How important is OOC achievement when playing a powerful character ICly?

[Thorgar]

am I the odd duck out?  I actually run my raids In character and do just fine (admittedly on the games im not new at lol).  My wife and i are used to RPing during quests, raids, dungeons, or even out farming.  We are no slouches when it comes to playing pve either, she was the top raid healer for her everquest 2 server for years, and i was ranked #3 tank on city of heroes virtue server for more than a year.

 

I have always seen RP as being in character while you play the character not stopping and pretending to move places while all talking in a circle.  I run pathfinder games on Saturdays for that lol.

 

Am i just misunderstanding the RP talk? (the terms do seem to change everytime i turn around... yay getting old lol)

[Naunet]

Go back and read the stuff I wrote in posts you didn't respond to and you'll see what I'm trying to say laid out more clearly.

I have been, and I don't really see how its any different from how I categorized it.  You'e worried about the look, and kit of characters representing their role correctly.  I really think its entirely unnecessary (which is why I said what I did about a level 1 in starter clothes RPing as if in fancy noble attire). 

 

Maybe its just because I am a pen-and-paper and forum RPer at heart.  I feel that the avatar should be, at most, a visual-aid for RP when appropriate, but that its the text that is canonical, important, and interesting for RP.  If the avatar is useless as a visual aid, I really don't mind, I am more than willing to go along with it, if I'm enjoying the RP.

 

To me, the avatar is a tool, not a limitation.  I see far more possibility for fun that way, and wouldn't have it any other way.  I know you at least understand that, since you're willing to RP classes that simply don't exist.  So I can't fully understand why you apply a different rubric to those that do.  To me, they're completely the same.  What matters is the RP world, not the game-as-game. 

 

I really want to say, again, that I'm not trying to convince you to do otherwise.  It really is to each their own, enjoyment of RP is an entirely subjective matter.  The only thing I took any exception to, whatsoever, was the suggestion that people who don't want to level a character to RP it, shouldn't bother with MMO RP.

 

Edit: I will just add that I do like it when the visual aid is there!  Its fun RPing with people who put a lot of effort into their look, their outfits, gear, and fashion (obviously I do quite a bit of this myself!)  I just understand the innate limitations of the game engine's ability to portray our characters.

 

I just wanted to swing by here and voice my support for pretty much everything you've said in this thread, Aya. I have roleplayed and roleplayed with sooooo many characters that were not at all like what their OOC avatar may present. It's very easy for me to draw a line and accept whatever the player is describing as their character. Heck in TERA, my husband roleplayed the main villain of a huge rp plot, which included a level 11 baraka (decked out in the best armor skins we could buy lol) plus several other level 11 characters that were actually constructs made of termite mud or flesh or swamp-nastiness but were represented in-game by a castanic or aman or baraka. And these things wiped the floor with many a level 60 rp character. I had not a single issue with it! We've also been known in the past to spend so much time roleplaying that it takes us ages to level, so...

 

Yeah, I just don't associate OOC game constructs with IC things at all.

[Unnamed Mercenary]

am I the odd duck out?  I actually run my raids In character and do just fine (admittedly on the games im not new at lol).  My wife and i are used to RPing during quests, raids, dungeons, or even out farming.  We are no slouches when it comes to playing pve either, she was the top raid healer for her everquest 2 server for years, and i was ranked #3 tank on city of heroes virtue server for more than a year.

 

I have always seen RP as being in character while you play the character not stopping and pretending to move places while all talking in a circle.  I run pathfinder games on Saturdays for that lol.

 

Am i just misunderstanding the RP talk? (the terms do seem to change everytime i turn around... yay getting old lol)

 

While there are a collection of players who RP within the main scenerio quest, I think the RPC has a wide variety of characters, many of which take on a much...lesser role in the story? I've found most are about standard NPC/city-NPC tier, generally without the Echo or Warrior of Light statuses. Some may go so far as to only roleplay a class and not a job, should the game's lore present the job as a "only the main character who is super special can become this".

 

That is not to disuade you from RPing what you like, however! I think a balance and perhaps even a gradient of characters and their abilities is what makes the game feel so alive. When one can be a simple city-dweller up to the hero who saves the day, it allows for a very diverse amount of roleplay to occur. That said, a low-fantasy minded player/character is not likely to mesh well with a high-fantasy minded player/character. It's just the nature of RP. It is expected that people be respectful of others' playstyles (even if you can't take their character seriously or anything else)

 

((in terms of my own roleplay, Franz is certainly not the main character. Or even that skilled in his matial abilities. But he's durable. And has a mess of problems that are fun to work through, although they certainly push some of the lore to its limits.))

