Let's talk about organizing a tertiary RP server

[Manari]

As someone who lived through the above story first hand, I just felt the need to clarify that it was the introduction of the "Legacy" status that FFXIV 1.0 players received that caused the initial rift between RPers. In the months between 1.0 servers closing and 2.0 going live with open betas, the RPC here was bursting with new activity and new RPers eager to try 2.0 RP out. Most of the new players were eager to jump on Balmung and RP with the current RPers, but then SE announced all the ways that Legacy characters were going to keep some of their gil, get a few random items, keep all their old gear, etc. And that scared new players. They didn't want to be on a server with an economy already in place, so that's when a movement for a 2nd RP server got started.

 

Yes, it turned into a really bitter and bloody battle due to the way each side felt about the split. Balmung didn't want the RP community fractured apart, and Gilgamesh didn't want to play on a server with so many people already level 50.

 

 

 

The only reason I mention all of that up there is because I don't feel like this is even CLOSE to the same situation at ALL. So I'm not sure I agree with just shooting it down because the Balmung/Gilgamesh arguments were a dark time on the RPC.

[Melkire]

As someone who lived through the above story first hand, I just felt the need to clarify that it was the introduction of the "Legacy" status that FFXIV 1.0 players received that caused the initial rift between RPers. In the months between 1.0 servers closing and 2.0 going live with open betas, the RPC here was bursting with new activity and new RPers eager to try 2.0 RP out. Most of the new players were eager to jump on Balmung and RP with the current RPers, but then SE announced all the ways that Legacy characters were going to keep some of their gil, get a few random items, keep all their old gear, etc. And that scared new players. They didn't want to be on a server with an economy already in place, so that's when a movement for a 2nd RP server got started.

 

Yes, it turned into a really bitter and bloody battle due to the way each side felt about the split. Balmung didn't want the RP community fractured apart, and Gilgamesh didn't want to play on a server with so many people already level 50.

 

 

 

The only reason I mention all of that up there is because I don't feel like this is even CLOSE to the same situation at ALL. So I'm not sure I agree with just shooting it down because the Balmung/Gilgamesh arguments were a dark time on the RPC.

 

Bear in mind that I don't think a third large unoffficial RP server is a bad thing. It'd be good to have.

 

What would be bad is trying to force that designation on a server pop / community from the outside. There's also the trouble that designating unofficial servers has an unfortunate tendency to drain smaller servers of RP pop. It's creating a large community at the potential expense of smaller ones.

[Caspar]

I'm not sure. Isn't that already happening with Balmung? I question whether a third server would really make things that much worse.

[Unnamed Mercenary]

The only reason I mention all of that up there is because I don't feel like this is even CLOSE to the same situation at ALL.  So I'm not sure I agree with just shooting it down because the Balmung/Gilgamesh arguments were a dark time on the RPC.

 

I had this large post mostly written that was going to basically be what Melkire typed as an admin. But to make my point of view (as a user) known, I see it as a very similar issue. A Fragmented community will have a more difficult time sustaining itself. Even if we were to have a new server brought in on the mix, to what extent would people actively work to keep it alive when they know there's already an established community they get pay to get in on?

 

The trampled patches of grass on Balmung and Gilgamesh could be seen as "more stable", "more enticing" or just "more RPer friendly" that the vast wilderness and wide-open plains of some other server. If given the choice, I think people would probably keep trying to drive on a paved road or dirt road than to drive through an open field/sand dunes/forest.

[Melkire]

I'm not sure. Isn't that already happening with Balmung? I question whether a third server would really make things that much worse.

 

The flip side of this is that the rise of a tertiary RP server has the potential to fragment other large populations such as Balmung and Gilgamesh. I don't particularly see a problem with this happening to the former (we're large and we could take the hit to pop without losing too much roleplay presence/availability) but Gilgamesh is smaller in comparison. I wouldn't want to detract from their growth, but that's just me. I'm hoping others won't want to, either.

[Melphina]

When was stunlocking ever a viable strategy for anything except DL zerging?

 

If the plan isn't to exodus elsewhere and instead just start alts, I have to wonder if that's a much different situation. You'd still need to be sinking hours and hours into a different location. I think the biggest challenge would be trying to make new roleplayers aware there's RP to be had on Beacon Target #3. They couldn't know until they got into the game and started looking, and even if they find this website with some directions, that'll only help them start over.

