Astrologian card issue.

[Sierra Nazrin]

Hiya! Sierra here with some.. sad humor.

 

Alright so, lets.. talk about something here, RNG is nice to use for a healer at times ill give you that. However, i seem to see alot of people having issues pulling the "Balance" card from their deck. 

 

oddly enough, i seem to have the opposite issue. every single card i draw is the "Balance" card and nothing more, either its a stroke of luck or i am cursed for never seeming to be able to draw the card required to get the AOE buff.

 

I think SE needs to uh.. Balance, the card deck for the astrologian.

[ZoktaiKhor]

New RP character The AST that can never draw anything but balance.

[Sierra Nazrin]

New RP character The AST that can never draw anything but balance.

Lol best character idea ever.

[LiadansWhisper]

I have a habit of drawing nothing but Spire or nothing but Ewer repeatedly. :dodgy:

[Ninina Nina]

ussCHoQttyQ

 

Only drawing The Balance, you say?

[Ilwe'ran]

More than an issue with the cards themselves, I have an issue with shuffle to the point I think they should change the action help for this :

 

Shuffle : "Return the currently drawn arcanum to your deck and draw the same."

[LiadansWhisper]

More than an issue with the cards themselves, I have an issue with shuffle to the point I think they should change the action help for this :

 

Shuffle : "Return the currently drawn arcanum to your deck and draw the same."

 

YES.  That's what it does at least 75-80% of the time for me.  It's SO frustrating.

[Glacirus]

I get the same issues where I always seem to draw Spear or Spire, at times where no one needs or can even use them. Spear especially...we don't need cooldown reduction that often game, plz gimme Bole or something.

 

Shuffle is a whole different can of worms I won't even touch...I'd rather toss a card on someone who doesn't necessarily need it than trigger another cooldown for the same/equally useless card.

[Gegenji]

More than an issue with the cards themselves, I have an issue with shuffle to the point I think they should change the action help for this :

 

Shuffle : "Return the currently drawn arcanum to your deck and draw the same."

 

YES.  That's what it does at least 75-80% of the time for me.  It's SO frustrating.

 

Seriously. I think I've forgotten half the time it's there because I'll Shuffle away a card I don't need for the exact same card. Thanks for that, SE. My RNG luck is bad enough with crafting, let's just apply that entirely to a mechanic of a class.

 

... In all seriousness, though, I have a lot of fun with the Astrologian. But I should probably figure out what cards should go on who at some point. I mean, most are obvious enough to figure out - Bole, Ewer, Spire, Balance - but the Arrow and Spear? I usually just end up Royal Roading or Shuffling them for something I know how to use. :blush:

[ShoggMommy]

I thought they worked on this with one of the former patches, is it still RNGing badly? I don't really play AST; but I have friends who do. This is disappointing to hear if they've said they fixed it and it not being really fixed.

[Sierra Nazrin]

I thought they worked on this with one of the former patches, is it still RNGing badly? I don't really play AST; but I have friends who do. This is disappointing to hear if they've said they fixed it and it not being really fixed.

Well yeah.. RNG involved in a healer class is a bit of a pain, there are other ways it could have been done. though as i stated, some RNG is fine. just this personally feels rediculas.

[ShoggMommy]

I thought they worked on this with one of the former patches, is it still RNGing badly? I don't really play AST; but I have friends who do. This is disappointing to hear if they've said they fixed it and it not being really fixed.

Well yeah.. RNG involved in a healer class is a bit of a pain, there are other ways it could have been done. though as i stated, some RNG is fine. just this personally feels rediculas.

 

That's not... really what I asked? I main a WHM. I'm aware of RNG with healing classes as a whole.

What I was asking was; if the RNG was still pretty wonky on AST, as live-letters and patches were mentioned to have helped some; in comparison to what the RNG problems were before.

[Aris]

More than an issue with the cards themselves, I have an issue with shuffle to the point I think they should change the action help for this :

 

Shuffle : "Return the currently drawn arcanum to your deck and draw the same."

 

YES.  That's what it does at least 75-80% of the time for me.  It's SO frustrating.

