Regarding Au Ra speech

[LiveVoltage]

Then explain how the WoL is able to understand Dragon speak during the 3.0 MSQ if the echo doesn't allow it.

 

 

That's likely just a thing Dragons can do. Alphinud and Eistinian don't have the Echo but are also able to understand in their heads, despite what their ears are hearing.

 

 

Alphanaud said after that cutscene though that he was able to understand the Dragon because of it's sheer force of will, which debunks the idea that the Dragon spoke to them in their native language.

[Gone.]

For my two Raen, I place all of their Doman musings in brackets like a film script with some additional emotive dialog to note that they're speaking in their native language. Classiest way to go about it imo.

[Senryo]

I want to thank everyone for their input! I've certainly found it illuminating.

[Lost River]

There are multiple languages in the world; as given in the NIN storyline and the whole bit with the Xaela; as they also have a cross-tribal language as well as some also use clicks and whistles. 

 

The whole WoL can transcend all language barriers; as for others speaking a familiar language, it does not state for example, how long the Xaela been in Ishgard since Ishgard lands were there, long enough for there to be bloodshed between the Ishgards and Xaela as well as co-existence.

 

As for other things, language barriers do evolve and dilute, especially when it comes to conquest. It isn't impossible to say, that a language shift would be when the Empire took over Othard and such, as the Empire seems to speak the same language as the Eorzeans, of course their tongue and teaching people that language would come. We have real world examples of that very thing.

 

But, in the short of it. Its possible, to have different languages, be intermediate, or know fluent Eorzean tongue and other languages tied to their regional differences and sometimes racial influence, such as say, one Xaela's tribe who speaks with clicks and whistles.

[Jana]

Then explain how the WoL is able to understand Dragon speak during the 3.0 MSQ if the echo doesn't allow it.

 

 

That's likely just a thing Dragons can do. Alphinud and Eistinian don't have the Echo but are also able to understand in their heads, despite what their ears are hearing.

 

 

Alphanaud said after that cutscene though that he was able to understand the Dragon because of it's sheer force of will, which debunks the idea that the Dragon spoke to them in their native language.

 

 

Yes, the Dragon's sheer force of will was enough that Alphinaud and Eistnian were able to understand in their heads, despite not having the echo to translate what their ears were hearing. If Warrior of Light and Ysayle hadn't had the echo and been spoken to by the same dragon, they would have still understood by the same mechanism.

 

[Gaspard]

As long as nobody's literally doing "Wow, Eorzea! Sugoi! Kawaii desu! Uguu~" then I don't care.

 

 

...Much. <_<

 

 

 

too late. 

 

I've seen it.

I am sure i will continue to.

[Gaspard]

As long as nobody's literally doing "Wow, Eorzea! Sugoi! Kawaii desu! Uguu~" then I don't care.

 

 

...Much. <_<

 

 

 

too late. 

 

I've seen it.

I am sure i will continue to.

[LiveVoltage]

Then explain how the WoL is able to understand Dragon speak during the 3.0 MSQ if the echo doesn't allow it.

 

 

That's likely just a thing Dragons can do. Alphinud and Eistinian don't have the Echo but are also able to understand in their heads, despite what their ears are hearing.

 

 

 

Alphanaud said after that cutscene though that he was able to understand the Dragon because of it's sheer force of will, which debunks the idea that the Dragon spoke to them in their native language.

 

 

Yes, the Dragon's sheer force of will was enough that Alphinaud and Eistnian were able to understand in their heads, despite not having the echo to translate what their ears were hearing. If Warrior of Light and Ysayle hadn't had the echo and been spoken to by the same dragon, they would have still understood by the same mechanism.

 

 

There is a distinct difference though between talking to a normal dragon and talking to that one dragon guy. Its a difference of age and power. Its safe to assume that the older and wiser dragons have a considerable amount of will that they can project their wills on others, whereas other Dragon's cannot. Therefore, my point still stands.

 

The echo still allows you to talk or communicate with a considerable amount of people who speak different tongues outside of yours, which this does include species with the ability to project their wills into other races.

[Blue]

Powers

 

The most profound ability is seeing memories of another being to view past events. This power occurs automatically without the user's control, but can yield information they would not obtain otherwise. These visions can even be from millennia ago, as the Adventurer once saw an event from Emperor Xande's life in the Third Astral Era.

