Anything other than Ul'Dah

[Aya]

But yeah, whoever decided that rogues should be paladins with knives really doesn't understand why Limsa was interesting.

 

and the people who associated Limsa with criminals ONLY didn't understand Limsa at all either unless you forego the entirety of the blacksmiths/armorers/culinarians/arcanists and farmers of Middle La Noscea.

In a city of pirates, the pirates and their ilk are going to get the most attention

 

I seem to recall mentioning that my in-character focus in Limsa lies in shopping and beaches! :-D

[Kellach Woods]

the point is, they're there to essentially ensure there's honor among thieves. probably doesn't help that they seemed to have lifted Jacke straight from Johnny Depp.

 

also, their opposition with the Maelstrom?

 

kiiiiiiiiiinda important.

[Aya]

the point is, they're there to essentially ensure there's honor among thieves. probably doesn't help that they seemed to have lifted Jacke straight from Johnny Depp.

 

also, their opposition with the Maelstrom?

 

kiiiiiiiiiinda important.

Couldn't disagree more, honestly.  They're represented as far too potent, and far too righteous.  The idea that there's an enforced code of honor amongst the Limsa gangs that precludes inter-gang conflict is just chilling to the very essence of what Limsa could, and should represent. 

 

There should be a palpable tension between the Admiral and her Maelstrom, and the people they're trying to rule.  To throw in this idea that there's actually this very strict code of conduct they're forced, by threat of death, to follow, and that every pirate accedes to lest they get murdered by the Rogues Guild, dumps a bucket of ice water on that tension leaving the whole setting rather antiseptic.

[Zhavi]

I agree with Aya. I also feel that it just doesn't make sense. I do not mind the idea of a more secretive policing force who operate alongside the law rather than directly beneath it (shit happens in real life too), but the way it was implemented and the breadth of it (we're everywhere and know everything!) makes Limsa feel more like a two-dimensional caricature of a setting than a richly developed and complex balance of forces (as, I feel, Ul'dah does).

 

I'm not saying Limsa should be a repeat of Ul'dah, or even Gridania, but as Aya said I feel like they sort of just drove right past a lot of the interesting points of conflict in order to make the rogues the Super Speshul Batman Crew who make sure there's no inter-conflict in the city! I echo Aya's sentiments about too potent and too righteous. You have plenty of that in Ul'dah! I think there's way more room for the rogue's guild to have been struggling to protect the image of Limsa as Merlwyb had sold it, doing the unasked for tasks that she can't do and fighting an uphill battle in the process, succeeding by the narrowest of margins thanks to their superior tactics and information gathering.

 

Instead we got 'what?! Limsans don't fight each other! That's mean and unfriendly and we won't tolerate it! We'll police the entire city so it doesn't happen! And it doesn't! Ever!'

 

Which, I just... that's the sort of thing I'd expect from the comic relief character. It makes me sad to see that in Limsa.

[Kellach Woods]

And yet the Maelstrom's still got recruits trying to wipe out the rogues' guild. (ROG story)

 

And yet the farmers are struggling 'cause most are pirates who've never lived on the land before, a few of them eschewing the authority and essentially turning coat (Middle La Noscea)

 

Most of you do not realize just how much the Admiral has clout (winning the Trident (IIRC that's the name) definitely made her something to be reckoned with).

 

Why should Limsa represent a seedy city with inter-gang warfare? Hell, everything surrounding Pearl Lane in Ul'dah screams that a lot more than Limsa. Limsa is tightly regulated because otherwise they'd fall and they damned well know it - both to the two primal summoning beast tribes and the rest of the city-states who wouldn't tolerate their shit for very long. And then, y'know, Garlemald.

 

And being shown to be too potent? The whole city is too potent, period! From outright making bulletproof armor, to having the only guild that was able to stand up to Lolorito, to fending off constant beast tribe attacks from two fronts, only asking for help when they're so deep in trouble that they can't realistically throw more pirates at the problem.

