Let's talk about organizing a tertiary RP server

[Flickering Ember]

TL;DR: I have no intentions of leaving Balmung nor am I encouraging or suggesting that current Balmung/Gilgamesh residents leave for a new RP server. I am also not planning on organizing this. I am opening discussion to see what the community thinks about a server for non-Balmung/non-Gilgamesh folks to organize on.

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By now everyone is aware of how hard it is to get into Balmung. Balmung is currently the most populated server, not just in the NA groupings but in the entire game. It's extremely common for RP servers to end up being the most populated servers in any given game though. Our community is often forced to being organized to continue to exist. 

 

Most games really only need one RP server, really. However, if it becomes popular enough, the demand for a new RP server becomes increasingly necessary. There is one in the form of Gilgamesh, or it would be if it wasn't nearly as full as Balmung is. As much as I would like to promote the sister RP server here, it's hard to direct RPers there when it is also always closed.

 

At this point, I think it's worth at least opening discussion about possibly maybe thinking about organizing a tertiary RP server. There's not going to be a point where Balmung opens again, at least not during a time when FFXIV is thriving. Server transfers are a good suggestion but also gates out many more potential RPers than it allows in. 

 

As of now, we have had a few people attempt to advertise for the building of RP communities on their servers, but nothing unified:

 

Coeurl

 

Faerie

 

Jenova

 

Lamia

 

Sargatanas

 

The problem is the more spread out people are, the less a RP community can be organized.

These small RP communities are great if you're looking for a linkshell or maybe a few FCs. But if people are hoping for more visible RP like what we see on Balmung, more organization is going to be required.

 

I am glad others are taking initiative to create these but if a full, visible RP server that is comparable to Balmung is the goal here, there needs to be 1. Unified effort and 2. RPC's support to make it happen.

[Warren Castille]

While the intent is noble, I don't think anyone in particular is open to uprooting and attempting to colonize a new world. Be it splitting time, having to deal with an entire potential world of griefers, or at worst leaving the current community to bet on a new one, I don't know how feasible this is. You'd need hundreds of people to mass-exodus in order to make an impact.

 

Godspeed, you brave bastards, but I can only send my well wishes.

[Melphina]

What you need to do is organize currently existing members on these servers to give RP a try, then once people start to notice it on the server and if people aren't griefed out of it, they'll give it a chance. That's the only reason Balmung has flourished is because it's a like-minded community where everyone is ok with everyone RP'ing. Unfortunately this is not the case on other servers (Especially some of the legacy servers, I've noticed that some of them have really nasty people just looking at their forum posts on the official forums.)

 

The problem is getting around that, if someone can get into a long-lasting RP group and also make it a positive experience, others will imitate this. 

 

Start by holding RP events, encourage it, make it rewarding. It only takes one person to really make it worth imitating. If people go "I don't know how to RP" Tell them it's ok, we all begin somewhere, and a lot of people who have never RP'd, could contribute so much just by how good they could become. It's really amazing how someone who has never RP'd can fool people into thinking otherwise. It truly is. 

 

 

Hell people never thought of RP'ing on Halo PC, but by god thanks to clans who made it a happy experience and kept a watchful eye for griefers, along with people who were producing content such as my friend OpsY who made the best RPG maps, it became a possible thing. So for someone to turn a game that was never intended for role playing purposes, and turn it into that, that's saying something.

 

Do I think that people should leave to join the servers? Not at all, each server has a healthy population, they just sit in the endgame places. Getting them to move around will help out everybody, as while you're roleplaying, you're breaking up the monotony of grinding. I think that'll help with the lack of current endgame content I keep reading about. Just break it up with roleplaying, that'll help so much.

[Berrod Armstrong]

Er...don't you mean a tertiary RP server? 

 

/SIDE EYES GILGAMESH NERVOUSLY

 

Good luck with this endeavour though -- wherever you end up, expect it to be flooded with more Berrod alts.