[Thorgar]

am I the odd duck out?  I actually run my raids In character and do just fine (admittedly on the games im not new at lol).  My wife and i are used to RPing during quests, raids, dungeons, or even out farming.  We are no slouches when it comes to playing pve either, she was the top raid healer for her everquest 2 server for years, and i was ranked #3 tank on city of heroes virtue server for more than a year.

 

I have always seen RP as being in character while you play the character not stopping and pretending to move places while all talking in a circle.  I run pathfinder games on Saturdays for that lol.

 

Am i just misunderstanding the RP talk? (the terms do seem to change everytime i turn around... yay getting old lol)

 

While there are a collection of players who RP within the main scenerio quest, I think the RPC has a wide variety of characters, many of which take on a much...lesser role in the story? I've found most are about standard NPC/city-NPC tier, generally without the Echo or Warrior of Light statuses. Some may go so far as to only roleplay a class and not a job, should the game's lore present the job as a "only the main character who is super special can become this".

 

That is not to disuade you from RPing what you like, however! I think a balance and perhaps even a gradient of characters and their abilities is what makes the game feel so alive. When one can be a simple city-dweller up to the hero who saves the day, it allows for a very diverse amount of roleplay to occur. That said, a low-fantasy minded player/character is not likely to mesh well with a high-fantasy minded player/character. It's just the nature of RP. It is expected that people be respectful of others' playstyles (even if you can't take their character seriously or anything else)

 

((in terms of my own roleplay, Franz is certainly not the main character. Or even that skilled in his matial abilities. But he's durable. And has a mess of problems that are fun to work through, although they certainly push some of the lore to its limits.))

 

actually when it comes to the point that the main story is a "chosen one" type i ignore it when i RP, cause everyone is the chosen one.  I still make a character that fits the world and roleplay it accordingly.  dungeons and raids i pass off as major raids or encounters other than teh story line one given as most dont want to kill teh big bad ubermiench every day ICly.

 

as to other peoples styles, i never try to step on anyone's toes, i dont like it when others try to ruin my fun so i wont do that to another.  I usually talk oocly with the story teller for a RP session to make sure I know the ground rules and am comfortable with them.  

 

I hope i didnt come off as some kinda elitist arsehat, was not my intention lol.  I find it odd when i hear RP'ers cant do PVE or PVP, maybe cause i started on teh RPPVP server in Everquest?

 

hmm just hit me what tickles my bad bone with completely non lore characters. its like running a D&D game with a set campaign setting and suddenly one of your players throws in Gamma World characters. Im used to running or playing with a set of rules and playing within the set boundries of that universe. same goes for MMORPG's which are just the next logical step for table top gaming.  heh my issue not anyone elses :roll:.  

 

all said and done i DO look forward to gaming with all of you at some point, we just set down ground rules ahead of time (like house rules) so everyone is on the same page and then have a damn fun good time.

[Caspar]

I personally just want more people in general to attempt the hard content, as it's well designed and a good element of the game. I do not think it is too difficult for the average player to do if they apply themselves. I enjoy the g and not just the rp in mmorpg, so I'd love for others to gain the same appreciation of it as I do. That doesn't mean I'd rate a character more favorably for being better geared or having a higher ilevel, but it would please me to see that they work hard OOC as well as ICly. I definitely would trust them to be around a lot, too, if not necessarily always available. Many people know I raid on another server, like Sounsyy. (Same server actually...) and thus there will be nights where I cannot rp much and nights where I must leavev events early, but other times I do try to spend roughly equal amounts of time on both my non rp and rp character.