 

Even, the whole point of the ACN/ROG quests is that even with all of those securities, THERE ARE STILL CONFLICTS IN LIMSA.

[Aya]

Why should Limsa represent a seedy city with inter-gang warfare? Hell, everything surrounding Pearl Lane in Ul'dah screams that a lot more than Limsa. Limsa is tightly regulated because otherwise they'd fall and they damned well know it - both to the two primal summoning beast tribes and the rest of the city-states who wouldn't tolerate their shit for very long. And then, y'know, Garlemald.

Just my opinion:

 

1) Its a Pirate city (or supposed to be).  And even as Zhavi and I are envisioning, Tortuga it isn't.

 

2) The Rogue Guild as Justice League just isn't plausible or interesting.  (And they just cannot get away with using that name.  Its like an exterminator service named "Roaches are Us").

 

3) Its boring.  Watching white paint on the towers dry boring.  Gridania boring!

[Zhavi]

 

 

Why should Limsa represent a seedy city with inter-gang warfare? Hell, everything surrounding Pearl Lane in Ul'dah screams that a lot more than Limsa. Limsa is tightly regulated because otherwise they'd fall and they damned well know it - both to the two primal summoning beast tribes and the rest of the city-states who wouldn't tolerate their shit for very long. And then, y'know, Garlemald.

 

 

Because there are elements of that everywhere. The privateers. The smuggling. The hints of bloody conflict between pirate gangs (Missing Member, for example). The fact that Limsa is a place where a lot of money runs through, and there are still plenty of pirates whose interests fall within their own crew rather than national agenda. The fact that they chose to place the rogue guild in Limsa at all shows that there is still plenty of dirty crap going on underfoot, and enough of it that it needs regulating.

 

 

The Admiral does have clout, of course! That's why she has the Maelstrom. But when it comes to people trying to make as much of a profit as they can, there are still going to be plenty who are running under the radar doing just that. That is what they essentially killed with the rogues, by doing this weird thing where any Limsan vs Limsan fighting gets nulled. And that is the rp venue that I feel was done in, and partially what continues to make Limsa feel less coherent, and thus less of a place where open player run rp is likely to flourish.

 

I'm not arguing that there is no conflict period in limsa, but that " I feel like they sort of just drove right past a lot of the interesting points of conflict in order to make the rogues the Super Speshul Batman Crew who make sure there's no inter-conflict in the city!" -- by inter-conflict I mean between pirate crews etc. A slim distinction, yeah, but one I'm making anyways. That's why I compared them to batman.

[V'aleera]

There is nothing in lore preventing internal conflict within Limsa Lominsa. You can have different pirate crews at eachother's throats and trying to one-up eachother; you just can't have them trying to exterminate eachother wholesale or blatantly acting against the interests of Limsa Lominsa.

[LiadansWhisper]

There is nothing in lore preventing internal conflict within Limsa Lominsa. You can have different pirate crews at eachother's throats and trying to one-up eachother; you just can't have them trying to exterminate eachother wholesale or blatantly acting against the interests of Limsa Lominsa.

 

^^^^^

 

This is a great point. Also, I just want to gently point out that what's boring for one person isn't necessarily boring for another.

[Sigil.9054]

Well, Seldi lives in La Noscea, and frequents Limsa. She hates the desert, and thus avoids Ul'dah unless she has work taking her there.

 

I came up with this well before I knew that Ul'dah was RP central. So if you're on Balmung, OP, feel free to look Seldi Witt up.

[Zhavi]

There is nothing in lore preventing internal conflict within Limsa Lominsa. You can have different pirate crews at eachother's throats and trying to one-up eachother; you just can't have them trying to exterminate eachother wholesale or blatantly acting against the interests of Limsa Lominsa.

 

^^^^^

 

Also, I just want to gently point out that what's boring for one person isn't necessarily boring for another.

