Thoughts On Sad RP

[Laike]

Bored at work and thought I'd bring up one of my favorite rp related questions for people to think on.

 

What do you think of sad rp?

 

Personally I love drama, I love a good bittersweet story. However, not everyone does. A lot of people I know always have an out for their character. They may go through bad paths but there seems to be a light at the end of the tunnel. But sometimes, rarely, I run into people who embrace the melancholy side of things and really leave stories on sad notes. A few examples:

 

- A person bases their entire backstory on trying to protect someone they love. In the end, they fail and the person they loved is killed.

 

- A man, separated from his family returns to find his wife happily remarried with no intent to see him back.

 

- A soldier falls into depression after his village is destroyed while under his protection. He meets many people who try to turn his life around, who genuinely care. However, no amount of support stops him from taking his own life out of guilt.

 

The last one is very similar to a story I played once. I actually really upset a good rp friend of mine because they felt helpless to change the story. In a way, they felt like their time investment in the story was just thrown away. I'm not saying I agree with this, but I also don't believe it's without merit. People become attached, and many people rp to get away from sadness and depression. So what do you believe the proper way to approach a sad story is?

 

Is it polite to warn someone it might not be happy in the end?

 

Is it best just to tell the story and what happens happens?

 

I'd like to hear some thoughts on this subject if anyone has any! Thanks!

[Ignacius]

Long ago, I GMed an open RP about a fantasy town called Volins.  I probably had 15-20 people somewhat regularly playing in a completely custom world.  Sort of The Wire before there was The Wire, it was about the way villains worked together.  We essentially played criminals working for a criminal syndicate against a church organization and a helpless police force.

 

It ended with a massive battle at the church after a fiery speech about war from the leader.  However, it was a feint.  The highest echelon of the criminal organization basically left their organization to die, using it as a distraction to grab power in the larger worldwide syndicate.  Lots of people's characters died.  Many felt betrayed.  The fiancee of the character I played, a high ranking character, suddenly found herself allowing my character to kill her to escape the gang pressure and a horrible situation so that my character could live.  And he went back to working with his boss because there was no way out.

 

I was told that several of the thread stories were the saddest my players have ever experienced, even this long on.  And that last scene, TangentRomanaw.  Probably two years worth of character development led to that night.

 

It was brutal.  Also one of the best RPs I've ever done.  We aren't always defined by good guys winning.  "Good guys" sometimes doesn't mean very much.

[Hali]

I can only sum up my thoughts on this topic with a comic I see and love on tumblr very frequently:

 

 

it me doe

 

It's coming, Dail'a. Corelyn had hers, and there will be more for you both. Just you wait. The whole world will come tumbling down. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahahaha... h ahaag ag gah ahgh aha... *cough*

[Laike]

That is me. You just described me in comic form.

 

I really am a terrible person, don't rp with me

[ɴᴘᴄ]

Well, I am definitely in agreement that these arcs have value. The scenarios you describe definitely seem consistent with the seedy underbelly of Eorzea that we glimpse in some sidequests and incidental text, so there is certainly a place for them.

 

It can be tricky to RP I suppose, though in all honesty I don't believe I've done an arc that had such a dismal finish. Personally I am more disposed to the 'whatever happens, happens' camp, but with a little research people can find out whether or not one is into heavy RP. That alone should act as a disclaimer of a sort, help people to build the arcs they want with who they want, if that's how they like to do it.

 

Great growth often comes from failure. Disappointment is a natural outflow from having expectations or goals, and provides characters with learning experiences. For players who want to risk those times of misfortune, I think the upshot could be very satisfying.

[Rosekitten]

Personally I like to see where a story will go, maybe some minor planning bits here and there. Though I also rp very open ended. Though I tend to be a bit cold hearted towards most of my oc's.. they lose a heck of a lot and gain very little in return. 

 

As far as how to tell other people not as open to such a ending or story in general.. might be wise to just warn them ahead of time. Some really are just seeking that romance and happy story book ending. 