 

Seriously. I think I've forgotten half the time it's there because I'll Shuffle away a card I don't need for the exact same card. Thanks for that, SE. My RNG luck is bad enough with crafting, let's just apply that entirely to a mechanic of a class.

 

... In all seriousness, though, I have a lot of fun with the Astrologian. But I should probably figure out what cards should go on who at some point. I mean, most are obvious enough to figure out - Bole, Ewer, Spire, Balance - but the Arrow and Spear? I usually just end up Royal Roading or Shuffling them for something I know how to use. :blush:

 

Spear reduces ability cooldowns, and you need to use it before an ability is used for it to be under effect of the card. I think pretty much all classes benefit from it, but it's difficult to use to maximum effect in a PUG (but then again I don't really pay attention to what others are doing in dungeons if things are going well ). It could be especially effective in raiding though.

Some examples of using it would be: giving it to a BRD before they pop their buffs, a PLD before Hallowed Ground, or saving it for yourself for Essential Dignity, Lightspeed, Luminiferous Aether, etc.

 

Arrow increases skill, spell and auto attack speed, so best on DPS. I've read lots of different arguements on why you should give it to certain classes, so can't be any more specific right now. :blush: As a caster it's awesome on speed runs, but then it seems like all classes have quite good AOE output now so I guess you can't go wrong? ^^;

[Berrod Armstrong]

I dunno...personally I've never found anything wrong with the RNG part of AST. It's...random...even if the same card appears several times or not at all. 

 

Maybe I'm just different, but my mindset is something like this: Never depend on a gamble. Don't expect anything, just treat the cards like a nifty bonus that may or may not come in handy at a given moment. The Utility is in the cards, but my heals are what I'm here for.

 

That way I don't get frustrated or anything, It's like 'Oh! The Bole! Neat. Handy!', 'Ah...three ewers in a row? Well I suppose the BLM/DRK/whatever or myself can go ham. Neat.'

 

'Ooh the heals are so pretty.'

 

Perhaps I'm just really easy to please lol.

[Sierra Nazrin]

I thought they worked on this with one of the former patches, is it still RNGing badly? I don't really play AST; but I have friends who do. This is disappointing to hear if they've said they fixed it and it not being really fixed.

Well yeah.. RNG involved in a healer class is a bit of a pain, there are other ways it could have been done. though as i stated, some RNG is fine. just this personally feels rediculas.

 

That's not... really what I asked? I main a WHM. I'm aware of RNG with healing classes as a whole.

What I was asking was; if the RNG was still pretty wonky on AST, as live-letters and patches were mentioned to have helped some; in comparison to what the RNG problems were before.

I guess i indirectly answered that, to take the statement i had put there and give a direct answer it would be. Yes, Astrologian cards are still unbalanced.

[Warren Castille]

In the spirit of this thread, can we get SE to change Sheltron's tooltip to accurately reflect what it does now? It claims to be some nonsense about automatically blocking something, when what it really does it FORCE YOU TO DODGE EVERY SINGLE ATTACK BECAUSE WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO PACIFY THINGS?

[Gegenji]

I think the point is that the cards are supposed to be little more than utility and a bonus, and shouldn't be what you're relying on as an AST. I will admit, though, that getting leveling queues for dungeons where I DON'T have my cards available makes me feel like a weaker CNJ/WHM - but the boosts to the healing spells has helped with that.

 

And really, since you don't "need" the cards all that much, you can instead just use those Draws to set up for a boss fight if you have Royal Road and Spread. That's what I would do in dungeons like, say, Dusk Vigil. Find a Balance to put in my Spread, then use the other cards randomly until I found a "make it an AoE" card to Royal Road. Then I just lay off the cards until the boss and we have a group-wide attack buff for the first few seconds of the fight and then use whatever cards I pull afterward as appropriate. And then repeat in prep for the next boss.

 

That or I'll just stick a refresh in my spread, Royal Road a power or time extender and throw out the next card on whoever needs it. All the cards really do is improve the situation somehow, and your performance as a healer shouldn't rely on it. If you NEED that powered-up Bole to keep your tank from dying, there might be other problems in play.

