How are people going to deal with firearms? Thread mostly aimed at the melee people

[Gegenji]

I don't think comparing flintlock pistols to what machinists will be getting and saying cobalt wins out is a good argument based off of the ARM quest.  If a recall it was a chain piece as well.

 

I guess I'm looking at this from a crafters standpoint and not an adventurers standpoint

 

I'm not saying cobalt will win out. I am merely stating that there are materials already existent that could be, as has been alluded to earlier, a kind of equivalent to Kevlar. Either on its own, or bolstered by the melding of materia to it. And, as such, can serve at least somewhat as a defense against arms fire.

[Kellach Woods]

then I don't think there'd be anything stopping Garlemald from just running roughshod over Eorzea. In a lot of ways, Eorzean magic could be seen as a counter or equivalent to Garlemald's firearms, but there has to be some reason why people bother taking swordsmen/pikemen/whatever into battle instead of just a bunch of mages.

 

Because Garlemald itself is using a bunch of swordsmen/pikemen/whatever.

 

The rank and file don't have firearms, this is backed by both cutscenes and in-game. Surely there's something to their tech that makes it so its exclusive only to the top brass.

[OttoVann]

I don't think comparing flintlock pistols to what machinists will be getting and saying cobalt wins out is a good argument based off of the ARM quest.  If a recall it was a chain piece as well.

 

I guess I'm looking at this from a crafters standpoint and not an adventurers standpoint

 

I'm not saying cobalt will win out. I am merely stating that there are materials already existent that could be, as has been alluded to earlier, a kind of equivalent to Kevlar. Either on its own, or bolstered by the melding of materia to it. And, as such, can serve at least somewhat as a defense against arms fire.

 

But which kind? Do your breastplates stand up as well to Virara slashing at them with knives compared to me slamming on them with a Great Axe?

 

This is my point. Not everyone runs around with flintlock pistols. Some will run around with machinist arms that are a Great Axe equivalent compared to a Flintlock pistols Knife.

 

I dont really know if there is a right or wrong answer to any of this, just speaking aloud from the crafters side of things.

 

And you know, speaking of melding materia or aether-modifying armor, refer to this post I made. I've had Otto on that sort of subject for a while. http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=11359&pid=184119#pid184119

 

It might have answers for crafters to made armor that can stand up to the Great Axe firearms we will be seeing coming.

[TheLastCandle]

Personally, with my mini-Machinist, I don't plan on roleplaying his gun being much more effective than an aetherically charged arrow. It's a compensation for the fact that he's not capable of using aether.

[Zelmanov]

Using the Futures Perfect cutscene, you can see that most of the time the traveling bullets are visible. This is quite impossible in the real world, even old timey flintlocks managed to fire at velocities much faster than the human eye could see.

 

Given that we can see these bullets, one may argue lower velocities, velocities that could be dodged for the more combat inclined.

 

I do believe, especially when it comes to the MCN of Eorzea, a majority of the power of them comes from a combination of tech and Aetherial hand waving. They might punch hard, but their visual representation shows them to be quite slow.

 

Then of course you have Merlwyb against the Sahagin and her bullets are like those light gun games.

 

 

In the end, if your character couldn't off set an arrow, guns are no more dangerous because everything to your character may as well be classified "deadly". If your character is someone who is in the line of fire anyways and is rocking hard armor, ala Dragoon, or a tank class or some ironworks gear, just remember that BLUNT FORCE TRAUMA is still a thing. Even people wearing kevlar still get stunned/knocked on their asses when hit. 

 

actually, even if you are in typical leather rogue gear, just use aether as justification for shrugging off a hit. We live in a universe that full on ACKNOWLEDGES that armor possesses enhancing attributes to make one stronger, smarter, more dexterous. Armor in this world doesn't just increase your vitality and defense, which would be the best in game indicators of having tougher armor, but increases everything and they worked it into the canon. So maybe you got some good gear.

 

Also, rule of cool, any person who chooses a gun to get a one hit kill button in RP is not someone will be fun to play with anyway. A good RP'er gets his ass handed to him as often as he dishes it out if his goal is to pick fights with other players.

