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How important is OOC achievement when playing a powerful character ICly?


How important is OOC level/Achievement?  

108 members have voted

  1. 1. How important is OOC level/Achievement?

    • Not important at all.
      60
    • Somewhat important.
      40
    • Very important.
      8


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What If we take combat out of it?

 

Claire is a master chef icly,  but oocly I am only lvl 15 CUL. I often go to great lengths describing her actions in the kitchen. Should I cease to do so because a game mechanic shows she shouldn't be able to cook?

 

Yeah, it always seems to be matters of physical or arcane power that cause these issues. Not many people are demanding credentials of the best bartender of Eorzea or a super-successful Weaver. Or even the various nobles that are running around. These all have a level of power of their own - especially the nobles - that can't really be abstracted into the mechanics of the game (beyond having lots of gil and a fully furnished mansion, maybe?).

 

And I guess that's where the issue lies. If the level 5 Pugilist claims he can suplex Titan, you're obviously going to give that less credit than the level 60 Monk who claims the same. Yet, I still find the issue is in the statement itself - "I can suplex Titan" - and not the level of the person saying it.

 

Why can he suplex Titan? Years of specialized training gradually suplexing larger and larger things over the years until he reached his level of mastery? An innate strength borne from an outside source? Or just because the player wants their dude to be blindly accepted as being super strong or symbolize the fact they leveled the class to 60?

 

If your character is physically or magically powerful - in an RP sense - then I just want a solid explanation as to why. And hopefully portrayed well. Someone saying "I can suplex Titan" without giving any reason as to why or how falls flat for me, whether level 5 or 55.

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Why can he suplex Titan Train? Years of specialized training gradually suplexing larger and larger things over the years until he reached his level of mastery? An innate strength borne from an outside source? Or just because the player wants their dude to be blindly accepted as being super strong or symbolize the fact they leveled the class to 60?

 

If your character is physically or magically powerful - in an RP sense - then I just want a solid explanation as to why. And hopefully portrayed well. Someone saying "I can suplex Titan Train" without giving any reason as to why or how falls flat for me, whether level 5 or 55.

 

At some point you're going to have to address the suplex question.  It's a legit question, with this being Final Fantasy.  It's not the first time this question has been posed.

 

The only answer is: 

tumblr_n5b0hfYf6n1sippq6o3_500.gif

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I tend to disconnect gameplay capability from RP capability for a few reasons:

 

1.) I've met some pretty awesome storytellers that are kinda shit at the game they're RPing in, due to lack of time or skill.

2.) For people who aren't bad at the game and have the time, getting to max level is pretty easy, leading to swarms of supermen characters.

3.) Some people (like me) actually prefer to play underpowered characters, whose abilities are

going to be far lower than what the gameplay suggests.

4.) If you're playing a one-shot villain for a story, you probably don't want to invest the time required to level them.

5.) People will use gameplay to make story developments trivial. Example: Why didn't they use a phoenix down on Aeris?

 

There's more, I think, but my brain is failing me, and I have to leave for work soon.

 

Now, I do like some rules when it comes to combat RP. I just think those rules should be separated from the game play due to the above-mentioned things. Unfortunately, coming up with a set of rules everyone will agree on and use can be a bit of a challenge.

 

And that's my 2 gil.

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For me personally?  Very important.  However, that's because I like to RP the content.  If you want Lilia to craft an item for you, she'll do it IC and she'll be very happy to, and you'll see that many of her items are of very high quality, but there's still much that she has to learn.  Because I RP a few of my character classes like this, if other people are playing their classes I'd expect them to be able to put their money where their mouth is also.  Level 50 is a good baseline for crafting in my opinion.  The lingo I use in my RP circle is "guild certified" to refer to people who are level 50 in a craft. 

 

I'd also see this being important for people who want to do IC dungeons.  Some of the people in my RP circle like to do some of the content IC and in those situations it's important for people's actual character level to be on par with whatever they're claiming is their actual level of skill.

 

That having been said, if we're RPing in a world where there's a 1:1 correspondence between skill level IC and OOC, then Lilia is a much more skilled character than I play her as being.  IC she knows enough ACN to have served in the Flames but not much past that.  A world where IC classes are the same as OOC makes for a very low skill ceiling in the lore universe.