 

I myself would rather the character end up with a few scars that shape who they are and see where things go from there.

[Virella]

In truth I prefer tragic story lines over happy ones! So you are not the only one for sure

[Ehzo'ir Tyaka]

 

 

OH MY GOD THIS! So much this!

 

I think that only once in a while do I not have a character that has a tragic thing that has happened to them.

 

[Warren Castille]

For my money, strength of character is best displayed under duress.

[Laike]

Good to know so many people share my attraction to the OMG DRAMAS! (The good dramas, the ic dramas at least.)

 

This is good...

 

This is very good.....

[Miss Gaz]

I can only sum up my thoughts on this topic with a comic I see and love on tumblr very frequently:

 

 

it me doe

 

It's coming, Dail'a. Corelyn had hers, and there will be more for you both. Just you wait. The whole world will come tumbling down. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahahaha... h ahaag ag gah ahgh aha... *cough*

This is me I am very mean to my characters

[Unnamed Mercenary]

Personally, I think there's a time and place for Sad RP. It certainly can't be all the time, as that would diminish the feelings associated with it.

 

Now, there's got to be a balance to it, as with scenes are good/bad/whatever, just like life. My views on RP in general is that they should be as varied as life. But here's the catch, not everyone is looking for that or feels the same way. I have seen people who have consistently wanted to be surrounded by happy-only things. The same way I've seen people who have gotten into these enormous spirals of "but then it gets worse!" moments that seem to never end. Happy things are happy because we have unhappy events to balance them. Sad things are sad because the situation had been something else beforehand.

 

--

 

Now, the questions.

 

So what do you believe the proper way to approach a sad story is?

 

It depends on the people you're RPing with. If it's a group of people you trust, or perhaps a group of people you've planned a story with, they may be more open to having an ending that isn't just simply "a happy ending". Perhaps it's bittersweet, sad, or downright awful.

 

Is it polite to warn someone it might not be happy in the end?

 

I personally like to warn people if I think they might be affected by a bad ending. While having happy endings 100% would get boring for me, if all my interactions with a given person were just about them trying to make my character feel better or my character trying to make their character feel better, I think it would make the RP go a little stale. Take it too far and someone could get frustrated that all of their effort to change/affect a situation isn't getting anywhere.

 

Is it best just to tell the story and what happens happens?

 

As cool as it is to have completely pure "organic" (as some call it) RP with no ending planned, a little OOC communication can go a long way. Now this doesn't mean I'm gonna go out and spoil all my sad/bad plot ideas with the people I'm going to RP with, but it does mean that I'll let them know if there's something they simply cannot change about my character, rather than watching them potentially struggle and try without saying anything.

 

If it's not going to happen, and it looks like a pattern where the person keeps trying, letting them in on it can be helpful. Maybe they'll look at the reasons the character is sad to work on those, instead of endless "cheering up" RP. Or perhaps it'll drive character development with a newfound conflict.

[Verad]

Best used sparingly.

[Oli!]

Lots of people like it, I usually don't. What I've seen described in the OP as Melancholy seems more along the lines of Tragedy to me. I can do a Melancholy story, I can even do a Serious one, but Tragedy, not really my sort of something.

 

Happiness, whimsy, and misadventures are my favorite things.

 

It's also worth noting that all the scenarios mentioned in the OP can be done with touches of happiness and whimsy as well. We call that approach Dark Humor.

 

So it's really more complicated than put forth anyway, I believe.

[Laike]

Personally, I think there's a time and place for Sad RP. It certainly can't be all the time, as that would diminish the feelings associated with it.

 

Now, there's got to be a balance to it, as with scenes are good/bad/whatever, just like life. My views on RP in general is that they should be as varied as life. But here's the catch, not everyone is looking for that or feels the same way. I have seen people who have consistently wanted to be surrounded by happy-only things. The same way I've seen people who have gotten into these enormous spirals of "but then it gets worse!" moments that seem to never end. Happy things are happy because we have unhappy events to balance them. Sad things are sad because the situation had been something else beforehand.