 

 

And yes I acknowledge that as one of the "Too cool for school" jobs I kinda get a free out anyway with jumps, jumps don't always work with a 6 foot ceiling >_>

[OttoVann]

Personally, with my mini-Machinist, I don't plan on roleplaying his gun being much more effective than an aetherically charged arrow. It's a compensation for the fact that he's not capable of using aether.

 

Isn't that the point of a gun though? Levels any and all playing fields? Lack of aether would be why you go to them right?

[TheLastCandle]

Personally, with my mini-Machinist, I don't plan on roleplaying his gun being much more effective than an aetherically charged arrow. It's a compensation for the fact that he's not capable of using aether.

 

Isn't that the point of a gun though? Levels any and all playing fields? Lack of aether would be why you go to them right?

 

This is exactly what I'm saying.

[OttoVann]

Oh right I misread it.

[Seriphyn]

http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Gilded_Magitek_Armor_Mount

 

Magic > magitek

 

That might help.

[Gone.]

I'm just going to dodge everything like the Matrix~

 

Serious answer: avoiding unnecessary firefights usually helps. Both of my ladies are healers, anyway; I'm pretty sure bullets are going to have a hard time getting through a solid aetherical wall of protect, stoneskin and adloquium.

[Lilia Lia]

Can you all do me a solid and start using spoiler tags when you reference story stuff?  I haven't finished the ARM plot yet.

[Chris Ganale]

Using the Futures Perfect cutscene, you can see that most of the time the traveling bullets are visible. This is quite impossible in the real world, even old timey flintlocks managed to fire at velocities much faster than the human eye could see.

 

Given that we can see these bullets, one may argue lower velocities, velocities that could be dodged for the more combat inclined.

 

I do believe, especially when it comes to the MCN of Eorzea, a majority of the power of them comes from a combination of tech and Aetherial hand waving. They might punch hard, but their visual representation shows them to be quite slow.

 

Then of course you have Merlwyb against the Sahagin and her bullets are like those light gun games.

 

Consider that Gaius' wrist-mounted firearm seemed to fire an energy projectile, which, as Star Wars and Fallout have shown us, are typically slowed down way below the velocity they should be at for the benefit of the audience. His gunblade fired proper steel projectiles, which weren't visible except as tracers until they were explicitly shown to us in bullet time. The Admiral's guns also fire real steel.

[OttoVann]

Using the Futures Perfect cutscene, you can see that most of the time the traveling bullets are visible. This is quite impossible in the real world, even old timey flintlocks managed to fire at velocities much faster than the human eye could see.

 

Given that we can see these bullets, one may argue lower velocities, velocities that could be dodged for the more combat inclined.

 

I do believe, especially when it comes to the MCN of Eorzea, a majority of the power of them comes from a combination of tech and Aetherial hand waving. They might punch hard, but their visual representation shows them to be quite slow.

 

Then of course you have Merlwyb against the Sahagin and her bullets are like those light gun games.

 

Consider that Gaius' wrist-mounted firearm seemed to fire an energy projectile, which, as Star Wars and Fallout have shown us, are typically slowed down way below the velocity they should be at for the benefit of the audience. His gunblade fired proper steel projectiles, which weren't visible except as tracers until they were explicitly shown to us in bullet time. The Admiral's guns also fire real steel.

 

Do we know if their bullets are steel or lead?

[Chris Ganale]

I used 'real steel' as a colorful descriptor, I've no actual idea.

[Aaron]

Dodge the bullets if my roll is higher.

 

They do it in the OP of the game.

 

If it's freeform and not rolls. You could plausibly say every final fantasy character has the potential to be a bullet timer really. 

 

It's the only reason the Garleans did lol no rape the Calamity war (Mind you which Eorzea was gonna lose regardless)

[cuideag]

Getting shot is what the cool kids do, right? .... Right?

 

I imagine Jajara, as a craftsman with some pride in her work, will end up working on upping her armorsmith game. It won't do to have her friends getting shot to bits what with all those crazy machinists and their crazy machines running around.

 

Probably won't be making any, though. World's bad enough as is without giving more people more ways to slaughter each other.

[Gegenji]

Gegenji Armor - It stops boolets dead.

[111]

I will make an effort post later. However real life plate armors are /very/ effective against musketballs. So I think in ffxiv they would be equally effective.