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Why can he suplex Titan Train? Years of specialized training gradually suplexing larger and larger things over the years until he reached his level of mastery? An innate strength borne from an outside source? Or just because the player wants their dude to be blindly accepted as being super strong or symbolize the fact they leveled the class to 60?

 

If your character is physically or magically powerful - in an RP sense - then I just want a solid explanation as to why. And hopefully portrayed well. Someone saying "I can suplex Titan" without giving any reason as to why or how falls flat for me, whether level 5 or 55.

 

At some point you're going to have to address the suplex question.  It's a legit question, with this being Final Fantasy.  It's not the first time this question has been posed.

 

The only answer is: 

tumblr_n5b0hfYf6n1sippq6o3_500.gif

 

It should be noted that "being Sabin" is a pretty damn good reason.

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Think I voiced my opinion on this a while back for a similar topic. I believe there should be a separation of OOC level from IC skill. ICly I play a 32 year old Ala Mhigan who has been a sword fighter for almost twenty years. She's been a Coliseum Gladiator, Resistance fighter, then later Knight of the Baracuda in Limsa. OOCly, however, I only have a 26 GLA on Balmung. Why? Because my main PVE character is on Hyperion. She's 50 all classes, 60 WAR, final coil beat, and super high achievement rating. But I also work full time and generally don't have the desire to try to repeat all that work on another character just to have my RP "taken seriously."

 

The problem with the level approach is that I could feasibly push Souns to be a lv50-60 GLA on Balmung, which might illustrate her having IC experience, but another RPer who is also 60 PLD could be RPing a sixteen year old master swordsman with no backstory and because of level the two characters would be on equal footing per level. Which, to me, makes no sense. Backstory and/or RP should dictate the skill level of a character, not what class/level they are.

 

Souns won 4 Grindstones. That rp gave her IC reputation for being fairly badass. I don't consider my character to be super strong, fantastical, or warrior of light status. She's just a good soldier. And my personal hope is that no one would look down on my alt or my rp, which I've put a lot of thought into, just because I'm too busy to level her to cap. If you feel its unfair to face my low level, you can always pair off against my dreadwyrm fighter and see how your item level 80 sixteen year old fairs there?

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In my opinion, roleplaying in an MMO is at its most enjoyable as a creative interactive storytelling activity. OOC achievement is as irrelevant as all other OOC things. Out of character. Not applicable.

 

For me, the mechanics of the -game- in which you roleplay should be kept completely separate from the stories we weave. The mechanics and rules of the game are set so that you may enjoy the particular experience the Developers have set out for you.

 

That's not what we're doing when we roleplay. We seek a different experience. We're enjoying a different activity, a game of interactive storytelling. In this game, the only rules we need take into account are the rules that bind the world in which we're telling our stories. The lore.

 

My character does not see a blue plate above your head with your name nor can he poke you and know everything you've ever learned. That is ridiculous. All that my characters will ever react to is how your character looks, smells, sounds, and feels as you present it to me in your emotes.

 

Your imagination should not be limited by how much time you can put forth into the game. For me, as others have said, I will only quirk a brow at lowbies because they imply two things, a lack of lore knowledge and a lack of commitment to the game and so I'm hesitant to engage and roleplay. Otherwise, if I know the person is a good storyteller, and is telling me their level ten thaumaturge is a bearer of the Ancient Wazasu staff and secrets of the Kupaganaga peoples, I will roleplay accordingly, and if conflict ever develops in the story we're weaving, then I will emote according to the power of the character I've created. His own background, experiences, and training. Together we will tell a cool story, and have a good time being creative. Game mechanics be damned.

 

I don't rp that all rogues must have two daggers, nor do I rp that a person versed in Thaumaturgy finds it physically impossible to pick up a gladiator's shield, nor do I rp that a person must hold their weapon at their side, nor that all women must ride sidesaddle.

 

These are game mechanics, and they should never come in the way of your storytelling.

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I'm of the opinion that someone roleplaying a character who has certain skills that more or less borrow from the aesthetic of a class/job and its mechanics has an obligation to at least be familiar and knowledgeable about what said class/job is capable of.