 

A more subtle effect is the implicit understand of languages. Throughout the story, any foreign language is automatically understood by the player character, usually with the dialogue boxes slightly altered to imply this is in effect. The most obvious instance of this is whenever Ascians have speaking roles.

 

Source: http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Echo

[Kismet]

As long as nobody's literally doing "Wow, Eorzea! Sugoi! Kawaii desu! Uguu~" then I don't care.

 

 

...Much. <_<

 

 

 

too late. 

 

I've seen it.

I am sure i will continue to.

 

...

 

/em sobs into her hands.

[Altitis Acquired]

Othard is an entire continent on its own, and not just another region of Eorzea. That Othard has its own language wouldn't be all that far-fetched. And because Othard and Doma is very Asian/Japanese inspired, then it's only logical that their mothertongue is as well. Seeing as the jobclass "Ninja" originates from Doma and along with it comes abilities like "Fuma Shuriken", "Hyoton", "Suiton" etc, which are ALL Japanese words, making the assumption that Domans speak Japanese makes sense.

 

Eorzean is the "Common" language, and maybe they teach it in Doma as well, or they have learned to speak it by the Garleans, who seem to speak it as well, while being under their invasion (20 years of oppression is reason enough to learn your enemies' language).

 

I wouldn't be surprised if each race had their own language, but because the Hyur race is the most common one, their language was the one which became the "Common" tongue of Eorzea. Kinda like how English (as well as Spanish and Chinese) is one of the most common spoken language worldwide, because it has become an international way of communication, yet each country still has their own individual language as well.

 

So yeah, for the people of Othard, whether they are Doman Hyurs or Au Ra, to speak to eachother in their mothertongue and showing so by putting it in <> brackets, indicating that only others who understand the Othard/Doman tongue, is alright. And those who do not understand would most likely hear them talk in a Japanese fashion.

 

Personally, when my Au Ra is explaining something to an Eorzean, he uses a few Japanese terms. For example:

- "I am trained in the way of the Ninja, what you call 'assassin'."

- "In Doma I saw ninjas using a 'dagger' with extra prongs on to disarm their foes. It was called a 'sai'."

- "Ah, you are proficient in the use of a 'naginata'? I believe you call it a 'lance'."

 

However, going full on Japanese on someone and expecting them to know what you are saying, just because they RP someone from Othard/Doma... that's maybe going a bit too far, as I would think most people don't know Japanese other than certain words.

[-no longer matters-]

In game all the Au Ra talk pretty normally, Some of their  speech does seem a tad proper, and then there are others of talk pretty standard like the Scions do. (See they don't have Limsa accents.)

[Aya]

This is pretty much how I feel. If we're basing everything on naming conventions, then we'll also have to assume Elezen speak French when there's just no evidence of that. I don't mind if people want to assume Doma has its own language--I just don't see any reference to it in the MSQ. Yugiri doesn't even have an accent and speaks flawless English (or whatever we'd like to refer to as the common tongue).

To be honest, the naming conventions (especially for Ishgardians/Elezen) make no sense if they do not speak "French".  You do not get to French pronunciation by speaking English.  You can ask any French teacher you like for confirmation of that :-D

 

I have always played under the assumption that Ishgardians speak their own language, to the point where its part of Aya's every day roleplay (including her very obvious French-ish accent).  The complete lack of any reference to this in the MSQ has given me more than a moment's pause, wondering if I'm just being completely silly, but it would make sense for the MSQ to smooth over these with the echo.  Like many shows, and games, there is a sense that accounting for believable language barriers is distracting to the game itself, and they have a tendency to minimize them as much as possible.  That doesn't mean we should necessarily dismiss them from an RP perspective.

 

Though, anyone whose insistent that they just do not exist, I can't really argue with either!

[Merri]

Some other food for thought (if it hasn't already been mentioned), but--

 

Yugiri's new voice actress in Heavensward has a fairly heavy accent. Unmistakably sounds like a native Japanese speaker who has learned English (i.e Eorzean).

Think between that, and everything else, it's pretty easy to infer that the Doman people speak Hydaelyn's equivalent of Japanese. All the item names, cultural references, etc. I mean, they even flat out refer to you as a Shinobi specifically, not a Ninja.