[Eliane Dufresne]

I think the point is that the cards are supposed to be little more than utility and a bonus...(snip)

 

And really, since you don't "need" the cards all that much, you can instead just use those Draws to set up for a boss fight if you have Royal Road and Spread. That's what I would do in dungeons like, say, Dusk Vigil. Find a Balance to put in my Spread, then use the other cards randomly until I found a "make it an AoE" card to Royal Road. Then I just lay off the cards until the boss and we have a group-wide attack buff for the first few seconds of the fight and then use whatever cards I pull afterward as appropriate. And then repeat in prep for the next boss.

 

That or I'll just stick a refresh in my spread, Royal Road a power or time extender and throw out the next card on whoever needs it. All the cards really do is improve the situation somehow, and your performance as a healer shouldn't rely on it. If you NEED that powered-up Bole to keep your tank from dying, there might be other problems in play.

 

 

Agreed on all points. I've been loving this class to death because of the utility it brings, but when things start getting messy the cards are the last thing on my mind. You don't NEED them to do your job, they just make your job easier sometimes.

 

That said I don't usually feel like I don't have enough control over the cards. Every once in a while the RNG decides I need nothing but Spires and Ewers when I've already burned one of those AND I have an extra sitting in my spread for emergencies, but...usually with the preparation described above you can come in strong for just about any fight and not have to worry about shuffle failing you. If all else fails, the cooldown timer on Draw is mercifully short.

 

There's a bit of strategy to it. It's fun.

[LiadansWhisper]

 

 

Agreed on all points. I've been loving this class to death because of the utility it brings, but when things start getting messy the cards are the last thing on my mind. You don't NEED them to do your job, they just make your job easier sometimes.

 

The issue with this is...what utility?

 

If you don't NEED the cards to do your job, what utility are you bringing?

 

Astrologians don't have particularly high damage, like Scholars.  And their healing is not amazeballs, like White Mages.  They don't bring very useful shields (even in Nocturnal, the shields are crap and smaller shields will refresh over larger ones), and their best tank CD is controlled by RNG. Outside of Essential Dignity, they bring no burst damage mitigation.

 

So...what other "utility" are they bringing if we're not looking at cards?

 

If we ARE looking at cards, the fact that they're totally RNG is a real issue.

[Gegenji]

So...what other "utility" are they bringing if we're not looking at cards?

 

The cards ARE part of their utility, though. Each of them can be used to either up an ally's damage output or negate some incoming damage (in the case of the Bole), and with proper prep before a boss pull you can have a good 20-30 seconds extra damage on everybody.

 

However, what I mean by them not being needed is that the class is designed so pulling a card you don't want or need doesn't "ruin" things. You pull the TP card when your tank is a Paladin or your party consists of two BRDs/NINs. You can drop that into your Spread for emergencies or burn it into Royal Road so the next card you DO use affects everyone... or you can just let it drop. And all the while your healing capability is in no way hindered from doing this since it's all off-GCD.

 

Other than that? I think they might be better at panic-healing a group than the other two classes? I mean, Lightspeed means every heal is instant cast except for the Aspected AoE and that one's still less than a second cast time.

 

And not to mention they're the only one who can fill "either" roll. They have options on whether they want a regen or a shield on their Aspected heals, and can freely switch between the two depending on both situation and party make-up. Able to mold themselves around the other healer in a raid situation and a bevvy of cards that all somehow benefit your teammates in some way sounds like utility to me.

[LiadansWhisper]

So...what other "utility" are they bringing if we're not looking at cards?

 

The cards ARE part of their utility, though. Each of them can be used to either up an ally's damage output or negate some incoming damage (in the case of the Bole), and with proper prep before a boss pull you can have a good 20-30 seconds extra damage on everybody.

 

I never said they weren't.  It's pretty clear from my post if you go back and read it again.  I'm saying, if you're ignoring cards, what other utility do they bring?