 

--

 

Now, the questions.

 

So what do you believe the proper way to approach a sad story is?

 

It depends on the people you're RPing with. If it's a group of people you trust, or perhaps a group of people you've planned a story with, they may be more open to having an ending that isn't just simply "a happy ending". Perhaps it's bittersweet, sad, or downright awful.

 

Is it polite to warn someone it might not be happy in the end?

 

I personally like to warn people if I think they might be affected by a bad ending. While having happy endings 100% would get boring for me, if all my interactions with a given person were just about them trying to make my character feel better or my character trying to make their character feel better, I think it would make the RP go a little stale. Take it too far and someone could get frustrated that all of their effort to change/affect a situation isn't getting anywhere.

 

Is it best just to tell the story and what happens happens?

 

As cool as it is to have completely pure "organic" (as some call it) RP with no ending planned, a little OOC communication can go a long way. Now this doesn't mean I'm gonna go out and spoil all my sad/bad plot ideas with the people I'm going to RP with, but it does mean that I'll let them know if there's something they simply cannot change about my character, rather than watching them potentially struggle and try without saying anything.

 

If it's not going to happen, and it looks like a pattern where the person keeps trying, letting them in on it can be helpful. Maybe they'll look at the reasons the character is sad to work on those, instead of endless "cheering up" RP. Or perhaps it'll drive character development with a newfound conflict.

I think this is a really interesting point. There is a fine line between having a sad story, and a character who is just constantly 'woe is me'. Laike is in a bad circumstance, but the struggle I tried to make with him is whether or not his innocence and sunshine will degrade in the face of trouble. So while the story around him might be extremely sad, it doesn't mean that every scene with him is him being sad.

 

I think that if you have a character that is only ever sad, and there is no evolution or change.. it might not be the best rp for those around them. I guess it's a balance in that respect.

[Hali]

Personally, I think there's a time and place for Sad RP. It certainly can't be all the time, as that would diminish the feelings associated with it.

 

Now, there's got to be a balance to it, as with scenes are good/bad/whatever, just like life. My views on RP in general is that they should be as varied as life. But here's the catch, not everyone is looking for that or feels the same way. I have seen people who have consistently wanted to be surrounded by happy-only things. The same way I've seen people who have gotten into these enormous spirals of "but then it gets worse!" moments that seem to never end. Happy things are happy because we have unhappy events to balance them. Sad things are sad because the situation had been something else beforehand.

 

--

 

Now, the questions.

 

So what do you believe the proper way to approach a sad story is?

 

It depends on the people you're RPing with. If it's a group of people you trust, or perhaps a group of people you've planned a story with, they may be more open to having an ending that isn't just simply "a happy ending". Perhaps it's bittersweet, sad, or downright awful.

 

Is it polite to warn someone it might not be happy in the end?

 

I personally like to warn people if I think they might be affected by a bad ending. While having happy endings 100% would get boring for me, if all my interactions with a given person were just about them trying to make my character feel better or my character trying to make their character feel better, I think it would make the RP go a little stale. Take it too far and someone could get frustrated that all of their effort to change/affect a situation isn't getting anywhere.

 

Is it best just to tell the story and what happens happens?

 

As cool as it is to have completely pure "organic" (as some call it) RP with no ending planned, a little OOC communication can go a long way. Now this doesn't mean I'm gonna go out and spoil all my sad/bad plot ideas with the people I'm going to RP with, but it does mean that I'll let them know if there's something they simply cannot change about my character, rather than watching them potentially struggle and try without saying anything.

 

If it's not going to happen, and it looks like a pattern where the person keeps trying, letting them in on it can be helpful. Maybe they'll look at the reasons the character is sad to work on those, instead of endless "cheering up" RP. Or perhaps it'll drive character development with a newfound conflict.