[Tumensuns]

I borrow mongolian words for things my characters can't explain from my culture to eorzean's.

[Akini]

Personally, when my Au Ra is explaining something to an Eorzean, he uses a few Japanese terms. For example:

- "I am trained in the way of the Ninja, what you call 'assassin'."

- "In Doma I saw ninjas using a 'dagger' with extra prongs on to disarm their foes. It was called a 'sai'."

- "Ah, you are proficient in the use of a 'naginata'? I believe you call it a 'lance'."

 

 

I can see using those examples as a way of describing how things are different in Doma, but they are different terms for specific things that are in fact different. In this world a Ninja has their own way of doing things that set them apart from rogues and an assassin could be used to describe any sort of trained killer whether they use a dagger or just simply poison someones drink. A sai is a small metal weapon and that is where the similarities with a dagger just about end since they are not bladed and are used to mosty to disarm or punch through an opponent. Same goes with the naginata compared to a lance. While both might be considered polearms they are very different since one has a blade and the other has just a pointed tip. 

 

Since my Au Ra uses a naginata she would be quick to correct someone who made a statement like the one you used as an example since it would be like saying "Ah, you are proficient with the use of a 'katana'? I believe you call it a 'rapier'.". Two different weapon from two different parts of the world used in two different ways based on the weapon's strengths.

 

The way I rationalize the different terms for things is not because there are two completely different languages, but because there are two completely different cultures. Take some form the US and someone from the UK for example. We both use cars and speak english. But whereas I go to a gas station and put gasoline in my car, the people from across the pond go to a petrol station and put petrol in their car. I store things in the trunk of my car and they put theirs in the boot. I leave my car in a parking garage and they leave theirs in a car park and these examples are actually comparing apples to apples.

 

So by all means have different terms for things and even use idioms that would sound foreign to people who are originally from your character's new found home, but until we have lore, I feel all that pretending there is another language will do is alienate people and could make you look silly if lore later says specifically no such language exists in canon.

[allgivenover]

I can accept French origin names without Elezen speaking French because of their geological proximity, usage of the same alphabet, and the fact that French and English are both romance languages that are very much related to each other.

 

It's a bit harder to swallow the same thing for Domans because they are so distant, and because the naming conventions use Kanji, nor does English have a strong connection to Japanese the way French does to English.

 

Doman names have meanings the same way Japanese names do.

 

If there were no language behind those meanings the setting ceases to make any sense whatsoever.

 

Now, we might claim that beyond naming the language is dead, but if the language was totally dead then the currently spoken language would have mutated the names as well. Yet the names are not mutated, they are names lifted straight out of 16th-18th century Japan.

 

I can see it making sense if the language is in decline due to the Garlean occupation or any number of reasons, but the notion that it's totally dead or never existed in the first place frankly just doesn't make sense.

[Virella]

This is pretty much how I feel. If we're basing everything on naming conventions, then we'll also have to assume Elezen speak French when there's just no evidence of that. I don't mind if people want to assume Doma has its own language--I just don't see any reference to it in the MSQ. Yugiri doesn't even have an accent and speaks flawless English (or whatever we'd like to refer to as the common tongue).

To be honest, the naming conventions (especially for Ishgardians/Elezen) make no sense if they do not speak "French".  You do not get to French pronunciation by speaking English.  You can ask any French teacher you like for confirmation of that :-D

Uuuh.

 

My sister and I both have Gaelic names, pronounce it as such, but I am pretty certain I'm Dutch to the core, and outside the online world I rarely speak any English. I may just point out that having x name from a language does not automatically make you a native in that language x_X It is a bit flawed logic you are using there.

[ArmachiA]

I think she's saying if there was no such thing as a French language then those names wouldn't be born from... anywhere. You have a Gaelic name because of the Gaelic language it was born from even if you yourself do not speak Gaelic.

[Aya]

Uuuh.

 

My sister and I both have Gaelic names, pronounce it as such, but I am pretty certain I'm Dutch to the core, and outside the online world I rarely speak any English. I may just point out that having x name from a language does not automatically make you a native in that language x_X It is a bit flawed logic you are using there.

Do you think you'd be able to do so if there was no such language as Gaelic?