 

Both Aya and myself (edit - and kellach, for that matter, in his style of writing) make the 'I feel' and 'in my opinion' statements enough to cover that aspect -- in my case, I just feel strongly about it. It's perfectly fine for someone else to think I'm dead wrong, but that's not going to stop me from passionately nerding out and arguing my case! I have nothing against anyone who feels mildly or strongly in the other direction (or even someone who's like 'I don't care, Limsa sucks' ... though that would make me sadpants)

 

Intaki - That's how I'm playing it, but the way I read those quests came across very much 'don't steal from other Limsans, don't kill other Limsans, don't do anything bad to any other Limsans or else you'll be dealt with definitively' -- which is what I don't like when coupled with the 'we enforce 100% of this 100% of the time'. If I completely misread it or misinterpreted it, fine. I had at least one person message me on my return to tell me 'you should probably do the rogue quests, because they contradict the rp you did prior,' which was, in part, why I felt that was indeed the correct interpretation.

 

Am I wrong? It rather seems like Aya got the same read on it that I did -- but you know, different eyes and all that.

[TheLastCandle]

Instead of joining in taking potshots at other people's chosen RP venues, I'm just going to say that if you find Gridania "watching-paint-dry" boring, you probably aren't looking at it through a very good lens. All three starting cities bring a lot to the table in terms of interesting lore.

 

With that being said, I somewhat agree that the rogues' guild's seeming omniscience (at least through the course of the job quests' story) is more a bit hokey. I don't think it's as damaging to the setting as Zhavi and Aya clearly do; it's quite plain that there still exist plenty of smugglers, slave traffickers, and ne'er-do-wells that clearly MUST escape the Rogues' notice, because if they hadn't, we wouldn't have quests involving them.

[Zhavi]

 

With that being said, I somewhat agree that the rogues' guild's seeming omniscience (at least through the course of the job quests' story) is more a bit hokey. I don't think it's as damaging to the setting as Zhavi and Aya clearly do; it's quite plain that there still exist plenty of smugglers, slave traffickers, and ne'er-do-wells that clearly MUST escape the Rogues' notice, because if they hadn't, we wouldn't have quests involving them.

 

Fair point. Maybe I'm just a teensy bit pouty, but I still just feel so disappointed in those quests. They could have done so much to clarify and add to what we already had there, and instead I feel like it was written so that Limsa justified the existence of how special and awesome the rogue's guild is, while cutting down a lot of the stuff that was hinted at.

 

...maybe I'm throwing a little bit of a tantrum. But I was/am so disappointed! I guess that's why I keep whining about it and feel so strongly (especially in this thread) -- I did try to build more public Limsa rp back before rl stuff made me have to majorly cut back (which is when I discovered that there is plenty of rp there -- it's just mostly hidden or private/LS/FC oriented), and because of that it felt like the rogue stuff cut the knees out from the specific area of Limsa that I was most personally interested in and had built on with a number of other rpers.

[C'kayah Polaali]

Honestly, though, I don't think it's the setting that makes Ul'dah the RP hub it is. Sure there's an interesting back story, and it's only developed as the expansions have come out. But in the ARR timeframe (2.0, 2.1), you could easily make the argument that Limsa was as interesting as Ul'dah. Rogues hadn't come out, so the backstory presented much more of an uneasy coalition of pirates in the city. Yet Ul'dah was still the RP hub.

 

I'd argue that what made Ul'dah the RP hub was simply that a vast number of RPers chose to do so. Enough people RP in Ul'dah that it's simply the easy choice for other RPers who are looking for a fun place to RP. Which sounds like a pat answer, but it's really not.

 

If you'd like to develop another city to be an RP hub, then do so. It will not be easy. You'll have to organize events and persuade people to engage in open RP there, but if you can get enough people to consistently do this, then there will be another RP hub.