[Faye]

What you need to do is organize currently existing members on these servers to give RP a try, then once people start to notice it on the server and if people aren't griefed out of it, they'll give it a chance. That's the only reason Balmung has flourished is because it's a like-minded community where everyone is ok with everyone RP'ing. Unfortunately this is not the case on other servers (Especially some of the legacy servers, I've noticed that some of them have really nasty people just looking at their forum posts on the official forums.)

 

The problem is getting around that, if someone can get into a long-lasting RP group and also make it a positive experience, others will imitate this. 

 

Start by holding RP events, encourage it, make it rewarding. It only takes one person to really make it worth imitating. If people go "I don't know how to RP" Tell them it's ok, we all begin somewhere, and a lot of people who have never RP'd, could contribute so much just by how good they could become. It's really amazing how someone who has never RP'd can fool people into thinking otherwise. It truly is. 

 

 

Hell people never thought of RP'ing on Halo PC, but by god thanks to clans who made it a happy experience and kept a watchful eye for griefers, along with people who were producing content such as my friend OpsY who made the best RPG maps, it became a possible thing. So for someone to turn a game that was never intended for role playing purposes, and turn it into that, that's saying something.

 

Do I think that people should leave to join the servers? Not at all, each server has a healthy population, they just sit in the endgame places. Getting them to move around will help out everybody, as while you're roleplaying, you're breaking up the monotony of grinding. I think that'll help with the lack of current endgame content I keep reading about. Just break it up with roleplaying, that'll help so much.

 

^^^^^^^^^ You'll have better luck making new RPers than moving existing RPers.

[Gegenji]

Getting the people spread across those five servers all onto this tertiary RP server would likely be the best first step. The simplest (and cheapest, monetarily) method would to have those on those five servers figure out which one of them is... "friendliest" to RPers, I suppose... and then coalesce on it to form a more sizable RP presence. Then it's just a matter of drumming up some attention with events and such, and firmly solidifying its place as the "new RP server."

 

It will definitely take some doing, and some real money spent for those who don't want to make alts to move their character to whichever server is chosen. However, it would definitely be a boon to have one solid option if someone is upset about Balmung and Gilgamesh being forever closed... as opposed to having to pick between five and further diluting the collecting RP "pool" as it were.

[Ignacius]

Yeah, Gilgamesh is the other RP server.  It's a bit harder to get into than other servers, but there's quite a community here and it's easier to get onto than Balmung.  Get in touch with Adolar Stone over here.

 

Run an alt over here if you're looking to see what it's like.  It's a little different than the Balmung crew.

[Melphina]

So far from what I am reading, a lot of the people that don't RP grief RP'er's because it gives them a satisfaction for making fun of people that get a retreat from reality. People in particular are those that spam holy or AoE's in the Quicksand, which I've seen once or twice when I first started playing. This kind of bullying and shaming is what hinders the advancement of roleplay on other servers, and if people could just accept and forget, they would be able to grow substantially on their own without having to move at all.

[Flickering Ember]

I don't have any intention of leaving Balmung. I am quite happy where I am. I definitely would not suggest that folks from the existing RP servers pack up their bags and move. That would be a train wreck.

What I do mean is that FFXIV has a growing playerbase. I definitely feel that there has been some migration from WoW to this game over the past little while. However, only being on the first expansion with Balmung and Gilgamesh having very little room for new RPers, there is very little room to grow.

 

The number of newcomers to FFXIV who have not had a chance to get into Balmung is not a small number of people. What if that sizable portion of RPers entering the game could unify onto one server instead of being spread out over a bunch?

[Warren Castille]

So far from what I am reading, a lot of the people that don't RP grief RP'er's because it gives them a satisfaction for making fun of people that get a retreat from reality. People in particular are those that spam holy or AoE's in the Quicksand, which I've seen once or twice when I first started playing. This kind of bullying and shaming is what hinders the advancement of roleplay on other servers, and if people could just accept and forget, they would be able to grow substantially on their own without having to move at all.

 

It's both more and less complex than that. We're the dorkiest dorks paying money to play a game so we can not play it and instead play make believe in it. There's a strong point to be made that we're playing the game incorrectly.