 

To be clear, I of course was never suggesting that having a name granted knowledge of a language.  Only that we know French names exist in a manner that is pronounced like French.  That cannot follow from English/Common, realistically.  Somehow French pronunciation exists such that it provides the means to create and pronounce Ishgardian/Elezen names.  It seems reasonable to infer the existence of the language because of that.

 

Gaelic names can only exist and be pronounced because Gaelic languages exist, and so on.

 

I think she's saying if there was no such thing as a French language then those names wouldn't be born from... anywhere. You have a Gaelic name because of the Gaelic language it was born from even if you yourself do not speak Gaelic.

Exactly!

 

And I don't think its conclusive at all, just suggestive.  Its only a game and sometimes games takes shortcuts with such things (just as they do with the language issue generally).

[allgivenover]

Uuuh.

 

My sister and I both have Gaelic names, pronounce it as such, but I am pretty certain I'm Dutch to the core, and outside the online world I rarely speak any English. I may just point out that having x name from a language does not automatically make you a native in that language x_X It is a bit flawed logic you are using there.

 

I'd be very surprised if your modern Gaelic names were exactly the same as their origin. My mother's maiden name is a good example of this, Galbreath being a mutation of Galbraith.

[Akini]

Another thing we all need to remember is the common tongue is english only to those who play the game in english. So the common language for people playing from Japan is japanese.

 

Does that mean to a japanese RPer Doma is an english speaking place?

 

I don't think it does because that is silly. I think SE just wanted to give different places a culture all their own so they borrow themes from real world cultures. I think most of Hydealyn speaks the common tongue with the exception of a select few and very old cultures and when the player character speaks with those people it shows them that the echo is being used by the font of the text. A font that that is not seen when speaking to domans.

[V'aleera]

Actually even in Japanese Doman words like "shinobi" are singled out as being foreign within the text.

[Hyakki]

Actually even in Japanese Doman words like "shinobi" are singled out as being foreign within the text.

 

According to relic weapon lore, shinobi and ninjutsu were foreign to Doma.

 

Anyroad, let's talk about that text ye brought. It contains an account o' how a Far Eastern ninja named Sasuke brought ninjutsu to Doma. Seems ninjutsu was invented in a land far to the east of Othard's shores─same isle as where Sasuke grew up. The bloke was the best ninja about, so he gets secret orders or summat to cross the sea, an' makes his way to Doma. Life for the Doman commonfolk was shite back then, what with the starvin' an' the poverty. The worst, though, was the bleedin' tyrant what ruled the place! Well, bein' the charitable sort, what's Sasuke to do but teach the smallfolk ninjutsu so they can win back their freedom? So yer man trains some ninjas, an' together they boot the ruler's royal arse off the throne, an' put a dagger in his back for good measure. Well, with the dynasty dead, yer ninjas go lookin' for the spoils o' victory. An' what should they find in the palace vaults? Aye, a pair o' Yoshimitsu! After that, the lot o' them headed to the outlands o' Doma to build a hidden village, so's to live as ninjas away from pryin' eyes. 'Tis there they wrote a bit on the Yoshimitsu, enough that I know now what's wrong. Seems the rhyme about the smitty ain't about his member's thickness: The daggers themselves are too damned slim! See, the vamper's knives make a good host, an' what ye got now will slip 'twixt a man's ribs jus' fine. But Yoshimitsu were made o' folded steel what could pierce armor without shatterin' nor crumplin'. A thick blade─aye, that's what yer weapons are wantin' for.

 

source

[Akini]

Actually even in Japanese Doman words like "shinobi" are singled out as being foreign within the text.

 

I understand that there are different terms used from Doma and that is why I used the example of how americans speaking english use different terms than the those from the UK because of different cultures and what not, but in the end still speak the same language. 

 

It just seems like if they used a completely different language then we would've heard about it during the refugee portion of the MSQ because look at immigration in the real world. One of the biggest points of contention comes from when the immigrants come in and speak a different language than the natives. It's just too big of a thing to not address if it were canon. You'd think Lolorito would have said something like "Not only do we have plenty refugees already in Ul'dah, but these ones don't even speak our language!" during the debate.

 

Maybe they have an old language that is not in use really anymore besides a few phrases and terms here and there like in GW2's Cantha or the real world's Latin, but again without in game proof I think assuming a whole other language exists will only make for retcons down the road if it proves to be untrue and presently only serves to divide RPers.