 

Take the difference between pugilists and monks, for instance. There are certain things a pugilist can and cannot do, and the distinction between them and monks is an important one.

 

A pugilist is more or less a martial fighter trained to understand and utilize their body to inflict harm upon other bodies. They're not known for particularly superhuman feats (save Hamon Holyfist, but come on now, it's Hamon Holyfist), which is to say you wouldn't expect them to break rock with their fists, or cross long distances in the blink of an eye, or any other such dazzling displays.

 

You would, however, expect them of monks, and that's largely due to the lore behind them. Furthermore, I'd expect someone playing MNK at level 60 to have a better understanding of what such a character ought to be capable of than, say, a level 25 pugilist who can't even access Greased Lightning III to see how stupendously quick/fast/swift a monk can be. That's tied up in "OoC achievement" : if you've played pugilist up through the level 30 quests, if you've unlocked monk, and if you've played monk up until 50 (or 60 now), then you know what you're talking about when you write for such a character.

 

This won't always matter (generic swordsman characters can more or less ignore GLA/PLD lore and mechanics without detriment) but OoC knowledge, familiarity, and skill do contribute, in my eyes, to how seriously I take someone's character and that character's actions, and to how my character reacts to those. In a way, it comes back to the question of how lore-compliant folks want to be, and how lore compliant they expect their RP partners to be. I, for instance, am not someone to sit there and accept a pugilist throwing a punch through the air that someone translates into a gust of wind that stikes my monk from several malms away. In the first place, Air Render is from an entirely different Final Fantasy title altogether, and just because the lore there supported it doesn't mean that the lore in XIV does. Secondly, according to XIV lore, monks aren't even capable of that... so why should I accept that a pugilist is?

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I think it's important for a role-player to be able to show rather than tell when it comes to their character. All too often I see a situation where someone claims that their character is a seasoned soldier only for their level to be so low that they can't actually go out into the game world without dying in a couple of hits.

 

I also think it's important for a role-player to do as much of the game's content as possible to soak up the lore. Again, all too often I see people doing their own thing and remaining ignorant to what, exactly, is plausible within Eorzea and what isn't.

 

That's not to say that people should be expected to clear T12 before they role-play a skilled adventurer but I don't think it's unfair to expect role-players to take some aspects of the game's mechanics/content into consideration when developing a character.

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That's a bit unreasonably inflexible. In FFXIV a mnk can fires shock waves and laser beans from their fists, and you find a relatively common Asian fantasy motif, "air pressure" strikes impossible to believe? I'd been intending to keep my rp somewhat low power and even now I'm being pushed this way. And what of other monastic orders? Does ever superhuman fist fighter have to be Fist of Rhalgr? I'd find that boring and hard to reconcile with the lore regardless.

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That's a bit unreasonably inflexible. In FFXIV a mnk can fires shock waves and laser beans from their fists, and you find a relatively common Asian fantasy motif, "air pressure" strikes impossible to believe? I'd been intending to keep my rp somewhat low power and even now I'm being pushed this way. And what of other monastic orders? Does ever superhuman fist fighter have to be Fist of Rhalgr? I'd find that boring and hard to reconcile with the lore regardless.

Haha yea. My Au Ra monk belonged to a Doman temple with its own tenets and skills. 

 

I feel there's a bit of a rift between those who create their own content, and those who only adhere to what they can see. Neither side is inherently wrong or right, but to go too far in either direction kind've precludes you from larger community rp.

 

Flexibility within reason,  is basically what um trying to say.

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Here's another thing:

 

Getting tied up in identities that are rooted in game mechanics.

 

Yes, the guilds have root in lore.  The mystic ones more than the martial, to some degree, since only really the Gladiator's guild which feeds the bloodsands in Uldah has any kind of serious sway/

 

But really none of this requires you to assume that because someone has an axe they define themselves as a Marauder (Hammer is not a maurader, but carries a large axe because it's a practical tool for a giant person in an anime world.  Can't cut a gate down with a sword, as he says.)

 

Hammer's a siege smith and retired soldier, with a side serving of extreme malevolence.  No marauder involved in the char, at all.  He can, and does, brawl, but if you tossed a sword, a spear, or anything else into his lap, he'd probably try to kill you with it.  He's just old and has handled most weapons enough that he can try to murder you with it better than any greenhorn would. Hell, he's gone to the grindstone with a The Stick/lead filled shillelagh for most of his time there.  That doesn't even exist in game.