 

I do know that, as a primarily Ul'dah- and Thanalan-based RPer, I'm less likely to want to help do this if my choice of where to RP is being disparaged. Just saying.

[Melkire]

Ishgard will probably end up being a secondary RP hub. I highly doubt that it or any Heavensward areas will end up overtaking the current primary RP hub, though, if only because the content is gated by 2.55 MSQ completion.

[Tortles]

It's not very constructive to start off with saying a location sucks. Everyone is going to have their preferred locations for different reasons.

 

I would like to see RP venture more out of Ul'dah myself. It's my favorite city, but it would be nice to see others expand a bit, especially if your characters aren't associated with or have no reason to be in Ul'dah. It would be nice if Gridania and Limsa Lominsa expanded so that the Quicksand wouldn't be so congested. I'd also like to see RP extend to other locations throughout the world for the sake of diversity. Some notable places I like:

 

• The Gold Saucer
  
• Camp Bronze Lake
  
• The Bismark in Limsa Lominsa
  
• Costa Del Sol
  

I appreciate some of the regular events that make use of spaces out of the cities (Like the Grindstone tournament), and hope to see more.

[Aya]

^^^^^

 

This is a great point. Also, I just want to gently point out that what's boring for one person isn't necessarily boring for another.

Mhmmm! I made sure to say "in my opinion" since I fully understand this! And its not even for one person to another person, sometimes even the same person changes their feelings on this over time!  I originally liked Gridania the most, and found it most interesting - I still love the aesthetic, but other than that its not really the most exciting to me any more :-]

 

And that's really a terrific thing, they've provided a variety of settings in Eorzea that suit different moods and sorts of roleplay.

 

(That was also a tongue-in-cheek comment! Just enough hint of truth for it to sting though, hmmm? )

[Kellach Woods]

Intaki  - That's how I'm playing it, but the way I read those quests came across very much 'don't steal from other Limsans, don't kill other Limsans, don't do anything bad to any other Limsans or else you'll be dealt with definitively' -- which is what I don't like when coupled with the 'we enforce 100% of this 100% of the time'.  If I completely misread it or misinterpreted it, fine.  I had at least one person message me on my return to tell me 'you should probably do the rogue quests, because they contradict the rp you did prior,' which was, in part, why I felt that was indeed the correct interpretation.

 

From the quests, the Rogues' Guild operates strictly on reputation. If they have wind of something they'll act but they aren't exactly a large organization. Chances are that in terms of people who'll act (aka actually go through the shadows to do stuff) are few and far between. They just have a large information network.

 

Their goal is to dissuade people from actually acting out rather than punishing others because they know fully well they can't be everywhere at every time and from what I understand, it works... somewhat. Same way the Yellowjackets/Maelstrom hasn't stamped out all crime forever.

 

Besides, with the Executioners' Blades still around and backing upstart groups to start shit, you have your source of conflict there.

 

* * *

 

To me, Ul'dah is boring, if I wanted to see rich dudes shitting on poor folks I'd just saunter on downtown IRL.

 

To me, Gridania is boring - because absolutely nothing happens there in both MSQ and actual happenings. Like seriously when your worst troubles are a bunch of birdmen without wings, salad and poachers you don't have problems.

 

To me, Ishgard is boring - I mean sure if you worship Halone and like freezing temperatures.

 

So, y'know what, let's all relocate to Idyllshire - Gobbiefriends bestfriends.

[Seriphyn]

Geez, I mean, I'm a total Ul'dahn fanboy and all, but I was absolutely stoked for Heavensward even if I did not have the same bias towards Ishgard. I appreciate all of Final Fantasy XIV and Eorzea, and was utterly swept away by the story even if it had nothing to do with any of my roleplay. That trailer with badass dragoons? Cool! I don't even roleplay a dragoon and it was still awesome. The story of Dragons versus Man had me in tears many times.