 

As for the crappy gear thing, I think that it's up to you to get the gear you want to make your character "look" the part. You can of course tell people about it in rp, but wouldn't it be simpler to have a rough approximation of what your character looks like at hand? Props are great tools for accentuating character. There was a sequence I played in in which my character putting on a pair of uncharacteristic earrings was highly symbolic, but I ended up having to mention it in emote to make it clear what was going on. I kinda wished that I could get away with merely changing the gear, as that felt more subtle. There also was a sequence involving the removal of my character's eyepatch, something she is shyer about than nudity. I did emote that out as well, but I feel actually having access to all the gear in the game gives me great props with which I can show something happening as much as possible. Likewise I'm glad this expansion gave Monk more buffing abilities, as they are untargeted and can be used to emote for rp. Pretty sure Form Shift is going to be a "punching" emote for quite some time. Dunno what I'm going to do with the laser beams. Maybe this is how Virara empties a bucket of really blue water.

 

Melikre: I seem to have misunderstood you. I got the impression you equated something as mundane in a fantasy setting as ranged physical blows as outlandish as the miqo'te example and would avoid it at all costs due to OOC bias. That seemed unreasonable to me so I pointed it out, but if you're saying you'd roll with it despite it not being *personally* your style, as long as a reason for it that makes sense exists, then I can't really claim you're overly inflexible. That's more or less how I do things with less overt suspicion; if a player does something out of the boundaries of their stated profession, I just usually ask for some elaboration OOC so I know how to respond and whether my character should know about it. I would be discouraged to see people with visibility on the forum avoiding skilled rpers with detailed explanations as to why their character can do things outside of the canon class, simply because their approach to rping did not mesh with the gritty Europhile hyur blood and iron sort of rp that seems overwhelmingly popular these days and yet is not held up in the slightest by the setting. It inevitably happens regardless of what people talk about on the forums, but I want to stress openmindedness, not simply avoiding having a preference entirely.

 

That and what I always stress, that it's okay to not suck or be mundane, and the overwhelming pressure to conform and "not snowflake" on the forum is stifling to creativity sometime. I see things that reduce what is considered acceptable play, such as people relying on IC level to determine proficiency in a job, as to a certain extent part of that. In any case, I don't mind people using the approach but only because I'm lucky enough to play PVE obsessively too. It isn't always fair to people who do not progress, and I want to help others feel like their character has the appropriate credibility for the given rp at hand.

[Naunet]

As for the crappy gear thing, I think that it's up to you to get the gear you want to make your character "look" the part.

 

Really what "gear" does a person need to be a good fighter? The raid gear doesn't really say "I'm a highly skilled hand-to-hand combatant" any more than a guy in some level 20 greens. Not ICly, at least. And functionally a lot of the raid gear is just ridiculous, with all of its dangly whatsits and various additions.

 

Maybe someone feels pretty satisfied that they "look" the part in the pants they picked up from a lowbie quest and a shirt that dropped from Sastasha.

[Magellan]

As for the crappy gear thing, I think that it's up to you to get the gear you want to make your character "look" the part.

 

Really what "gear" does a person need to be a good fighter? The raid gear doesn't really say "I'm a highly skilled hand-to-hand combatant" any more than a guy in some level 20 greens. Not ICly, at least. And functionally a lot of the raid gear is just ridiculous, with all of its dangly whatsits and various additions.

 

Maybe someone feels pretty satisfied that they "look" the part in the pants they picked up from a lowbie quest and a shirt that dropped from Sastasha.

Lol. Yea. If someone tried to rp with me wearing some of the end game stuff, I'd be inclined to think they were actually icly a bad fighter who didn't wear functional gear and was maybe trying to overcompensate.

 

Rarely does true strength flaunt and brag (unless ur Hercules. Or Garlean. But the Garleans keep losing and Hercules wore a loincloth)

[Caspar]

Oh, I mean more in terms of "this gear should look vaguely like what you describe your character as wearing." Like I don't think it should be mandatory or anything, but I personally find it helpful for a character who says he's wearing a sword at his belt to be wearing a sword. I don't care about the quality specifically. I have Virara wear relatively plain-looking lower-level hora rather than lvl 50 ones because IC she breaks 'em as often as she washes her clothes. (And she only has like, two sets of clothes...) Thus she buys bulk, cheap hora, because in her experience none survive the severe training she puts herself through, and her freakish strength. I wouldn't want people to assume she's only a midrank fighter because she is wielding a lvl 30 weapon, but if they did that, I'd just play along and say they critically underestimated her, and that they'd probably recant soon enough.

 

Or they wouldn't, if dice is involved, because I rarely roll over the mean, lol.