 

Hammer's defined by what he actions he takes, what foul worded game he talks, and whatever motherfucker is unlucky enough to start getting hit by whatever motherfucker he has in hand after those two fail.

 

Not by a class name or guild.

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I think it's at least important to level a char somewhere. There are things about classes that are not obvious at first. For example from 50-60 Paladins change from 'Royal Guard' to 'Holy Knight', and if someone never progressed far in the game, they'd never get sense of that.

 

 

 

I don't really view it as a requirement, as others have said I'll still treat people generally the same, however I think it helps your RP.

 

Though I tend to put less effort into RP's with low level characters, since I've seen so many just fade away and never log back on. If someone is in full raid gear, they've already sunk so much time into this game they'll probably stick around

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That's a bit unreasonably inflexible. In FFXIV a mnk can fires shock waves and laser beans from their fists, and you find a relatively common Asian fantasy motif, "air pressure" strikes impossible to believe? I'd been intending to keep my rp somewhat low power and even now I'm being pushed this way. And what of other monastic orders? Does ever superhuman fist fighter have to be Fist of Rhalgr? I'd find that boring and hard to reconcile with the lore regardless.

 

From an aesthetic standpoint while observing the mechanics, most offensive PGL/MNK skills require bodily contact with either the target or the ground. The only exceptions that come to mind are Arm of the Destroyer, Mantra (not offensive anyway), and Elixir Field, the latter of which, yes, looks like a laser beam.

 

As someone who prefers to remain as lore-compliant as possible, I tend to avoid characters who roleplay pugilists shooting laser beams or such. Is the character a skilled monk who's invested months if not years of training into the discipline and come away with the knowledge and skill to do such? Then by all means. If not? Then my character is going to believe that there's more to it, and is going to want to know how the other character is capable of such.

 

Please keep in mind that this is merely my opinion and my preference. Doesn't affect anyone but me and those who interact with my characters. Does this come off as inflexible? Maybe, but that would be a pretty extreme interpretation of my stance on such things, I feel.

 

As always: people should feel free to roleplay what they want to roleplay, and to find like-minded folks who will roleplay alongside them. That doesn't mean everyone's views will line up, nor should it.

 

/shrugs

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I'm of the unpopular opinion that I think in-game achievement has some bearing on your characters strength. It's just difficult to bump into a total stranger with a level five character with godlike strength!!!!11 and be okay with them beating my level 50+ decently geared character into the ground. There are plenty of exceptions, of course, like if someone can give me a good reason why their level five character is so much stronger than mine, or if they just legitimately outsmart/outdo my character, if it was an alt made for a storyline I'm participating in, etc.

 

That's not to say I apply it as a rule or anything, though (and it's probably really not much of an issue since most of my characters aren't instigators or eager for a brawl, and I almost never do combat RP). It's just that if some freshly-made character suddenly shows up and starts throwing punches at my character for no reason, I'm not going to take it very seriously, though there are other factors that play into that, such as suspicion that such a character may just be an alt someone made for the purposes of drama or harassment.

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It is terribly wrong to claim that you have an advantage on someone JUST because of your in-game level.  It hinders the roleplay possibilities for low-level characters. Your level doesn't have anything to do with your roleplay, other than glamour/ weapon varieties.

 

This shouldn't even be a topic to discuss.

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It is terribly wrong to claim that you have an advantage on someone JUST because of your in-game level.  It hinders the roleplay possibilities for low-level characters. Your level doesn't have anything to do with your roleplay, other than glamour/ weapon varieties.

 

This shouldn't even be a topic to discuss.

 

People are allowed to have opinions, yo.

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It is terribly wrong to claim that you have an advantage on someone JUST because of your in-game level.  It hinders the roleplay possibilities for low-level characters. Your level doesn't have anything to do with your roleplay, other than glamour/ weapon varieties.

 

This shouldn't even be a topic to discuss.

 

People are allowed to have opinions, yo.