Sorry for the late reply, but Delve and and most other 18 man content involved scholars stun locking the bosses.

[Caspar]

I'm not sure. Isn't that already happening with Balmung? I question whether a third server would really make things that much worse.

 

The flip side of this is that the rise of a tertiary RP server has the potential to fragment other large populations such as Balmung and Gilgamesh. I don't particularly see a problem with this happening to the former (we're large and we could take the hit to pop without losing too much roleplay presence/availability) but Gilgamesh is smaller in comparison. I wouldn't want to detract from their growth, but that's just me. I'm hoping others won't want to, either.

It's certainly not impossible, but the impression I get here is that at worst a lot of players in this thread either would only offer input or an alt, not move servers. It would suck if Gil lost players, but its hard to imagine they'd be much different in outlook than the Bal players who post in here. I imagine at least that another server would grow very gradually as a result of encouraging new rpers through the forum to try it out, rather than sapping players from Bal or Gil, which Ember didn't really suggest as an option anyway.

 

Obviously that bodes poorly for the chances of a third server actually thriving, but it seems pretty harmless in comparison to the scenario you described before. At least to me anyway.

[Melkire]

It's certainly not impossible, but the impression I get here is that at worst a lot of players in this thread either would only offer input or an alt, not move servers. It would suck if Gil lost players, but its hard to imagine they'd be much different in outlook than the Bal players who post in here. I imagine at least that another server would grow very gradually as a result of encouraging new rpers through the forum to try it out, rather than sapping players from Bal or Gil, which Ember didn't really suggest as an option anyway.

 

Obviously that bodes poorly for the chances of a third server actually thriving, but it seems pretty harmless in comparison to the scenario you described before. At least to me anyway.

 

The bolded is where the problem lies. I sincerely doubt that most people on board with such an effort would actually move on a lasting, permanent basis. So the question is: who is this thread for? Are a bunch of us willing and wanting to pick up and transfer to a less populated server? If the answer is no, then... who is the onus on for a such a thing?

[Unnamed Mercenary]

Obviously that bodes poorly for the chances of a third server actually thriving, but it seems pretty harmless in comparison to the scenario you described before. At least to me anyway.

 

The above is basically my worry. And it still wouldn't solve "I want to RP with my friends." It would definitely solve "I want to RP" and over time, it could very well solve "I want to have Open-World RP", which we know is not always viable on other servers.

 

I would love to be able to tell people "hey, you don't need to jump through these hoops to get RP on _____ server", but the situation I see when people visit the RPC is that they come to the site with a preconceived notion that RP can only be found on Balmung or Gilgamesh, which isn't the case.

[Caspar]

Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought the idea was to touch base with players on smaller pop servers and see if ls or FC there would be interested in a more organized presence on RPC, to direct new players who make "why can't I get into Balmung" threads into a new place. It seems like there are a lot of new players who don't necessarily have those engagements to push them to register with their friends.

[Manari]

 

 

The trampled patches of grass on Balmung and Gilgamesh could be seen as "more stable", "more enticing" or just "more RPer friendly" that the vast wilderness and wide-open plains of some other server. If given the choice, I think people would probably keep trying to drive on a paved road or dirt road than to drive through an open field/sand dunes/forest.

 

 

Remember that the entire reason this thread was originally created was because it is extremely difficult to successfully get into either Balmung or Gilgamesh as they are two of the highest population servers and the only 2 "unofficial RP" servers.  I feel like everyone still is trying to argue why it's better to stay on Balmung.  Of course it's better to stay on Balmung or Gilgamesh.  They have large, established RP communities and no one is arguing that.  

 

This thread was created because new RPers can not get into them.  Not without paying real money for a server transfer anyway.

[Warren Castille]

It's possible to get into Greg/Balmung with server transfers. I believe Ember's intentions were the absolute best thing, but the thread still boils down to "Where do we, Balmung and Greg and Others, tell random newbies to RP?"

 

It's not a great position. When "we" settled on Balmung ages ago, we were deciding for ourselves. This is declaring where others should go, and it's awkward.

[Lydia Lightfoot]

This thread was created because new RPers can not get into them.  Not without paying real money for a server transfer anyway.

 

This isn't Rift. You can't download it for free and play it for free by earning enough in-game currency to buy doodads other people have paid real money for which you can then use to get cash shop credits without paying money. This is a pay-to-play game. You pay to buy the game. You pay to buy the expansions. You are required to pay a monthly subscription.