[Flickering Ember]

Awww, 11 pages already? Too bad I didn't get to post earlier. I suppose it will be lost in the sea of discussion but here goes anyway. I'll be writing this post blind, as in not reading any of the other prior posts. That way, I can speak without forming any biases.

 

That said, what did I vote for? I'll get to that in a bit but first I would like to start off with the question: when these topics are asked in RP communities why is combat ability and power always focused on? This isn't a question directed at the participants in this thread nor is it directed at Sasha Rochester, the OP. It is directed to everyone in RP community and those that extend beyond RPC.

 

I do appreciate Sasha Rochester's wording here. She uses 'achievement' and not 'levels' or 'power level' or something of the equivalent. What about wisdom and charisma? The ability to settle disputes through pacifism? Wit and trickery? The ability to silently stealth past any threat? The ability to lead effectively? Survival skills? Etc.

 

It's a question that gets asked at least once in RP communities' forums. Though, I am grateful that the RPC seems to focus less on RP combat then other discussion boards. When a character can solve everything with combat skills, in general I think it makes the RP feel less fun. Sometimes, combat can't win over a situation. For a character who is proficient with combat might have character flaws to make up for it that make them interesting character.

 

Being good at combat, just for the sake of it just doesn't interest me. There needs to be more to the character than that.

 

What did I vote then? I voted "No, it doesn't matter."

 

What matters is writing ability. I can believe someone is strong if they are written to be in a believable way. The better able someone is to convince through writing that their characters strong, the more I will believe them. Leveling, raids, PVP, none of this matters in the end. If a role player doesn't have the writing ability to back it up, no amount of PVP is going to make me think that your character is capable or awesome.

 

Beyond that, I can't explain further because it becomes a matter of preference. Some role players put what happens in the game first and what is written by other players second. That is a legitimate preference that I can't deny.

 

But it's just not something I can connect with for my own preference. Much of RP is dependent upon writing and social interaction. If you don't have those things then you don't have RP. It's that simple.

 

I would like to close out this post with giving a positive example of a character and role player who can lend himself to both sides of the argument. He is a terror in PVP and raids actively. He is also a very capable and strong writer with a well-balanced character. His character has been portrayed very clearly to be a power house and he has several character flaws and strengths to help balance that out. His name is Zaius Rhal'seer. 

 

His character is both strong in game and is strong through his writing. We can believe that his character has power because it is such a focus in how he RP's the character and in Zaius's own story. However, through writing, we get the idea that having Zaius' power wouldn't be all that it is cracked up to be. There are very serious drawbacks for the kind of power that he has been able to achieve. They are constantly a factor in RP.

 

Though, perhaps if you are strong with writing AND have very capable in game accomplishments, it may even give your character more credit.

[Gegenji]

So, from what I've managed to gather from the debate and conversation held here... I have a general query that I think is at least somewhat relevant to the topic at hand:

 

For those who keep at least a tentative link between OOC progress and IC power - what is a reasonable amount of physical/arcane power for someone of average level (let's use 30 since it's right dab in the middle) to claim for the type of RP that you play, and how much does this "hard cap" get affected by the level of the character itself? What, in your mind, would be something that this "level 30" could accomplish, and what would be outside the realm of their ability?

 

As I mentioned, I don't really tie OOC level with IC capability - and have only leveled classes for wider dress-up options and to actually be able to help OOCly where I can with dungeon runs and the like. So, as you can probably tell with my questions to Dogberry, I'm rather curious as to how others who DO go about it that way. Is there a sort of mental metric involved, starting from generic citizen all the way up to Slayer of Primals? At what levels could people do what?

 

Is it, as people have mentioned, attributing power akin to what you might see in similar level ranges in DnD and other pen-and-paper games? The level one characters are running errands for the guards, killing rats for innkeepers, and the like... with the level 10s (our 30s, if we're considering 2nd edition) starting to become well-known and owners of sizable power and property (castles and such)... and the level 20s and beyond being those that can waltz into the depths of hell or into the heavens to lay the smack-down on whatever deity has garnered their ire?

 

Or is it just more a measure of comparison - this guy is level 10 and I'm level 30, so I should be substantially stronger/better than them? I'm curious to hear thoughts and opinions on such matters. And how those that link OOC accomplishments to IC power go about doing it.