 

Learning little factoids about Gridania and Limsa Lominsa, too, even if I am not interested in them as much I still absorb and appreciate. It's a lovely world; I just reckon we should laud all of it.

[LiadansWhisper]

 

 

(That was also a tongue-in-cheek comment! Just enough hint of truth for it to sting though, hmmm? )

 

I understood you right until this part.  I'm not really sure what you were getting at, but I don't think that was well done of you at all.  It's coming across as rather snide, but I'm going to assume that I'm just magically misreading it.

[TheLastCandle]

 

 

(That was also a tongue-in-cheek comment! Just enough hint of truth for it to sting though, hmmm? )

 

I understood you right until this part.  I'm not really sure what you were getting at, but I don't think that was well done of you at all.  It's coming across as rather snide, but I'm going to assume that I'm just magically misreading it.

 

 

You can't handle the truth, Lia.

 

 

And yes, Ishgard is great. I'm looking forward to Yvelont's story allowing him to come home soon. I've observed a great number of people roleplaying in and around the city, which is very promising.

[Kellach Woods]

also we've had this conversation before.

 

it turns out the people who want to RP in these cities are already RPing in these cities. They just happen to not be on the RPC much for the most part. Probably because practically everyone here RPs in Ul'dah and will take it as a personal affront if you don't like the place.

 

I personally don't care, I'll RP anywhere, but seriously I don't think I've seen that much defensive stance over a fictional city in RP since people were being Undead apologists way back in Vanilla WoW.

[Gegenji]

Probably because practically everyone here RPs in Ul'dah and will take it as a personal affront if you don't like the place.

 

I personally don't care, I'll RP anywhere, but seriously I don't think I've seen that much defensive stance over a fictional city in RP since people were being Undead apologists way back in Vanilla WoW.

 

Is this bit really necessary? It seems unnecessarily harsh and unneeded. Especially since it seems the general consensus isn't that disliking Ul'dah is some big personal affront. In fact, there has been quite some discussion about the pros and cons of Limsa Lominsa taking place. Not to mention the general consensus seems to be as you said earlier in your post - that there are people RPing in Limsa and Gridania (and now Ishgard). Whether or not they frequent the RPC is an irrelevant point - it's a matter of them being there and hopefully available to RP with.

 

And I personally see it less of a "defensive stance" than providing my opinion to what sounded originally like a generally broad statement that Ul'dah and the areas around it are categorically the worst places to have RP in Eorzea. I feel that it is not. Is that being super-defense about Ul'dah? :?

[BumblingSeaBiscuit]

-quietly and unhelpfully plugs that many of the Midnight Pearl roleplay in Limsa-

People can poke at us for RP if they'd like! Most of our characters don't bite.

[Arik]

I and the little crew that I run with have mostly been playing in the La Noscea and Limsa area. Not because it's "the most interesting" location, but because it is the most conducive to the characters' stories and Ul'dah is the last place at least 2-3 of them would be caught right now. (All for IC reasons.)

 

That said, I can see a ton of potential for Ul'dah RP. I've been there a couple times myself IC, and I think it'd be a shame if folks were only looking at the Quicksand as a venue. 

 

I've got to agree with the others though-- If you want to see RP in other locations, then make it happen. A couple weeks ago, we picked a remote area as a sort of camping "headquarters" for the group. When we first started RPing in that village, there was no one ever there ICly, though we'd see lots of people with RP tags come and go, stop and watch us for a bit, and then leave. We virtually always RP in the open, because it's our policy to welcome outsiders should they want to join.

 

Within a few days, we'd log in to RP around said area and-- lo and behold-- we started encountering new groups popping up there, and now we've even had some fun, random RPs with strangers as a result. There's no way to tell if it was just a coincidence, of course, but we can't help but smile and hope that we were in some way responsible for encouraging RP in that area.

 

"Be the change you want to see in the world" -- Gandhi obviously meant something much more significant than a digital fantasy world, but hey, it can apply to just about anything in life. vuv