to foster positive RP growth in the game. It's not a website used to bash other people, trash on lore, trash on how people play nor is it a place that is supposed to harbor negativity. Yet that is what it has been becoming thanks to people that prefer to dig in their heels on their views and bash other people on how they play.

 

Really? I was under the impression it was the place to make endless "Wah wah everybody's a toxic asshole I hate this place roleplay apocalypse incoming wah wah" posts day after day with no real rhyme or reason.

[Brynhilde]

I sent someone a PM earlier today asking them to maybe just add a sentence or two to their post so it was more than just a GIF. I got a response that made me feel like I was being accused of stealing candy from a baby.

 

I hope you're not referring to our conversation there, Osric. I'll admit that I was upset by the 'Pre-warning Notice' I was given after posting the .gif in the thread I made earlier, but I made sure to put my points across in a reasonable manner.

You did, and I was thankful for that. It was a dialogue, and that dialogue was important enough that I shrugged off that initial feeling, forwarded your response as requested, and came back to ask what I felt was an important question. Your edit made me a little, though, since there was no need to remove the GIF.

 

 

I felt like I had to, though. As I said to you and as I stated in my (admittedly pissy - sorry) edit; the .gif summed up my thoughts in a way that I felt didn't need text accompaniment. Since any text would have been redundant and in a gesture of good will, I opted instead to remove the .gif I was given an informal warning for.

 

I was aware of the forum rules, but made the mistake of taking them by their intention instead of their literal words. I assumed that as:

 

1. The image post was entirely well-meaning, and in an obvious way,

2. It was obviously posted in a well-meaning thread, which was a conversation among friends,

3. It was directly relevant to a previous post,

4. It was entirely SFW, and,

5. It was in my own thread,

 

It would be okay to post.

 

I understand the concern that liberal use of memes, gifs, etc, can be easily abused by trolls. But if and when this occurs, punish the trolls. Why should forum users having friendly, respectful conversation be penalized by a rule because of what a troll might do in the absence of that rule?

[Melkire]

I felt like I had to, though. As I said to you and as I stated in my (admittedly pissy - sorry) edit; the .gif summed up my thoughts in a way that I felt didn't need text accompaniment. Since any text would have been redundant and in a gesture of good will, I opted instead to remove the .gif I was given an informal warning for.

 

I was aware of the forum rules, but made the mistake of taking them by their intention instead of their literal words. I assumed that as:

 

1. The image post was entirely well-meaning, and in an obvious way,

2. It was obviously posted in a well-meaning thread, which was a conversation among friends,

3. It was directly relevant to a previous post,

4. It was entirely SFW, and,

5. It was in my own thread,

 

It would be okay to post.

 

I understand the concern that liberal use of memes, gifs, etc, can be easily abused by trolls. But if and when this occurs, punish the trolls. Why should forum users having friendly, respectful conversation be penalized by a rule because of what a troll might do in the absence of that rule?

 

Supposed "double standards," mostly.

 

We'll revise the rule. Staff are already suggesting and discussing edits anyway, as mentioned earlier in this thread.

[Dogberry]

It's far easier to be a dismissive asshole who has no consideration for others' enjoyment of the community in .gif form than in text form.

 

That sounds like a challenge! I accept!

 

All kidding aside, I would say that's what they are in theory, but what I think the problem here is with the interpretation of the law by certain moderators rather than the law itself. What seems fine to many might seem over the line for one mod, but the mod's interpretation will win out. Just as the mob should not be in charge, those in charge are not infallible, either.

[Unnamed Mercenary]

It's far easier to be a dismissive asshole who has no consideration for others' enjoyment of the community in .gif form than in text form.

 

That sounds like a challenge! I accept!

 

All kidding aside, I would say that's what they are in theory, but what I think the problem here is with the interpretation of the law by certain moderators rather than the law itself. What seems fine to many might seem over the line for one mod, but the mod's interpretation will win out. Just as the mob should not be in charge, those in charge are not infallible, either.

 

Doesn't someone still usually have to report a post for the mods to actually look at it?

[Dogberry]

Osric, you still have not addressed that every time a macro has been posted in a non-meme thread, but was relevant to the material in the thread, a warning has been issued.

 

This is not the case.

 

http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=11586&pid=182218#pid182218

 

http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=11670&pid=183814#pid183814

 

Two recent examples.