 

 

Said what I had to say :/

 

Under any roleplay scene that isn't considered as ''casual'', OOC achievements doesn't have anything to do with your IC power. Doesn't matter if that guy is level1, or level50

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That's a bit unreasonably inflexible. In FFXIV a mnk can fires shock waves and laser beans from their fists, and you find a relatively common Asian fantasy motif, "air pressure" strikes impossible to believe? I'd been intending to keep my rp somewhat low power and even now I'm being pushed this way. And what of other monastic orders? Does ever superhuman fist fighter have to be Fist of Rhalgr? I'd find that boring and hard to reconcile with the lore regardless.

 

From an aesthetic standpoint while observing the mechanics, most PGL/MNK skills require bodily contact with either the target or the ground. The only exceptions that come to mind are Arm of the Destroyer, Mantra, and Elixir Field, the latter of which, yes, looks like a laser beam.

 

As someone who prefers to remain as lore-compliant as possible, I tend to avoid characters who roleplay pugilists shooting laser beams or such. Is the character a skilled monk who's invested months if not years of training into the discipline and come away with the knowledge and skill to do such? Then by all means. If not? Then my character is going to believe that there's more to it, and is going to want to know how the other character is capable of such.

 

Please keep in mind that this is merely my opinion and my preference. Doesn't affect anyone but me and those who interact with my characters. Does this come off as inflexible? Maybe, but that would be a pretty extreme interpretation of my stance on such things, I feel.

 

As always: people should feel free to roleplay what they want to roleplay, and to find like-minded folks who will roleplay alongside them. That doesn't mean everyone's views will line up, nor should it.

 

/shrugs

I'm not going to argue what a monk should or shouldn't be capable of, only that In my experience, it generally ends up the smarter choice to be open than closed. I think straining to believe a character's IC capabilities because they're unsupported by game mechanics is similar to arguing a particular dish of food cannot be innovated in setting regardless of whether the ingredients exist because a culinarian can't cook it. If the superhuman tools are there, a plausible explanation can be made, and rather than getting defensive about it, I think it's more productive to create realistic awe or disbelief of this rare and uncanny skill. There's more to be done with that than simply ignoring it. Of course, I do advocate the grittier, euroboo style of rp and know it doesn't mix with more blatantly wuxia/animesque play. I just figure I'd say it because more or less while I don't think there's anything wrong with choosing rp carefully, I'm particularly sensitive to differing levels of realism between players as I've been kind of shunted into a higher level of power narrative wise than is previously intended, and I dislike thinking payers in similar situations will have their choices limited by inflexible rpers. As for the ic and ooc character ability, I still put "very important on account of feeling rpers miss out on lore and valuable props in the form of gear and skills .

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I'm, personally, of the mindset that OOC achievement =/= IC capability. Does it help with immersion to be level capped and decked out in shiny, character-appropriate gear? Absolutely. Is it necessary in order to demonstrate your character is competent in what they say they do? No. For me, that's all about the other player's portrayal of the character and whether or not it convinces me of their knowledge and experience. 

 

I've encountered a plethora of "highly skilled ______" who I've rolled my eyes at in the past, but it was never because of what I saw when my cursor hovered over their character-- it was because of poor writing, shoddy character development, and usually a clear impression that they weren't writing a powerful character for a good reason, but were just doing so for the power trip. Frankly, I've rolled my eyes at just about as many level-capped characters for this reason as I have low-level characters.

 

That said, I've actually seen some fairly nasty behavior from both sides of this argument-- as much from the "Well, I won't take you seriously unless you're level capped" camp as from the "I'm level 25 and playing a 40+ old war veteran with boatloads of experience" side. I've seen level-capped characters break the laws of lore and existence, bordering on godmodding behavior, in games while fighting lower level characters. I've seen level capped characters pick fights with low-level characters only to refuse to partake in IC combat unless the in game duel mechanics were used. Why? Because they were a higher level and/or better geared and were, apparently, out to prove something.