[Caspar]

Yeah, that's very true. I like to use "proficiency" cause it ties into my usual schpiel about it being okay to not suck, as the forum tends to make a virtue of being mundane or lacking ability for fear of being a Sue. I think more than that is the ability to "sell" your character to those around you. So and so is a decorated merchant because his family owned a company and raised him to run it, etc.

[Magellan]

The problem with treating ooc level aS ic is it seems to indicate that the character had this yellow brick road of achievement. 

 

Whatever happened to setbacks? Or abject failure? Maybe they started out in the pugilist guild but failed the teachings, so learned their own style. You know... like the guy from the monk quests that goes rogue.

 

On gear: does the fact that my scholar wears a lvl 50 robe make it okay for her to summon a fairy, but if she changed into her moogle footie pj's she suddenly wouldn't be able to?

[Flickering Ember]

If a role player doesn't have the writing ability to back it up, no amount of PVP is going to make me think that your character is capable or awesome.

I would like to dissect my post here. I'm going to go into further detail with the sentence. As I look back over it, I worry that this one might be interpreted as being more harsh than I want it to.

 

In the role-playing community, writing ability vastly differs from RPer to RPer. I avoid judging other role players' writing styles. Though, I do recognize when someone is particularly talented.

 

This sentence from my original post comes with a bit of back story to it. I used to play in WoW, and my RP experiences from that game were a lot different from the ones in this one. Though, since it was the first MMO I RPed in, it also helped form many of my RP opinions.

 

I met many more role players in that community who focused entirely on PvE/PvP and yet when they joined in RP, they showed up with the most basic of RP skills. These players I would run into never showed progress past being an RP newbie.

 

They would have terribly clichéd back stories, had no personalities, and would pretty much have one sentence replies. But because they were decked out in purples and could kick your ass in PVP, somehow I was expected to take them more seriously in terms of combat and personal achievements? 

 

No. I don't think so.

 

It's understandable that a lot of the RP community is self-conscious about their writing ability. RP can be difficult and we often end up worrying whether or not people will like our characters. I totally understand that. I don't want people to get the impression that they need to have a bachelors in English for me to be able to take their characters seriously.

 

What I want to see is people being passionate. People who love their characters and love writing for them. I like seeing people who continuously seek growth and new skills. I do like a realistic approach to combat and thus enjoy practical life-like approaches to combat RP and power. (Vs. Something like Guts slaughtering hundreds of people in an hour)

 

But I also like RPing and I don't need everything 100% tailored towards me. I'm happy just to interact with you.

[Aris]

In the end it's the quality of roleplay that matters to me, how the conversation is going, seeing our characters develop in some way. If someone said they were playing a powerful mage but were wearing level 1 clothes, I would go with it if they were believable and knew their mage lore.

 

It makes me very happy if people do have the OOC to back it up, however. For me, the game is a vessel to see our characters come to life and provide the visual accompaniment. That's the point of us all roleplaying in game, making use of the world around us and basing our characters on the lore it provides.

I certainly don't expect the powerful mage to actually be OOCly an outstanding player and hardcore raider, but it would be ideal if they'd leveled a mage class and have the props to help the immersion.

 

I've never had a IC fight, but would have a big discussion beforehand about how good our characters are, and either use rolls or hope there's enough trust/respect between us both for it to work. OOC achievements wouldn't come into it.

[Flashhelix]

People like to use OOC level as a safeguard against bad level 3 edgemasters running up and trying to dominate their character, but I'm certain that 90% of the terrible "Hello, I can demolish a building with a single strike and control gravity" roleplayers are fifties, at least from what I encountered. Level's hardly a barrier to these people when you get into the really egregious stuff.

[Klynzahr]

 

Yeah, I leveled the job. They didn't. I don't see why that's bad.

 

And yes. Their emote is their perception of events. My emotes are mine.

 

Because you didn't have to level the job. You chose to level the job. To insist others must sounds less like a principled decision and more like sour grapes.

 

As for that - if both posts are only perceptions of events, then where is the objective (fictional) reality between them?

 

Actually, I do feel I had to level the job I wanted to RP. That's my standard, and if a player doesn't measure up to my standards, I'm no more obligated to RP with them any more than they are obligated to play up to my standard.

 

The truth lies in the /random in that instance only in that it connected or didn't. Good form, or bad, is a matter of perception.

 

The trouble that I find with arguments like this, is that they leave players who have limited time or resources to invest in the game with a huge disadvantage, despite the fact that many of us pour dozens of valuable hours into our RP.