 

Many games charge $20-25 for a server transfer for a single character. Square Enix charges $18 for up to 8 characters at once to transfer to another server. This means that the price for a server transfer per character is as much as $18 or as little as $2.25.

 

More to the point, if someone's financial situation is so tight that they can't afford to transfer, they probably also have better uses for their money than the monthly subscription fee, too. That's the harsh truth of it. 

 

Does it suck that the servers are closed and it's hard to get onto them without a transfer? Sure. On the other hand, when I started out on Siren during my 14-day trial, I received a tell from a gold seller approximately once every 5 minutes. Different alts for the same companies. I'd blacklist, and 5 minutes later here's the new alt with the same message. Endlessly. I've had exactly zero of that on Balmung. Seriously, not even one. That by itself is a side effect of the closed nature of Balmung for which I am thankful that I paid $18.

[Unnamed Mercenary]

The trampled patches of grass on Balmung and Gilgamesh could be seen as "more stable", "more enticing" or just "more RPer friendly" that the vast wilderness and wide-open plains of some other server. If given the choice, I think people would probably keep trying to drive on a paved road or dirt road than to drive through an open field/sand dunes/forest.

 

 

Remember that the entire reason this thread was originally created was because it is extremely difficult to successfully get into either Balmung or Gilgamesh as they are two of the highest population servers and the only 2 "unofficial RP" servers.  I feel like everyone still is trying to argue why it's better to stay on Balmung.  Of course it's better to stay on Balmung or Gilgamesh.  They have large, established RP communities and no one is arguing that.  

 

This thread was created because new RPers can not get into them.  Not without paying real money for a server transfer anyway.

 

But here's that nagging issue. A flock of new RPers on some new 3rd "unofficial" server isn't going to fix anything. The same people trying to make characters on Balmung and Gilgamesh and every. other. server. will still have issues doing so. The people proposing the idea to designate a 3rd server seemingly have no intention of building a community there.

 

A new city can be built with the nicest of buildings, roads and houses. It can have buildings for all sorts of offices and shops. It doesn't really make much of a city if people don't move in though. What keeps being proposed in this thread is that we need a new city (a 3rd "unofficial RP server"). I haven't gotten the impression that anyone here really has the intention of doing that. If there's no appeal of RPing on a 3rd server because nobody is there, why would someone RP on it?

 

 

It's possible to get into Greg/Balmung with server transfers. I believe Ember's intentions were the absolute best thing, but the thread still boils down to "Where do we, Balmung and Greg and Others, tell random newbies to RP?"

 

It's not a great position. When "we" settled on Balmung ages ago, we were deciding for ourselves. This is declaring where others should go, and it's awkward.

 

THANK YOU. Not to mention that building a community based off designating some other server could not sustain a community there. If one filled a room with [possibly] antisocial people who don't know each other, could we really expect them to magically break out of their shells and start talking to people?

 

 

The problem is the more spread out people are, the less a RP community can be organized.

These small RP communities are great if you're looking for a linkshell or maybe a few FCs. But if people are hoping for more visible RP like what we see on Balmung, more organization is going to be required.

 

I am glad others are taking initiative to create these but if a full, visible RP server that is comparable to Balmung is the goal here, there needs to be 1. Unified effort and 2. RPC's support to make it happen.

 

I'm going to bold part of the OP post for emphasis.

 

1. We can't make that happen. 

 

2. This is problematic for two different reasons.

• 2-1) The RPC is here for -all servers-. All of them. It just happens that a vast majority is on Balming, and the part that isn't is mostly on Gilgamesh.
  
• 2-2) How can we seemingly make an effort to make such a 3rd server work when nobody is looking to RP outside their current server? Isn't that a contradiction? This isn't to called Flickering Ember out on it. Like Warren said, I believe the intention to be great. It's really something that should happen! ...but at the same time, I myself have no motivation to try leveling up a brand new character on some other server just for the sake of having an alt to RP as when I can't even keep up on Balmung. I can't even handle having an alt on Balmung!
  

[Nero]

This is a pretty pointless discussion, for a couple of reasons.