I think this is a really interesting point. There is a fine line between having a sad story, and a character who is just constantly 'woe is me'. Laike is in a bad circumstance, but the struggle I tried to make with him is whether or not his innocence and sunshine will degrade in the face of trouble. So while the story around him might be extremely sad, it doesn't mean that every scene with him is him being sad.

 

I think that if you have a character that is only ever sad, and there is no evolution or change.. it might not be the best rp for those around them. I guess it's a balance in that respect.

 

Alllll of this! Joking aside, I embrace and thoroughly love all aspects of RP, and love light-hearted, funny stuff especially (I have a CSI: Miami macro for Dail'a where he puts his sunglasses on while he makes a pun and use it frequently).

 

However, life, especially in war-torn, dangerous worlds, are not always happy-go-lucky and drama-free. So a modicum of balance is always the best thing to have.

 

Corelyn in WoW is full-on broken bird most of the time because of an overabundance of tragedy she just could not escape (of course, I don't mind - I take whatever story comes and roll with it as it happens. More fun that way), so Corelyn in FF has been a breath of fresh air most days.

 

But yes, I do still love sad RP. When I want to give a character a real reason to push themselves harder than they ever would have before, I present them with The Bad Thing: That one of few things that would get under even the most stoic or easy-going character's skin and really drive the point home.

 

Another reason for it could simply be to advance a story. Not all stories are good and happy. Some just do not go in the direct one would expect, either. Sometimes, this includes the world just crumbling.

 

That all said, though... I am an evil little jerkbag and love to watch my characters suffer just as much as I love to see them happy.

[FreelanceWizard]

I've a long history of beating up my characters. I played a character in CoH who I sorely tested; she was committed thoroughly to a positive world view, and that naivete constantly got her punished.

 

I like to think of a character's story like a great cocktail. It has a basic theme, but it's balanced. You can have a lot of sweetness, but you also need some bitterness and saltiness to keep it from rotting your teeth out. So, even in games where I take a generally positive, hopeful view in the story -- such as XIV -- I add dashes of sadness. It keeps things interesting and realistic, and as even the game says, there is no light with darkness. Contrast is necessary.

 

That aside, though, in organic RP, I don't worry too much about whether the story is too light or too dark. I do what makes sense ICly and let the chips fall where they may. Since my character is generally a positive person, that tends to make stories turn out positively, but even L'yhta has dark moments. Her lack of self-confidence comes out now and then, she sometimes drinks herself into a stupor over sadness at friends lost, and her temper has been known to cause significant problems.

 

So, on the balance, I try to strike a balance. Going too far in any direction spoils the story for me, in much the same way I wouldn't want to drink a whole glass of Angostura bitters.

[Laike]

 

 

That all said, though... I am an evil little jerkbag and love to watch my characters suffer just as much as I love to see them happy.

 

 

To be fair. It really is their fault for being born from our twisted minds.

[Aaron]

I'm emo.

 

My entire life's a tragedy. Just typing this I hear linkin park slowly whispering in my ear.

[Masaki Moui]

In my opinion tragedy requires a catharsis to be satisfying, and to pull off a tragedy well all the players generally have to feel as if 'it was worth it.' A story doesn't have to have a happy ending - it has to have a satisfying ending. A recent, post-modern attempt at classic tragedy as a modern film was obviously Gladiator. There was nothing happy about that movie and yet I'd argue that the ending was incredibly satisfying and that the film crew did a great job in trying to capture that aspect of catharsis that is so important in a good tragedy. If you don't have a catharsis, if you don't feel it was worth it, then you'll end up feeling betrayed and annoyed with stories that lead you to your doom. And that's a huge weight to carry around as a GM, as a pocket-GM for your own characters, etc. Just as an acting troupe gets a taste of the script before they agree to play it, whenever I start up a tragedy, I like to give the players an understanding of the way things will go. This is what I see as the first step necessary to building the kind of savage trust level needed to go through a brutal storyline. Can the players trust you to make it worth it for them? Whew, what a question!

[Addison]

Best used sparingly.