 

For example I willingly acknowledge that I am a terrible tank. I dislike playing the role, my timing and positioning are pathetic, and up until last month I was playing on an old, laggy laptop that seriously exacerbated the problem.

 

By your logic I would be permanently barred from role playing as any gladiator, marauder, warrior, paladin, or dark knight character concept, irregardless of my ability to write for that character.

 

Klynzahr would never have existed :cry:

 

Instead I used White Mage to complete the MSQ in a job that I was familiar with. I leveled a few other disciple of magic classes for my own enjoyment, but I have played too many of those characters and Klyn was speaking to me. Then over a period of several months, I dragged Klyn up to level 25 gladiator and began role playing her as she was.

 

I find your assessment of a person's commitment based solely upon OOC in game milestones like level 50 to be flawed. There are many people who have leveled everything to 50 and show minimal dedication to their RP. On the opposite side stand people like myself, who for whatever reason are behind in the game but will happily pour all of their free time into a character.

 

At level 25 I had access to several sets of mail, basic half plate, and the particular sword that I wanted for Klynzahr. In fact she still uses the same weapon, despite the fact that I finally bit the bullet and got 50 paladin for her. I hope that some of you may consider being more open minded for the sake of RPers in unusual situations. No one likes to be excluded, particularly when they are just starting out.

[Melkire]

I've got a Lalafellin alt who I roleplay as a Brass Blade. I simply have NOT had the time to level her PLD to 50 and grind out AK and WP for the Vermillion set's pieces and the Sipahi Turban. Instead, I stick her in rust red haubergeons and gauntlets and such. It gets even worse with this alt of mine because she's also supposed to be a capable thaumaturge and conjurer, and yet I've barely leveled those classes at ALL compared to PLD. So I understand and sympathize with those in similar situations, even if I raise an eyebrow from time to time with people who haven't leveled the main class/job of their main character.

 

Melikre: I seem to have misunderstood you. I got the impression you equated something as mundane in a fantasy setting as ranged physical blows as outlandish as the miqo'te example and would avoid it at all costs due to OOC bias. That seemed unreasonable to me so I pointed it out, but if you're saying you'd roll with it despite it not being *personally* your style, as long as a reason for it that makes sense exists, then I can't really claim you're overly inflexible. That's more or less how I do things with less overt suspicion; if a player does something out of the boundaries of their stated profession, I just usually ask for some elaboration OOC so I know how to respond and whether my character should know about it. I would be discouraged to see people with visibility on the forum avoiding skilled rpers with detailed explanations as to why their character can do things outside of the canon class, simply because their approach to rping did not mesh with the gritty Europhile hyur blood and iron sort of rp that seems overwhelmingly popular these days and yet is not held up in the slightest by the setting. It inevitably happens regardless of what people talk about on the forums, but I want to stress openmindedness, not simply avoiding having a preference entirely.

 

That and what I always stress, that it's okay to not suck or be mundane, and the overwhelming pressure to conform and "not snowflake" on the forum is stifling to creativity sometime. I see things that reduce what is considered acceptable play, such as people relying on IC level to determine proficiency in a job, as to a certain extent part of that. In any case, I don't mind people using the approach but only because I'm lucky enough to play PVE obsessively too. It isn't always fair to people who do not progress, and I want to help others feel like their character has the appropriate credibility for the given rp at hand.

 

Peer pressure, being what it is, tends to be unavoidable. Folks will inevitably run into social norms/standards/what-have-you that settle into place that arise not through any malicious intent but from individual decisions as to what said individuals want and/or don't want. It's a shitty situation, to be sure. Keeping an open mind helps, of course, but I'd really not care to see folk's preferences laid by the wayside to accommodate other people's preferences because at that point we're still playing favorites, except then we're doing so deliberately.

 

...I'm intrigued about this perceived "gritty Europhile hyur blood and iron sort of rp" you mentioned. Putting aside my curiosity as to what "Europhile" has to do with anything, are you referring to the distinction between what's commonly referred to as low fantasy and high fantasy? Because that's worth a thread all on its own.