 

People who want to roleplay in the most active community will find a way to roleplay in the most active community. Trying to guide people "away" from Balmung and Gilgamesh is like planting a series of neon arrows pointing away from a casino that says "GAMBLING IN THIS DIRECTION", or putting down signs on Interstate 78 that says "OTHER MANHATTAN BEHIND YOU". These are central hubs, and nothing short of the game shutting down or Yoshida spilling his morning coffee in the server room is going to change that.

 

While it makes sense on paper to sympathize with the new people who'll have to pay for transfers, Square Enix's server capacity issues aren't up to roleplayers to solve. I don't speak for anyone, but I, at least, am not here to save other people money to get them something that they're not going to get anyway. If they want an active roleplaying community in FFXIV, they'll go to Balmung first. Period. Nobody who's new to the scene really wants to be lumped onto a "tertiary" server. Nobody who's new to the scene wants to be on Gilgamesh, either, not unless they've got friends there. They want to be on Balmung. It's the most active. It's the largest. It has the biggest community of like-minded people. And if they're okay with settling for less than Balmung? Then it doesn't matter. They'll go to Gilgamesh. Or they'll look on Jenova. If all they want is to RP, and not RP on the server with the most RPers, they'll find a way. It's not up to us to cater to them. And hey, that's a good thing. If enough roleplayers don't care about being on the largest server, then they'll propagate their own presence over time to turn into other "unofficial" RP servers.

 

Putting a sign and some cheap slot machines inside a Qwik Stop doesn't turn it into a desireable casino. Painting the buildings to look like Wall Street isn't going to turn Staten Island into Manhattan.

 

Does it suck to have to write off new RPers if they want to play in-game but can't get the character creation window, or don't want to pay the $18 transfer for whatever reason? Yeah, it sucks. New people are, typically, always welcome. I'm not about to cater to them with a subpar experience though. I'm not about to shuffle them off to Brynhildr and say "There's no space, but here's your RP playpen!" And I'm not about to try to convince other people to shuffle off to Brynhildr to try to convince that new person into staying.

 

And yeah, it sucks that people have to pay money to get onto Balmung to do the hobby they want: RPing in FFXIV.

 

That's Square Enix's issue with server capacities, though. And character restrictions. Ideally one would be allowed to "queue" a character creation, limit one per account per world. Ideally.

 

I don't think roleplayers should be in the business of trying to save other people money. If they want in, they'll transfer. Does it suck? Yeah. Is it at all the RP community's problem? I don't think so. We're just here to roleplay.

[Faye]

With tl;dr added and the idea clarified some--I think making a third "designated" RP server for the folks who can't make it into Balmung or Gilgamesh and don't have the patience to keep trying is a great idea, but if it was going to happen, I think it would have happened already. We can sit here and say "What a great idea!" all day long, but it won't effect most of us here as we're comfortably on Balmung/Gilgamesh, so we're probably not going to be the people to organize it. It's the folks who are locked out of Balmung and Gilgamesh who will have to make it happen, and so far I haven't seen any great strides toward that goal.

[ShoggMommy]

Well the concern of it is this as well; the list of 5 or so servers in OP's thread... Why are people going to up and leave those (not Gilga/Balmung players) as well to re-home on another server? They're likely going to be happy with whatever they're on as it is. And not just that, why should they have to relocate for other people and pay an 18$ a month themselves? Honestly I'd have to echo Nero and Melk's concerns with it. I was here during the mess of previous server things and every other thread from that time which is made; and every one of them gets angry and upset and ultimately gets locked.

[Flickering Ember]

Hmm. There are some good points in here that I had not considered, particularly RPC's history. I apologize for being insensitive. 

 

 

With admin input being a definite no for this, and some good points in that direction besides, I think there is a lot more we could be doing to help new RP communities spring up. I do feel that aid is needed in that situation, even if many of you feel that it 'isn't up to us.' Many of the folks who have created the communities in my OP are new to RPC or were at the time. It's a high expectation to expect someone who is completely new to the site, and the RPC community, to instantly be able to work up the courage to be as assertive as the leadership or well-established members here, and by doing so, organize a community in the way this thread is implying. It is easy to worry about over stepping your boundaries when you just registered.

 

If I may offer a suggestion, I believe this thread is a bit outdated: http://www.ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=2632

 

The title is ambiguous. If I was googling 'ffxiv rp' and didn't really care to join RPC, how would I know to look here for the server information? 

 

Next, the content of this thread could be improved by removing 'Other Servers' and adding the names of the servers I listed in my OP with links to their linkshells. In order to promote the goal that RPC is a space for all RP servers, not just Balmung, the word 'Other' should just be left out entirely.