 

A lot of non-roleplayers just assume the bulk of us are ERPers. Some of them just think we're all awful at PVE because we RP. Some people will troll and grief out of boredom, and not anything truly malevolent.

 

I mean, think about it. We've put a giant "Kick Me" sign on our backs just by being here; There's a public calendar with all of the listed events on it, with dates and times, and it's only because there's so many roleplayers here that we're not all behemoth-trained into nonexistence. I think it's worth mentioning that the social structure of these servers are all very unique, and suddenly trying to rally roleplayers in numbers could very likely be seen as some sort of takeover attempt (which it sort of is - insisting we should be allowed to upset their server because we're a minority is begging for trouble).

 

A community takes time and effort to cultivate. Balmung had griefers for a long while after ARR launched and that was despite it being one of the designated RP beacons. Trying to make a foothold somewhere else now is going to be no easy task.

[Melphina]

In truth it takes persistence for people to take you seriously, as anything would really jeopardize your progress in establishing a community. But no server has the right to demonize RP'er's just because they want to unwind from the mind numbing grind.

 

While I used to grind all the time on FFXI, I had no real opportunities to RP, it was horrible on Ragnarok, and a lot of people were shamed out of roleplay because even though the content was severely easy when we just had to stun lock bosses and shift damage over here and there, we were always made fun of because of our lack of interest in content. Now that FFXI's final update is coming in November, I wonder if it'd be a better place now to RP, because I was trying to hold an RP night at the Marble Bridge in Upper Jeuno, and a group of players from a single linkshell came in and started spamming our chats until we just gave up and left since they kept coming on alts and we kept blacklisting them.

 

Either way none of them play now probably, I may go and give it a chance depending on how November looks

[Ignacius]

So far from what I am reading, a lot of the people that don't RP grief RP'er's because it gives them a satisfaction for making fun of people that get a retreat from reality. People in particular are those that spam holy or AoE's in the Quicksand, which I've seen once or twice when I first started playing. This kind of bullying and shaming is what hinders the advancement of roleplay on other servers, and if people could just accept and forget, they would be able to grow substantially on their own without having to move at all.

 

In a way, it's Square's fault that it becomes a piece of the puzzle.  Since we don't have an official RP server, we have to coexist with people who not only don't like RP, but don't have a way to avoid our chat scroll without blisting us.

 

I mean, if you're on an RP server and trolling, that's one thing.  If you're a non-RPer who, for whatever reason, dislikes having it around, you're surrounded by targets and you can't really escape it.

 

Honestly, it's always worth having an RP server, or an RP phase mechanic, in every game.  Yes, there will be people reporting trolls, but trolls get reported for annoying everyone, not just RPers.  You just get a lot more trolls without one because there are so many people for whom RP was not a part of the package they signed up for on that server.

 

No excuses for ruining people's fun, but it's not like a chunk of it isn't avoidable if Square would just designate an RP server (or, more realistically, just do away with servers and institute an RP phase mechanic on a universal phased server).

[Warren Castille]

When was stunlocking ever a viable strategy for anything except DL zerging?

 

If the plan isn't to exodus elsewhere and instead just start alts, I have to wonder if that's a much different situation. You'd still need to be sinking hours and hours into a different location. I think the biggest challenge would be trying to make new roleplayers aware there's RP to be had on Beacon Target #3. They couldn't know until they got into the game and started looking, and even if they find this website with some directions, that'll only help them start over.

[Gegenji]

I think the biggest challenge would be trying to make new roleplayers aware there's RP to be had on Beacon Target #3.

 

I still think the first step would be collectively designating that Beacon Target #3, though. That way we can say the "Big Three" RP servers are Balmung, Gilgamesh, and... let's say, for the sake of argument, Faerie. It's not much improvement, but it'd centralize the new RPers (and possibly attract some migrants from other servers) a lot more than just having the Big Two and then some possible RP scattered across the four winds.

[Flickering Ember]

When was stunlocking ever a viable strategy for anything except DL zerging?