[Caspar]

It has to do with the recent popularity of medieval European martial arts, both as a hobby and in fiction, whereas in past decades, martial arts in entertainment usually ignored them. I'd go into it more, but I don't want it to develop into a tangent any more than it has. It had a bit to do with the idea that the air waves were unrealistic, when in reality they were really mundane given what people are capable of in the setting, especially since a prominent NPC did just that. I guess having a fist full of smaller swords is no go, but a long sword is? I dunno, maybe I'm exaggerating a bit because I've lost count of how many times a meat and potatoes, sword and board player called something like that "too anime," but I just saw it as an example of uneven and arbitrary skepticism. A pet peeve of mine is that uneven application of "realism" in an unrealistic setting, ever since my D&D days.

 

What matters to me is not necessarily whether or not a class canonically has done or can do something, but whether or not it is explainable or fits properly anyway into the story being told. If people can do amazing things in setting, then I give them the benefit of the doubt and let them explain away. Better to be open than closed. I think mostly my particular point there was just pointing out that inconsistency, rather than arguing for an universal level of "gritty," "adventurous" or "cinematic" storytelling, as that depends on the players and stories written to each level of believability can exist under certain specific conditions in the game setting.

[Flickering Ember]

 

If you're going to RP a character and not level them, why even subscribe to the game? You'd probably be a lot better suited doing forum RP. Gaia Online is over there, bro.

 

 

 

Edit: I should also add that Forum RP bores me to tears.

 

 

You may have answered your own question there.

 

 

Truth be told, when I first read your post, I was a little upset with its contents. I took your post personally because I am a player who subscribes to FFXIV for roleplay. I do enjoy content but it is not the main reason why I am here.

 

 

I realize in hindsight that you probably weren't speaking to roleplayers like me with this post. Mostly, because I do have a leveled character. (Though technically not anymore, heh.)

 

 

After first posting and then going back and reading the entire thread, your posts do come off as a little harsh before you explain them in greater depth in the latter pages of the thread, Dogberry.

 

 

I did want to bring up this post to at least say that I can sympathize with people who never hit max level. Roleplaying on MMOs is my favorite medium of roleplay. You're going to get fast response times, (IMO faster than IMs because the other person in IM RP is usually doing something else while RPing), premade worlds, avatars you can make yourself without any artistic ability, immersive graphics, etc.

 

 

There is a lot of reasons for why someone who is not that interested in a MMO playstyle but is interested in RP would choose to come here over other places. That's not to deter you from the points that you were making but rather just to give you some insight on a perspective that might seem a little strange to you.

[Paradox]

In the end, it comes to down to people roleplaying how they want to play. Some favor story and presentation of their character in roleplay more than running all over the game doing PvE. And that's fine. I level my characters not to show off their power, but because I do enjoy the pve aspect of the game. As someone who started in RP tabletop, I understood the necessity of stats, but at 17, I got into online chatroom RP, and we had no stats there. It was all freeform, you just had to be creative enough at writing to back up your claims and convince the others you had those capabilities. I think that's the biggest issue is being convincing. At the crux of this argument, you have two basic sides. One who will think you can't RP powerful without the mechanics supporting it. And the other who would rather take the..I guess for lack of a better word, 'purity' of the roleplay itself to decide. Cowboys and Indians didn't have gearscores, assigned levels, or any of that but as kids, we played it just fine.

 

I have characters who are powerful who are leveled, and who aren't leveled. Honestly because..well..I dislike grinding. I can only work on one character at a time, and only for so many hours before the repetitive grind gets on my nerves and I have to quit. I'm notorious for having little attention span for constantly repeating actions, and after a while the dungeons all look and feel the same to me. So I take RP breaks. Sometimes for days, weeks. And no leveling happens. But my character is still the same, or grows through the RP rather than the grinding. If a level 1 character can thoroughly convince me beyond a shadow of a doubt that she's a Primal in disguise and can suplex a train, hell, I'll roll with it. Because if someone can convince me of that, it means their description or ideas are rich and creative, and I've found a gem to RP with.

 

If they can't convince me, or just want raw power without reasonable creativity, then well. I'll just RP not really taking them seriously, because that's how I'd react. If someone tells you they're Jesus (no offense to anyone genuinely faithful/religious), you're gonna have doubts. But if they can show you the miracles, then yeah, you'd probably be convinced. If someone can reasonably show me *why* their character can do things like that then I'm fine. Your level doesn't matter. Though my character might wonder why you're so strong and still wear those ratty clothes, but hey. With great power often comes great insanity.