 

However, what I mean by them not being needed is that the class is designed so pulling a card you don't want or need doesn't "ruin" things. You pull the TP card when your tank is a Paladin or your party consists of two BRDs/NINs. You can drop that into your Spread for emergencies or burn it into Royal Road so the next card you DO use affects everyone... or you can just let it drop. And all the while your healing capability is in no way hindered from doing this since it's all off-GCD.

 

Kind of, sort of, since you can't draw or use cards while you're got a cast bar.  But, if it affects things so little, how useful is it really?

 

Other than that? I think they might be better at panic-healing a group than the other two classes? I mean, Lightspeed means every heal is instant cast except for the Aspected AoE and that one's still less than a second cast time.

 

Okay...and White Mages can't pull this off with Swiftcast + Medica/Medica II, Assize, Benediction, and Tetragrammaton?  And should we add Divine Seal into the mix, too?  Still better than Synastry!  And Scholars can't pull this off with 3x Lustrate + Indominability + Emergency Tactics?  At least they don't have to stand still when they put down their Sacred Soil (and White Mages don't have to stop moving or casting for Asylum), and with Deployment Tactics , your health is never gonna go down in the first place.  And not only do they have Fey Illumination but they also have Dissipation.

 

And this isn't even adding in the fact that Scholars can do truly massive damage for a healer.

 

And not to mention they're the only one who can fill "either" roll. They have options on whether they want a regen or a shield on their Aspected heals, and can freely switch between the two depending on both situation and party make-up. Able to mold themselves around the other healer in a raid situation and a bevvy of cards that all somehow benefit your teammates in some way sounds like utility to me.

 

Yeah...Astrologians can fill either role badly.  They'll never be as good at straight healing as a White Mage and they'll never be as good at straight damage mitigation as a Scholar.  Their shields don't double on crits as far as I can tell, and weaker shields can override stronger shields (the buff simply refreshes with the newer shield, it doesn't look to see which one has the most health left).  And they're somehow not as mana efficient as Scholars or White Mages, which seems bonkers to me, but there you have it.

 

Also, damage.  Astrologians don't bring the damage a Scholar brings, and even a White Mage would probably be able to do more damage under Cleric Stance than an Astrologian would.

 

So I'm just saying...the spec still needs help.  Is it better than where it was?  Oh yes, yes it is.  Is it still something that would be the first choice on cutting edge content?  Nope.  And that's a real shame, because as long as the first choice is always going to be a White Mage or a Scholar, with Astrologian occupying the spot of, "Well, if we can't get anyone else..." it's going to suck playing one competitively.

 

Edited because sometimes I type Scholar instead of Astrologian and I don't know why, but I blame my Scholar buddies. It's their fault.

[V'aleera]

I think making the redraw ability never draw the card going back in would make the function feel better to use.

[LiadansWhisper]

I think making the redraw ability never draw the card going back in would make the function feel better to use.

 

It would go a long way to minimize the RNG factor of Shuffle.  While I realize it's anecdotal, from talking to multiple AST players, there seems to be a really common issue of Shuffle pulling the same card.  It wouldn't be an issue if it was on, say, a 30 second CD, but the CD is too long for you to be pulling the same damn card.

[Berrod Armstrong]

I think making the redraw ability never draw the card going back in would make the function feel better to use.

 

It would go a long way to minimize the RNG factor of Shuffle.  While I realize it's anecdotal, from talking to multiple AST players, there seems to be a really common issue of Shuffle pulling the same card.  It wouldn't be an issue if it was on, say, a 30 second CD, but the CD is too long for you to be pulling the same damn card.

That wouldn't make it a gamble, though, and in the end that's what the AST cards are. Unknown fate, yadda yadda.

[X'raemha]

I think making the redraw ability never draw the card going back in would make the function feel better to use.

 

It would go a long way to minimize the RNG factor of Shuffle.  While I realize it's anecdotal, from talking to multiple AST players, there seems to be a really common issue of Shuffle pulling the same card.  It wouldn't be an issue if it was on, say, a 30 second CD, but the CD is too long for you to be pulling the same damn card.

That would make literally all the difference in the world.