 

If the plan isn't to exodus elsewhere and instead just start alts, I have to wonder if that's a much different situation. You'd still need to be sinking hours and hours into a different location. I think the biggest challenge would be trying to make new roleplayers aware there's RP to be had on Beacon Target #3. They couldn't know until they got into the game and started looking, and even if they find this website with some directions, that'll only help them start over.

 

There's no "plan" currently. I just wanted to open discussion on this. I'm not planning on organizing anything. This is basically a continuation of a discussion from another thread: http://www.ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=12737&page=4

The OP asked I move it to another thread and I finally got around to doing so.

 

I guess I don't imagine such an event as being a mass-exodus of alts, but rather, a gathering of non-Balmung/non-Gilgamesh that are spread out, combined to make one, more consistently active server with the benefit of their total numbers.

[Maril]

We're quite happy and settled on Balmung. I've been on a small RP server before in a different game, and though it has it's charms, it also has some drawbacks that I wouldn't want to see anywhere else. We're (kinrp) not planning on moving anywhere, despite being EU people on an NA server, and I don't know of anyone save a handful that are actually contemplating moving to an EU server once the physical servers gets moved to Europa. 

Wish you the best of luck with trying, though it's going to be an uphill battle. Honestly as I see it, Balmung and even Gilgamesh has something unique when it comes to mixing rpers from different timezones and that, which really makes the communities feel enormous, even if Gilgamesh has a smaller amount of people. 

 

Griefing will always exist everywhere. I haven't experienced any on Balmung as of recent, but I think that may be related to my pastures moving more into the housing zones. About a year ago or so it was pretty bad. I've also heard of recent griefing. But in general the people on Balmung seem more tolerant these days, and I've even talked with people who came to Balmung because they knew the RP'ers were there - Not because they wanted to RP themselves, but because RP'ers can contribute to a more mature/calm/awesome community on a server overall.

[Flickering Ember]

I think the biggest challenge would be trying to make new roleplayers aware there's RP to be had on Beacon Target #3.

 

I still think the first step would be collectively designating that Beacon Target #3, though. That way we can say the "Big Three" RP servers are Balmung, Gilgamesh, and... let's say, for the sake of argument, Faerie. It's not much improvement, but it'd centralize the new RPers (and possibly attract some migrants from other servers) a lot more than just having the Big Two and then some possible RP scattered across the four winds.

 

This is basically what I am getting at.

[Kage]

Is it our place, on another server, to "decide" on another server though?

 

 

Kage bad analogy time. It feels a lot like the United States deciding where a country's refugees should go to. [Note: The US is not putting up the US in that list.]

 

Without most of us having alts on a variety of other servers, especially those that are in the pool of servers who are attempting to cultivate a culture of RPers... what right do we have to decide that one is better than the other?

 

Should this not be a conversation mainly among those on said servers? On that note, how would it be taken by that server if there was an exodus to that chosen server? What if they view it poorly?

[Virella]

In truth, if there was an EU 'roleplaying' server, I would had gone there instead of Balmung. In truth, the game is so cheap to pick up now, at least ARR is, and if people do get hooked, dishing out a bit more to transfer isn't that bad in all honesty. I know some people are disappointed they can't make characters on Balmung right away, and I completely agree with that because we are probably missing out on a lot of potentional roleplayers that way. But I doubt having a third server is going to solve a thing, unless there is indeed a mass exodus towards the new one.

 

Starting up a new community is a hard task, and maintaining it even more so.

[ZoktaiKhor]

as much as I would love to scream "BEHEMOTH IS A PERFECT CHOICE." It's jsut as full as gilgamesh if not balmung. We have 3 Heavy rp groups that would more then welcome the settlers but we have sizing issues as well. However if a max exodus is done My group and my linkshell will be happy to educate you o nthe RP free companies and evnets that are held on behemoth.

[Flickering Ember]

Is it our place, on another server, to "decide" on another server though?

 

 

Kage bad analogy time. It feels a lot like the United States deciding where a country's refugees should go to. [Note: The US is not putting up the US in that list.]

 

Without most of us having alts on a variety of other servers, especially those that are in the pool of servers who are attempting to cultivate a culture of RPers... what right do we have to decide that one is better than the other?