 

The only reason I generally level the classes tied to my IC abilities is so I can get a feel for how they work, then I add my own flavor to it. But that's my choice, and if someone else's choice is different, it's not my call to make how powerful their character is in roleplay. I mentioned this a while back in a thread..mm..I think it was on magic, and how you use it on your characters. But I digress. To me, OOC achievement is not necessary for high-powered RP. Just like doing nothing but PvP does not make your character a better fighter IC. Gearscore=/=IC power. Maybe it seems odd to me, but applying an RP powerlevel to items and abilities acquired in PvE and not RP..seems the foreign entity. When I PvE it's generally seperate from my RP because..well, pugs, honestly. I get most of my gear pugging. And I'm not going to count that as RP, because it wasn't. So the gear and levels I got have nothing to do with my actual RP, so yeah. I can't viably connect them other than by being able to click my numkeys and show off my shiny in-game skill. Meh.

 

I guess to each their own, but I'd rather play with a person who's an IC badass and so creative about it they can prove it regardless of what their mechanical level is and make it fun, than someone who says they're stronger than you on principle because their gearscore/in game level lords over yours. It smacks of someone being powerful because of button clicking, not character building. Which makes no sense on its own. Just my two gil.

[Tortles]

I voted "somewhat important". Personally, I'd like to get out of the bars and out into the open world a little more. IC dungeon runs, IC hunts, or just running around in the world in character. Being a higher level lets you go to more dungeons and safely navigate other places without the threat of death. I'm level 41 now, and while I'm a little tired of being a Coerthas errand boy for the Scions, I've also been able to go to some amazing places in the game that I wouldn't have been able to explore without being clobbered.

 

I wouldn't judge anyone based on their gear. I personally don't have the patience or desire to do extensive grinding for any gear, and I tend not to like endgame gear in any game because it's often pretty over the top.

[Blue]

Excuse me for the double post, but I feel like repeating a question I asked back on page 6 that was so far ignored, since I am pretty interested in others' opinions of the matter:

 

On the topic of the grand company gear though, does it mean that people will scowl if I use an alt that claims to be Ishgardian even though he isn't past 2.55 and as such has no access to Ishgard? Food for thought.

 

This being because I have two characters that are Ishgardian (well, one is Coerthan to be exact...) but they're both um... still lv47, and pretty far from gaining access to Ishgard (many thanks, Yoshi-P). Should I refrain from RPing them at all until their progress is sufficient for them to be around Ishgard?

[Paradox]

People have been playing Ishgardians for a long time already, before Ishgard was even a thing. So I certainly wouldn't have an issue with your Ishgardian character, Blue. Everyone has their reason for being out in the world, y'know?

[Addison]

I feel that if you're going to portray your character as the 'best' of something, you should at least put the effort into unlocking all their skills. This is still, first and foremost, an MMORPG. I can't take the guy who spent all his life training to be an elite -whatever- seriously when he doesn't even have the class unlocked. I'm sorry.

 

We expect it for crafters, don't we? Why isn't the same rules applied to adventuring?

 

It is of my opinion that when you spend a large majority of your roleplay trying to convince everyone how much of a bad ass you are, you need to actually go out there and prove that you're a bad ass once in a while.

[Paradox]

'We' don't expect it of crafters. I don't doubt someone's IC ability to do a craft just because they don't have the fancy 50+ Crafter clothing. Saying we expect it of crafters is a bit of a sweeping statement. I've never done such a thing. The statement also has a bit of a false ring there; how does one 'prove' one is a badass in roleplay by doing mindless pve grind and acquiring over the top shiny outfits and super duper magic weapons?

 

 

I don't think it has anything to do with roleplay at all aside from fancy duds. Well, unless all of your dungeons are RP dungeons and it genuinely fits into the roleplay history of your character as having visited those places. Yes, this is an MMO. But just as there are people who pvp all the time and people who pve all the time, again, there are people that roleplay all the time. And refusing to acknowledge their character advancement in roleplay they've legitimately done and put real work into because they didn't go grind World of Darkness all day seems a bit of a snub. They work just as hard, by roleplaying their character, spending hours developing their story, interacting with others. So are you saying the work they put in creatively is less equal to the work someone else puts in button mashing and yelling at bad healers and tanks when a group wipes?