 

 

Both of those cases had text to go with them. So what you're saying is, you can not just post a macro. It must have text? What if there's simply nothing else to say? Who are you to determine the depths to what our posts must contain? Each post must contain x amount of discussion or be off topic? Sometimes a well placed macro just sums up all you have to say. If it's not meant to hurt someone or be disruptive, why is that against the rules?

[Dogberry]

It's far easier to be a dismissive asshole who has no consideration for others' enjoyment of the community in .gif form than in text form.

 

That sounds like a challenge! I accept!

 

All kidding aside, I would say that's what they are in theory, but what I think the problem here is with the interpretation of the law by certain moderators rather than the law itself. What seems fine to many might seem over the line for one mod, but the mod's interpretation will win out. Just as the mob should not be in charge, those in charge are not infallible, either.

 

Doesn't someone still usually have to report a post for the mods to actually look at it?

 

I wouldn't imagine if the mod just happens to see it in the course of reading/posting in that thread.

[Melkire]

Osric, you still have not addressed that every time a macro has been posted in a non-meme thread, but was relevant to the material in the thread, a warning has been issued.

 

This is not the case.

 

http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=11586&pid=182218#pid182218

 

http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=11670&pid=183814#pid183814

 

Two recent examples.

 

 

Both of those cases had text to go with them. So what you're saying is, you can not just post a macro. It must have text? What if there's simply nothing else to say? Who are you to determine the depths to what our posts must contain? Each post must contain x amount of discussion or be off topic? Sometimes a well placed macro just sums up all you have to say.

 

It clearly shouldn't be, so we'll rewrite the rule(s) in question.

 

If it's not meant to hurt someone or be disruptive, why is that against the rules?

 

All kidding aside, I would say that's what they are in theory, but what I think the problem here is with the interpretation of the law by certain moderators rather than the law itself. What seems fine to many might seem over the line for one mod, but the mod's interpretation will win out. Just as the mob should not be in charge, those in charge are not infallible, either.

 

I didn't issue a warning. I made that judgment call.

 

Am I being taken to task for being lenient and not issuing a warning for a post that clearly didn't deserve one? Or is the issue in the language I employed in my PM title / PM content? I'd like to know. I'm still leaning towards "overreaction" if it's the former.

[Dogberry]

Osric, you still have not addressed that every time a macro has been posted in a non-meme thread, but was relevant to the material in the thread, a warning has been issued.

 

This is not the case.

 

http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=11586&pid=182218#pid182218

 

http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=11670&pid=183814#pid183814

 

Two recent examples.

 

 

Both of those cases had text to go with them. So what you're saying is, you can not just post a macro. It must have text? What if there's simply nothing else to say? Who are you to determine the depths to what our posts must contain? Each post must contain x amount of discussion or be off topic? Sometimes a well placed macro just sums up all you have to say.

 

It clearly shouldn't be, so we'll rewrite the rule(s) in question.

 

If it's not meant to hurt someone or be disruptive, why is that against the rules?

 

All kidding aside, I would say that's what they are in theory, but what I think the problem here is with the interpretation of the law by certain moderators rather than the law itself. What seems fine to many might seem over the line for one mod, but the mod's interpretation will win out. Just as the mob should not be in charge, those in charge are not infallible, either.

 

I didn't issue a warning. I made that judgment call.

 

Am I being taken to task for being lenient and not issuing a warning for a post that clearly didn't deserve one? Or is the issue in the language I employed in my PM title / PM content? I'd like to know. I'm still leaning towards "overreaction" if it's the former.

 

I'm taking you to task for making it an issue at all. You could have just said nothing and not disrupted the thread. You didn't. I take issue with that.

[111]

It's far easier to be a dismissive asshole who has no consideration for others' enjoyment of the community in .gif form than in text form.

 

That sounds like a challenge! I accept!

 

All kidding aside, I would say that's what they are in theory, but what I think the problem here is with the interpretation of the law by certain moderators rather than the law itself. What seems fine to many might seem over the line for one mod, but the mod's interpretation will win out. Just as the mob should not be in charge, those in charge are not infallible, either.

 

Perhaps we could just have the forum/topic determine if Macros are allowed? Maybe the OP can decide?

 

Again, I wouldn't care about the warnings, if it didn't mean each one put you 10% closer to a permaban. Posting one off topic image macro a month will get you banned permanently, just seems silly.

 

Especially because /every/ image macro/gif has basically been considered off topic.