 

Should this not be a conversation mainly among those on said servers? On that note, how would it be taken by that server if there was an exodus to that chosen server? What if they view it poorly?

 

Why even have Balmung and Gilgamesh then? The RPC had to decide to choose these servers for their respective RP communities. They did not foresee the possibility of these servers not being enough for the entirety of the FFXIV RP fanbase. There has to be a server that is 'decided' upon in the absence of designated RP servers. 

 

 

The RP community is not big enough to where this becomes a matter given up to each individual server. If your aim as a RPer does not require populated, open world RP and only really look for it among one or two RP FCs and/or linkshells then there is nothing to discuss on that end. If your aim is to start up a new RP community due to Balmung and Gilgamesh being locked, I feel this is a worthwhile piece of discussion.

 

 

Am I the only poster who has been noticing a sizeable portion of FFXIV newcomers who want to RP but can't get onto Bal/Gilg?

 

It is also relevant to note that the RPC is the first match on 'ffxiv rp' in google. If you want to RP in FFXIV but don't know where, consider that this is the place where people with that interest are going to end up at, at some point.

[Manari]

I keep seeing people responding saying "I'm happy where I am!" or "Good luck if you want to leave". I'm pretty sure that's missing the entire point of the thread. I don't think the OP is trying to get anyone to uproot and move everything some place else.

 

I want to get some friends into RP, and possibly play some new characters with alts I haven't made yet. All of this is very difficult on Balmung since it's so full. If we had another, less populated, server which was designated for RP, then we could point new people there and have fun with alts and new RP over there without telling new people "Either get up at 5am and hope or pay money to transfer".

[Kage]

Is it our place, on another server, to "decide" on another server though?

 

 

Kage bad analogy time. It feels a lot like the United States deciding where a country's refugees should go to. [Note: The US is not putting up the US in that list.]

 

Without most of us having alts on a variety of other servers, especially those that are in the pool of servers who are attempting to cultivate a culture of RPers... what right do we have to decide that one is better than the other?

 

Should this not be a conversation mainly among those on said servers? On that note, how would it be taken by that server if there was an exodus to that chosen server? What if they view it poorly?

 

Why even have Balmung and Gilgamesh then? The RPC had to decide to choose these servers for their respective RP communities. They did not foresee the possibility of these servers not being enough for the entirety of the FFXIV RP fanbase. There has to be a server that is 'decided' upon in the absence of designated RP servers. 

 

 

The RP community is not big enough to where this becomes a matter given up to each individual server. If your aim as a RPer does not require populated, open world RP and only really look for it among one or two RP FCs and/or linkshells then there is nothing to discuss on that end. If your aim is to start up a new RP community due to Balmung and Gilgamesh being locked, I feel this is a worthwhile piece of discussion.

 

 

Am I the only poster who has been noticing a sizeable portion of FFXIV newcomers who want to RP but can't get onto Bal/Gilg?

You haven't addressed my point that you are on another server and are starting a discussion for the other people to start deciding where to go. You're in a big city that has closed its gates and are now telling 4 small towns that perhaps 3 of them should go to 1 and start growing another city. Or you're telling those 4 small towns to go and make a city.

 

They might even be upset that you want to choose for them where to go. Is that not the conversation that they should be having? Of everyone who has posted here I think I can only count Zachary as not having a character on Balmung or the "other" Gilgamesh that is getting full as well. How many posters in the RPC will have even had alts on the other communities?

 

The other factor is that the RPC is a vocal amount of roleplayers on Balmung with a small size of Gilgamesh RPers and those trying to find ways to connect on servers that aren't quite open. You're now also disregarding the amount of roleplayers that may be on other worlds that are primarily on Tumblr and other venues. As it's mentioned a few times, the RPC doesn't even represent the majority of RPers on Balmung. In fact, a lot of people actively avoid it.

 

Will you pay for those communities' transfers? How would you choose a server? Based on how much character creation is closed? While Balmung is the worst off, others are starting to have the point where non-prime time hours are the only times when you can get a character in. Just choose the lowest population to avoid character creation issues?