 

If you can substantiate your character's IC achievements with OOC mechanics, then that's awesome. When I see someone who's obviously very progressed into a game, who has clearly put a lot of blood, sweat and tears into achieving what they have, I am absolutely impressed and, on an OOC level, I'm probably bowing down to them at my keyboard. But not everyone has that kind of time to devote to games. Some people play these games exclusively for RP and thus either only level in order to supplement that RP, or don't level much at all. Heck, there have been games in the past for me where I never hit level cap at all but played the thing for years. Why? Because I wound up hating the game mechanics themselves but found myself pulled into the RP scene enough that I stuck around just for that. I just don't find it fair to tell people who may have limited time or even capability that they have not earned the right to play an experienced character, despite whatever storytelling capabilities they might bring to the table.

 

In the end though, if someone's trying to lord their "all-powerfulness" over another character -- be it imaginary or substantiated in mechanics--- their game progression or level is irrelevant, if you ask me. Someone who's issuing OOC threats regarding their character's "particular set of skills" (~ Liam Neeson) or are trying to shoehorn their alleged badassery into RP will be just as obnoxious at level 60 as they would be at level 5.

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It is terribly wrong to claim that you have an advantage on someone JUST because of your in-game level.  It hinders the roleplay possibilities for low-level characters. Your level doesn't have anything to do with your roleplay, other than glamour/ weapon varieties.

 

This shouldn't even be a topic to discuss.

 

People are allowed to have opinions, yo.

 

 

Said what I had to say :/

 

Under any roleplay scene that isn't considered as ''casual'',  OOC achievements doesn't have anything to do with your IC power.  Doesn't matter if that guy is level1,  or level50

 

I disagree. Aside from allowing a character to travel to more locations and not die in a single hit a character that has been taken at least partially through the leveling experience brings with it a sense of investment. I struggle to connect to characters that are very low level, consider themselves to be super powerful and then can't really back it up in any way, shape or form.

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I have a preference of it's a major perk to me if the player is able to bring their character up to the height their described as. 

 

It is blending to a point, but it also goes with my Rule of Investment, where it's wrong of me to invest time into someone who isn't going to do the same. Typically having a player with a character at level shows they've made the effort and aren't a splash in the pan. A lot of guilds I've seen in WoW as well as here have minimum level requirements for main characters just for that fact.

 

There's also the sad part that the world is built to level and whatnot in. Being lower level limits some of the things that can be done. They have to stick to cities or have an escort to areas, they cannot contribute to dungeon RP even as a different class/job, the items they can acquire or use are also limited. Obviously things can be tweaked and everyone can accommodate, but it can become a huge distraction and take up time meant to role play.

 

If it an alt, there's more leeway in my mind. If the character is meant to be a placeholder for a NPC or is a villain disposable character again its an alt and someone I know is worth the effort.

 

But otherwise I am of the camp that the player has to show the investment for me to really dedicate the time to have my character see theirs as a peer or more. It doesn't have to be exact class-to-class, but overall commitment shows a lot.

 

There's other perks to people who are leveling up to that point of role play and building connections:

- A veteran could be wounded and recovering and needs to "re-train".

- A new path of life calls for a new sojourn of discovery.

 

That's a bit off topic, but it's a means I enjoy where I can invest OOCly and ICly to building a great character.

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I personally treat everything to do with the game itself as OOC. It has no bearing on my character. Val's a 60 NIN, but he is by no means an expert nor will he be for quite some time. The gear I have and the levels he has will have no bearing on power. To me, OOC achievement means absolutely nothing in RP. You managed to get a group of people to run a dungeon with you. That's great, but what does that even mean when it comes to the character? Nothing, aside from having a different set of clothing options.

 

I will say that I can't quite help to look at lower level characters as inferior--it's just a thing of mine, I guess, but if the person shows themselves to be a decent and capable RPer then I'll simply roll with the punches provided they aren't absolutely outrageous and is willing to discuss things.

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I find IC age and career time to be a major factor in determining a character's skills.

 

Like, I'm fine if you want to be this young, beautiful wizard lady, but I don't care how talented you are, I will not accept your character to be stronger than my old grumpy sorcerer who has been practicing the dark arts for twice the years she has.

 

For physical classes I suppose it can be a double edged sword. Sure, the old veteran is more skilled and expert, but a young ruthless fighter will have stamina and vigor on his side. Magic class is definitely about mental skills though, and as such the older should make you the better mage of the two (provided that you have been studying magic for most of your life, or anyways more years than the younger mage has). That's like standard protocol in all fantasy stuff.

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