[Kage]

Here are the two things we know of in terms of "needs":

 

a) A few of these RPers go to other communities because they give up on joining Balmung or Gilgamesh or they do not want to leave their own community already.

 

b) They can't seem to get in touch with each other. The RP is not very public or "loud".

 

 

In terms of B, how do you suggest we help them other than giving them the links and contacts of the beginners who attempted to start the foundations. The site already allows all servers' peoples to post their linkshells and connections threads (and have tags!!!??). What is it that you propose that older members do?

 

We don't know what their needs are. We don't know what type of RP is prolific on the other servers. We don't know their hotspots.

 

I think it is a noble effort but I think we are all better served if they express their needs and questions so we can help them.

[Flickering Ember]

Sometimes just offering to help is helping. There's not really a specific thread that tackles this specific issue. The closest we get is the thread I linked. Perhaps if there was a thread or a guide that better called attention to the fact that there are folks from rising RP communities who would like to become more involved. 

 

On one hand there's the mindset that getting involved is rude and controlling. 

 

On the other hand, it also makes the RPC feel very 'hands off'. Have fun shouldering the responsibility all by yourself/selves. 

 

I wonder if we could meet in the middle?

[Cassandra]

As a recent transfer myself, I echo the overall sentiment of Nero’s post. What garnered my initial interest with the game was my friend selling Balmung’s activity. If I were going to become a part of the roleplaying community in a MMO, I wanted it to be where roleplay is fairly ubiquitous. Being advised to a tertiary alternative wouldn’t be near as appealing since its smaller size makes establishing RP partners that much more difficult. I also feel it may have the unfortunate – and likely unintentional – effect of making Balmung seem like a clique. While having to pay $18USD isn’t ideal (especially because the Canadian dollar is trash /grumble), the decision ultimately lies in whether you feel the value outweighs the cost. I viewed the potential to RP on the server most dedicated for it as a worthwhile enough investment. Those who feel the same will eventually transfer over, otherwise they are likely quite happy wherever they are.

 

Going over and declaring a new server as RP world #3 won’t make it happen. Rather, as has already been said, we’re better off making an inviting venue where any RPer can come and make connections, which is what RPC does. Put another way, fuel the fires that already exist on those serves in lieu of starting an inferno.

 

What should happen is Square either decide on an official server for Roleplayers, or allow for an even larger population. That said, I find it hard they’ll see the enticement when the current divide makes them money.

 

Sometimes just offering to help is helping. There's not really a specific thread that tackles this specific issue. The closest we get is the thread I linked. Perhaps if there was a thread or a guide that better called attention to the fact that there are folks from rising RP communities who would like to become more involved. 

 

On one hand there's the mindset that getting involved is rude and controlling. 

 

On the other hand, it also makes the RPC feel very 'hands off'. Have fun shouldering the responsibility all by yourself/selves. 

 

I wonder if we could meet in the middle?

 

Like I said above, I think the most we can truly offer as a middle ground would be what the RPC already accomplishes: a forum of like-minded individuals. It's up to those people to determine whether they want to find RP elsewhere or pay to transfer into Balmung. Even if a tertiary option were created. I suspect a similar problem would linger as most people want to be apart of the "popular crowd."

[Ignacius]

Again, and I'm not trying to shoot anyone down here, but I generally assume most people make their characters and are playing for at least a short while before trying to find an organized RP community.  I mean, I don't want to put an arrow in the heart of the RPC here, but I imagine most people have a server already by the time they find this place.

 

They're either willing to reroll or server transfer, or they're usually already invested in the server they're on.  At least that's been my impression; most of the new player posts aren't players without a character yet.

 

So this may all be academic.  If people really want to pay to transfer anywhere or reroll somewhere, I honestly doubt it will be a flood to a tertiary server.  Either people will transfer to Balmung or Gilgamesh, they'll sit on an off-hour day and slide in, or they're not going anywhere anyway.  This ONLY works if there are a lot of new players coming here to the RPC specifically before they put a few weeks or months on their characters on another server.

[Desitjant]

I can't see any concrete steps one could take aside before (attempting) to get a sense of the number of RPers on the 5 worlds listed. If it turns out that any of them had a significant margin over the others, migration to that world would probably have the best results one could hope for.