 

If I had any more friends that were able to or wanted to play FFXIV, I would want them to play with me and hence pay for their transfer. I know that getting into Balmung is difficult. I've given people money to transfer to Balmung because of this. I am a greedy selfish person and I want to both a) Play with my friends and b) Roleplay with my friends. In order to do so, I put my money where my mouth and desires are.

[Ignacius]

Can I pipe dream?

 

I know it won't likely happen, but it'd be nice if Square kicked off a new server, and you could only start/transfer there if you wrote a short essay about your character.  People would have to go far out of their way to grief there, the RPers could be transferred for free to a new server where the population would be just them.  Trolling could get someone returned to the server they were on without it being a big fuss.

 

Just a dream, but we can always try to raise a petition or a stink about it.  Seems better than designating yet another unofficial RP server where we'll have the same problems.

[Melkire]

"Let's talk about organizing a tertiary RP server."

 

Short answer: no.

 

Long answer:

[Admin Hardhat]

 

I feel a need to both expound upon some RPC history and make some sort of pseudo-official comment on this matter.

 

Once upon a time, the first wave of members on this site had to decide on a server to collectively jump on, for the sake of creating a large enough community of roleplayers that they could depend upon when it came to reaching out and engaging in cooperative writing. That server turned out to be, for whatever reason, Balmung.

 

Some time later, a few users started tossing around the idea of a secondary or alternate or "sister" unofficial RP server. The name that happened to get tossed out, again for whatever reason, was Gilgamesh. The suggestion was taken seriously and a secondary community began to grow. What quickly became evident, however, was that there had grown a schism and a degree of bad blood between the userbases of Balmung and Gilgamesh. Accusations of "elitism," "second class citizenry," "bias," and the like got thrown around, and there was fault to be found on both sides of the line. The long and short of it is that it got ugly. Even as recently as this year, the legacy of that divide still occasionally erupts in short bursts of drama and bad feelings.

 

That said... after two years, we've finally reached a place where both communities are on relatively good terms, we have sister sites serving different populations, the boards here on RPC are now geared more towards inclusion of all servers rather than a focus on Balmung and Gilgamesh, and despite a staggering disparity in populations here on RPC that favors a much larger Balmung community, folks are growing more and more open to working with new roleplayers and their desires to start or get into smaller RP communities on smaller servers, rather than defaulting immediately to "oh well most RP is on Balmung so you should transfer here" (which, as it happens, only goes to fuel that bad blood between server communities).

 

It seems to me both unwise and self-righteous in the extreme to suggest that we need to organize a third unofficial RP server when the better course of action is to support smaller RP communities on other servers by not only encouraging their growth but providing a place for them to come together and organize themselves. There's a wonderful Jenova RP Community thread that Ember linked, for example. It cropped up a while back here on RPC, and it's more or less roleplayers using this site to reach out and connect with one another, which I see as an ideal. There's a burgeoning population there, and they're taking care of themselves. They are more than welcome to continue using this site and its boards and resources (we want them here! they're brothers and sisters with the same interests!) .

 

An organized effort at designating a tertiary server, in my opinion, constitutes little more than rocking-the-boat. I apologize if that seems offensive, but consider: RP communities are already growing on other servers, energy is better spent supporting those communities as they grow, splitting existing communities onto a different sever will inevitably result in grief, it is not the fault or the responsibility of any roleplay community to answer for the difficulties of getting on Balmung and/or Gilgamesh, the onus is on Square-Enix to deal with impacted servers, and the "difficulties" of getting on Bal/Gilg have more to do with creating alts than new roleplayers who can either try for the fabled few-minutes-long post-maint window or else pay for a guaranteed transfer.

 

Artificial stimulation of the communities on Coeurl, Faerie, Jenova, Lamia, Sargantas, etc. might seem prudent... but the best thing we can do is go, "hey, there's this site known as the RPC, they've got lots of tools and space for folks to get organized or at least get a start on doing so!"

 

[/Admin Hardhat]

 

I'll leave this discussion open, because there's some value in going over the particulars... but the moment it starts getting nasty, it's getting closed.