[OttoVann]

I will make an effort post later. However real life plate armors are /very/ effective against musketballs. So I think in ffxiv they would be equally effective.

 

*rubs hands together excitedly*

 

*slicks back hair*

[111]

So the actual definition of the expression bulletproof, comes from a medieval and older tradition of testing weapons on finished pieces of armor. So a master armorsmith might strap his finished creation to a dummy, and then have his assistants hit it with the various weapons it was supposed to defend against.

 

Arrows, halberds, swords, axes and the like. This would damage the armor slightly, but it also give it a reputation for quality, since you could see it actually worked. This was called a proof. Much like a scientific proof.

 

When firearms became more popular, the same thing was done with them. They would be shot with a contemporary firearm (usually a pistol) and the mark would be left to show that the armor could indeed defend the wearer from such a shot. This mark was called the bullet 'proof'.

 

 

 

So armor of the day could certainly stop firearms. The general rule for plate is:

 

1) It will always stop ricochets and shrapnel

2) It will always deflect glancing hits

3) It will stop pistols at any range

4) It will stop muskets/rifles at long range

[ShoggMommy]

Then of course you have Merlwyb against the Sahagin and her bullets are like those light gun games.

 

Pretty much this and what Zelmanov has posted, afterall it's not like technically they don't have pistols in Eorzea currently. Just a vast majority don't have them.

 

 

This as an aside, concerning my melee characters, I only have one who will be my DRK. I'd imagine with their possibility of aether shields and what not that could be one way. But I don't know and probably won't know until the DRK are released and I know how they're going to play. Second I'd assume because machinist is going to be using pistols, that they aren't extremely accurate at long range.

 

Edit: I'm also considering that bullets will be black-powder, which makes them even more inaccurate. However! I won't know that either till machinist comes out. It could be entirely aetheric. Unless I've misread something as I haven't personally read too much up on machinists.

[K'nahli]

There's also the matter of whether or not machinists will even be commonplace lore-wise. It might just be an opportunity for the WoL to take up the class without the actual circumstance of gunmen becoming even slightly more widespread in Eorzea.

 

Having said that, I guess that matters little if many people have already decided to roleplay it.

[ShoggMommy]

There's also the matter of whether or not machinists will even be commonplace lore-wise. It might just be an opportunity for the WoL to take up the class without the actual circumstance of gunmen becoming even slightly more widespread in Eorzea.

 

Having said that, I guess that matters little if many people have already decided to roleplay it.

 

I'd like to think that SE learned from the other classes, I remember reading something along the lines that they realized that pigeon-holing the classes as they did made it difficult. But as you said we won't know in any case till release.

 

Even then though it could still be plausible if the player character was able to piece together magitek to an extent, afterall Admiral does have her pistols. Though we won't know until the release.

[V'aleera]

One shot or a few: run/jump/dodge.

 

Incoming hail of fire: spin weapon really fast and block them all animu style.

[OttoVann]

This was my assumption about machinist guns. That they are cartridge based firearms. Not blackpower musketball firing things.

 

They look like them too, to be honest. and it would only make sense due to their ability to fire more than once in a while.

 

If the firearms are cartridge based, you could...sort of reasonably assume they would have rifled barrels. Maybe its a given, hard to say.

 

If thats the case, cartridges + rifling, you are looking at pretty pointed and lethal ammunition that is very accurate.

 

Thats mostly where my dilemma stems from of looking at armor and being like...mmmm don't think it'll hold. Anything shaped like a modern rifle round, even a wadcutter, with good lead or steel cored is going to be drilling holes in a lot of stuff. I also acknowledge that rounded breastplates that are "heavy" in their armor nature should absorb a few shots - but that armor would be "heavy" in nature and nowhere near light to be sure. If it were just steel. Maybe we will find wonder-alloys (very possible if not already doable now if your character is a skilled material specialist with metals and alloys) that will be light enough to alloy some serious mobility while fighting armored. Armor strong enough to get shot and not just be useless.

 

A few other things to consider, the RP gets more interesting if people ever look into armor-piercing styles ala steel bullets or tungsten/wolfram.

 

With all that said if every gun is just shooting balls, then most armor should take most hits from most firearms.