 

Pretty much sums up my feelings on it. One of my biggest guilty pleasure TV shows is Grey's Anatomy, and every season something absolutely dreadful happens to the main characters.

 

Meredith Grey drowned (and was revived), been in a plane crash (and survived), lost her half sister in said plane crash, miscarried a child after being held at gun point, witnessed her husband getting shot, had to perform surgery on her best friends husband who was shot while her best friend performed surgery on her husband, had to bury her mother after learning her mother had an affair with her boss years ago, found out she has another half sister from said affair, had to find out her husband walked out on his previous marriage and she was the rebound girl, then had to deal with working with the guy while he chose to be with his first wife for like 1 season before he finally chose her, treated a John Doe that got hit by a bus that turned out to be one of her best friends, tried to adopt a child and had it almost denied, had to deal with her best friend moving to Switzerland and ultimately lost contact. And last season? Her husband died after being hit by a car. And she was pregnant with their third child.

 

 

Soooo it's kind of hard to feel sympathy for someone who constantly has tragic stuff happen to them. So sparingly is probably my ideal way to go.

[Oran]

As in all things there is a balance to it. For a lot of RP'ers Drama is the life blood and usually fuels the conflicts of their stories and this can lead to some amazing moments where a character becomes more then the player ever thought they'd be or they grow closer to the people they've been telling these stories with. In my experience a lot of these stories end on happier notes even if the story arcs themselves were very dark and sad.

 

I've had the great pleasure of being part of a few long arcs where the protagonists were dogged at every turn and the few victories to be had were narrow. For me these had a great deal of excitement and engagement during the events, and then between the events we had a lot of humorous moments and time to digest what all was happening in the events. And then the conclusions were sometimes happy, sometimes sad.

 

At the beginning of an arc I was part of not to long ago my character, the 'father' figure of the group, died at the outset and it lent an amazing sense of weight to the proceeding RP. The arc centered around a terrorist whom after a few more horrific events the group had found and killed, leaving a very powerful sort of bittersweet ending.

 

Of course to have those big impactful events there has to be a balance, because if all we had were those twists and turns it would become the norm, and to make it impactful again we would have to do something even more  extreme.

 

Though the above is admittedly in a preformed group of people, we all knew the general direction things would go. The OOC communication to pull off this sort of thing is very important, because while you don't have to give a play by play version of the arc people knowing that it's going towards the dramatic I have always found to be polite and help things go more smoothly.

[Klynzahr]

Like several others have already said, I find RP gets very stale if the good guys always win. Without a certain amount of honest failure, conflict, and the occasional tragedy all those happy RP moments would quickly grow stale.

 

However the danger of overindulging in these tragic scenarios arises when characters begin using them as a means to garner attention. Good tragedy, like good comedy, can only be played properly with a good balance of sad and happy moments. In a story line that is specifically intended to have a dark end, the lighthearted moments are actually more important than they would be in a comic tale.

 

I like to use two examples from my days in Wow....

 

- The first concerned a very well portrayed schizophrenic character and his drug-addict friend. Both were talented RPers, who stuck to their characters flaws religiously. However they quickly became estranged from other RPers, because they both lacked balance.

 

The addict was starving herself for drugs, constantly injured, and never seemed to have a shred of luck. She refused every IC effort to help her, with insults or indifference, that drove the most persistent characters away. The schizophrenic was worse, because every time a character tried to aid him, his player would twist their efforts to send him down an even darker path.

 

Then they both complained OOC that no one ever RPed with them and they felt excluded from the larger community.  

 

 

- The second concerned a favorite character of mine, who began life as a happy-go-lucky young paladin in training. She had a difficult backstory and her life's ambition was to become a light-wielding hero like her mother. After a few months of RP, she faced her first big baddie and had those dreams entirely crushed.

 

   Simply put she broke her skull and suffered a traumatic brain injury. She lost the ability to speak coherently and her left side was almost completely paralyzed. Perhaps the saddest thing of all was that she retained all of her memories and ruined dreams.

 

   Now many healers tried to 'fix' her over the course of the next few years and each of them ultimately failed. However this constant failure was balanced by many amusing moments and small victories. I allowed her to form true relationships, rather than relying on other characters to constantly save her or feel sorry for her. She had friends, enemies, challenges and small victories. She fell in love, with a character from another race who had a drastically different life span and eventually broke both of their hearts by turning him down.

 

    Her story was never one that could end happily, but she was a full character with her own strengths. This allowed for a large variety of RP that did not revolve around her tragic circumstances, and made them that much more potent.

 

 

I think that the key to playing a tragic character well lies in never allowing them to know that they are tragic. Instead of wearing out your fellow RPers with a constant stream of bad luck, failures, and self-pity, try building up some success and connections before allowing tragedy to strike them down. It will be more rewarding in the long run.

8-)

 

Finally there are a few instances, where you should definitely warn your fellow RPers. One is the case where a well meaning character is devoting themselves to "fixing the unfixable" or preventing the unavoidable. Many players will enjoy the chance to have their own character fail along with yours, but others will just be frustrated and angry.

 

The other important thing to remember is that stories involving things like suicide, rape, or mental illness can be very painful for some players to see or participate in. You should always be up front when setting out to tell these stories, to avoid unintentionally hurting other players.

 

So bring on the tragedy, keep it balanced, and don't forget to communicate.

 

/end rambles

[Laike]

 

However the danger of overindulging in these tragic scenarios arises when characters begin using them as a means to garner attention. Good tragedy, like good comedy, can only be played properly with a good balance of sad and happy moments. In a story line that is specifically intended to have a dark end, the lighthearted moments are actually more important than they would be in a comic tale.

 

 

This really is an important point. So many times I've seen people lose the spotlight and suddenly 'OMG look at this tragedy that happened to me, pay attention!'

 

Tragedy is not a device to get people to pay attention to you.

 

The world is a difficult place and everyone has personal tragedies. In fact, one of my favorite 'tropes' in a lot of my characters is them coming to the realization that their suffering is not special... isn't different. It's common. It's the shared experience of many.

 

Another thing that was mentioned is the 'unfixable' That always bothered me. I don't want to throw out insults or make people believe they are 'doing it wrong' because I don't see things that way. But... when your character complains about being poor, having no food and you refuse someone willing to feed you? It makes no sense. I get you built your character to tell a story, but a large part of RP is being in a world you can't control. If my character is starving and is offered food he'd damned well take it. If my character is in trouble with a gang and is offered the coin out of it... he'll take it. He'd be weary, but he'd take it.

 

I think instead of holding on to pre-defined notions of how a character would go, people should think about how the opportunities presented to them from others can shape the story and bring it in a new direction. Perhaps by taking coin to pay off debts, the character instead decides to use it to gamble, feeding their addiction and getting them in further trouble. This gives the player who tries to help an 'in' into their rp, but also allows the first character to continue the path they wanted to take. Things like that.

[Elaris]

I personally love it, if you can tell a great story that adds many elements I would love to go down for the ride personally. It is why I keep to the many alts route, I can safely pick and choose how their stories progress with others because I'm guilty of the, " I want none of my characters to have a happy ending, but rather a satisfying one. " Which means anything is possible for them, including death. Be wary of the people you RP with regularly too, many choose to only stick to lighthearted stuff and that is fine.

 

Of course I agree with many people here when they mention that it should be used sparingly, if bad things happen too often it kinda takes away from the character. Turns the character into a joke really, I have seen it happen before actually. Some OOC plotting and details is okay to leak also, especially when it comes to the death of a character towards the end.  I had a friend kill off his character, he did not tell anyone that he was going to do this. His IC wife and a few friends were not pleased with the outcome, in fact it really pissed the few in his circle off so some communication can really go a long way. Anyways, Keep the balance and watch your character involve or fall apart.

:thumbsup: